Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."
- Thread starter Persephone
- Start date
- OT
To tangentially bring pokemon to the thread topic, I just always think back to the early reactions of the alola starters first leaking. Primarina was so detested for being too feminine, and dozens of fan made evolutions got made of an alternate male evolution line. Then Brionne got revealed, and the hope was shattered for the people that had to deal with the fact that Primarina was it. Also in reverse to an extent with people making fem evolution designs for Litten because Incineroar can't possibly be female.
Side note, I love both....especially Primarina.
Side note, I love both....especially Primarina.
Primarina is the best, easily my favorite water starter. I really love that they made her evolved form feminine and she sings. 🩵
The mermaid design and fairy typing always screamed trans girl, too.
The mermaid design and fairy typing always screamed trans girl, too.
I haven't really played much Pokemon since I was a kid.. but I guess I always really liked Squirtle and the evolutions.Since this has become a pokémon thread now, my favourite pokémon is Ludicolo
One thing I appreciate about Pokemon is that the males and females look exactly the same (with a few exceptions).
Even though some of the female versions are very dumb, like Wobbuffet and Frillish/Jellicent
By looking at Bulbapedia it appears they basically stopped with the gender differences that are small in Gen 5 and onwards, the only Pokemon that have changes are now ones that are very easy to notice, which is a shame as i liked the very small variations as it made them more close to real animals
Last edited:
I muted it on my social media feeds just like when any kind of annoying game culture war thing happens, while still expecting some to get past the filters as usual, and...they just didn't. It was like a few days at most, the second the chuds moved on and stopped boosting it to high heavens I haven't seen a lick of it.
Kinda shows how manufactured it all was, lol. No one actually gave as much of a shit as they wanted to make everyone out to be.
There's a lot of weird gender stuff with Pokémon, I think it all started in Gen IV and they made it retroactive. Minus obvious stuff like the Nidos in earlier gens.
Gender Game Mechanics - Serebii.net
Full details and lists on all details about Pokémon Genders and their affects on Pokémon
Yes, it became a thing in Gen 5 and later, some examples like i said there's Frillish and it's evolution Jellicent
Then Gen 6 added Meowstic that as a first has different moves depending on if they are male or female
And then Indeedee from Gen 8 that goes even beyond by now having different stats and abilities apart from the moves
There's a lot of weird gender stuff with Pokémon, I think it all started in Gen IV and they made it retroactive. Minus obvious stuff like the Nidos in earlier gens.
Gender Game Mechanics - Serebii.net
Full details and lists on all details about Pokémon Genders and their affects on Pokémonwww.serebii.net
The weird thing is that despite introducing and adding the gender differences to like 20 Pokemon per generation they basically stopped and now only do around 1-3 per gen and the differences are basically in your face
Yeah, I really like some of the subtle ones (again, Eevee), but the new ones tend to be around that level of that one graphic about sexual dimorphism in fantasy player character races.
Since we're all on a Pokemon kick...I'll share a piece of artwork that I had commissioned by an artist friend of a Pokemon OC that I wanted made with her pokemon for myself recently.
Ooo I love it.
The personal/character fashion is such a nice cherry on top
Gender differences is one of those things you can tell was always in the back of their minds as part of the big picture of the series and just didn't tackle for time and technical reasons, and then when they finally did decide they could go for it... still didn't have enough time to do all that much additional sprite work and almost all of the differences wound up being tiny little edits that are hard to notice, so they promptly gave up on anything that wasn't super obvious. I think they've actually kept up with all the differences they did implement over time, though?
Oh god, I vaguely remember all this now that you mention it. Primarina's gorgeous and didn't deserve that flak.
The gendering of Pikachu and Eevee is something that I did kind of notice in more recent games, but I can't say I've thought much about it besides just seeing it. Now I'm just thinking about how weird and unnecessary it is.
Anyway, I must like Pokemon that are a little spiky and a little cute, because my favourites are Jolteon, Gengar and Typhlosion.
Anyway, I must like Pokemon that are a little spiky and a little cute, because my favourites are Jolteon, Gengar and Typhlosion.
I don't mind it, since it adds a bit of character to them, but it would be neat to have a boy Pikachu with a heart-shaped tail. Maybe just make it random regardless of gender, kinda like shinies (but way more common).
Also Jolteon is awesome. I have a really cute sleeping Jolteon plush that I love.
It is weird, the -girl one has hearts on it- does kinda cheapen the world building a bit (like, Pikachu already heavily incorporates electricity symbols so adding a heart is so extra) but at the same time variation is good. Some of the regional and gender variations are legitimately great.
