Seems like first desecnent uses the chara but made it korean armor style from Warframe(My friend play warframe and say it's similiar, and compare pic)
Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."
- Thread starter Persephone
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Big eyes, porcelain-white skin, v-line face, heart-shaped lips, slim nose... the beauty standards of East Asia today. When you look at Koei Tecmo games or Chinese 3D games you will see the same thing
really the beauty standards everywhere, and how poorly games generally reflect women is a symptom of that.
I'm making a game with a small team, in a genre that a lot of the time gets quite male-gaze-y, so we're making an effort to have a nice diverse cast of characters with like, respectable designs.
e.g., our "main" character:
Our character designer is getting a little worried that the lack of a "booby lady" (her words, not mine) is hurting our game's marketing. I'm inclined to agree, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea, and it would kind of stick out from our other characters a bit. So I guess I'm wondering how to navigate the situation. Our character designer is a woman and I'm not, so I don't want to hop on my high horse about it for obvious reasons, but there surely must be a way to do this tastefully? I guess, are they any examples anyone can share of "tasteful" or at least not super male-gaze-y "booby ladies"? Is that possible, or is the entire concept of "booby lady" for marketing inherently a folly?
They are supposed to look east asian, but it's been kind of hard to do that with the anime-ish style, interestingly
e.g., our "main" character:
Our character designer is getting a little worried that the lack of a "booby lady" (her words, not mine) is hurting our game's marketing. I'm inclined to agree, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea, and it would kind of stick out from our other characters a bit. So I guess I'm wondering how to navigate the situation. Our character designer is a woman and I'm not, so I don't want to hop on my high horse about it for obvious reasons, but there surely must be a way to do this tastefully? I guess, are they any examples anyone can share of "tasteful" or at least not super male-gaze-y "booby ladies"? Is that possible, or is the entire concept of "booby lady" for marketing inherently a folly?
I would like to apologize to the people in this thread:
Context:
On June 29, I opened this thread to page 408. There, I saw post #20,363 by TheEchosOfTheCyborg about Gardenia's new outfit in Pokemon Masters. It included a hidden content box. Having liked many of the outfits in that game, I wanted to know what else TheEchosOfTheCyborg had to say in the hidden box.
At the time, I was not aware of the serious discussions which had occurred in the previous pages in this thread; page 408 does not include any of this discussion in the clear. I was not interested in the other hidden posts on page 408 prior to my post, because there was no non-hidden context accompanying them.
What I did:
I wrote a non-contributing post #20,374 solely in order to see the hidden content in TheEchosOfTheCyborg 's post. I naively wrote the post in a way that indicated that I wanted to see hidden posts in the rest of the thread too, even though I was only interested in TheEchosOfTheCyborg 's post.
What happened afterwards:
Soon after my post, I was reprimanded by several people within this thread regarding my post. After reading these replies, the now revealed other hidden posts, and the more serious content of the previous pages, I understood why my post was more offensive, insensitive, and/or intrusive than I intended. Later that day, I received a temporary ban from ResetEra.
The apology:
Most of this mess could have been avoided if my post had contained some contribution and context that indicated why I was interacting with this thread. For example, I could have explicitly replied to TheEchosOfTheCyborg 's post by stating my appreciation of other good outfits in Pokemon Masters. I will keep this in mind for the future.
Thank you for reading.
Context:
On June 29, I opened this thread to page 408. There, I saw post #20,363 by TheEchosOfTheCyborg about Gardenia's new outfit in Pokemon Masters. It included a hidden content box. Having liked many of the outfits in that game, I wanted to know what else TheEchosOfTheCyborg had to say in the hidden box.
At the time, I was not aware of the serious discussions which had occurred in the previous pages in this thread; page 408 does not include any of this discussion in the clear. I was not interested in the other hidden posts on page 408 prior to my post, because there was no non-hidden context accompanying them.
What I did:
I wrote a non-contributing post #20,374 solely in order to see the hidden content in TheEchosOfTheCyborg 's post. I naively wrote the post in a way that indicated that I wanted to see hidden posts in the rest of the thread too, even though I was only interested in TheEchosOfTheCyborg 's post.
