Total Warhammer III |OT| The Age of Reckoning

Kaffeemann · Feb 5, 2023

Did CA ever make a definitive statement if they are allowed to use End Times content, characters in particular?
There're already several RoR and the Silverin Guard from the End Times but some people still say it's off limits.

karnage10 · Feb 5, 2023

Kaffeemann said:
Did CA ever make a definitive statement if they are allowed to use End Times content, characters in particular?
There're already several RoR and the Silverin Guard from the End Times but some people still say it's off limits.

CA has been, IMO, intentionally vague on their statement.

CA has said that Warhammer 3 will not follow The End Times and is focused on the timeline of Karl Franz rise to power.

Quoting the blog.

Creative Assembly said:
IS TOTAL WAR: WARHAMMER III GOING TO BE SET DURING THE END TIMES AND FEATURE STUFF FROM AGE OF SIGMAR?

No, as with Total War: WARHAMMER and Total War: WARHAMMER II, Total War: WARHAMMER III is set around the reign of Karl Franz. Our primary source is Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th Edition, although we have and will continue to use older editions for inspiration where appropriate.

But we have had several unit from End Times and CA has disrespected Karl Franz rise to power to bring cool chars back like Vlad and Grom, which to my limited knowledge should either be dead or missing.

My take on CA's stance:
CA knows that a lot of warhammer fans are bitter for the End Times ending their tabletop game. Thus CA will be clear that End Times aren't a focus in their marketing.
CA also knows warhammer lives by the rule of cool. I think CA will add End Times content if it makes sense (for example I think the nurgle and khorne units look great for a DLC Lord pack) as they know fans will receive end times units as extra content as long as CA doesn't add the End Times storyline.

In terms of license its clear that CA has access to everything warhammer fantasy or basically what GW calls warhammer old world. Why do I say this:
- CA has used the latest Great demons for DoC
- CA made Cathay and kislev which are probably future Old world factions
- CA made PoVC with dreadfleet content
- A lot of units like Zoats are old or side content so to speak.
- GW allows CA to create content such as Cylostra

personally the above show that CA has access to everything.

Kaffeemann · Feb 6, 2023

You're right, I don't think we will ever see End Times story lines or character twists like Malekith becoming Phoenix King.

Burt · Feb 6, 2023

Is Archaon not an End Times character...?

Odinsmana · Feb 6, 2023

Burt said:
Is Archaon not an End Times character...?

No. He is pretty old from what I know. None of the current legendary lords were created for the End Times.

Burt · Feb 6, 2023

Odinsmana said:
No. He is pretty old from what I know. None of the current legendary lords were created for the End Times.

Oh that's interesting, everything you read about him is so End Times-focused that it's odd to think of him rolling around just doing regular Chaos stuff before they even thought of the End Times.

Odinsmana · Feb 6, 2023

Burt said:
Oh that's interesting, everything you read about him is so End Times-focused that it's odd to think of him rolling around just doing regular Chaos stuff before they even thought of the End Times.

I am not a lore expert, so if I am wrong someone should correct me, but chaos has always been working toward destroying the world. Archaon is just the latest in a line of Everchosen. Chaos has tried invading the world several times before, but until the End Times they always failed. Archaon even had his own failed invasion in the "Storm of Chaos" event which I think has been retconned when the End Times event happened.

yukiiinobattlegaiden · Feb 6, 2023

Anoregon · Feb 6, 2023

I wonder how much of the executive fuckery being very thinly blamed there is CA specifically, or if there are actual GW directives related to upcoming Old World announcements that are causing them headaches.

Maledict · Feb 6, 2023

Odinsmana said:
I am not a lore expert, so if I am wrong someone should correct me, but chaos has always been working toward destroying the world. Archaon is just the latest in a line of Everchosen. Chaos has tried invading the world several times before, but until the End Times they always failed. Archaon even had his own failed invasion in the "Storm of Chaos" event which I think has been retconned when the End Times event happened.

Yep. The playerbase really hates the "Chaos wins" storyline, so when they were given any say in how it ran they curb-stomped Chaos to the ground. So they retconned Storm of Chaos out of existence and then went with the End Times, which is such a depressing pile of turgid garbage and retcons it's just sad reading.

yukiiinobattlegaiden · Feb 7, 2023

oddjobs said:

BTW
They're saying that the game hasn't been abandoned. Not saying anything about the multiple years of support that was communicated previously.
I have zero fucking faith in this company about this game right now.

If the game that's been one of their most successful yet can't get "the green light" from the management, then what is the hold up? They also haven't really put out any news about Hyenas in months, so what really is the hold up?

Anoregon · Feb 7, 2023

oddjobs said:
BTW
They're saying that the game hasn't been abandoned. Not saying anything about the multiple years of support that was communicated previously.
I have zero fucking faith in this company about this game right now.

If the game that's been one of their most successful yet can't get "the green light" from the management, then what is the hold up? They also haven't really put out any news about Hyenas in months, so what really is the hold up?

The real wild thing is that it's still super easy for them to turn things around as far as PR/community sentiment goes: announce Chaos Dwarves release (and ideally not in like half a year), and announce that IE no longer requires all 3 games, you can simply play it with whatever factions/lords you have access to. That's it. Those two things would get people feeling much better about the future of the game.

Anno · Feb 7, 2023

Idk it reads to me like some sort of internal (like developer to publisher) political fuckery, and if so there's not much you can do about that.

