U.S. violates JCPOA; Trump withdraws from Iran nuclear deal & reimposes economic sanctions (UPDATE)

UnderNewOwnership · May 9, 2018

M.Bluth said:
You phrase that as if the Iranians didn't spend the last 40 years building up their capabilities.
Had the window been really closed, the JCPOA wouldn't have been as strict on their uranium enrichment...

Stuxnet destroyed all their centrifuges in the early '00s, and Mossad has been steadily assassinating their key project personnel, so they haven't been able to rebuild anywhere near North Korean levels.
The uranium enrichment bit was more of a fig leaf to prevent Russia from supplying them with enriched uranium via forged documents (that would present the uranium as domestically enriched). The document had a provision specifically allowing Russia to openly supply them with some minute quantities of uranium (as compensation).

Fanatic · May 9, 2018

rjinaz said:
If only we had some agreement with them in place where they stopped developing nukes.

There's no agreement any longer. Anything Iran does remotely like threatening America with death is only going to give America an excuse to attack if they suspect they're developing nukes.

M.Bluth said:
The North Koreans have said the same, and they actually developed nuclear weapons. Yet your President is sitting with them now to make a deal all the same.

Tell me why the Iranians, if they wish for a better deal, shouldn't just go through with developing and testing nuclear bombs right now.

Sure it might work, it might also not work resulting in war. I guess the Iranians is going to have to weigh the risks.

Deleted member 11093 · May 9, 2018

Deleted member 5359 · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
Did anyone see the death to america stuff on twitter? If its true im siding with trump on this one

lmao, calm down. Iranian hardliners shout death to America if traffic is bad or if it rains on the weekend. They've been doing that shit since the 80s.

Johnny Blaze · May 9, 2018

Fanatic said:
There's no agreement any longer. Anything Iran does remotely like threatening America with death is only going to give America an excuse to attack if they suspect they're developing nukes.

Sure it might work, it might also not work resulting in war. I guess the Iranians is going to have to weigh the risks.

Having nukes works wonders against the warmongering police state.

Especially since natural resources are finite. The US will put anyone back into the stone ages who has something they need. Every country should look into it, because when the US is done with bombing and destroying the shit out of the Middle East then other countries will follow.

I am generally against nukes but its obvious they are a necessity as long as the US does what it always does.

RDreamer · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
Did anyone see the death to america stuff on twitter? If its true im siding with trump on this one

Did anyone see the "Bomb Iran" stuff from the United States' National Security Advisor? How about the President's lawyer calling for regime change? Oh, and on top of that America just violated an international treaty! Oh, and the president has constantly advocated war crimes in the middle east were a war to happen. If its true I'm not siding with Trump on this one.

Fanatic · May 9, 2018

Kill Your Masters said:
Having nukes works wonders against the warmongering police state.

Especially since natural resources are finite. The US will put anyone back into the stone ages who has something they need. Every country should look into it, because when the US is done with bombing and destroying the shit out of the Middle East then other countries will follow.

I am generally against nukes but its obvious they are a necessity as long as the US does what it always does.

You're not wrong that having nukes will likely prevent any sort of aggression. The thing is, maybe Israel is not going to be too happy when Iran starts testing nukes. I can't imagine them wanting to go along with that at all.

Principate · May 9, 2018

Fanatic said:
You're not wrong that having nukes will likely prevent any sort of aggression. The thing is, maybe Israel is not going to be too happy when Iran starts testing nukes. I can't imagine them wanting to go along with that at all.

I doubt Israel wants to go alone against a war with Iran. They're not stupid disabling their nuclear capabilties would not be easy at all for israel.

Johnny Blaze · May 9, 2018

Fanatic said:
You're not wrong that having nukes will likely prevent any sort of aggression. The thing is, maybe Israel is not going to be too happy when Iran starts testing nukes. I can't imagine them wanting to go along with that at all.

Definitely. And Add the Saudis to that bunch.

I assume the US/Israel/SA will try and act before it even comes to testing. If the radicals win in Iran then anything goes.

I don't want to come off as hyperbolic but up to this point everything looks like it will lead to conflicts, especially with Bolton.