What happened afterwards:
Soon after my post, I was reprimanded by several people within this thread regarding my post. After reading these replies, the now revealed other hidden posts, and the more serious content of the previous pages, I understood why my post was more offensive, insensitive, and/or intrusive than I intended. Later that day, I received a temporary ban from ResetEra.
The apology:
- I would like to apologize to the mods for violating ResetEra's rules on drive-by posting, particularly on a thread like this.
- The discussion following my post took up the time of many people, including Patsy , Foot , PallasKitten , PlanetSmasher , Juraash , MoonlitSeer and others. I would like to apologize to them all.
- I agree with Patsy , Foot , and MoonlitSeer that it was wrong to write a non-contributing post just so I could read TheEchosOfTheCyborg 's hidden content. In doing so I also intruded upon several more sensitive posts from coffeecat . Therefore, I would like to apologize to both TheEchosOfTheCyborg and coffeecat .
Most of this mess could have been avoided if my post had contained some contribution and context that indicated why I was interacting with this thread. For example, I could have explicitly replied to TheEchosOfTheCyborg 's post by stating my appreciation of other good outfits in Pokemon Masters. I will keep this in mind for the future.
Thank you for reading.
I'm not one of the people affected by your previous post, but I appreciate your insightful and detailed apology. Thank you for reaching out!
Yeah but with Korean games of this type it's creepily consistent even beyond the usual "hot girls with delicate features only" stuff you see elsewhere. Which is already bad, this is just jarring.
We should be careful about generalizing that all Korean games do these things. It's fine to go after individual games and their designers, but we're making this thread less welcoming when we say things like "All Korean games do this".
It's fine to criticize First Descendant, but no wide spread generalizations.
It's fine to criticize First Descendant, but no wide spread generalizations.
My thoughts are that the keys to having sexy female character designs that are tasteful are to put them in outfits that someone would reasonably wear in the setting and not to frame the camera in a leering way (this recent post compares two Samus pictures, where the more revealing outfit feels less leering). As a fantasy game, there's a lot of leeway in the sorts of outfits characters can wear, so something along the lines of a modern sports bra but with fantasy flair wouldn't be out of the question. Big boobs but with actual support, basically. Also worth remembering that there's a variety in what people can find sexy, so use a variety of body types.
Saying this as a man and not one particularly drawn to sexy character designs, though.
It's certainly a decision to be made. At the bare minimum, avoiding the armor-bikini type of crap will put you head and shoulders among most of the pack. Sexuality can be fine if handled in an honest manner. A mage or an assassin type character can use their looks to their advantage in a way that someone wearing armor and swinging an axe cannot (theoretically).
That said, there are plenty of games that go on to sell millions of copies without having a "booby lady".
I know, I'm keeping sight of the thread warning banner. I mean the specific selection of "realistic" super horny games like Stellar Blade and The First Decendant.
For what it's worth, I'm sympathetic to it being an unfortunate coincidence you walked into, and I didn't agree with you catching a ban over it.
You'll find people being more on guard in this thread towards certain comments due to its history of being used as a target both on and off-site. Not everyone who comes in here is doing so in good faith, and there are plenty who just lurk to gather fuel for harassment. It's unfortunate, but that's the reality, and those who stick around are well aware of that.
I can remember a similar situation that happened a year ago, but in that case people were less understanding of why hidden posts may be used. So I appreciate that you used this as an opportunity to learn instead of pushing back.
can you not just design a character you like, and then give her bigger boobs at the end of that process?
Thanks! ^_^
Right, those are very clear examples, I see what you mean. I'm hoping its as obvious to me what is crossing the line when the time comes, though I do know how gravity works!!
I think we are headed in the right direction with that, I think. The character we have in mind is a "blood mage" who is trying to become as powerful as possible, who acts underhandedly and is proud of it. She will probably be written flamboyantly regardless of design, anyways.
This is very true, and we've gotten this far without it, but with an extremely low marketing budgeted indie game, little things can go a long way. That's why it's even a discussion in the first place. It feels distasteful to talk about bending artistic vision around marketing, but we gotta play the game of capitalism if we want to stay afloat, unfortunately.
Oh yeah lol
legitimately didn't even think of it like that
Thanks for all the responses everybody, this has been a lot of help!
