Untogether

Member
Oct 29, 2017
350
Vaccinated people straight in and then tests on the door for everyone else.

Given the evidence for vaccination is currently a card with a sticker on it, I see a roaring trade in counterfeit vaccination cards. (There is a QR code on the sticker, but I doubt venues like sports or festivals will be verifying the code.)
 

Jokerman

Member
May 16, 2020
7,082
Given the evidence for vaccination is currently a card with a sticker on it, I see a roaring trade in counterfeit vaccination cards. (There is a QR code on the sticker, but I doubt venues like sports or festivals will be verifying the code.)

You are probably right, but I guess given we have vaccinated over 50% of adults already (albeit only one dose in the majority of cases) there is likely to be enough immunity by that time for events to not be as stringent over such matters.
 

Linkified

Member
Dec 24, 2017
1,206
Given the evidence for vaccination is currently a card with a sticker on it, I see a roaring trade in counterfeit vaccination cards. (There is a QR code on the sticker, but I doubt venues like sports or festivals will be verifying the code.)

Before we get to that point the Government has to decide, actually collectivelly the Governments around the world need to come together to determine what is suitable. Personally it should be like a driving license with a QR code on and photo
 

Deleted member 16516

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,427
The old and now rebranded remain campaign organisation just launched their drive for Proportional Representation.
Today, I'm excited to announce the launch of PR2028, our new campaign to bring about Proportional Representation for UK General Elections by 2028, at the latest.

In recent years it has become increasingly clear that our First Past the Post (FPTP) electoral system no longer meets the needs and expectations of 21st Century electors. The 'winner takes all' nature of FPTP breeds destructive 'win at all costs' behaviours that undermine efforts to find common ground and build consensus. FPTP leaves millions of voters disillusioned and disengaged. As we enter a period of significant change for our country, it is essential that our democratic system drives open debate about the future we want to build, and involves the widest possible range of people. The outdated electoral system at the heart of our democracy is getting in the way of that and it needs to change.

Since embarking on our current mission of 'Making Democracy Work…For Everyone' last year, many of our supporters have urged us to add our energy to the work already under way to make PR a reality. With the launch of PR2028, I am glad that we will be able to work alongside organisations such as Make Votes Matter and the Electoral Reform Society to push this important cause. In the coming weeks, I look forward to discussing our plans with other campaigns to ensure we add value where it is most needed.

You may be wondering why we have focussed our campaign on the year 2028. Well, 2028 will be the centenary of the Equal Franchise Act of 1928, the legislation that finally gave women in the UK equal voting rights. (Some rights had been won in 1918 but it was not until 1928 that true equality was achieved.) We think that centenary provides a fitting deadline for the achievement of a reform that will ensure millions of voices currently excluded from the democratic process can finally be heard. For the avoidance of doubt, we see 2028 as an absolute deadline…if we can help make PR a reality before then, so much the better!

Our two immediate priorities are to raise public awareness of the benefits of proportional representation and to challenge the government to call a national citizens' assembly to consider which form of PR best suits the needs of our country as it navigates its post-Brexit, post-Covid future. We believe citizens' assemblies have an important role to play in our future democracy and that they are a particularly good way of answering questions like this. We are so convinced of this that, if by February of next year the government has not accepted our call for a national citizens' assembly, we will ask fellow campaigners to work with us to establish an independent one.
For that reason, we are today launching a petition designed to gauge public appetite for a citizens' assembly on PR. We hope that petition will demonstrate significant support for the idea and help make the case to government. So please, sign the petition, share it with your friends and family, and forward it to all your contacts on social media. The bigger that petition, the more chance we will have of replacing our unfair 'winner takes all' electoral system.

Let me finish with a huge 'thanks' to you and the hundreds of thousands of others who support makes all our work possible. We know that you are as passionate as we are about making the UK the best possible version of itself. We know from the battles of the past that you are fearless and resolute when standing up for the values we all share. And we know that, like us, you will not be bullied by this cowardly government's attempt to stifle legitimate peaceful protest. As we grow this campaign, we look forward to using the strength of our movement to ensure the UK is a place where democracy truly works for everyone.




Good luck to them.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,185
It seems Latitude is taking the approach I suggested earlier

www.bbc.co.uk

Latitude Festival in Suffolk will run at 'full capacity'

People who have not been vaccinated for Covid will have to take a test before they enter.

Vaccinated people straight in and then tests on the door for everyone else.
The EU "passport" is supposed to also allow you to move as long as you have had a negative test in a set amount of time, so I suspect UK will follow a similar model.
 

Deleted member 8579

Oct 26, 2017
33,843
Did they have a public vote on PR many years ago or was that something else?
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,344
I have this awful feeling the reopening will be pushed back. I don't want to doom Post cos I'm feeling very down and eager to reopen myself but I can't help it.

