The proof is "I made a campaign promise, negative facts (FAKE) be damned. *shrug*"
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U.S. violates JCPOA; Trump withdraws from Iran nuclear deal & reimposes economic sanctions (UPDATE)
- Thread starter GaimeGuy
- Start date
first of all iran has no burqa
'you' never paid the iranians a dime. it is their own money. the international community just released own assets.
there's so much misinformation going on it's mindboggling.
Because it just seem awfully convenient that Iran would allow foreign investment to build up the country and then just like that, they can end the deal and resume working on weapons but with a more modern country in the aftermath. Also I was wrong when I said 25 years. They can literally start nuclear associated activity again in 2025
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33521655 Here guys seriously, this isn't even NYT, read the deal.
There is a chance that the Iran regime would change and the people in the country would rise up.
But think about the risks as well described in these two scenarios:
1. Keep deal, modernize and invest in Iran. Iran ends deal and resume Nuclear Program and develop a weapon within 3 months, maybe sooner because I'm sure they'll develop better infrastructure in that time (people said they can make a weapon in 3 months in this thread?). They get their cake and eat it too.
2. End deal now, let Iran decide what it will do. If they decide to make the weapon it'll take 3 months (according to people in this thread), but at least they didn't get any foreign investment to prop up the country. Deal with the conflict 3 months from now, which Iran almost 100% wouldn't follow through with. OR they can come back to table and negotiate a deal that would not resume the programs/more limitations on development of missiles.
So really do you want to do deal with the inevitable conflict now or later? History says that leaders tend to pass off the problems to later generations
History also says that America's imperialistic approach to Iran does not work and only serves to increase animosity.
Diplomacy actually got the two sides to the table and agree on something. If Trump wanted to make changes to the deal he should have talked. Ending it serves no one but the American Empire.
when was the last time u.s waged war ? when was the last time iran waged war ?
when was the last time u.s used nuclear weapon ? when was the last time iran used ?
when was the last time u.s did not commit to what it has been agreed ? when was the last time iran did not ?
the only word that cannot be trusted is the word of the current u.s government. and it is the time to stop acting like they are the angels with war hungary people like john bolton
do not get me wrong. our government is absolute shit. we have to be ally with israel and all other matters. But in this situation current u.s government is attractive hate and make actions that will only affect normal people. I am currently see it every where in my country. If john Bolton thinks for a second that even 1% of iran population would support MEK then he really is a fool
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Why do you assume that the conflict is "inevitable"? The very reason why it is inevitable is because the USA just proved that you can't trust the country to hold onto its word. Iran does not have any reason to develop nuclear weapons, unless their existence is threatened. Now their existence is threatened, so it's kind of "rational" to build these weapons.
Also what exactly is your plan how to "deal" with this conflict? Iraq didn't work, Afghanistan didn't work, Syria is a fucking mess, but Iran will be just a couple of bombs and the Middle East will suddenly be a peaceful place? Trump just undermined what little sort-of-peacish situation there is in the Middle East. He also actively undermines the security of Europe. And for what? For nothing, except making war much more likely.
The expiration is such a stupid fucking talking point. It could be extended as long as it needed to be. They don't just get to say fuck it after 5 years, the threat of sanctions are always on the table. Stop
Maybe he's just a fan of nihilistic fools?
Or, y'know, full of shit.
HAHAHA nice try, I kind of had a feeling one of you would look through post history to try to paint me as a Trump supporter. I mean if we don't fully agree, we have to be Trump supporters right?!
Look on the front page and maybe some pages that follow. Plenty of posters sarcastically posted "Trump stays winning" or "Nobel prize"
Nice try though. Feel free to keep looking through post history and let's see how many more juicy posts you can dig up. Good Job detectives.
But this is why you shouldn't make jokes like that. It discredits your position when it comes to these discussions.
Uh, that's weirdly childish of you. I clicked a link, didn't rummage your post history. Good for you if you're being honest? It's still stupid to be pleased with the deal ending.