Wanted to say thank you for the recommendations for the Steam sale. I've been playing demos of some of the games recommended that I haven't already played or wasn't eyeing. NORCO, The Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood and Mediterranea Inferno were three games that were recommended here and that I really liked just going from the demo and am excited to play more of. It turns out I have a copy of SIGNALIS on Switch so I'll be trying it along the others.
Sorry for being a bit late, I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I wanted to just add that people will sexualize female characters for being featured in any work, so I think you have more leeway to design a character that is attractive without getting to the realm of something you're not comfortable with.
As far as tasteful goes, it can vary since that's so subjective and sexy outfits are still sexualized at the end of the day. Personal opinion here, but I think it comes down to what an outfit says beyond boobs or legs. The first character design you've shown doesn't really mask the character's shape, but she also looks powerful, determined and like she might favor lighter armor that allows her to move quickly and use her magic with ease.
About a month ago there was a discussion on feedback regarding Hoyoverse designs where people were criticizing the sexiness. One of the resounding comments was on how the outfits no longer looked stylish or confident. With that in mind, I would actually look at things like clothing hauls or styling videos to get a feel for what shapes and styles will strike a better chord for inspiration (or videos that analyze fashion in media like Xavier Farley's videos). I find this design of the demon Nyx (based on the greek goddess), an opera singer, really nice:
She is wearing a evening gown with a dramatic plunging neckline, the collar reminds you of a robe (a nightgown if you will) and her exaggerated sleeves add to the drama of her animations: she raises her arms to sing opera (we are introduced to her in one game as a singer at a bar). It's decidedly a sexy outfit, but it has more going on.
I'm making a game with a small team, in a genre that a lot of the time gets quite male-gaze-y, so we're making an effort to have a nice diverse cast of characters with like, respectable designs.
e.g., our "main" character:
Our character designer is getting a little worried that the lack of a "booby lady" (her words, not mine) is hurting our game's marketing. I'm inclined to agree, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea, and it would kind of stick out from our other characters a bit. So I guess I'm wondering how to navigate the situation. Our character designer is a woman and I'm not, so I don't want to hop on my high horse about it for obvious reasons, but there surely must be a way to do this tastefully? I guess, are they any examples anyone can share of "tasteful" or at least not super male-gaze-y "booby ladies"? Is that possible, or is the entire concept of "booby lady" for marketing inherently a folly?
They are supposed to look east asian, but it's been kind of hard to do that with the anime-ish style, interestingly
Sorry for being a bit late, I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I wanted to just add that people will sexualize female characters for being featured in any work, so I think you have more leeway to design a character that is attractive without getting to the realm of something you're not comfortable with.
Hidden content
About a month ago there was a discussion on feedback regarding Hoyoverse designs where people were criticizing the sexiness. One of the resounding comments was on how the outfits no longer looked stylish or confident. With that in mind, I would actually look at things like clothing hauls or styling videos to get a feel for what shapes and styles will strike a better chord for inspiration (or videos that analyze fashion in media like Xavier Farley's videos). I find this design of the demon Nyx (based on the greek goddess), an opera singer, really nice:
She is wearing a evening gown with a dramatic plunging neckline, the collar reminds you of a robe (a nightgown if you will) and her exaggerated sleeves add to the drama of her animations: she raises her arms to sing opera (we are introduced to her in one game as a singer at a bar). It's decidedly a sexy outfit, but it has more going on.
Yeah that's definitely true. That one rule and all that. Forgive me for forgetting who said it or where, but I think earlier in the thread someone mentioned people will treat certain characters more like porn stars than characters, which is very interesting insight imo.
This is one of those things where it's like, duh, of course you should be mindful of character design when designing a character, but it's also one of those things that you can lose sight of with time and lack of effort. I think that's kind of the crux of the issue, right? A character design leans into potential "bad" territory once you stop caring about characterization in favour of just pure aesthetics or indulgence regardless of if we're talking about sexualization or not. I say this as someone who is largely a fan of Nomura designs lol
Ooh, I've never seen this channel before, I'll definitely check it out and share it with the designer.
I find this design of the demon Nyx (based on the greek goddess), an opera singer, really nice:
She is wearing a evening gown with a dramatic plunging neckline, the collar reminds you of a robe (a nightgown if you will) and her exaggerated sleeves add to the drama of her animations: she raises her arms to sing opera (we are introduced to her in one game as a singer at a bar). It's decidedly a sexy outfit, but it has more going on.
