• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,640
Long time lurker who occasionally shows his wife ridiculous things in gaming that are posted here.

Not sure if this has been discussed but just here but I saw this beauty on the front page of Steam today:
store.steampowered.com

Site Error


And um, yeah.

"When skyrim modders decide to make their own game. With hookers and blackjack. In fact, forget the game!"
 

Xwing

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
9,898
I admire your optimism, and I'd be overjoyed to eat crow, but I can't see a game of this scale giving Link and Zelda equally big roles in separate equally large open worlds.

Well the underground portion wouldn't be an open world, it would be a series of dungeons more similar to "traditional" 3D Zelda games rather than the shrines/beasts in the first game. The number one criticism of BOTW was the lack of traditional dungeon experiences and I think the reason the sequel is taking so long (besides COVID) is they're earnestly trying to address criticisms of the first game.

Edit: I freely admit that my speculation is optimistic, but I don't think it's unrealistic, especially considering the increasing influence of younger developers in the Zelda team.
 
Jun 24, 2021
1,637
I feel it's very out of line to tell a woman - in this thread of all threads - it's "irresponsible and childish" to expect the usual from Nintendo and to be reluctant to give them the benefit of the doubt when they've repeatedly proven they absolutely do not deserve it for decades now. Trust and faith are things that are earned, not God given rights, and there's nothing wrong with not having any of either in Nintendo to make Zelda more than a damsel yet again. It's not "pessimistic" to have reasonable expectations based on past behavior.
I never used the word "trust". I don't trust Nintendo will do right by Zelda but I will not back down that they do deserve the benefit of the doubt which is entirely different.

Nintendo has shown signs of modernity and positive change recently. Not as fast as some would want but it is there and it's undeniable. Hell in Mario Odyssey, their flagship Nintendo mascot, has Peach saying fuck you to both men courting her and decides to go on her own and see the world. Sure she was still damseled at the start of the game but it's not nothing. Or how about Animal Crossing ditching "male" and "female"? Changes are happening and I refuse to be this jaded. Zelda BotW2 deserves, at this point, the benefit of the doubt.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,452
Canada
Yes they do. Everyone does. It's never too late for someone to make a change. I refuse to be this pessimistic which is something this forum doesn't need more of.

As of July 2021 we don't know Jack about this game and to mock it for its treatment of its female lead at this point is irresponsible and childish.

Trust me, I'll pass the pitchforks and stand besides you if, after the game has come out, Zelda got the short end of the stick yet again. But at this point? Yes. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah! You tell that woman to be excited. 🙄

I never used the word "trust". But I will not back down that they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Nintendo has shown signs of modernity and positive change recently. Not as fast as some would want but it is there and it's undeniable. Hell in Mario Odyssey, their flagship Nintendo mascot, has Peach saying fuck you to both men courting her and decides to go on her own and see the world. Sure she was still damseled at the start of the game but it's not nothing. Or how about Animal Crossing ditching "male" and "female"? Changes are happening and I refuse to be this jaded. Zelda BotW2 deserves, at this point, the benefit of the doubt.

Oof, we really using Princess Peach as a bar for progressive roles?? She's forcibly kidnapped to become Bowser's wife, her heel--turn and stomping out of the situation is just logical > progressive lol

Pyra and Mythra were JUST added to Smash and, with it, bring the first characters to include jiggle physics outside of Jigglypuff (ba dum tss).

"Benefit of the doubt" has to be earned. And for how old Mario and Zelda games are, seeing so little change in 30 years to the ladies' status quo, unless they're in a spin-off, definitely doesn't deserve that benefit. At least for me. But I don't live in your jolly majority-male-hero-world. Ladies are often nice side characters, with less HP and supportive roles. 🙃
 
Last edited:
Jun 24, 2021
1,637
Oof, we really using Princess Peach as a bar for progressive roles??
I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I never said Peach is progressive or the bar on anything. Just that it's one of many reasons to point out there's been some changes coming from Nintendo. I even acknowledged they're not happening at the pace some would want but they're there and this make me want to remain positive.

I'm backing out, I don't want to step on toes anymore but know that if they do shit the bed with Zelda in BotW2 (which it's very much a real possibility!) I'm you're number 2 guy. But until then I refuse to be negative about it.
 
Last edited:

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I never used the word "trust". I don't trust Nintendo will do right by Zelda but I will not back down that they do deserve the benefit of the doubt which is entirely different.