When you say reopening, do you mean the June date of social distancing etc being removed or do you mean the first step of early April for rule of 6 outdoors etc?

I already forsee the June date being pushed back slightly, but everything else I feel will hit its target despite the April vaccine delays. 50% of the population are vaccinated with a first dose, cases are down (although they may be levelling off slightly that's due to the huge amounts of extra tests) and deaths are bouncing between the low 100's and double digits.

They need to start opening gradually, especially for peoples businesses, mental health, and general morale of the country.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,796
Definite uptick in COVID hospitalisations in Wales over the last few days. Not anything to be concerned about yet, but odd all the same.
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,750
When you say reopening, do you mean the June date of social distancing etc being removed or do you mean the first step of early April for rule of 6 outdoors etc?

I already forsee the June date being pushed back slightly, but everything else I feel will hit its target despite the April vaccine delays. 50% of the population are vaccinated with a first dose, cases are down (although they may be levelling off slightly that's due to the huge amounts of extra tests) and deaths are bouncing between the low 100's and double digits.

They need to start opening gradually, especially for peoples businesses, mental health, and general morale of the country.
All of it. I could see April being pushed back and whatever the new June date is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
312
I'd be pretty shocked if April was pushed back, I think if something was going to cause that to happen we'd be seeing more evidence of it by now.

The others are harder to tell, but I would say since we made the roadmap not only have we been able to vaccinate faster than we expected, but the evidence that's coming in suggests that the vaccines are considerably more effective than people assumed at the time the roadmap was made.
 

Shiz Padoo

Member
Oct 13, 2018
6,289
When I see the daily infections graph on the BBC we are still at the same level we were this time last year when lockdown 1 started. Yes, we have vaccines, but I think the numbers have gone down because of vaccines AND lockdown. I also think a large number of people will not get the vaccine, so that population will continue to suffer from the virus. And the vaccines as a whole are probably on average 75 - 8o% effective, so some of theose vaccinated could still get really sick. Whether this is enough for delayed lifting of restrictions or another lockdown, who knows.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
on the same day they announce half the adult population has had a vaccine you've got these fucking idiots doing an "anti-lockdown protest"

 

Jokerman

Member
May 16, 2020
7,082
When I see the daily infections graph on the BBC we are still at the same level we were this time last year when lockdown 1 started. Yes, we have vaccines, but I think the numbers have gone down because of vaccines AND lockdown. I also think a large number of people will not get the vaccine, so that population will continue to suffer from the virus. And the vaccines as a whole are probably on average 75 - 8o% effective, so some of theose vaccinated could still get really sick. Whether this is enough for delayed lifting of restrictions or another lockdown, who knows.

It is all about the numbers. Unless we get to a point where hospitals can't cope, we will be opening up the economy as society can't continue in lockdown indefinitely. Infections will never go away and people will continue to die unfortunately, but life will go on.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,344
All of it. I could see April being pushed back and whatever the new June date is.

On what basis though? Schools have opened and most stats are still decreasing in terms of deaths, hospitalisations, and total cases whilst vaccines still go up?


When I see the daily infections graph on the BBC we are still at the same level we were this time last year when lockdown 1 started. Yes, we have vaccines, but I think the numbers have gone down because of vaccines AND lockdown. I also think a large number of people will not get the vaccine, so that population will continue to suffer from the virus. And the vaccines as a whole are probably on average 75 - 8o% effective, so some of theose vaccinated could still get really sick. Whether this is enough for delayed lifting of restrictions or another lockdown, who knows.

Again, thats because of the massive increase in testing so of course the numbers are going to still be high because we are testing at such a higher rate especially compared to last year even with a more infectious strain.

Also nothing has indicated that a 'large number' of people will not get the vaccine, the current percentages are very high and I imagine the final uptake will level out even in the high 80%. The vaccine prevents transmission, prevents getting the disease in the first place, the need for hospitalisation, and also death so even though some may still get the virus, most wont be hospitalised or die and wont all be in the priority group age to be massively effected.

I understand that the news off the vaccine supply being limited is a downer, but the doom posting is really not helping and not really based on anything.

As long as hospitalisations stay low and continue to go down, deaths stay in the low 100's/double digits, vaccines continue to go up, and the number of cases doesn't spiral out of control, the country will continue (and needs to) open up and some point. We can't just stay like this indefinitely.
 

Wil348

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,213
Definite uptick in COVID hospitalisations in Wales over the last few days. Not anything to be concerned about yet, but odd all the same.

Could be related to the cluster areas? I'm really hoping that's the case, the Welsh government seem to be indicating them being the issue right now, at least with the uptick in cases.
 

Dizzy Ukulele

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,013
The anti-lockdowners doth protest too much, methinks.