Fanatic · May 9, 2018

Principate said:
I doubt Israel wants to go alone against a war with Iran. They're not stupid disabling their nuclear capabilties would not be easy at all for israel.

They wouldn't be alone, they'd have the backing of Saudi Arabia and likely the U.S. as well.

Principate · May 9, 2018

Either way it likely require a ground war which means your talking essentially about a US intervention with Saudi and iran support since i doubt either will willing put boots on the ground in that scenario. Either way it wouldn't be mainly israel driving it.

bobbychalkers · May 9, 2018

lowmelody said:
Yeah, we've threatened to destroy their country, removed their democratically elected leaders, support the assassination of their citizens through Isreal and reneged on an agreement that they were abiding by and doing literally all we can to economically hurt them on top of it.

but man, they said something mean about our precious USA in response so I actually I agree with all the stuff we've done to make them think and say it!

A-fucking-men....

orochi91 · May 9, 2018

lowmelody said:
Yeah, we've threatened to destroy their country, removed their democratically elected leaders, support the assassination of their citizens through Isreal and reneged on an agreement that they were abiding by and doing literally all we can to economically hurt them on top of it.

but man, they said something mean about our precious USA in response so I actually I agree with all the stuff we've done to make them think and say it!

+1

Jyester · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
Iran should have waited to respond especially when EU said they were still supporting them

Iran doesn't owe the US jack shit, considering its history of being screwed over by previous administrations. Iran has plenty of legitimate reasons to hate America. The US helped kick-start Iran's nuclear program before carrying out a coup to depose the country's only democratically elected government in favor of the old monarchy.

regenhuber · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
This sounds like whataboutism. Also, the deal with North Korea is for the greater good and to bring peace to the region.
I'm not liking the fact that Iran only accepted the old deal as long as they were freely allowed to develop and build ballistic missiles. Why do you need ballistic missiles other than deploying nuclear warheads?
I'm obviously not a mind reader and dont know what their exact motivations behind this are, but its not a good look.

.

Funky Papa · May 9, 2018

"Why do you need ballistic missiles other than deploying nuclear warheads?"

Non nuclear ballistic missiles abound. A good number of countries, including non-nuclear nations allied with the US such as Taiwan, Finland and Greece, operate them. And then there's the old Soviet Bloc, including Ukraine, which has used them against pro-Russian forces. Heck, even the Houthis are using them in Yemen, and those are literally Iranian missiles.

Ballistic only means that it follows a ballistic trajectory. Being able to deliver a nuclear payload is a different thing in terms of technology. And in any case the EU was already putting pressure on Iran in order to cancel their development since no member state wants to be within their range, nuclear tipped or not.

SteveWinwood · May 9, 2018

why do we even have missles if we're not gonna put nukes on them

Abstrusity · May 9, 2018

SteveWinwood said:
why do we even have missles if we're not gonna put nukes on them

Because they say we're gonna get pie when they die and we all know we get cake when we die!

Deleted member 31923 · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
Did anyone see the death to america stuff on twitter? If its true im siding with trump on this one

What a stupid thing to say. Let's get rid of a nuclear treaty and threaten war and an actual nuclear Iran because some people were mean to my country on Twitter. With people like you, no wonder Trump is President.

Mathieran · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
Dude, its not random people! Its the parliament!

We had presidential candidates and people in our current administration banging the drums of war.

Hell, our president asked why we don't just use our nukes. There are people running our country that have advocated for the death of people. They just go about it a different way. Same thing in the end.

Nappuccino · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
Did anyone see the death to america stuff on twitter? If its true im siding with trump on this one

Their reaction makes sense.

Deleted member 10908 · May 9, 2018

Mathieran said:
We had presidential candidates and people in our current administration banging the drums of war.

Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

Jesse_and_the_rippers · May 9, 2018

clevbrowns95 said:
What a stupid thing to say. Let's get rid of a nuclear treaty and threaten war and an actual nuclear Iran because some people were mean to my country on Twitter. With people like you, no wonder Trump is President.

Well said.

Brawly Likes to Brawl · May 9, 2018

clevbrowns95 said:
What a stupid thing to say. Let's get rid of a nuclear treaty and threaten war and an actual nuclear Iran because some people were mean to my country on Twitter. With people like you, no wonder Trump is President.