Wow, that's a cool design, and it's actually great inspiration for the character considering this is the kind of vibe we might be going for. Thanks a lot!
This is a good example of how to engage with this community. Thank you for posting!
View: https://x.com/Pirat_Nation/status/1809067872783622526
A Dead Rising game of all things, lol. Here's the article on it.
Dead Rising fans are accusing Capcom of 'censoring' the Deluxe remaster
I thought adding fabric like stockings was censorship though I thought that was a big deal with Stellar Blade which is it WHICH IS IT?!?!?!
You think they'll just not buy the game and stop whining? Because I'd be all for that.
I find her new look so much more classier. Kinda interesting to think about how fashion evolves and how to update styles in games 20/30 games later.
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I'm confused....wouldn't she be better without fishnet stockings because you can see even more skin showing now....? Like, what.
Wouldn't the weirdos want that more than the stockings?
Now we at least know that in the woke hierarchy boob window is more woke than a cleavage.
Lol, this is spot on!
Yep, but knowing them they will continue to whine regardless of what happens!
Yeah I would say in some ways it's an improvement.
I will never understand the logic of weirdos at this point. They really must want those fishnet stockings back. But they cover more of her cleavage so they hate it more now.
True.
I'm guessing because "Why less boobs?!?" by itself is such a weak complaint
I'm grasping at straws they don't make any sense at all
Honestly, I think the new dress is much more attractive than the old one because it shows class and style. The old dress doesn't even make sense from a fashion standpoint where you have the smallest amount of fabric just barely covering the area of her nipples, not to mention her straps going around her neck entirely like a halter dress. I've seen V-Shaped plunging necklines before...but this dress screams that it was designed by a guy with no idea about black cocktail dresses.
A quick Google search and this was the best that I could find that was similar to her old dress....and it's still way more fashionable.
Oh 100%, the new dress looks more like an actual, wearable dress vs some PS360 early HD era jank for the purpose of boobs and boobs only. I really like the style of the new dress along with the fabric texture on it as well.Honestly, I think the new dress is much more attractive than the old one because it shows class and style. The old dress doesn't even make sense from a fashion standpoint where you have the smallest amount of fabric just barely covering the area of her nipples, not to mention her straps going around her neck entirely like a halter dress. I've seen V-Shaped plunging necklines before...but this dress screams that it was designed by a guy with no idea about black cocktail dresses.
A quick Google search and this was the best that I could find that was similar to her old dress....and it's still way more fashionable.
I guess. I always either thought of them as Halloween-y or trashy depending on how they're used. But, of course, I know I'm not the target audience for most games.
I'm making a game with a small team, in a genre that a lot of the time gets quite male-gaze-y, so we're making an effort to have a nice diverse cast of characters with like, respectable designs.
e.g., our "main" character:
Our character designer is getting a little worried that the lack of a "booby lady" (her words, not mine) is hurting our game's marketing. I'm inclined to agree, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea, and it would kind of stick out from our other characters a bit. So I guess I'm wondering how to navigate the situation. Our character designer is a woman and I'm not, so I don't want to hop on my high horse about it for obvious reasons, but there surely must be a way to do this tastefully? I guess, are they any examples anyone can share of "tasteful" or at least not super male-gaze-y "booby ladies"? Is that possible, or is the entire concept of "booby lady" for marketing inherently a folly?
They are supposed to look east asian, but it's been kind of hard to do that with the anime-ish style, interestingly
Another late reply, so my apologies in advance. Loving the work that your lead designer is cooking up for this video game project, and I hope to learn more about it when you're comfortable fully revealing it when it's done.
Speaking with 10+ years of character design experience in both video games and animation, my personal recommendation is you and your team should be the judge of what you want to design for the revolving cast of characters you want players to get invested with. If they're not comfortable with the idea of designing a "booby lady", at least the kind that only exist for objectifying sex appeal, then here's my two-cents. (Bisexual male who is on again/off again with sexy designs):
1) You should design your characters in context of the story and their function. Will they be an NPC? A bit player who will help the crew in some fashion? How old are they? What is their profession? Are they combat-focused? Do they have a non-combat role as they look after the camp?