Nintendo has shown signs of modernity and positive change recently. Not as fast as some would want but it is there and it's undeniable. Hell in Mario Odyssey, their flagship Nintendo mascot, has Peach saying fuck you to both men courting her and decides to go on her own and see the world. Sure she was still damseled at the start of the game but it's not nothing. Or how about Animal Crossing ditching "male" and "female"? Changes are happening and I refuse to be this jaded. Zelda BotW2 deserves, at this point, the benefit of the doubt.

It's fine to want to give that benefit of the doubt if you believe Nintendo's improving in this regard, but it's wrong to expect it of anyone else who, like, actually feels the brunt of these fuckups on the part of game companies.

Like, Pyra and Mythra are in Smash with redesigns because their designs are such otaku pandering bullshit they couldn't get in otherwise, and it's clear they would have if permitted. That's not a company that inherently deserves the benefit of the doubt.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,452
Canada
It's fine to want to give that benefit of the doubt if you believe Nintendo's improving in this regard, but it's wrong to expect it of anyone else who, like, actually feels the brunt of these fuckups on the part of game companies.

Like, Pyra and Mythra are in Smash with redesigns because their designs are such otaku pandering bullshit they couldn't get in otherwise, and it's clear they would have if permitted. That's not a company that inherently deserves the benefit of the doubt.
2707.jpg

lol I just pictured Geno finally joining Smash ...in pants!
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,117
San Jose, Costa Rica
I may be wrong, as I have only played about 4 hours of the Saturn version and only seen videos of the 2019 game (so I dont know what other clothes or scenes are there)

Also, these may not be extreme examples (compared to other ones shared here), but:

Instead of more progressive, it feels to me that Sakura Wars 2019 is actually more sexualised than the 1996 Sakura Taisen (Sega Saturn) original.

Quick comparison:

1996 (image from the Anime made a few years later, but still using the same design-aesthetics)

EKD4HVGWsAIJEvE


2019

49826626083_2785776d42_o.jpg
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,319
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Oh you know. Another old series from another old company given an un-earned benefit of the doubt. Including shutting down criticism from women.
Since that thread is basically an unofficial OT as this point, a word of caution for potentially engaging in cross-thread/community commentary. Just warning you for everyone's sake. 😩
 

Malakym

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2019
361
I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. I never said Peach is progressive or the bar on anything. Just that it's one of many reasons to point out there's been some changes coming from Nintendo. I even acknowledged they're not happening at the pace some would want but they're there and this make me want to remain positive.

I'm backing out, I don't want to step on toes anymore but know that if they do shit the bed with Zelda in BotW2 (which it's very much a real possibility!) I'm you're number 2 guy. But until then I refuse to be negative about it.

Your positivity is admirable, but this isnt a hype thread. Maybe actually read what it's about before coming in and tut-tutting people for not having complete faith in a company that has time and time again proven it actually doesnt deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to representation for the most part.
 
Last edited:

Eien1no1Yami

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,298
I may be wrong, as I have only played about 4 hours of the Saturn version and only seen videos of the 2019 game (so I dont know what other clothes or scenes are there)

Also, these may not be extreme examples (compared to other ones shared here), but:

Instead of more progressive, it feels to me that Sakura Wars 2019 is actually more sexualised than the 1996 Sakura Taisen (Sega Saturn) original.

That is true unfortunately and the reason being Tite Kubo of course.
Having said that when they announced his name in the reveal I was afraid of way worse designs in general and it seems that by interviews I've read,
initially Kubo wanted to add large breasts to more girls, for example even Claris(the blonde in the green dress) but some of the stuff(mainly female) constrained
him.
Tbh now that a lot has passed since the release of game and after reflecting on it, Kubo was not a good fit for Sakura Wars in the first place and no matter from which angle you see it.
They should have picked someone else, I know that Fujishima is also not an option for other reasons but there were still other people to choose from
 
Jul 19, 2020
1,132
I never used the word "trust". I don't trust Nintendo will do right by Zelda but I will not back down that they do deserve the benefit of the doubt which is entirely different.
Well then we fundamentally disagree about what benefit of the doubt means, because to me it implies a level of trust that the subject has changed or will not perform how you might typically expect. I don't trust Nintendo to make Zelda's role in BotW 2 much different to the first one, at absolute most I anticipate a brief period in which she's a friendly npc before she gets damsel'd again or otherwise removed from an active role in the story - which is essentially not all that different from front-loading the flashbacks in BotW would be.