Some people are simply addicted to making the same mistakes over and over again.

Steel · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
dude how do you defend them calling death to a entire country?

A few months ago Trump was tweeting about nuking North Korea.

guek said:
Are some people really arguing ANOTHER war in the Middle East would be winnable within a foreseeable time frame?

Really? Really???

Fuck, really? Goddamn

That argument isn't whether or not the U.S. would win a war, both sides of it are saying that that's not possible, it's mostly semantic on whether or not Iran's army would actually hold up.

Cyberglade · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

Because the phrase 'Death to America' doesn't actually mean 'kill all Americans.'

Steeped in a Sea of Games · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
Did anyone see the death to america stuff on twitter? If its true im siding with trump on this one

There are tons of people in America who regularly say we should nuke Iran and other countries into a giant crater. Do you think we should be sanctioned and shut down?

M.Bluth · May 9, 2018

Fanatic said:
They wouldn't be alone, they'd have the backing of Saudi Arabia and likely the U.S. as well.

The reason why the Israelis and Arab Gulf countries have been harping on the US to abandon this deal is because they'd like the US to go to war and neutralize the Iranian threat.
They wanted America to lead and take the greater brunt of it all for them. They might send a few ground troops and a handful of special forces, but otherwise they'll be content providing some planes to bomb shit and that's it.
Neither will lead the war and just get backup from the US, they want it the other way around.

Mathieran · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

We've had jokes about bombing Iran, wondering if sand turns to glass, saying Arabs/Muslims are evil, etc.

I'm not defending these people's actions. I'm just saying people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I know I don't want to be judged for the words and actions of the GOP even though they run the country.

I'm not going to judge a whole country based on this action when we don't have a leg to stand on and I certainly don't want to violate an agreement that might nudge us closer to war.

Deleted member 34385 · May 9, 2018

As a iranian living in europe, i wonder how many people here have actually been to iran or even know anything about it except what the media is telling them. yeah the regime is bad, but i've been there a few times and it's nothing like the media is trying to show. I am really dissapointed in a lot of people on this forum for judging a whole country without even knowing what is going on. Who knows maybe this will lead to war or it will just be some words both parties throw at each other, but everyone should stop and dive a little bit into what is really going on before judging and making assumptions

Box of Kittens · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
Did anyone see the death to america stuff on twitter? If its true im siding with trump on this one

Trump is strengthening their position with his actions.

Hierophant · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

How people are defending the reneging of the Iran Deal is beyond me.

Also lmao at disgraceful things, as if American Neocons haven't been calling for Iran's destruction for years. I'd also rather take "disgraceful things" being said than the widespread massacres that seem to occur whenever the US wanders dickfirst into another conflict in the Middle East.

I hate it when people bring up the awful things that lawmakers of the United States have done or said, it's such whataboutism.

rambis · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

Trump just gave a ~12min speech focused around regime change and fabricated agreement violations. This is his "weapons of mass destruction moment". If we descend into conflict with Iran then everyone will remember that he and Bolton started.

Veliladon · May 9, 2018

Steeped in a Sea of Games said:
There are tons of people in America who regularly say we should nuke Iran and other countries into a giant crater. Do you think we should be sanctioned and shut down?

We've got a fucking Senator on tape proudly singing "BOMB BOMB BOMB! BOMB BOMB IRAN!" in the style of The Beach Boys. We're in a glass house here, people.

BernardoOne · May 9, 2018

ReginOfFire said:
Did anyone see the death to america stuff on twitter? If its true im siding with trump on this one

LMAO
The fucking administration has been saying basically the same shit "death to iran" for fucking ages. Jesus christ you people are fucking easily manipulated as fuck. The "death to America" dudes are from the fringest of the fringe, not the fucking whole of Iran.

rob305 said:
Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

Most of the people in the administration have wanted murder and war with Iran. If they could kill every Iranian they would.

Deleted member 31923 · May 9, 2018

BernardoOne said:
LMAO
The fucking administration has been saying basically the same shit "death to iran" for fucking ages. Jesus christ you people are fucking easily manipulated as fuck. The "death to America" dudes are from the fringest of the fringe, not the fucking whole of Iran.

