Anyone try playing DMCV demo with HDR? If I go To game mode, the settings from the OP mute all the colors, and I cant seem to get It to look as good as Standard.
The sun seems to not change much, but if you watch closely you should see highlights on the street and objects to be a little more pronounced.
This using the last V5.3.2 settings.
Standard is not an accurate reference, as it will clip most highlights and will make most colors (wrongly) glow like a neon.Anyone try playing DMCV demo with HDR? If I go To game mode, the settings from the OP mute all the colors, and I cant seem to get It to look as good as Standard.
Yeah, I know.Hey P4OLO, wanted to thank you for this thread. Kept reading through it late last year (I had a B7).
I actually switched to a C8 on December after realizing that I did CARE too much for dynamic tone mapping and that was never happening on the B7s.
I have to say. Its fantastic. Everything is bright but within the expected ranges (nothing gets crushed).
Standard is not an accurate reference, as it will clip most highlights and will make most colors (wrongly) glow like a neon.
Did you try X1X/TV HDR v5.3.2 settings?
The "Yellow tint" you see it's an eye reaction from a "colder" temperature (another preset/device) to a warmer, but after less than 10 minutes eyes will adapt to it and the tint will be gone. You will then experience reference color accuracy like content creators intended (following the D65 temperature standards).I was using the setting in OP and tried playing KH3 with the SDR settings but it's like W50 which puts a yellow tint over everything. Idk, maybe that's what supposed to look good but It just looks weird to me
Should be the same for 2018 models, yes.Is the W50 colour temp right for gaming on 2018 OLEDs? And if so, why is the pre set HDR gaming mode set to C30. Seems a big difference.
DV Home Cinema tends to clip highlights and does weird things with colors (oversaturation + glowing).I tried the custom DV profile and the highlights are still way too dark. Like SDR kind of dark. Home Cinema is clearly better IMO.
Was playing it today and it seems good using the settings provided here. Dark but to the point I would expect in the unlit underground areas.So any of you guys tried Metro Exodus. Just heard there's no HDR slider, just gamma. Hopefully the game isn't to dark.
Also consider that, as noted by Digital Foundry, the game may have added black crush on OG Xbox One and X1X due to a Dashboard bug that needs to be fixed by MS.Was playing it today and it seems good using the settings provided here. Dark but to the point I would expect in the unlit underground areas.
No, unfortunately when using PC Input you will only get 4:2:0 HDR10 and you won't be able to turn on Dynamic Contrast when using HDR Game.So I should be setting my Xbox to 8Bit and the input label/icon as PC to enable 4:4:4 in SDR? Then it changes into 4:2:2 10Bit in HDR on its own?
Ah okay, I thought dynamic metadata for HDR was when setting dynamic contrast to low not high? At least that's what Rtings has in their review, though I recall hearing that didn't work at all in game mode.No, unfortunately when using PC Input you will only get 4:2:0 HDR10 and you won't be able to turn on Dynamic Contrast when using HDR Game.
Plus, if you try to use HDR Standard there, you will still have higher input lag compared to HDR Game.
Overall, just avoid using PC Input (as it's not worth it just for 4:4:4 SDR) and opt using regular "Game Console" icon + calibrated SDR and HDR Game mode (the latter with High Dynamic Contrast) to have the best balance between accuracy, low input lag and luminance.
Just follow the X1X SDR and HDR v5.3.2 settings in the OP both for Console and TV for best results.
It doesn't work at all in game mode in fact (2017 models).Ah okay, I thought dynamic metadata for HDR was when setting dynamic contrast to low not high? At least that's what Rtings has in their review, though I recall hearing that didn't work at all in game mode.
80 brightness for SDR seems a bit high. Would I get the same color accuracy if I did backlight lower?
80 brightness for SDR seems a bit high. Would I get the same color accuracy if I did backlight lower?
Now it's quite similar to what I've been using lately. Games with proper HDR calibration ingame like AC Odyssey will look close to identical between Game and Technicolor.After playing A LOT of new, additional HDR contents (Games, 4K HDR/Blu-Rays, 4K/HDR Streaming) using HDR Game v5.3.2, I decided it's now time to do a partial step back from High Dynamic Contrast suggestion...
If High DC performed GREAT in many occasion with HDR Game (brighting up noticeable dimmer sequences, especially in particular movies and games' static menus and HUD), it showed too much color artifacts, black crush and/or highlights clipping to be considered universally accurate now.
Therefore, I updated again the HDR Game profile to v5.5:
This provided a consistent, more accurate calibration for an universal, mixed usage of HDR Game profile.
- Going back to Dynamic Contrast: MEDIUM
- Going back to Brightness 50 (no need to raise it outside High DC)
- Going back to Color Gamut: AUTO
- Raising Color value to 60 (to offset a slight color desaturation of Medium DC)
Cheers :)
-P
Done any testing in regards to this?There is a bug with Xbox. It's actually outputting full range RGB when set to standard.