Nintendo has shown signs of modernity and positive change recently. Not as fast as some would want but it is there and it's undeniable. Hell in Mario Odyssey, their flagship Nintendo mascot, has Peach saying fuck you to both men courting her and decides to go on her own and see the world. Sure she was still damseled at the start of the game but it's not nothing. Or how about Animal Crossing ditching "male" and "female"? Changes are happening and I refuse to be this jaded. Zelda BotW2 deserves, at this point, the benefit of the doubt.
I don't particularly consider Peach's response in the post-game of Odyssey indicative of any change on the part of the rest of Nintendo, particularly the entirely separate team working on BotW 2, and the removal of "male and female" from Animal Crossing is an invention of the American branch's English localization process and does not exist in any other release of the game.

I think Nintendo have shown some genuine signs of positive change in recent years in how they handle women in their games but its primarily being driven by (relatively) "younger" devs on teams for stuff such as Splatoon and Arms, the American branch taking liberties with their translations, or external partners like Intelligent Systems pulling back from the absolute dumpster fire that was FE: Fates female cast to improve a bit for each of the last two games. None of it really has any bearing on Aonuma being more likely to alter Zelda's typical role in that series.
 

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
5,820
US: PA
If another Sakura Wars game comes out, I imagine the clothes will come off. Because it will be a gacha game.

No hopes for anything. Only despair.

Also, decades old franchises don't get any benefits of any doubts. Especially the one who also doesn't do women any favors in their avatar.
 

Eien1no1Yami

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,298
If another Sakura Wars game comes out, I imagine the clothes will come off. Because it will be a gacha game.

There is already a Sakura Wars Gatcha game, that came out a year ago and it actually had some pretty tame designs for a game like that.
I have barely played myself but maybe other people who did can comment more thoroughly about this
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,051
If another Sakura Wars game comes out, I imagine the clothes will come off. Because it will be a gacha game.

No hopes for anything. Only despair.

Also, decades old franchises don't get any benefits of any doubts. Especially the one who also doesn't do women any favors in their avatar.
No worries there, as they just made a Sakura Wars gacha game that completely bombed. I mean, really tanked. Like quickest-shutdown-for-a-major-gacha-ever tanked. It also cost them a TON of money to make.

 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,756
Since that thread is basically an unofficial OT as this point, a word of caution for potentially engaging in cross-thread/community commentary. Just warning you for everyone's sake. 😩

As the one who asked the question, I apologize. I second guessed myself after asking it, and I probably should have went with my doubts and gone to research myself instead of opening things up for cross-threading.

They should have picked someone else, I know that Fujishima is also not an option for other reasons but there were still other people to choose from
I'd KILL for Kanna's leggings here. 🔥 🍁

I was really sad that Fujishima didn't come back for Sakura Wars designs. Dude's absolutely one of the tamer designers for women.

Was a reason given as to why they went with a new char designer instead of the traditional one? I just thought it was due to the series going through a "reboot".
 

Eien1no1Yami

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,298
Was a reason given as to why they went with a new char designer instead of the traditional one? I just thought it was due to the series going through a "reboot".
Well not officially of course but it was heavily rumored that the reason was this one :
Newlywed Oh My Goddess! Creator Faces Lawsuit From Reported Former Fiancé

But again tbh even if there was no scandal and they picked Fujishima I have to admit that's he's not what he used to be.
Just take a look at his latest Tales of designs and you can see what I mean...
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,054
Well not officially of course but it was heavily rumored that the reason was this one :
Newlywed Oh My Goddess! Creator Faces Lawsuit From Reported Former Fiancé

But again tbh even if there was no scandal and they picked Fujishima I have to admit that's he's not what he used to be.
Just take a look at his latest Tales of designs and you can see what I mean...
Fujishima hasn't been the sole character designer of a Tales game since Vesperia. Case in point, Eleanor was the only main character that he drew for Berseria. All the dumb designs have mostly come from the other artists.

The increase of objectifying designs in Tales games is probably due in part to Fujishima's decreasing involvement in the franchise (I don't think he's even involved with Arise). That's not to say Fujishima didn't have objectifying designs himself - it just felt less common.
 

Eien1no1Yami

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,298
Fujishima hasn't been the sole character designer of a Tales game since Vesperia. Case in point, Eleanor was the only main character that he drew for Berseria. All the dumb designs have mostly come from the other artists.

The increase of objectifying designs in Tales games is probably due in part to Fujishima's decreasing involvement in the franchise (I don't think he's even involved with Arise). That's not to say Fujishima didn't have objectifying designs himself - it just felt less common.
Really?I didn't know that...thanks for bringing it up!
Is there maybe a list somewhere with the Tales characters that he created?
That would be interesting
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,054
Really?I didn't know that...thanks for bringing it up!
Is there maybe a list somewhere with the Tales characters that he created?
That would be interesting
Weirdly enough, I couldn't find a simple list, which I thought would be on a wiki or fansite. But I can still mostly sum up his Tales designs (though I probably missed a side character or two)

Tales of Phantasia, Symphonia, Abyss & Vesperia: Every Character

Tales of Xillia: Jude & Elise

IFLgclh.jpg


CKnPYCo.png




Tales of Zestiria: Sorey & Rose

Fy3MOHe.jpg


55N9kQ3.jpg





Tales of Berseria: Eleanor & Artorius

rSVUNQp.jpg


FEiX9lI.jpg




Eleanor does fall prey to the thigh highs trope but that's pretty minor compared to the design of every other female character in Berseria.
 