Most of the people in the administration have wanted murder and war with Iran.

Not to mention that not too long ago this country started a war that resulted in an estimated one million Iraqi deaths. First, we kind of deserve those death chants, and second, that ain't shit compared to what we have actually done.

SteveWinwood · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

here

set to music no less

RDreamer · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

The current administration has said they want regime change and to bomb Iran. The current president has advocated war crimes in the middle east both regret for not doing it in the past and advocating future war crimes. Sure, no one has openly stated their wishes to kill "every Iranian," but then "Death to America" doesn't mean death to "every American" either. This administration wants to give the military far more power to indiscriminately kill in whatever place of the world they're in. Those are the facts.

Veliladon · May 9, 2018

clevbrowns95 said:
Not to mention that not too long ago this country started a war that resulted in an estimated one million Iraqi deaths. First, we kind of deserve those death chants, and second, that ain't shit compared to what we have actually done.

USA causes millions of deaths in Latin America, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, props up authoritarian and brutal regimes while wrapping themselves in a mantle of championing human rights.
Iranian Hardliners: DEATH TO AMERICA!
USA: "MOM! THE MUSLIMS WERE MEAN TO ME! CAN I NUKE THEM NOW?"

Big Boy · May 9, 2018

rob305 said:
Another case of classic whataboutism. Also, please define "banging the drums of war". I doubt anyone in our current administration openly said we have to kill every Iranian. How people are defending the disgraceful things that were said in that parliament is beyond me

Death to America does not mean death to Americans, but death to American imperialism. I'm sure you'll ignore this though

Angelus Errare · May 9, 2018

lowmelody said:
Yeah, we've threatened to destroy their country, removed their democratically elected leaders, support the assassination of their citizens through Isreal and reneged on an agreement that they were abiding by and doing literally all we can to economically hurt them on top of it.

but man, they said something mean about our precious USA in response so I actually I agree with all the stuff we've done to make them think and say it!

.

Commedieu · May 9, 2018

clevbrowns95 said:
What a stupid thing to say. Let's get rid of a nuclear treaty and threaten war and an actual nuclear Iran because some people were mean to my country on Twitter. With people like you, no wonder Trump is President.

This is the problem with America. That poster is registered to vote. And it's a whole lot of people like them that just read things from their aunts rosanes Facebook feed. And run with it...

Theres no effort to see a mistake and say "oh shit. I didn't know that, my bad." It's news that sort of let's your feelings about a situation be justified. So goal posts will be moved if you try to point out that shit on the feed is fake.

A lot of people are like this, and a ton are voting. This country had 2 alternative egos. One is little to no information and wants to roll the clock back to "the good old days", the other, doesnt.

Deleted member 11262 · May 9, 2018

Veliladon said:
USA causes millions of deaths in Latin America, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, props up authoritarian and brutal regimes while wrapping themselves in a mantle of championing human rights.
Iranian Hardliners: DEATH TO AMERICA!
USA: "MOM! THE MUSLIMS WERE MEAN TO ME! CAN I NUKE THEM NOW?"

I'd laugh if it wasn't so accurate...

BMatt07 · May 9, 2018

Nola said:
And yet they upheld their end, over and over again.

So how does this improve the situation? How does this improve the probability of preventing Iran from attaining a nuclear weapon? What is the endgame here and why is this going to achieve it?

I've asked this question to you right-wingers for years and never gotten an answer.

I simply think the JCPOA is too lax, it's not strict enough on Iran.

Lifting the U.N. sanctions on Iran's ballistic missile program as a concession to get them to enter in to the JCPOA was just unwise. A country's nuclear program is divided in to three main parts, development, weaponization, and delivery. Ballistic missiles would fall firmly under the delivery category. Arguing that the JCPOA has stopped Iran from developing nuclear weapons, as they continue to launch and test ballistic missiles which are an integral part to nuclear payload delivery, is just untrue. According to the FDD, Iran has conducted at least 23 ballistic missile tests since the JCPOA was ratified. It's unacceptable.

