Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%
  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%

  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
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Velg

Member
Jan 6, 2018
498
I guess I'll jump in and answer too, mostly because Warren's been my #1 throughout the race, because I still believe that, if magically granted the Oval Office, she'd be the best executive, but good lord I've met literal toddlers -- and I don't mean Donald Trump -- with savvier political instincts than her. Blame the Hillary castoffs all you want, but a candidate must be held accountable for the actions of her campaign, even if she's not personally responsible for them.

Bernie's my #2 right now, but I'm afraid that he'd be among the most feckless Presidents. I like most, but not all, of his ideas. And I'm not talking about lauding Castro or anything that may have electoral play, I'm talking about guns, nuclear, questionable hiring practices, and sentiments on protectionism and opposition to all free trade agreements; and I worry about what he'd do about defense.

Strangely, I agree with Bernie on most specific foreign policy issues, and I appreciate that he was one of the first to call for deescalation during the Iran crisis, but... we still need an upgraded Navy and presence in allied countries to deter aggression. I think he's there, but I'd like to see how he views NATO in 2030, for instance.

I've donated to Bernie. I will probably donate more. But I view him as a party head, not a chief executive. He's proved me wrong before, and I'm happy to be proved wrong more.

Of the remaining tier, I'm fine with either Biden or Amy*. Pete continues to disappoint me, but maybe self-reflection and actual experience can forge him into a greater force for good. And I think he'll be a useful surrogate. (*Amy isn't viable, so she's not worth discussing.)

What do I personally care about? I divide that into two camps -- stuff that a POTUS can do unilaterally vs. stuff that takes Congress. As much as I'd want something like gun reforms or reparations (because the current system is basically like playing against other countries in FIFA with only the white dudes on your team using booster packs, to set aside the moral imperative issues)...

I think I want a charismatic POTUS who can affect down-ballot races positively (so I guess that's Bernie?) along with a VP that runs day-to-day business.

Note: In my mind, that VP is someone who has significant executive experience leading bureaucracies through crises. So it's more of a Carmen Yulin Cruz type rather than, I don't know, Stacey Abrams.

Thank you for the response. I could totally understand someone agreeing with Sanders on policy but not being sure of his ability to actually lead.

Glad everyone is at least united on #NeverPete hah! Here's hoping Warren can make it through the next few weeks. I've only taken notice of Warren recently but I have no doubt she could take on Trump. Better than Bernie perhaps.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I don't see much of a difference legislatively from the Bernie or Biden. So if that's the case, why would I support someone I don't particularly like?
I'd like to build on this hypothetical even if its not targeted at me. Aside from foreign policy, as sphagnum mentioned, Bernie would have energizing effects on the youth left in America and continue the leftward momentum that started with OWS and found one of its outlets in AOC. I want more movements like OWS and leaders like AOC and I think a Bernie presidency would deliver both those things. A Biden presidency would have the exact opposite effect of dampening young leftism. A Pete presidency would totally derail it and send it down the track to respectability politics.

A lame duck Bernie presidency is a very different animal from a lame duck Biden presidency.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,434
DOing a bit? Coming out as a republican on a forum like this gets more 20 quotes in an hr. Getting bashed over and over and over again.

I'm sure coming out as a Republican was very difficult for you. You know, if it's taxing on your mental health, you should probably vote for politicians that will enact universal health care.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,974
Foreign policy, for one.
What foreign policy am I pushing for? 'Someday At Christmas' version of there'll be no wars and men won't be boys?


I'd like to build on this hypothetical even if its not targeted at me. Aside from foreign policy, as sphagnum mentioned, Bernie would have energizing effects on the youth left in America and continue the leftward momentum that started with OWS and found one of its outlets in AOC. I want more movements like OWS and leaders like AOC and I think a Bernie presidency would deliver both those things. A Biden presidency would have the exact opposite effect of dampening young leftism. A Pete presidency would totally derail it and send it down the track to respectability politics.

A lame duck Bernie presidency is a very different animal from a lame duck Biden presidency.
You know as a millennial, what will destroy that energy? Pragmatism that at the end the movement did not cause a political revolution and he was essentially a generic D presidency.