We're coming out of the lockdown when we're ready to do so. This potentially makes us less ready to do so. It shouldn't be hard to grasp.
 

Xun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,351
London
didn't know this was a thing. just booked for wembley!
Nice! I'll be going on the first night (6th August).

I've wanted to see him perform for a very long time, so it's great he's finally playing in the UK.

What the fuck, just got some ridiculous anti lockdown ad on YouTube, how are they allowing this? I swear that site is such trash
I got the exact same thing tonight.

I didn't watch all of it of course, but it was a 4 min advert.

Pure idiocy.

It seems Latitude is taking the approach I suggested earlier

www.bbc.co.uk

Latitude Festival in Suffolk will run at 'full capacity'

People who have not been vaccinated for Covid will have to take a test before they enter.

Vaccinated people straight in and then tests on the door for everyone else.
This is definitely the way to go.

I do wonder if only one dose would count as being vaccinated though, otherwise pretty much everyone would have to be tested.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,539
Nice! I'll be going on the first night (6th August).

I've wanted to see him perform for a very long time, so it's great he's finally playing in the UK.

I don't know what to expect. My wife has a habit of going to sleep to Ghibli tunes (with overlaid background noise like cicadas or rain). But she's a 'concert' person and I'm wondering if it'll be full of anime fans
 

Vashetti

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,574
Also nothing has indicated that a 'large number' of people will not get the vaccine, the current percentages are very high and I imagine the final uptake will level out even in the high 80%. The vaccine prevents transmission, prevents getting the disease in the first place, the need for hospitalisation, and also death so even though some may still get the virus, most wont be hospitalised or die and wont all be in the priority group age to be massively effected.
This is disingenuous, the vaccine significantly reduces the chance of these factors, but isn't 100% foolproof.
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,750
On what basis though? Schools have opened and most stats are still decreasing in terms of deaths, hospitalisations, and total cases whilst vaccines still go up?




Again, thats because of the massive increase in testing so of course the numbers are going to still be high because we are testing at such a higher rate especially compared to last year even with a more infectious strain.

Also nothing has indicated that a 'large number' of people will not get the vaccine, the current percentages are very high and I imagine the final uptake will level out even in the high 80%. The vaccine prevents transmission, prevents getting the disease in the first place, the need for hospitalisation, and also death so even though some may still get the virus, most wont be hospitalised or die and wont all be in the priority group age to be massively effected.

I understand that the news off the vaccine supply being limited is a downer, but the doom posting is really not helping and not really based on anything.

As long as hospitalisations stay low and continue to go down, deaths stay in the low 100's/double digits, vaccines continue to go up, and the number of cases doesn't spiral out of control, the country will continue (and needs to) open up and some point. We can't just stay like this indefinitely.
Mainly this past year having conditioned us all to expect the worst.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,696
Mad times near my parents- some bright spark posted the online booking link to a local vaccination centre on Facebook yesterday, and for some unknown reason they just started vaccinating anyone who turned up with an appointment, regardless of whether they had been recommended by a doctor or had been prioritised. Needless to say, the centre got a bollocking from on high, and they turned away people who didn't have a doctor's note from today, but plenty of people got to jump the queue.

I don't really blame the people who chanced their arm- you miss every shot you don't take, and the centre was obviously fucking up.
 

Xun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,351
London
I don't know what to expect. My wife has a habit of going to sleep to Ghibli tunes (with overlaid background noise like cicadas or rain). But she's a 'concert' person and I'm wondering if it'll be full of anime fans
That's a good point.

I imagine the audience will be incredibly varied given the wide reach of Ghibli though, but I could be wrong.
 

Deleted member 16516

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,427
Joe Hisaishi in concert sounds great. Hope it goes ahead and MrKlaw and Xun can attend.

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing Hans Zimmer in concert next year.

HansZimmer_RollDate_-950x440-e898d9ed99.jpg
 

Kodama4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,945
Er yes they have though ... multiple reports for both vaccines throughout Feb showed the two main vaccines being used here substantially reduced transmission.

Please do provide sources of your 'substantial' claim? as far i have seen they reduce transmission between 60-80% depending on which Vaccine candidate.

The vaccine prevents transmission, prevents getting the disease in the first place, the need for hospitalisation, and also death so even though some may still get the virus, most wont be hospitalised or die and wont all be in the priority group age to be massively effected.

This is absolutely in-correct, the vaccines do not completely stop transmission or the disease - they are not a 'cure'

The vaccines reduce transmission and reduce severe to moderate disease - but not for everyone.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,315
The vaccines reduce transmission and reduce severe to moderate disease - but not for everyone.
You're not wrong, but it's also worth remembering that these are concurrent forces. So yes, the vaccines may not prevent severe disease in a person, but the fact that the people around them are vaccinated reduces the risk of the virus finding its way to that individual for whom the vaccine did not provide adequate protection.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,344
Please do provide sources of your 'substantial' claim? as far i have seen they reduce transmission between 60-80% depending on which Vaccine candidate.