My personal biggest problem with the JCPOA comes from the "sunset" clause. Iran's nuclear restrictions should not have an expiration date. Iran claims that they will abide by the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty after the restrictions expire. If anyone believed that BULLSHIT there would be no reason to need the JCPOA in the first place.

And for the record, Iran has violated the JCPOA on multiple occasions, which highlights another inadequacy with the JCPOA. There are no agreed upon consequences for Iran violating the term of the deal. The looming prospect is to reimpose all UN sanctions on Iran, which is the equivalent of the death penalty. When the death penalty is your only option as a punishment, violations go unpunished. There was no punishment when Iran on multiple occasions has been found to have more heavy water (a form of water used in nuclear reactors) than permitted by the deal. There was no punishment when according the FDD Tehran has found and are using new ways to conduct mechanical testing of nuclear centrifuges, a clear violation of the JCPOA.

abrasivemurk · May 9, 2018

SteveWinwood said:
here

set to music no less

disgusting people are in charge in usa

M.Bluth · May 9, 2018

BMatt07 said:
My personal biggest problem with the JCPOA comes from the "sunset" clause. Iran's nuclear restrictions should not have an expiration date. Iran claims that they will abide by the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty after the restrictions expire. If anyone believed that BULLSHIT there would be no reason to need the JCPOA in the first place.

And that shows the shortsightedness of this complaint.
There's simply no way that a deal any stricter would've been struck. So the alternative is no deal at all.
More importantly, the deal is designed to take advantage of the shifting demographics in Iran. Khamenei is 79 years old, he's unlikely to outlast those expiration while still in power, his replacement will not be as powerful.
And as the moderates/reformers prove that their methods work, their political capital increases and allows them to truly transform the country and its foreign policy.

This deal would've paved the way for gradual reforms culminating into regime change in under 20 years without war.
Instead, now the best case scenario if this entire thing collapses is that Iran continues to be the way it is under theocratic rule for at least another 30 years

BMatt07 said:
And for the record, Iran has violated the JCPOA on multiple occasions, which highlights another inadequacy with the JCPOA. There are no agreed upon consequences for Iran violating the term of the deal. The looming prospect is to reimpose all UN sanctions on Iran, which is the equivalent of the death penalty. When the death penalty is your only option as a punishment, violations go unpunished. There was no punishment when Iran on multiple occasions has been found to have more heavy water (a form of water used in nuclear reactors) than permitted by the deal. There was no punishment when according the FDD Tehran has found and are using new ways to conduct mechanical testing of nuclear centrifuges, a clear violation of the JCPOA

Citation needed. The IAEA has confirmed multiple times that they're compliant.

Ebullientprism · May 9, 2018

lowmelody said:
Yeah, we've threatened to destroy their country, removed their democratically elected leaders, support the assassination of their citizens through Isreal and reneged on an agreement that they were abiding by and doing literally all we can to economically hurt them on top of it.

but man, they said something mean about our precious USA in response so I actually I agree with all the stuff we've done to make them think and say it!

Pretty much.

floridaguy954 · May 9, 2018

Elandyll said:
Well, so much for the good word of the US government.

Agreed. That piece of shit idiot Trump continues to smear shit all over the credibility of the United States government.

Why should other governments take our government seriously when we violate agreements? I say violate because any news outlet calling it a "withdrawal" are being blatantly misleading.

SteveWinwood · May 9, 2018

BMatt07 said:
And for the record, Iran has violated the JCPOA on multiple occasions, which highlights another inadequacy with the JCPOA. There are no agreed upon consequences for Iran violating the term of the deal. The looming prospect is to reimpose all UN sanctions on Iran, which is the equivalent of the death penalty. When the death penalty is your only option as a punishment, violations go unpunished. There was no punishment when Iran on multiple occasions has been found to have more heavy water (a form of water used in nuclear reactors) than permitted by the deal. There was no punishment when according the FDD Tehran has found and are using new ways to conduct mechanical testing of nuclear centrifuges, a clear violation of the JCPOA.

for the record bmatt07 has sex with goats

i have shown the same amount of citation as you so its probs true

GK86 · May 9, 2018

U.S. violates JCPOA; Trump withdraws from Iran nuclear deal & reimposes economic sanctions (UPDATE)

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