Last edited:
Since we've been talking Pikachu here's one of my favourite Pokemon card illustrations of the lil guy (note the heart the light makes between their heads):
Also on female Pikachu (which I think is cute fwiw) the opening of the Pokemon store in Kanazawa also gave away this cute kimono Pikachu card:
Also on female Pikachu (which I think is cute fwiw) the opening of the Pokemon store in Kanazawa also gave away this cute kimono Pikachu card:
Since I've unintentionally derailed the thread, might as well say my favs which a weird combo of cute and weird, with Bellossom (who is a special childhood fav for being my main in Pokemon Silver), Bidoof (a meme with friends which became became genuine fondness) and Slobber/Muk (my first caught Poke in Go and became my main there) being top three.
the dimorphism in the newer pokemon games honestly doesn't bother me a ton; most of it is done in a light-handed and realistic manner (like female donphan having shorter tusks than males, which is true of real african elephants), but i do agree that making the females of the more popular species frillier and cuter is a little irritating. i know it's just a strategy to sell toys to kids, but still.
As this is now a pokemon thread, the original 151 watercolor art;
Don't even act like these aren't the peak representations of the mons.
Don't even act like these aren't the peak representations of the mons.
I also feel like back before Eevee's popularity exploded, they were positioning Marill as "Pikachu for girls". I replayed Emerald somewhat recently and Marill is all over the place, but especially seems to be associated with girl trainers, while a lot of boys have Pikachu instead.
And yes Marill is cute as heck, but no Eevee.
And yes Marill is cute as heck, but no Eevee.
Last edited:
I played Gens 1 and 2, but I didn't really get into the series until Gen 3.
My three favorites are Swellow, Breloom and Latias.
My three favorites are Swellow, Breloom and Latias.
Edit* Had to think about my favorite, and I just have to accept that it's Alohan Raichu.
Last edited:
My OG favorite pokemon was this little guy.
The baby Pokemon left an impression on me. I noticed a trend in the later games where my favorites ended up being these guys.
Bugs and spiders terrify me irl. I can't even eat shrimp because they remind me of the crawlies. But the Pokedex entries for these guys caughty me by surprise with their tenderness (when its not being really edgelordy). Araquanid's here for case in point (I played Moon first. Didn't even know that was the Sun entry).
The baby Pokemon left an impression on me. I noticed a trend in the later games where my favorites ended up being these guys.
Bugs and spiders terrify me irl. I can't even eat shrimp because they remind me of the crawlies. But the Pokedex entries for these guys caughty me by surprise with their tenderness (when its not being really edgelordy). Araquanid's here for case in point (I played Moon first. Didn't even know that was the Sun entry).
I've been watching this thread for a while and now finally feel I have something to contribute....since I haven't seen love for Mega Ampharos yet!
That glorious mane!
That glorious mane!
I've been watching this thread for a while and now finally feel I have something to contribute....since I haven't seen love for Mega Ampharos yet!
That glorious mane!
This makes me think of the milk commercial from the mid 2000s, "Is it me, or do you love my hair" with the 80s hair band song with the actual singer being the lead from electric sixx. So funny. Flowing white hair
Evee is absolutely a fav, along with the Charmander + Charizard, Metagross, and:
Oh my gosh, the art is so stunning. Every time I consider getting into Pokemon cards as an adult, my bank account says nooooooo. I'd be chasing all the pretty art.
Since we've been talking Pikachu here's one of my favourite Pokemon card illustrations of the lil guy (note the heart the light makes between their heads):
Also on female Pikachu (which I think is cute fwiw) the opening of the Pokemon store in Kanazawa also gave away this cute kimono Pikachu card:
Oh my gosh, the art is so stunning. Every time I consider getting into Pokemon cards as an adult, my bank account says nooooooo. I'd be chasing all the pretty art.
Chandelure is an absolute classic. One of the few gen 5 pokemon even genwunners admitted to like.I missed the Pokemon train when I was younger since it felt like an expensive hobby I couldn't ask the parentals for at the time... but I still find some Pokemon really cute from a distance! I like this one:
I'm almost done with the FEAR trilogy, and I've got plenty to say about the series on the topic (I know, I know, what can we expect from a shooter from the mid 00s, but is it too much to ask for a game to treat women like human beings?). In general, the series strikes me as quite misogynistic, and not only because the entire premise is deeply rooted in misogyny (I'll discuss it in the Alma section), but I also think that a few things were done right. There will be mild spoilers, and I'll hide the heavy ones:
- Apparently, only men can join the Delta Force, although that was a bit retconned in the sequel as girls were also involved in the
experiments done by that elementary school. Yay, equality.
- Alice from the first game wasn't quite a damsel in distress, but when she wanted to do things her way, that was portrayed in a negative light.
- The language. A lot of misogynistic language in the first two games. That was very off-putting. Some of it is also directed at actual women, so it's not just a random 'bitch' here and there.