Less pointless interventions and extrajudicial killings for one. Palestinians being recognized as human beings deserving of human rights as another.
So in line with most Democratic candidates foreign policy agendas.
 
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Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
Just stop, what is your hourly wage? I'd imagine it'd be cut in half if you weren't in a union
Nah. My hourly wage is 44/hr. When I was non union I actually made more money. Because I did prevailing wage work mostly. In Sacramento where I live prevailing wage is 85/hr right now. But non union private I made 34/hr.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
DOing a bit? Coming out as a republican on a forum like this gets more 20 quotes in an hr. Getting bashed over and over and over again.
I'm sorry your life is hard. Imagine how much harder it would be if you were working multiple jobs that still weren't enough to support your family and you had people arguing that it was justified!
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
qK0ZxNb.jpeg


Actual picture of Comrade Sanders storming Washington, D.C., January, 2021.
Excellent Comrade! The Glorious Mother Russia will soon sound out across the Americas!
-Bernie Sanders​
 

Kayla

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,316
This was an incredible victory for Biden.
Sure. Let me tell you about myself. Im 25, married, 3 kids. I'm a union hvac worker in California. Make 90k a year taxable income. Wife has to stay home with the kiddos. So I guess I could be considered middle class. But living in California 90k with house of 5 probably puts be on the bottom of middle class. In aiddition to my killer union retirement I personally stock trade through my IRA's. I plan on retiring by 50 hopefully sooner.

1) I don't believe in illegal immigrantion. Im all for LEGAL immigrantion. Heck they could very well double their legal immigrants and I'd be happy with that. But I don't think someone should just be able to come over without repercussions. I have plenty of friends of immigranted from the Ukraine in the early 90's, as well as friends from Asia who immigrated. Do it the right way or not at all.
2) I don't believe in a 20$/hr minimum wage. I think minimum wage isn't designed to be a living wage. It's designed to be a starting wage. It's for young people/people drawing social security. And it's there to start trainees. I think there are plenty of jobs that are hard out there that pay more. But people don't want them. Lots of work in construction but no one wants to do it. I also don't think tipped workers should make 20/hr. It's crazy that a waitress can make 15/hr in tips that arnt taxed and then complain that they want 20/hr. Why on earth should I or millions of other people who work so damn hard doing nasty dirty work continue to do it when we could make just as much doing easy, gravy work. I'm not heartless either I want everyone to be able to feed their family's but I don't buy into this thinking that there isn't better paying jobs out there. There are but they either are hard physically/mentally/ or require a lot of training. Heck my job had a 5 year apprenticeship where pay was really bad in the beginning.
3) I believe in free markets. I don't think billionaires are necessarily bad people. They mostly became rich by selling something. Which means citizens had to willingly give them money. Which means normal everyday citizens paid them to make their lives better.
4) I don't believe in socialism. I thinks it's crippled every country that adopted it. Denmark imo isn't one. I mean hello don't they have a free market.
5) I believe in less government not more. Government is bloated. They do everything for more. Wasteful.
6) abortion. I believe in "my body my rights". But when the baby can feel pain I think they now have rights. So I'm fine with aborting till around around 14-16 weeks. My baby was born at 22 weeks and I think that's way too pay to abort. If you get rapped the government should give free pregnancy tests/ultrasounds so to detect the baby before the cut off date for abortions. Then they should pay for it ONLY if rapped.
7) I don't believe in free handouts. I believe in hard work. This one is big.
8) I don't think college should be free. I'm 25 so I know tons of young people who went to/going to college. I a huge amount just do it to party/not work. They spin aimlessly with no major or major in a fantasy area that won't get hem employeed. I don't want to pay for that.
9) free speech. I shouldn't be forced to use pronouns though I absolutely would if someone asked.
10) guns. I believe in the second amendment. I don't believe in gun confiscation. I think that would result in law abiding citizens turning in their guns and criminals not. A CRIMINAL by definition is someone who doesn't follow the law.
11) climate change. I think our efforts should be to focus on carbon capture not zero emissions. Our country is small Co2 producer when considering the whole world. Develop the tech for the whole world to use

I'm not a racist. I think poor people should be able to get healthcare, especially poor children. I'm not sexist. I'm a working class American who loves loves his country. 8 years ago I considered myself a moderate. With beliefs like those I was but now I'm probably considered a far righter.