Edit: and you want regime change? Assuming you want America to do that, Jesus Christ
I mean you were supporting something about me which I am not so I came back at you. And regime change yes, hopefully by the people living in Iran ideally
That's basically asking for another Syria situation. At best.
You are happy the deal ended, want Irananian regime change (which to me typically means foreign intervention by America, because I am American), and made a "Trump stays winning" joke. I don't know how I was supposed to know it was a joke.
Yea, but people usually sarcastically post that when Trump/Trump administration fails at something. It doesn't make sense to post it in that thread in that specific context.
I mean I don't know what to tell you, plenty of people posted sarcastically, it's almost becoming a meme. I wonder how many people will get riled up when I say I view democrats basically the same way as republicans
It's cool if you support regime change in Iran, but as a non-Iranian you have absolutely no right to do anything about it. America supports much worse regimes simply because they have aligned with us.
Now I feel like you're deliberately playing with me. We both know Poe's law is real. People get pissed off all the time at the both sides shit when it isn't clearly, explicitly sarcastic.
if anyone wants to know what Trumps Plan B for a would be deal is then...
Idk if Iran would be up for that as they stated the don't want to negotiate on the current deal
Idk if Iran would be up for that as they stated the don't want to negotiate on the current deal
it is more of it not being a nuclear deal now and but more of it being Iran's tinkering with the region
I am all board on it if other middle east powers like Turkey, Israel UAE, Qatar and SA also agree to do the same
(Oh and the US of course)
I also agree with this
Lastly I also disagree with a war with the Iranian regime on Iranian soil
we don't need such a mess of chaos and destruction that would lead to another vacuum being created
well I know it is not believable but the list should be a list that all parties should follow
screw proxy stuff and "spreading the revolution" or region hegemony
the civilians in the region would thank them
I just think you'd have about as much luck getting Putin to agree to those things as you would Israel or SA.
I mean there has to be a pay off
if Iran chooses to do it if they choose to do it then that might be a good enough trade
This has played out exactly the way Saudi Arabia and the Hawks in Israel wants it.
Once again the middle East is on fire, a confrontation with Iran is unavoidable. Thousands of people will die.
Families fleeing the conflict will end up in Turkey, the Turkish government gets to use them to blackmail and threaten a divided EU.
Populism in Europe once again rears its ugly head because racism is alive and well and a complete lack of compassion and disdain for those who have lost their families and homes fleeing a conflict orchestrated by evil white men who think they rule the world.
Centuries later a kid in a space ship flying over our system asks his dad what is that place down there. Dad replies, that planet was once called earth. They had the best planet in the Galaxy but managed to destroy it all due to their lack of empathy for their fellow human beings and did nothing but waged war and destruction.
Kid looks down in sadness as they pass by a place once called earth.
Fuck this place.
Once again the middle East is on fire, a confrontation with Iran is unavoidable. Thousands of people will die.
Families fleeing the conflict will end up in Turkey, the Turkish government gets to use them to blackmail and threaten a divided EU.
Populism in Europe once again rears its ugly head because racism is alive and well and a complete lack of compassion and disdain for those who have lost their families and homes fleeing a conflict orchestrated by evil white men who think they rule the world.
Centuries later a kid in a space ship flying over our system asks his dad what is that place down there. Dad replies, that planet was once called earth. They had the best planet in the Galaxy but managed to destroy it all due to their lack of empathy for their fellow human beings and did nothing but waged war and destruction.
Kid looks down in sadness as they pass by a place once called earth.
Fuck this place.
You can stick your head in the sand and accept the world is doomed, the rest of us will keep trying to make things better. If the world does end will be because of people like you who gave up.
I'd like regime change too, but why aren't you saying the same thing about North Korea? What about their human rights abuses? We have zero specifics for any deal yet it's still jubilation over getting to sit across a murderous dictator for a chat? I guess we just assume that, unlike Iran, the North Koreans will be so impressed by our awesomeness that they'll give full access to their nation on demand and abolish their military.