If you are playing in 4K you can just set it to 10bit to bypass this
After playing A LOT of new, additional HDR contents (Games, 4K HDR/Blu-Rays, 4K/HDR Streaming) using HDR Game v5.3.2, I decided it's now time to do a partial step back from High Dynamic Contrast suggestion...
If High DC performed GREAT in many occasion with HDR Game (brighting up noticeable dimmer sequences, especially in particular movies and games' static menus and HUD), it showed too much color artifacts, black crush and/or highlights clipping to be considered universally accurate now.
Therefore, I updated again the HDR Game profile to v5.5:
This provided a consistent, more accurate calibration for an universal, mixed usage of HDR Game profile.
- Going back to Dynamic Contrast: MEDIUM
- Going back to Brightness 50 (no need to raise it outside High DC)
- Going back to Color Gamut: AUTO
- Raising Color value to 60 (to offset a slight color desaturation of Medium DC)
Cheers :)
-P
Indeed, once both TV and Console are setup properly, they are perfectly fine for universal usage so it will all depends on how an HDR content is mastered and how many HDR settings games are providing for the user.Will try this ASAP.
I must say, it really comes down to the game how dim the picture is. I only have minor issues with RDR2 and Spider-Man. AC Odyssey and Metro Exodus shine like stars on my B7.
Been a while since I looked in here, but just wanted to post some interesting recent findings in the interest of knowledge share.
Regarding xbox one x Colour Space setting under Video Fidelity and Overscan. For both The Witcher 2 and Skyrim (SDR titles) if I do not enable PC RGB colour space and set my B7 to High black level you will get black crush. There is no other way around it.
So that led me to explore PC RGB colour space and any negative impact on HDR. I have tried Forza Horizon 4 and both Far Cry's and can confirm the image appears unaffected and looks identical to colour space set as standard. No signs of colour banding and TV reports HDR BT2020 engaged.
I'm not sure how many other SDR games need PC RGB engaged to avoid black crush, but it is a fact that the two above do. If anyone highlights any HDR issues as a result please do let me know, but there aren't any in Forza Horizon 4 or Far Cry 5/New Dawn that I could see. Image looked identical. I'm hoping that means the x1x is engaging HDR independently of what ever the colour space is set to. If I come across any issues I'll update.
Hope that helps. If at the very least anyone wanting to play Skyrim or Witcher 2 without black crush.
Depends what you mean by cheap. HDR? 4K only?I'm not sure if I should ask here but as someone who just got a decent but cheap 4K TV are there any XB1 or PS4 Pro games that stand out as a difference?
x1x: With colour space set on either PC RGB or standard, for Game HDR should still be correctly set to Low black level. Which is correct i.e no difference and/or limited in both scenarios. The only difference is for Game SDR tv mode, where by PC RGB is full and needs the TV set at High black level. Hope that helps clarify.If you have PC RGB enabled on the xbox and start a HDR game, the TV will automatically switch to Black level low. Current TVs don't support full rgb and HDR
That's what I like about the PS4. I leave it on auto and black level on auto too. When I play SDR games both go to full RGB and black level medium, as soon as I launch HDR both switch to RGB Limited and low.
With the Xbox, there is either limited or full. No auto. If you leave it on PC RGB and launch a HDR game, the tv will switch to low black level and I am not sure how the Xbox behaves. Is it switching to limited internally, despite no auto option?
Depends what you mean by cheap. HDR? 4K only?
Main games would be forza horizon 4 and gears 4 for Xbox and horizon zero dawn along with god of war for PS4
I'm not sure if I should ask here but as someone who just got a decent but cheap 4K TV are there any XB1 or PS4 Pro games that stand out as a difference?
Full RGB + High Black level should be used exclusively and only for real PC usage (e.g. replacing a monitor) and only for SDR.Been a while since I looked in here, but just wanted to post some interesting recent findings in the interest of knowledge share.
Regarding xbox one x Colour Space setting under Video Fidelity and Overscan. For both The Witcher 2 and Skyrim (SDR titles) if I do not enable PC RGB colour space and set my B7 to High black level you will get black crush. There is no other way around it.
So that led me to explore PC RGB colour space and any negative impact on HDR. I have tried Forza Horizon 4 and both Far Cry's and can confirm the image appears unaffected and looks identical to colour space set as standard. No signs of colour banding and TV reports HDR BT2020 engaged.
I'm not sure how many other SDR games need PC RGB engaged to avoid black crush, but it is a fact that the two above do. If anyone highlights any HDR issues as a result please do let me know, but there aren't any in Forza Horizon 4 or Far Cry 5/New Dawn that I could see. Image looked identical. I'm hoping that means the x1x is engaging HDR independently of what ever the colour space is set to. If I come across any issues I'll update.
Hope that helps. If at the very least anyone wanting to play Skyrim or Witcher 2 without black crush.
Full RGB + High Black level should be used exclusively and only for real PC usage (e.g. replacing a monitor) and only for SDR.