At my core I believe in capitalism.

People like you actually exist? I just laugh at how stupid people like you are! This is the South Park demographic
 

Bad_Boy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Hudsoniscool. I commend you for being honest. Resetera is obviously very liberal, so it takes something to share that here.

That said, I do hope you have thick skin and the will to learn more outside of your worldview. Maybe with more empathy as well.
 
SC Prediction Wrapup, next thread announcement
OP
OP
Poodlestrike

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,527
ZfKMJO6.png


Joe Biden's campaign has risen from the grave! Apologies to the 57%, but it seems your energy did not reach Bernie as Biden's SC gambit seems to have, at the very least, resulted in a hell of a performance in South Carolina. If that translates forward to Super Tuesday remains to be seen. For now, to the 585 people who looked at the polls and went "yeah the guy polling first is probably going to win", come collect your prize!

Next month's primary OT will be going up in 8 minutes! As of this post, this thread picked up 2.3 MILLION views and 35k contributions of varying value.

The March OT will be going up promptly at Midnight, EST, so in... 5 minutes.
 

Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,184
Grade A reponse here. I bootstraped my way up by work ethic btw. I trade stocks through my Roth IRAthat I fund with my taxed income. This makes me a peice of shit?

You know I used to think I was a republican by business policy but a dem on social issues. Idk anymore. What happened to the left being the tolerant ones?
DOing a bit? Coming out as a republican on a forum like this gets more 20 quotes in an hr. Getting bashed over and over and over again.
To be fair, you make shit arguments.

I have contentious opinions a good bit on some message boards, and aside from the heavy handed mod that I can't beat, I hold my own because I try to come to the table with defensible positions, not emotionally derived gobbledygook about the sanctity of "free markets" and how great it is to be in a union while promoting the antithesis to their continued existence without any self awareness.
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,781
I'd like to build on this hypothetical even if its not targeted at me. Aside from foreign policy, as sphagnum mentioned, Bernie would have energizing effects on the youth left in America and continue the leftward momentum that started with OWS and found one of its outlets in AOC. I want more movements like OWS and leaders like AOC and I think a Bernie presidency would deliver both those things. A Biden presidency would have the exact opposite effect of dampening young leftism. A Pete presidency would totally derail it and send it down the track to respectability politics.

A lame duck Bernie presidency is a very different animal from a lame duck Biden presidency.

I'd like to see any evidence of this supposed left-wing surge among the youth in actual turnout before we act like Bernie has built some organizational army.

Plus, even if he does and has, Republican Senator's could give two fucks about a bunch of voters, largely from blue states, or from the liberal urban centers of red states that they happily shit on while winning elections. Your average Republican Senator would love to see a pissed off kids protesting them, because their voter base hates pissed off lazy entitled kids who just want free stuff.

Nah. My hourly wage is 44/hr. When I was non union I actually made more money. Because I did prevailing wage work mostly. In Sacramento where I live prevailing wage is 85/hr right now. But non union private I made 34/hr.

Have you thought, that in fact, part of the reason that non-union pay is so high is because unions like yours have worked to move pay up that non-union pay has to compete. Also, the prevailing wage exists because of union pressure, so politicians couldn't undercut them.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
What foreign policy am I pushing for? 'Someday At Christmas' version of there'll be no wars and men won't be boys?


QUOTE="samoyed, post: 29511410, member: 9556"]
I'd like to build on this hypothetical even if its not targeted at me. Aside from foreign policy, as sphagnum mentioned, Bernie would have energizing effects on the youth left in America and continue the leftward momentum that started with OWS and found one of its outlets in AOC. I want more movements like OWS and leaders like AOC and I think a Bernie presidency would deliver both those things. A Biden presidency would have the exact opposite effect of dampening young leftism. A Pete presidency would totally derail it and send it down the track to respectability politics.

