WALLACE: OK. OK but -- and here's the question. In a general election, where you're going to need the support, not just of liberal, progressive, left wing Democrats, but you're also going to need the support of independents, even conceivably some moderate Republicans, how do you overcome, not the communist label but the socialist label, which -- which Joe Biden said, not Donald Trump.
SANDERS: OK. Right. Right. That's fair enough, Chris, and I -- I want to make two points on that.
Number one, in many respects -- in many respects, we are a socialist society today. we have a huge budget. It puts money into all areas.
Now, Donald Trump, before he was president, as a private business person, he received $800 million in tax breaks and subsidies to build luxury housing in New York. Now, what does that mean when the government gives you $800 million in tax breaks and subsidies? The fossil fuel industry, whose produce happens to be destroying our planet right now, it's seen tens and tens of billions of dollars in tax breaks and subsidies. So does the pharmaceutical industry.
The difference between my socialism and Trump's socialism is, I believe the government should help working families, not billionaires. So I believe that health care is a human right. I believe we should raise the minimum wage to a living wage of $15 an hour. I believe, in fact, that the rich must start paying their fair share of taxes when you have massive levels of income and wealth inequality.