- I liked the characters of Jin and Stokes, and Stokes was easily the highlight of the second game. Mixed feelings on Aristide (due to her being a POS), but it was cool to have an older woman as a major character.
- Alma... Her backstory is that she was put into a coma until she was old enough (15) to bear children, and then she was forced to give birth to two of them. Basically, the entire series hinges on the abuse Alma had to go through on the basis of her sex. It's hard not to sympathize with her, but I'm not sure if they handled her well in the second game. On the one hand, I get the message that she wanted to have on a child on her own terms, but the means to achieve that... were rather extreme. I appreciate the fact that the game acknowledges that what happened to Becket was rape, but I can't shake off the feeling that the scene was done for the sake of titillation as well. I also read somewhere that her forms in the second game were supposed to invoke the trinity of a girl, a woman, and a crone, but I'm not a fond of that analogy as she died in her 20s, and her looking like that is a result of the experiments/abuse. As far as Alma's role as a mother is concerned, I think it was fine in a twisted way. She seems to... care in her own way. Overall, Alma is a tragic character and definitely a product of its (misogynistic) time. I didn't like the direction in which the second and third game went as much more could be done with her character. I'm not saying that men can't write women or something, but some of it could surely be fixed with more involvement/input from women.
- Another point that I want to mention is probably controversial, but it's something that bothers me when it comes to shooters in particular. The third game has cultist enemies that are zombies in all but name, and the thing about them is that all of them are men. I get when soldier enemies etc. are mostly represented by men (although it's also something that needs to be adjusted), but zombies? And they had a bunch of dead women in the game who could technically turn into them. I want to emphasize this because there's definitely been some reluctance to design women as enemies, which probably stems from the whole 'no hitting girls' mindset. It was also evident in Borderlands 1/2, for example, but they added female 'psycho' in the third one, which I welcomed. I don't know, I just believe that enemy representation also matters (in addition to women being main characters)? Maybe it's just me. Obviously, some chuds would want more women as enemies for their misogynistic purposes, and I know that things like that don't exist in a vacuum, but there are situations when having hostile women just makes sense, and they aren't there.
- Apparently, only men can join the Delta Force, although that was a bit retconned in the sequel as girls were also involved in the
experiments done by that elementary school. Yay, equality.
- Alice from the first game wasn't quite a damsel in distress, but when she wanted to do things her way, that was portrayed in a negative light.
- The language. A lot of misogynistic language in the first two games. That was very off-putting. Some of it is also directed at actual women, so it's not just a random 'bitch' here and there.
- I liked the characters of Jin and Stokes, and Stokes was easily the highlight of the second game. Mixed feelings on Aristide (due to her being a POS), but it was cool to have an older woman as a major character.
- Alma... Her backstory is that she was put into a coma until she was old enough (15) to bear children, and then she was forced to give birth to two of them. Basically, the entire series hinges on the abuse Alma had to go through on the basis of her sex. It's hard not to sympathize with her, but I'm not sure if they handled her well in the second game. On the one hand, I get the message that she wanted to have on a child on her own terms, but the means to achieve that... were rather extreme. I appreciate the fact that the game acknowledges that what happened to Becket was rape, but I can't shake off the feeling that the scene was done for the sake of titillation as well. I also read somewhere that her forms in the second game were supposed to invoke the trinity of a girl, a woman, and a crone, but I'm not a fond of that analogy as she died in her 20s, and her looking like that is a result of the experiments/abuse. As far as Alma's role as a mother is concerned, I think it was fine in a twisted way. She seems to... care in her own way. Overall, Alma is a tragic character and definitely a product of its (misogynistic) time. I didn't like the direction in which the second and third game went as much more could be done with her character. I'm not saying that men can't write women or something, but some of it could surely be fixed with more involvement/input from women.
- Another point that I want to mention is probably controversial, but it's something that bothers me when it comes to shooters in particular. The third game has cultist enemies that are zombies in all but name, and the thing about them is that all of them are men. I get when soldier enemies etc. are mostly represented by men (although it's also something that needs to be adjusted), but zombies? And they had a bunch of dead women in the game who could technically turn into them. I want to emphasize this because there's definitely been some reluctance to design women as enemies, which probably stems from the whole 'no hitting girls' mindset. It was also evident in Borderlands 1/2, for example, but they added female 'psycho' in the third one, which I welcomed. I don't know, I just believe that enemy representation also matters (in addition to women being main characters)? Maybe it's just me. Obviously, some chuds would want more women as enemies for their misogynistic purposes, and I know that things like that don't exist in a vacuum, but there are situations when having hostile women just makes sense, and they aren't there.