A lame duck Bernie presidency is a very different animal from a lame duck Biden presidency.
You know as a millennial, what will destroy that energy? Pragmatism that at the end the movement did not cause a political revolution and he was essentially a generic D presidency.
[/QUOTE]
Why are you being so glib about the extrajudicial killings of children?
 

eKongDiddy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,521
Beach City
I would love to pick your brain to understand you being so passionate about Bernie Sanders but would vote or have voted for a Republican at one point in time. What changed for you?

For me personally, I got out of a church that was limiting my experiences in the world. They had me so scared of shit, I thought Trump was going to be better than Hillary because of "Christian persecution". I finally became "woke" to the shit that was going on around my community. I finally saw what it was like to not have money for health insurance or to go to the doctor (That was for myself and family members). I believe that it is a human right for all Americans now. I want legalized marijuana and he has made promises to legalize it day one. I also have family members in prison and want a major prison reform. I also have started paying more attention to Climate Change and believe we need people in office who are ready to combat it! Education is also important and I believe debt relief and cheaper/free education would improve our country tremendously! I want a higher minimum wage because I'm tired of stressing about the cost of living.

I've never been passionate about politics, but ever since that impeachment sham, I've become a little radicalized and started donating to him. I believe he is the most honest person who is running right now. He also has made me realize the power of us working class people and I want to see changes! I'm 23 and I feel like it's time for our generation to take charge of our country and shape it to how we want it!

In my opinion, we can get back the passion we had of change, or we can keep letting these corporate politicians to keep making the rules for us. I still have a lot of proper around me saying healthcare for all is unachievable even though recent studies show it could save us money! Lastly, I think the inequality gap is just too out of control!

 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,360
Like I told the other poster slick, the contention here is not liberal vs moderate, it's boring moderate.
And are you the one that we should look to to determine whether or not someone is "boring?" Liberals would've found both Clinton and Obama as "boring moderates" since they weren't advocating radical changes to the country overnight. Besides, "boring moderates" represent about 99% of the Democrats in congress and they've pushed through some decent policies in the last 20 years.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
Hudsoniscool. I commend you for being honest. Resetera is obviously very liberal, so it takes something to share that here.

That said, I do hope you have thick skin and the will to learn more outside of your worldview. Maybe with more empathy as well.
Thank you.

I do have empathy. But I just figure if I can pull myself out of minimum wage washing dishes. Living on my own from 16. Father in prison. Mother a suicidal drug addict.
If I can do that. I feel most of the others people who started where I did could as well if they put their mind and body to it.
 

Captjohnboyd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,569
I'd love to meet these waiters getting paid $15hr. What fucking world does he live in?
Yeah I knew people that worked in fine dining that made a pretty good livable wage but it's basically a trade to them. You don't just start out working in fine dining. It's almost an entirely different thing compared to the vast majority of serving jobs out there.
I am an assistant manager but I also serve still. On the whole the service industry is a slog and vastly unfair for most of the people in it but it is possible to make good money doing it. I average between $25-$60 an hour most nights and you can do that pretty easily if you've made a career out of it and know your shit. It's taken me a long time to have the food and wine knowledge necessary to be able to work at a nice enough place where that's possible though. It's also city dependent. No one in the middle of nowhere Idaho is making $60 an hour working at even the areas nicest restaurant. It's places like the hotels, and chains that really drive down the wages. Support staff (dish, bussers, hosts, etc) gets paid garbage and usually doesn't have a chance to move on to the floor and of course kitchen staff gets worked to death for $12-20 an hour
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,865
Warren...I'm pretty disappointed even though I recognize that this is perhaps the only rope she can hold on to now.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,434
Thank you.

I do have empathy. But I just figure if I can pull myself out of minimum wage washing dishes. Living on my own from 16. Father in prison. Mother a suicidal drug addict.
If I can do that. I feel most of the others people who started where I did could as well if they put their mind and body to it.

They literally could not. Do you think poor, homeless, and sick people are all just lazy?
 

discotheque

Member
Dec 23, 2019
3,862
I miss 2019 Warren :(

2020 Warren is a suicide cult leader trying to rules-lawyer their way into the nomination and lose badly to Trump.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I'd like to see any evidence of this supposed left-wing surge among the youth in actual turnout before we act like Bernie has built some organizational army.
Your only metric of political success seems to be voting turn out and in that sense it has not been as efficacious as I would've liked, but there does seem to be a qualitative difference in Dem politics in '08, '16, and '20 and I attribute some part of it to my perceived cultural left-shift. Sanders is both a product of this left-shift and also a catalyst for it. There are more avenues of societal change than just electoral politics.
 

Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,184
I'll say this about Tuesday. It'll be put up or shut up for the youth vote on ST for Bernie.
How?

It's weird how only Bernie is being held to certain standards.

he's in the lead. It's put up or shut up time for his opposition, because as of now, it's his to lose, and increasingly it looks like the way that would happen is by a brokered convention that hands the election to Trump.
 
Mar 9, 2018
3,766
Helping Bernie? She needs a plan for that. It's not personal. It's just, as the British incorrectly say, "maths". Warren needs to drop out and endorse Bernie Sanders because the "maths" ARE/IS? not in her favor/FAVOUR?.
 

Addie

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
DFW
Since this thread is gonna die, let me add a RIP for our dearly electorally departed friend Beto.

I still miss you, man.
 

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,356
There's a fucking lot to unpack here, but I want to hit on these 3 points:

7) I don't believe in free handouts. I believe in hard work. This one is big.
What do you define as a "free handout"? My Republican family members use this to describe anything from food stamps to free/subsidized healthcare, despite the fact that some of them themselves would end up benefiting from things like SNAP or subsidized insurance from the ACA, but are too proud (stupid) to take them and would rather struggle than take accept any help.

9) free speech. I shouldn't be forced to use pronouns though I absolutely would if someone asked.
I don't get what you're trying to say here. You want to be able to use incorrect pronouns in regards to a person, but you won't do it if they ask you not to? Does them asking you not to misgender them somehow not make it forced in your mind? Or do you see it as them forcing you to do it, and resent them for asking you to respect then as another human being?

11) climate change. I think our efforts should be to focus on carbon capture not zero emissions. Our country is small Co2 producer when considering the whole world. Develop the tech for the whole world to use
The US is still number 2 in regards to carbon emissions. Of course that's going to seem small in comparison to the rest of the world, but then you could say the same in regards to China's emissions, who looks small when you compare them to the emissions from the rest of the world. And why does it have to be mutually exclusive? Why can't we work towards both zero emissions and carbon capture?
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
I'd like to see any evidence of this supposed left-wing surge among the youth in actual turnout before we act like Bernie has built some organizational army.

Plus, even if he does and has, Republican Senator's could give two fucks about a bunch of voters, largely from blue states, or from the liberal urban centers of red states that they happily shit on while winning elections. Your average Republican Senator would love to see a pissed off kids protesting them, because their voter base hates pissed off lazy entitled kids who just want free stuff.



Have you thought, that in fact, part of the reason that non-union pay is so high is because unions like yours have worked to move pay up that non-union pay has to compete. Also, the prevailing wage exists because of union pressure, so politicians couldn't undercut them.
Your right. And at the end of the day I'm union. But it's not perfect. That's all I was saying.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
For me personally, I got out of a church that was limiting my experiences in the world. They had me so scared of shit, I thought Trump was going to be better than Hillary because of "Christian persecution". I finally became "woke" to the shit that was going on around my community. I finally saw what it was like to not have money for health insurance or to go to the doctor (That was for myself and family members). I believe that it is a human right for all Americans now. I want legalized marijuana and he has made promises to legalize it day one. I also have family members in prison and want a major prison reform. I also have started paying more attention to Climate Change and believe we need people in office who are ready to combat it! Education is also important and I believe debt relief and cheaper/free education would improve our country tremendously! I want a higher minimum wage because I'm tired of stressing about the cost of living.

I've never been passionate about politics, but ever since that impeachment sham, I've become a little radicalized and started donating to him. I believe he is the most honest person who is running right now. He also has made me realize the power of us working class people and I want to see changes! I'm 23 and I feel like it's time for our generation to take charge of our country and shape it to how we want it!

Really good to read your perspective! It must be tough if you have family members still in a church. I dated a former Mormon and for her it caused some rifts with her family.

I just hope, whatever the results of the primaries and election that you continue to push for these policies. The US needs young people like yourself pushing for them!
 
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