NK just released a photo with our SoS and their leader smiling it up like they're best buds. Where's the indignation there?
Ah so saying how I feel and see where things could end up means I gave up? I was out protesting the unjust war in Iraq. Where were you then? I have never given up.
I wasn't even out of high school and was cheering the conflict on because I was a stupid kid.
But it sounds like you have given up. I've seen this kind of attitude before and typically from people who've resigned themselves to the state of the world. Maybe you're still go through the motions but in reality you don't believe in the cause anymore because you've lost faith.
Don't say that, it will only encourage them.
Alt-right people don't fare too well on strictly moderated forums, so it's just a matter of time before they go back to where they came from.
If Trump tought he could cancel the Iran deal to force them to make a new one more favorable to the US, that's a ridiculous mistake. Iran won't negociate with a country that can't hold to it's promises.
I'm still fighting and going through the motions yes. You just get up every day and do what you can to help those in need and try to not to change minds but get into dialog so those who seem to cheer for these reckless wars and destruction of other people's homelands to look at the situations from other angels.
Sad that people still don't know the basics of the deal. The only groups that this dumbass action by Trump serves is Israel and SA, who are ready to go to war with Iran.
While I don't agree with the whole world is doomed either. Saying it's the fault of people who have given up is not true at all.
From the excerpts he posted it reads less like a policy brief and more like a wish list. They barely got a deal on nuclear enrichment signed, trying to get all of those alongside it in one package is a non-starter
This is insanely wrongheaded, childish and dangerous. To be honest, it is pretty obvious who is the more reprehensible party in this situation.
Ok wait, so the US saying they will stay out of regional affairs and not be the imperialistic regime that they have been accused of being for decades in order to literally prevent a new nuclear arms race in the most volatile region in the world is bad?
Obama's doctrine was to get the US out of the middle east, full stop. The Iran deal was to accelerate such a goal and completely hamstring Israel from being the warmongering regime it so desperately wants to be and prevent them from doing something that would give probable cause to drag the US into another conflict.
ive always found the idea that countries can dictate which countries can and cant have nukes tenuous. Now of course its a complex issue etc. But I meant we as the world couldnt stop nk from it.
if a global consensus can be reached im willing to consider for ALL (including us, russia etc) denuclearizing but with a global consortium with nukes (think its important due to unforseen things such as aliens/asteroids that the tech keeps being developed) having that that nuclear deterrance is also a very valid thing so im not fully convinced about it pro or against.
I am however not convicned at all that only 6-7 countries in the world should have access to nukes. To me that is a very tenuous position.
if a global consensus can be reached im willing to consider for ALL (including us, russia etc) denuclearizing but with a global consortium with nukes (think its important due to unforseen things such as aliens/asteroids that the tech keeps being developed) having that that nuclear deterrance is also a very valid thing so im not fully convinced about it pro or against.
I am however not convicned at all that only 6-7 countries in the world should have access to nukes. To me that is a very tenuous position.
more or less the guy had the foresight to realize the true power balance in 50 years lies in the indo pacific region not the middle east.
dont remember the source but was a great article on how obama realized he needs to reorient the us to face that power / influence field if us is to remain a super power 50-100 years down the line. One of the smartest and forward looking choices he made imo .
Why should Iran cease actions concerning regional influence?
Its called foreign policy, the US specialise in regional influence, arms sales and destabilising areas based on self interest.
Hypocritical list of demands if I have ever seen one.
Has the US stated specifically what tenets of the deal Iran broke? I can't believe Trump can just arbitrarily withdraw from it and no one's called them on why exactly they thought it had failed - beyond ramblings of "bad deal, they're laughing at us!" Aren't you supposed to have accountability?
The current state of American politics is that the GOP controls all branches of the government and does not hold Trump accountable for anything.