The thing that always impressed me about Xenogears was its pacing. Felt like a non-stop, shocking, emotional rollercoaster.
Xenogears: A game I can’t shake
- Thread starter NattyBo
- Start date
OP
OP
Yes and it's extremely OP with Emeralda and Elly, especially if you stack 'em.
Yeah that's fair. For what it's worth, I don't particularly enjoy most Square RPG combat from that era. It's mostly just a flowchart of "If low on health, heal, otherwise use most powerful attack you can afford."
OP
OP
Also I think a lot of people confuse homages in Xenogear for aping.
For example, the obvious Power Rangers homage that is the Elements and their Gear combining. That is so firmly tongue in cheek yet Ive seen people use it as a trope against the game..
For example, the obvious Power Rangers homage that is the Elements and their Gear combining. That is so firmly tongue in cheek yet Ive seen people use it as a trope against the game..
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I find the way it handles religion clumsy at best, and embarassing at worst. As another posted noted, it crucifies the cast members for shock value and comes off laughable in the process. It borrows plot points wholesale from better works and if you've read them (SOYLENT GREEN!) you see the plot twists coming from a mile away.
It's less a "story" than it is a confused jumble of terms ripped from the Gnosticism wikipedia page without care for whether or how those terms make sense. This is not a coherent narrative, it is badly in need of an editor, and yes there are science fiction games that predate it on console and PC that do a better job.
Likewise I didn't use a guide back in the days. I eventually navigated successfully, but have no idea what I'm doing. I only know I need to make a path, but without knowing clearly where I am and a clear picture of what has already been done, I only went about flipping stuffs till all things just happened to be in the right place.
I referred to a guide on 2nd playthrough, and am convinced it is something I can never solve by myself with a clear picture of what I am doing, so I have always been using a guide just for the final dungeon in all subsequent playthroughs.
OP
OP
Other than using western religious terms very liberally, and the aforementioned cruxifixction (which I consider part of the former), how does it handle religion clumsily?
As I put in another post, I consider the Soylent system an homage, a lot like the Elements Power Ranger Gear.
I still think the core story -
An interdimensional entity powering a fucking bio mechanical space weapon capable of destroying planets and their almost eternal struggle, and the genesis of humanity being a simple part of that.. In a way, it's the oldest story in the world, but this interpretation is very novel.
Seems a bit harsh. I'll agree it's not particularly deep (although I think you can pull some nice themes away from it), but I still think it's very engaging. Slowly learning the mechanisms at play in the world and what the characters' roles in the story is was fantastic, especially for a PlayStation 1 game. I particularly love the introduction cutscene and how it's seemingly unrelated to the story until you find out a few dozen hours in, it's great at slowly pulling away the curtain in that way.
OP
OP
It's funny, after I posted it I got a sense of deja vu and found an old GAF post of myself saying the same thing 8 years ago. I was less diplomatic about the game's shortcomings then.
I don't think it's "bad" per se. It was "fine" when I played it, though I will continue to insist that the narrative is a mess. In hindsight after having read much better fiction it is clear that it's really a product of its time. If anything I will say that the scope of what the devs wanted to do was really too ambitious for the game- and this is reflected in the rushed disc 2, and hinted at but unexplored prior lifetimes for our protagonists.
With an editor and a better budget the game could have turned out to be more than it is.
I finally played through the game for the first time earlier this year and its now easily one of my favorite rpgs. I could easily see see myself paying full price for the game if it had released today and being happy with my purchase. I can only imagine going crazy waiting for a sequel if I had played it back then it was new and seeing that final screen. Despite hearing stories about disc 2 for years it was still pretty surprising when I finally got to that point in the game, even so I still loved every minute of it.
OP
OP
I can't replay it unless I really want to because the text speed was as fast as snail... : /
I know there was a code/mod to make all texts appear instantly, though.
I know there was a code/mod to make all texts appear instantly, though.
Xenogears is absolutely one of the most memorable JRPGs. Everything about the story and how it comes together is just magic. It's really unfortunate that the translation is rubish. I would love to see someone get another shot at it.
I just find the game an absolute chore to play. I can to this day replay Chrono Cross since it's a much tighter experience and has a similarly bonkers story to uncover.
I just find the game an absolute chore to play. I can to this day replay Chrono Cross since it's a much tighter experience and has a similarly bonkers story to uncover.
Sadly I couldn't get into it. It didn't age that well tbh. I'd wish I would have played it when it was new.
I loved Xenosaga though. Fascinating stuff.
I loved Xenosaga though. Fascinating stuff.
One of my favorite games too, and easily up there with the most memorable ones.
Yeah, I loved the story/characters and there were so many big events and moments packed into the story that it feels pretty non-stop, and it's always sucked me in as the secrets of the story begin to unfold.
Xenosaga was great too.
This game is why I couldn't get super into Xenoblade. I still enjoyed it a lot, but Gears was just on another level to me.
I think Takahashi and the story/scenario writers in his team excel at that. Building a mystery, which just gets more and more intriguing as you go further in game. Then you reach a point where you start to unravel the mystery step by step with some pretty crazy plot twists.