2) Long before the personality is contributed by so many creative people on the team (voice actors, storyboard artists, animators, the director, etc.), the designer can suggest personality just by how the character looks, before you know anything else about them.
When I look at a design, say, this one:
I can see various elements to suggest this character works at a tavern, perhaps she's the sole owner. Her hair is tied up so that it doesn't get in the way while she is serving drinks to her customers and brewing idle chit-chat. She appears to be middle-aged & sports a more stout build so she can deal with the rowdy customers that are being unpleasant. Obviously there's a huge boob v-cut where the jacket is buttoned, and if given the choice, I would've done a design pass where her breasts aren't as revealing, but the point being is the design (and the elements that make up this character) have to serve a purpose.
For this design, as another example:
The various elements and pose suggests, just like above, she gives off an air of tenacity of a woman in her early 30's. Her outfit gives me the impression that they prefer practicality, for they're a warehouse keeper that checks and organizes a vast inventory of items and equipment. Like the design above, they have a muscular build to suggests all that lifting and re-organization they do has kept them in shape.
Of course, you can design a female character that is more "corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape" (god that line will not leave my head for how stupid it sounds), but you and/or your designer will have the final say what your cast will look like. And it's their responsibility to create a tasteful outfit that character would reasonably wear in your worlds setting, while it isn't framed to the camera in a leering, filthy fashion.
3) It's also worth remembering that there's a variety in what people can find sexy, so use a variety of body types and heights. Research and gathering reference materials is key for this process. The cool thing about writing/creating what you know is that you can always know more!
When I was working on the adult animated series Agent Elvis back in 2021-2022, I was tasked to design a slew of incidental characters that populated that world, which was a late 60's to mid 1970's period piece that emulated the design sensibilities Robert Valley had set for us. Of course, I had to do a ton of research (tons of mood boards, getting photo and video reference, etc.) as I helped design a ton of incidental characters that populated that world. I wanted to make sure each character I designed had a distinct silhouette and purpose behind their design, even if they were just there as either window dressing to fill out crowd shots or will be used for certain sequences, pending on what the lead art director and animation supervisor will need. I designed several male and female hippies for that episode, including a couple of heavy-set ones.
4) The secret magical ingredient is the creator who understands character and chemistry, who naturally have a feeling for character and gripping situations - and enough experience to know technically how to pull it off.
And that's all I can really offer on the subject. You and your team seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and if designing a female character with huge badonkadonks is not something they're comfortable doing, then you're not obligated to create it. Not unless if you come up with something that serves a practical purpose.
Some great game series with some phenominal designs to mine ideas from include the 'Suikoden' series, 'Lunar Silver Star Story' and 'Lunar: Eternal Blue', and Suikoden's spiritual successor, 'Elyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes'.
Speaking as a lesbian... well hosiery of all kinds are common fetishes. >_> That said, context usually dictates if they are meant to be appealing in that way.
Regardless, that new "censored" model is more attractive in pretty much every way. (That added muscle definition. Looks like they are maybe using a version of Dragon's Dogma character creator?)
Why do we give these chuds the time of day?
Regardless, that new "censored" model is more attractive in pretty much every way. (That added muscle definition. Looks like they are maybe using a version of Dragon's Dogma character creator?)
Why do we give these chuds the time of day?
Yeah, at this point it's like reporting that water is wet. These tweets are endless, it's the whole point of their accounts. It's just rage bait.
and once again, I'm sure I'm not alone in this, I wouldn't even know that tweet existed if it wasn't posted here.
On an unrelated note, I really, really like how you can have an asexual relationship w/ Karlach in BG3. She's perfectly chill w/ no sex, and everything about it is so sweet and respectful. She's probably one of my favorite characters in all of gaming.
I'd love to see more of these types of relationships in games.
I'd love to see more of these types of relationships in games.
Karlach is my favorite too. I don't have any interest in dating her but I would love to have Karlach as a friend. She's so different from what I expected her to be after seeing her character art before I played the game and that's great.
Same. I'm only ever exposed to this kinda stuff in my general internet browsing here, or occasionally on Reddit (which is just about the only mainstream social media I use from time to time), but it's usually dunking on the tweets/posts there as well.