With a Game Console and for a mixed usage (SDR/HDR/DV contents' switching), ALWAYS use a Standard/Limited Color Space + Low Black Level to avoid clipping and/or wrong HDR reproduction, as the TV will NOT auto-switch between Low/High Black level even if the console will try to do so (and X1X will not by the way). Plus SDR will still look the same, therefore there's no advantage outside 4:4:4 SDR PC usage.
I experimented a lot based on users' feedback, often backtracking on some choices (as you recently saw regarding HDR Game profile for example), but believe me: I did A LOT of test regards to Standard/Full RGB and Low/High Black Level with 2017 LG OLEDs, and I am not so confident that things could change with a new console firmware upgrade, especially considering that TV Black Level settings behaves like it always did, and this won't change anytime soon.I'm already aware of your view. And to date I happily have stuck with that.
However SDR does not look the same though for Skyrim and The Witcher 2. If you leave black level on limited and standard colour space you get black crush. Thats the whole point of my post. Its a fact.
I have only tested HDR lightly, but I have had no black issue level problems when switching to HDR Game mode. Is this confirmed? Because I dont see it and lets not forget the xbox one x has had some graphic driver updates recently. Thats not saying you're wrong, I'm just not experiencing it yet on the titles I've tested.
It would be great at times if you could try and take on board someone else's findings and discuss in a constructive manner. I do find your rigid stance frustrating and unproductive to learning whats going on with different settings at times.
That should be the reason you are not seeing differences then.Thanks P40LO. I appreciate the in depth post. I agree with the games being old and perhaps needing the PC RGB due to simply how they were made. I only started exploring this due to how bad the black crush is in Skyrim with standard colour space.
I have tested again tonight. Started by playing Skyrim for a couple of hours. I then, without turning anything off, switched it to Forza Horizon 4 and I can confirm that there are no issues with the TV correctly engaging HDR and switching to Low Black level, having just been in High Black level for SDR Skyrim.
I dont dispute your testing, nor can I tell you I wont discover issues further down the road with other games. However today, right now I'm just not getting any issues at all between the two black level SDR/HDR game modes with PC RGB set as the colour space. I will let you know if I get issues. For now I am getting the best of both worlds though. No black crush on older games and properly functioning HDR with no white clipping or black issues i.e identical image as before in every way.
I wouldnt think it make any difference. However I should note I play with DC off and my x1x passes through a mid/high end Yamaha AVR (with AVR video processing disabled). And the AVR is connected to HDMI 2 on the B7.
I don't have the game, but I read it's the opposite: COD WWII has just a bad HDR implementation that looks bland compared to real HDR game showcases as Forza Horizon 4, AC Origins/Odyssey, Gears 4, Rise/Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Battlefield 1/VP40L0 any tips for HDR settings in COD WWII? It just looks a little washed out when I follow the on screen settings for black and white luminance (barely visible, not visible logos etc) I had heard this was supposed to be a showcase HDR title but so far its been very underwhelming compared to say AC Odyssey and Horizon 4.
Unfortunately yes, if you're using the webOS Netflix app, as DV was dimmed for some reason after the 5.85.xx firmware.Ever since changing the OLED backlight back down to 50 in Dolby Vision (Netflix) , all content looks extremely dark.
Yes it looks less washed out than before, but the overall image is just very very dark/ pale and hard watch at times, even in pitch black room.
During the day, DV has just become plain unwatchable.
Is this normal?
Unfortunately yes, if you're using the webOS Netflix app, as DV was dimmed for some reason after the 5.85.xx firmware.
If you use the X1X Netflix app, with same DV Cinema settings, the PQ is super bright and good as before.
For webOS Netflix app only you can workaround the dimming using "DV Home Cinema" profile instead of Cinema, this until a new firmware will fix the webOS DV Cinema profile.Unfortunately I don't have a X1X, do we just deal with this dim image in the meantime until a potential fix comes along?, or are there any recommended settings to make the image brighter without washing out everything?
Unfortunately yes, if you're using the webOS Netflix app, as DV was dimmed for some reason after the 5.85.xx firmware.
If you use the X1X Netflix app, with same DV Cinema settings, the PQ is super bright and good as before.
I don't know for sure if it affects also 2018 sets, but if you are using Dolby Vision through HDMI (with any device capable of DV output as X1X or also Apple TV as you said), you won't have any issue, and everything will be the same as always.Is this only on the 2017 OLEDs? I don't think I've had dim Dolby Vision issues on my C8.
(I mostly use the Apple TV 4k Netflix app so that might be why, but I don't remember thinking it was dim the times I used the WebOS app tho)
For webOS Netflix app only you can workaround the dimming using "DV Home Cinema" profile instead of Cinema, this until a new firmware will fix the webOS DV Cinema profile.
For DV Home Cinema profile you can leave everything default, except disabling all Noise Reductions and set TruMotion to 0,0
My settings are not "default", therefore I meant the LG default values of DV Home Cinema.Everything default meaning follow the settings you have provided for DV, or default settings on a Home Cinema profile on the tv itself?
Default on TV the makes the image look very "blue" and very different to your other settings.