Mmmmkay

Banned
Jan 8, 2018
109
I may be wrong, as I have only played about 4 hours of the Saturn version and only seen videos of the 2019 game (so I dont know what other clothes or scenes are there)

Also, these may not be extreme examples (compared to other ones shared here), but:

Instead of more progressive, it feels to me that Sakura Wars 2019 is actually more sexualised than the 1996 Sakura Taisen (Sega Saturn) original.

Quick comparison:

1996 (image from the Anime made a few years later, but still using the same design-aesthetics)

EKD4HVGWsAIJEvE


2019

49826626083_2785776d42_o.jpg
I miss the artstyle and designs so much. The new ones just aren't half as appealing to me.
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,117
San Jose, Costa Rica
Tales of Phantasia, Symphonia, Abyss & Vesperia: Every Character

Interesting. Phantasia, Abyss and Vesperia have the best designs in the Tales series (by far, IMHO). I was not sure that it was the same person behind them but now I see the aesthetic patterns.

I do like Destiny 1 as well (and I dont really like the new Tales designs), but it certainly looks less grounded and coherent than these samples.

As a general response to some of your comments: I agree with the sentiment of the 90s anime look. The shading in the hair and use of shadows in particular added a lot to the image.
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,131
Morizora's Forest
So I'm playing and enjoying MonHun Stories 2. One of the costumes you get for an NPC is a costume from MH Rise I believe. I thought it looked ok.
fEiIfrx.jpg


But uhhh... You can't see it from the front but I'm pretty sure this is a foot binding.
800px-ChineseLadieFootgif.gif

At first I thought it was an idle animation or something but that is just how it is. She walks and runs on that and just looking at it is unpleasant.
QfDp1sv.jpg

Comparison pic
8FMARHh.jpg

c4lLX6k.jpg

xr9Ql3y.jpg

I don't have any more words for this.
 

Manu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,191
Buenos Aires, Argentina
So I'm playing and enjoying MonHun Stories 2. One of the costumes you get for an NPC is a costume from MH Rise I believe. I thought it looked ok.
fEiIfrx.jpg


But uhhh... You can't see it from the front but I'm pretty sure this is a foot binding.
800px-ChineseLadieFootgif.gif

At first I thought it was an idle animation or something but that is just how it is. She walks and runs on that and just looking at it is unpleasant.
QfDp1sv.jpg

Comparison pic
8FMARHh.jpg

c4lLX6k.jpg

xr9Ql3y.jpg

I don't have any more words for this.
It's not foot binding. That's just what Wyverian feet look like, for men and women.

250


DXa1ZApWsAE8PiR.jpg


You just can't tell with her normal boots.

They also have four fingers on each hand.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,190
So I'm playing and enjoying MonHun Stories 2. One of the costumes you get for an NPC is a costume from MH Rise I believe. I thought it looked ok.
fEiIfrx.jpg


But uhhh... You can't see it from the front but I'm pretty sure this is a foot binding.
800px-ChineseLadieFootgif.gif

At first I thought it was an idle animation or something but that is just how it is. She walks and runs on that and just looking at it is unpleasant.
QfDp1sv.jpg

Comparison pic
8FMARHh.jpg

c4lLX6k.jpg

xr9Ql3y.jpg

I don't have any more words for this.

That foot style works on chibi characters, but this…this does not look good.

Edit: Seeing the digitigrade characters above makes this a bit better I guess? I still don't really like it though.
 

carrot_

Member
Feb 21, 2021
160
So I'm playing and enjoying MonHun Stories 2. One of the costumes you get for an NPC is a costume from MH Rise I believe. I thought it looked ok.
fEiIfrx.jpg


But uhhh... You can't see it from the front but I'm pretty sure this is a foot binding.
800px-ChineseLadieFootgif.gif

At first I thought it was an idle animation or something but that is just how it is. She walks and runs on that and just looking at it is unpleasant.
QfDp1sv.jpg

Comparison pic
8FMARHh.jpg

c4lLX6k.jpg

xr9Ql3y.jpg

I don't have any more words for this.