Oh god this post was a lot to read through. Just two things I guess. 1- what the fuck even is this stuff and 2 -
what the fuck is that stuff about Alma being put into a coma until 15 so she can have kids????? Like that cannot be any form of any real consent going on there :((((((((. Like not to make everything about my DID but like I know some littles who can consent in certain circumstances due to both being informed about the sex and liking the sex, and each of mine fail at least one of those, and I cannot see Alma in this scenario really fulfilling the first 1. ghoul shit
Yes, it's pretty awful. A small 'consolation' is that she was impregnated via some genetic shenanigans, so sex wasn't involved as far as I could gather from the game and extra materials, but Alma definitely couldn't consent to all that.
I also forgot to mention the unsavory part about the elementary school. While it's not really relevant to the topic, I have to admit that as a teacher myself, I was appalled by the fact that
its students were sedated and experimented on, and the supervisors made sure they couldn't remember that.
I think that the game doesn't portray those things as good, but the lack of consent as a horror device is quite upsetting.
Finally got far enough into Hades 2 to meet Eris and Hera. Eris looks absolutely nothing like I would've expected her to but I love how colorful her outfit is. She looks like a thrift store exploded all over her. The combination of her haircut, weapon, and the particular choice the actress made for her speaking voice really makes her feel like a character who's almost completely foreign to the universe she exists in.
Which makes sense for Eris, considering she's basically the embodiment of chaos. I also like the purple eyes and the sneaky apple on her belt.
Meanwhile, Hera's design is a lot. I don't know how to feel about it yet. I'll spoilertext the screenshot just in case people don't want to see it until they run into her properly.
I do like the imagery of her staff looking like two interlocking wedding rings most of all. Nice little detail tied to her particular domain.
God, I think I had blanked most of that FEAR stuff out of my memory over the years. I played FEAR 1 and I think the second one too and somehow I remembered almost none of that.
Which makes sense for Eris, considering she's basically the embodiment of chaos. I also like the purple eyes and the sneaky apple on her belt.
Meanwhile, Hera's design is a lot. I don't know how to feel about it yet. I'll spoilertext the screenshot just in case people don't want to see it until they run into her properly.
I do like the imagery of her staff looking like two interlocking wedding rings most of all. Nice little detail tied to her particular domain.
God, I think I had blanked most of that FEAR stuff out of my memory over the years. I played FEAR 1 and I think the second one too and somehow I remembered almost none of that.
Yeah, I really like the FEAR games, and I vaguely remembered that Alma had been experimented on and tortured as a child and had her children taken from her, but not all the specifics. Just to be clear for others, at no point does the game try to pretend that what happened to her was ok, and I don't remember them ever playing it off in a titillating way, but it was 10ish years ago when I last played it.
I thought it was a pretty effective horror game where you absolutely sympathize with the antagonist even though you still have to stop her. In hindsight, it definitely has some issues, but I think if it released today, it would still be mostly okay.
I thought it was a pretty effective horror game where you absolutely sympathize with the antagonist even though you still have to stop her. In hindsight, it definitely has some issues, but I think if it released today, it would still be mostly okay.
I don't know if I felt that FEAR was particularly misogynistic at the time, but it's been a long time since I played it as well. More that it's a bunch of very common horror and action movie tropes. My issues with the game were mostly the drab repetitive environments in the first game, and the second game being such a huge tonal shift in art style and writing. I never played the third game though, due to the poor reviews and extreme co-op focus.
The games are definitely written from a man's POV though, and the underlying premise itself is definitely kind of misogynist or at least emblematic of how women are treated in media. I think it's telling that you would probably never see a game like FEAR done the other way around, where a boy was treated the same way as Alma, for the same type of reason.
The games are definitely written from a man's POV though, and the underlying premise itself is definitely kind of misogynist or at least emblematic of how women are treated in media. I think it's telling that you would probably never see a game like FEAR done the other way around, where a boy was treated the same way as Alma, for the same type of reason.
I think it's worth noting that some of the stuff is mostly present in those phone messages/intel dumps scattered around the levels that are missable, so if you only pay attention to the main story, it doesn't seem that bad (except for your superior calling Alice a b-word in the middle of a mission). A particularly nasty exchange was in an intel file, for example.
I've only played the first two FEAR games and their DLC (no interest in the third from what I've read) and honestly I feel like the story of the first game and its DLC is actually pretty good and I wish we could have gotten more story that follows the DLC.
It's really only FEAR 2 in my mind that the story becomes a lot more sexist and I really didn't like how they turned Alma into a stereotypical evil villain and has more questionable content to say the least
It's really only FEAR 2 in my mind that the story becomes a lot more sexist and I really didn't like how they turned Alma into a stereotypical evil villain and has more questionable content to say the least