This is absolutely in-correct, the vaccines do not completely stop transmission or the disease - they are not a 'cure'

The vaccines reduce transmission and reduce severe to moderate disease - but not for everyone.

Sorry. 'Helps prevents'

Happy now?
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,726
Please do provide sources of your 'substantial' claim? as far i have seen they reduce transmission between 60-80% depending on which Vaccine candidate.



This is absolutely in-correct, the vaccines do not completely stop transmission or the disease - they are not a 'cure'

The vaccines reduce transmission and reduce severe to moderate disease - but not for everyone.
This is just being pedantic. No it won't stop transmission for everyone, but if it does for 80% of the population then that reduces the R number to the point the virus can't survive in those that are still vulnerable.
 

Kodama4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,945
This is just being pedantic. No it won't stop transmission for everyone, but if it does for 80% of the population then that reduces the R number to the point the virus can't survive in those that are still vulnerable.

makes no sense...the virus cant survive in people that are still vulnerable? ......
 

Linkified

Member
Dec 24, 2017
1,206
Please do provide sources of your 'substantial' claim? as far i have seen they reduce transmission between 60-80% depending on which Vaccine candidate.



This is absolutely in-correct, the vaccines do not completely stop transmission or the disease - they are not a 'cure'

The vaccines reduce transmission and reduce severe to moderate disease - but not for everyone.

That is substantial though. Plus the AZ initial stuff from the NHS 'Siren' survey only cover the 1st dose not the complete course.
 
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f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,726
makes no sense...the virus cant survive in people that are still vulnerable? ......
If 80% of the people around them aren't then who are they catching it from? Who are they passing it to? That's the whole point of R as a metric, over time the virus is being passed between less and less people and dies out.
 

Kodama4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,945
If 80% of the people around them aren't then who are they catching it from? Who are they passing it to? That's the whole point of R as a metric, over time the virus is being passed between less and less people and dies out.

Ok hear me out a second, hypothetically your saying that 80% of the population receives a vaccination? not all of that 80% are 100% immune/resistant due to vaccines not having 100% efficacy.
Also By your logic you are assuming that coronavirus will eventually be wiped out because of R rates? Nope it's here to stay, just like the flu. We will have breakouts/mass testing etc for a long time.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,382
Ok hear me out a second, hypothetically your saying that 80% of the population receives a vaccination? not all of that 80% are 100% immune/resistant due to vaccines not having 100% efficacy.
Also By your logic you are assuming that coronavirus will eventually be wiped out because of R rates? Nope it's here to stay, just like the flu. We will have breakouts/mass testing etc for a long time.

By definition that's exactly what that means, key word being 'eventually' though. R being below 1 means that on average every person who catches the virus is transmitting it to fewer than 1 other person. Remaining below 1 means it's eventually incapable of reproducing within a population.
 

Jokerman

Member
May 16, 2020
7,082
By definition that's exactly what that means, key word being 'eventually' though. R being below 1 means that on average every person who catches the virus is transmitting it to fewer than 1 other person. Remaining below 1 means it's eventually incapable of reproducing within a population.

You have to keep it below 1 though, and for a long time. It will go above 1 as soon as you encourage more social contact. It wouldn't surprise me if it happens in the next few weeks as schools have been back for a few weeks now.
 

Humidex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,785
GB News have been granted a licence to broadcast by Ofcom. I wonder how they'll cover the pandemic.

"Licensee: All Perspectives Limited" (lol)

ALL PERSPECTIVES LTD people - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ALL PERSPECTIVES LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
So it's Andrew Neil (who TIL is a French citizen) and 2 senior bods from Liberty Global, one of which was the co-founder of what became Ziggo in the Netherlands.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that that's the same Liberty that owns F1...
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,691
Every time I hear about this channel I laugh. A specialist TV channel in 2021. These people are so stuck in the past it's to their own detriment.

Sadly I think the channel will do insanely well, especially given how things are at the moment. All they pretty much have to say is "We're against Political Correctness" and that's potentially 10s of millions of dedicated viewers right off the bat. It's goal is to shift the Overton Window further to the Right more than anything else.

But I'll be pleasantly surprised if the channel does fail.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Sadly I think the channel will do insanely well, especially given how things are at the moment. All they pretty much have to say is "We're against Political Correctness" and that's potentially 10s of millions of dedicated viewers right off the bat. It's goal is to shift the Overton Window further to the Right more than anything else.

But I'll be pleasantly surprised if the channel does fail.
10s of millions is highly unlikely for a dedicated news channel.