How in the world is she walking—let alone running—like that?

Edit: If her feet are supposed to be hooves to explain these shoes, how in the world is she fitting her feet and walking "normally" in those tight high-heeled boots she's wearing in her other costume? I guess that would be my question then.
 
So I'm playing and enjoying MonHun Stories 2. One of the costumes you get for an NPC is a costume from MH Rise I believe. I thought it looked ok.
fEiIfrx.jpg


But uhhh... You can't see it from the front but I'm pretty sure this is a foot binding.
800px-ChineseLadieFootgif.gif

At first I thought it was an idle animation or something but that is just how it is. She walks and runs on that and just looking at it is unpleasant.
QfDp1sv.jpg

Comparison pic
8FMARHh.jpg

c4lLX6k.jpg

xr9Ql3y.jpg

I don't have any more words for this.
She not traditional human but that not a good excuse when we got horse girls who have normal feet but horse shoe shoes
u6.png.jpg

2.png
 

Raftina

Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,655
I guess they wanted a digitigrade species without the most likely necessary body structure changes that would need to accompany a digitigrade upright species.

Zealot_SC2-LotV_Art4.jpg
 

Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
She not traditional human but that not a good excuse when we got horse girls who have normal feet but horse shoe shoes
u6.png.jpg

2.png

what the shit

...horse shoes don't make sense to me on horse feet, let alone human feet. Especially horse shoes on human shoes for human feet.

"Working" horses need them to protect them from hoof wear down, since they can become lopsided or split walking on concrete, and other hard surfaces as well as since if they are bein ridden, raced or used for work can double their weight causing the hooves to break, or wear. since hooves are basically like overgrown fingernails. Wild horses dont need them because they're not stressed to work in unnatural conditions and wear down normally.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
9,525
Mass
"Working" horses need them to protect them from hoof wear down, since they can become lopsided or split walking on concrete, and other hard surfaces as well as since if they are bein ridden, raced or used for work can double their weight causing the hooves to break, or wear. since hooves are basically like overgrown fingernails. Wild horses dont need them because they're not stressed to work in unnatural conditions and wear down normally.
Today I learned.

I meant it more in the way e^(iπ)=−1 doesn't make sense. I've read the proof and understand it at one point in my life in college. I don't doubt that it is true. But it still doesn't make sense, you know?
 

4859

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,046
In the weak and the wounded
How in the world is she walking—let alone running—like that?

Edit: If her feet are supposed to be hooves to explain these shoes, how in the world is she fitting her feet and walking "normally" in those tight high-heeled boots she's wearing in her other costume? I guess that would be my question then.

I don't know why people keep saying hooves, they are wyvern like feet, with the weight on the pads, airborne heels and no.... Hooves. yet I feel odd one out about being the only one who feels this distinction.

Judging by her ears and 4 fingered hands she's definitely a wyverian, so she should have the wyverian feet that put all weight on the pads with the heel off the ground.

Which means yeah, those human boots would be very uncomfortable boots for her foot shape. Maybe she just loves those human boots so much she's putting up with torture for fashion..... or insert a bazillion possibilities here.

My copy has not arrived yet, so I don't know if she's trying to disguise the fact that she is a wyverian, but with her 4 fingered hands and pointy ears out in the open, she doesn't seem to be trying very hard beyond wearing human boots.
 

Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
Today I learned.

I meant it more in the way e^(iπ)=−1 doesn't make sense. I've read the proof and understand it at one point in my life in college. I don't doubt that it is true. But it still doesn't make sense, you know?

I cant walk my dog too long outside since the breed I have is a "Shepard" breed, meant for grassy climates and not concrete and tar, it'd tear up his paws.

just the tribulations animals have to go through thanks to thousands of years of domestication
 
is that the one where the girls are based off of real life race horses and showing "echhi" stuff of them is strongly strongly discouraged because it could effect their standings/popularity?
Yeah, which kinda explain the choice of outfits for many of the characters. Not to say they blur the line a little with a few characters but outside of the race outfits and some dancing outfits, their school uniform, swimsuit, and casual wear are all respectful.

One last thing horse phones

special-week-taking-a-call.jpg
 
Last edited:

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,066
Yeah, which kinda explain the choice of outfits for many of the characters. Not to say they blur the line a little with a few characters but outside of the race outfits and some dancing outfits, their school uniform, swimsuit, and casual wear are all respectful.

One last thing horse phones

special-week-taking-a-call.jpg
I haven't seen this series but I've heard the female characters aren't all that sexualized and you can't find fanart smut of them because these girls are based on real horses whom everyone in Japan implicitly understands are owned by the Yakuza.