While I get laughing at or critiquing these kinds of tweets is funny or cathartic at times (for myself included), it does often make me just check out of the conversation for a bit whenever it's dominating. The stuff from chud accounts is so insanely repetitive it's just too dull to even really acknowledge for me at this point, since I feel like anything I could say about them I've probably already said a million times before.
Having played Persona 5 and Persona 4 earlier this year, I wish there was more of this in that series. Some of the scenes after you choose between romance and friendship are just so horribly awkward if you pick friendship. Like I get that that's how it goes sometimes if someone falls in love with you while you're just trying to be friends, but my god it felt like so many of the girls were written like that. I wish I could make it clear that I just wanted to be friends, just wanted to learn more about the character or even that I already romanced another girl early on in the social link just to avoid that whole thing and not get a super awkward ending.
To add to this, this is also giving them exactly what they want. For their dumb words to spread even further and they'll never care what you call them.
Quitting Twitter ages ago and no longer having to see the constant quote retweets of people dunking on hate-speech, and thus spreading hate speech has been great for my mental health too. To me seeing this stuff now is just tiring I guess.
Oh I didn't know that was an option. That's really cool! Hades did this with Dusa and it was really heartwarming.
Aigis's friendship route in P3 Reload is really sweet and I hope we get more of that going forward.
Yep. I'm sure it's no secret that this forum, and especially this thread, are "watched" on certain forums/discords, and I can only imagine them getting a kick out of seeing people's reactions to chud tweets here, since it probably shows them we're "bothered" by them in their minds or something, or at the very least, paying attention to them.
I mostly quit browsing more toxic/exhausting forums/sites where some of the userbase would veer into "anti-woke" territory, even if there was some pushback to it from other users, the mods on those places rarely did anything unless it was very blatant or going into personal attacks or something. Browsing and posting on more "chill" and generally more progressive places has been better on my mental health as well, but then I see chud tweets posted here and it's definitely tiring for me also.
Or with AI Facebook Jesus in the plane, in the mud, in the water, or on the golf course.
Looking forward to giving that one a go later this year, been hearing some pretty good things about it. I tried P3P earlier this year and while I adored getting to play a female mc for once that version just didn't click with me.
I'm interested to see that one when I get back to reload if so. I've always disliked Aigis and it's always been down to how she's been portrayed, she always comes across as a kinda creepy obsessive which I never appreciated at all. It always just weirded me out. I get that she's a robot and doesn't know any better, but it didn't even feel like it was just that, it felt like they were really playing into it for fanservices and the lols. Even worse in the original version of P3 you had no choice but to date everyone (or ignore the social link altogether).
So question:
Have you asked your designer to sketch out a character or characters that she thinks would work as a "booby lady" that sticks with the ascetics of the game you guys are creating?
Looking at your two characters, something tells me going with a skin tight assassin like outfit probably won't work for what you are trying to create. Does it have to be a "booby lady" maybe a curvy one?
Thinking of being tasteful, the Hyrule Warriors concept art had, what I think, good depictions.
With this grounded aesthetic you will have to do some work to create a gal who would actually go full 'boobylady' despite the attached inconvenience, but that's not impossible. Maybe she can be some force-field mage who genuinely doesn't need any additional protection, or an arrogant dumbass who is deliberately prioritizing her aesthetic over safety and comfort.I'm making a game with a small team, in a genre that a lot of the time gets quite male-gaze-y, so we're making an effort to have a nice diverse cast of characters with like, respectable designs.
e.g., our "main" character:
Our character designer is getting a little worried that the lack of a "booby lady" (her words, not mine) is hurting our game's marketing. I'm inclined to agree, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea, and it would kind of stick out from our other characters a bit. So I guess I'm wondering how to navigate the situation. Our character designer is a woman and I'm not, so I don't want to hop on my high horse about it for obvious reasons, but there surely must be a way to do this tastefully? I guess, are they any examples anyone can share of "tasteful" or at least not super male-gaze-y "booby ladies"? Is that possible, or is the entire concept of "booby lady" for marketing inherently a folly?
They are supposed to look east asian, but it's been kind of hard to do that with the anime-ish style, interestingly
Other than that you should be watching out for the stupid trope where the 'boobylady' is some doe-eyed girl who probably doesn't even know what sex is. Just make her someone who you can buy as deliberately picking the look.