I think this and the story themes are the reasons is why the Xeno games are my favourite jrpgs. They are all pretty similar in this regard. (Can't talk about Xenosaga as a whole yet. I'm currently playing through the trilogy and reached disc 2 of episode 2)
Yeah it's a great build raising questions and teasing answers and then as you start piecing things together as more things get revealed and detailed. Instead of things getting less interesting as you dig in and learn more a lot of their work tends to pull off getting even more interesting as they as happen, since there are often so many details they've put in to discover, which generally makes it feel like they don't need to postpone the twists since they've got so many layers to their mysteries for you to still find out about after each of them.
I found that the game is best paced up to the start of Kislev and surprisingly, most of disc 2. There wouldn't be as high a clear rate if the game was 120 hours instead of 70. Disc 2 being more story focused really helped the game IMO.
OP
OP
OP
OP
I literally just woke up from a dream where Xenogears 2 collaboration news dropped.
cruel world...
cruel world...
Yeah, I loved this game when I was younger, then I played it again like 10 years later and I still considered it my favorite game of all time. I haven't played it for another 10 years now, so maybe I should dig out my copy again to see if my opinion has changed as I've grown older.
And yes, Xenogears is kind of pretentious, tropey and ambitious as hell but I always have a soft spot for games that have a vision and go for it 110 %. I had hopes for the Xenosaga trilogy, it was ok, but unfortunately didn't come close I feel. And the Xenoblade games, while good, are different kinds of games altogether I feel.
And yes, Xenogears is kind of pretentious, tropey and ambitious as hell but I always have a soft spot for games that have a vision and go for it 110 %. I had hopes for the Xenosaga trilogy, it was ok, but unfortunately didn't come close I feel. And the Xenoblade games, while good, are different kinds of games altogether I feel.
Thank you. But it's not available in my region. There might be threads about Vita and emulation though, I'll begin with searching Era. :D
One of my favorite games of all time. Xenosaga and the xenoblade games can't hold a candle to this one. It really does stick with you.
Xenoblade is a freaking disgrace compared to Xenogears, especially the character design. It's really hard to accept that the two IPs were directed by the same person.
I'm beating a dead horse when I say this but Square Enix could easily remake Xenogears with their HD-2D style used in Octopath Traveler. Of course, the visual style would be more modified to be thematically appropriate to Xenogears but my point still stands.
Nintendo and Monolith Soft don't even have to be involved with the hypothetical remake because the copyright is solely with Square Enix. The only major adjustments required is to make Disk 2 more of a playable experience.
Elly, Fei, Citan, and Karellen are highly complex, well-written characters. It's hard to find JRPGs with as much thought put into their writing and development as those.
The crucifixion part is weird, yeah.
This is where I'm at as well, I just couldn't bother with it because all I really want is something more akin to Xenogears. Right now I just want a PS4/PS5 version so I can replay it even though I replayed it last year.
I wish I played this when it was new. As a huge fan of the Xenoblade games I gave this five separate attempts on PSP/Vita. Just couldn't get into it. :(
Shadowrun SNES (1994)
I have no Mouth and I Must Scream (PC- 1995)
Fallout (PC- 1997)
Fallout 2 (PC- 1998)
System Shock (PC- 1994)
Snatcher (Sega CD- 1994)
Half Life (PC- 1998)
Metal Gear Solid (PS1- 1998)
Beneath a Steel Sky (PC-1994)
Cyberia (PS1- 1996)
Off the top of my head. There are a LOT of point and click PC adventure games that fall into this category as well but they were never really my thing.
I've always wanted to go back and play this bud sadly trying to find a Vita this day and age makes me nervous. I never know the condition of these used things online, and no one has them in store anymore.
Really sucks, wish they'd release it on PC.
Really sucks, wish they'd release it on PC.
OP
OP
Metal Gear Solid does not predate Xenogears, and neither does Fallout 2.
I think that whole list is a bit of a stretch. Xenogears lifts stuff from a lot of media, but mostly old science fiction books and movies, not other games.
Both 1998, in development at the same time. And I didn't say it "lifted stuff from games" I said there are games that predate it (which I consider games released the same year to be) that do a better job of telling Sci-Fi narratives without being a mess as Xenogears is. ALL of that list fits the bill.
And yeah, ALL of those borrow heavily from sci fi books and movies and many are shameless about it- the exception being IHNMAIMS which was developed alongside the author of the original short story.
Half-Life and System Shock might have less tropes, but the scope of their stories is minimal comparatively, which means they don't explore nearly as many themes nearly as much.
I'll have to look at some of the unknowns there like Beneath a Steel Sky and Cyberia though.
"telling a good sci fi story" is often more than seeing how many themes you can pop in the game like a blender. In fact that's the biggest thing wrong with Xenogears. It tries to fit too many concepts into the game, does a good job of integrating none of them and comes off worse for it as a result.
Yes, but I want to see a heavy exploration of these themes, something that I'll continue to think about for weeks, months, years.
And Xenogears handles existentialism well as far as I'm concerned. You disagree, but that's just my take.