Anoregon · Feb 7, 2023

Anno said:
Idk it reads to me like some sort of internal (like developer to publisher) political fuckery, and if so there's not much you can do about that.

Yeah, it certainly gives the impression that there is more going on than just "stuff still isn't ready to show/release". But the fact that that would tie their hands completely like this is pretty fucked.

Anno · Feb 7, 2023

Anoregon said:
But the fact that that would tie their hands completely like this is pretty fucked.

That's why I feel it has to be something relatively out of their control. Like whatever criticisms you have of CA they obviously love making these games and I assume would like to have a community like they did two years ago and would be doing something towards that end if they could.

yukiiinobattlegaiden · Feb 7, 2023

Anno said:
That's why I feel it has to be something relatively out of their control. Like whatever criticisms you have of CA they obviously love making these games and I assume would like to have a community like they did two years ago and would be doing something towards that end if they could.

I mean, there's more or less exactly two parties (Sega & GW) who could have control over what happens.
Not to mention that they've already shit the bed a few times with scheduling. Regardless of who exactly is responsible for what happened here, I'm personally not extending any good will towards the specific studio, when the end result looks to be the same regardless.

karnage10 · Feb 7, 2023

Wh2 also had problems at release and took around 1 year before it was in a "fun" state ( by this i mean mortal empires mostly working as intended)

The way i see it CA is late on their work. Which probably comes from using more resources towards making immortal empires better and their new races are probably getting much bigger oversight by GW. GW will probably want to add those races to the old world game.
We are probably getting in the (relatively) near future:
1) Chaos Dwarves -Confirmed
2) Dogs of war /southern realms - Southern realms are their one factions, tilea is unique and many factions have a basic tech that already sees southern realms as unique. These are clearly planned
3) Nagash and his friends - IMO there are several ways to approach Naggash. one of these could try to bring more units to make his faction unique. The end times units such as Morghast give a reasonable chance to bring some AoS units with similar design (assuming those units are in the old world game).

We should also consider the fact that there hasn't been any type of leak. IMO this means that they are "late" on their work.

I feel like If the game wasn't going to be supported for years CA wouldn't have bothered with Ind and khuresh landmass and instead just used a similar approach to mortal empires.
Another point for my opinion is that CA announced a gameplay mode with intel that still hasn't been released.

At this point, I think the above shows that CA (+ GW?) had poor management which did choices that end up delaying their content.

yukiiinobattlegaiden · Feb 7, 2023

karnage10 said:
We are probably getting in the (relatively) near future:
1) Chaos Dwarves -Confirmed
2) Dogs of war /southern realms - Southern realms are their one factions, tilea is unique and many factions have a basic tech that already sees southern realms as unique. These are clearly planned
3) Nagash and his friends - IMO there are several ways to approach Naggash. one of these could try to bring more units to make his faction unique. The end times units such as Morghast give a reasonable chance to bring some AoS units with similar design (assuming those units are in the old world game).

I mean, yes, that's how it should go.
However, they've been consistently late with everything, and at some point CA will start looking at the opportunity cost of investing in an older game, instead of using the same resources on something else.

I'm not saying that the Chaos Dwarves won't eventually come out, but that the longer it takes, the smaller the possibility of Dogs of War or something like that coming out. They also made vague promises for the monogods + there should probably be something coming out for Cathay/Kislev => what ever is in a less defined state by now risks getting axed eventually. Calculating generously, they are probably 6-9 months behind their intended schedule by now, and I don't think they will stretch the support window any longer due to that.

But this is nothing new - it was in december when they moved goalposts, it having been over two months since they said the roadmap was coming out. Now it's almost a month and a half later and absolutely nothing has changed.

Maledict · Feb 7, 2023

I really don't see Southern Realms or Dogs of War at this point. They need exciting cool stuff to get people back in the game. Another human faction that's a minor twist on existing factions isn't going to set the world alight. Chaos Dwarves and then Nagash would be my bet, and we get a tease for Nagash in the chaos dwarf release stuff.

karnage10 · Feb 7, 2023

oddjobs said:
I mean, yes, that's how it should go.
However, they've been consistently late with everything, and at some point CA will start looking at the opportunity cost of investing in an older game, instead of using the same resources on something else.

I'm not saying that the Chaos Dwarves won't eventually come out, but that the longer it takes, the smaller the possibility of Dogs of War or something like that coming out. They also made vague promises for the monogods + there should probably be something coming out for Cathay/Kislev => what ever is in a less defined state by now risks getting axed eventually. Calculating generously, they are probably 6-9 months behind their intended schedule by now, and I don't think they will stretch the support window any longer due to that.

But this is nothing new - it was in december when they moved goalposts, it having been over two months since they said the roadmap was coming out. Now it's almost a month and a half later and absolutely nothing has changed.

IF my comprehension isn't a mistake You are assuming 1 thing that is wrong.

you are assuming - The longer that CA delays new content the less revenue they make because there will be less player playing.

You see wh2 concurrent players increased with time and with each successive DLC.
We have a gaming company that survives of this phenomenon which is Paradox Development Studios. Heart of Iron IV has also been increasing their playerbase since launch from 8000 in 2016 to around 30000 now. Their all time peak was in October 2022 if i remember correctly.

What i am trying to show is CA isn't on a sprint or on a countdown. IF CA can nail the DLC with good to excellent content they can slowly increase WH3 playerbase to get better profitability.
However if CA makes DLC that is poorly thoughout or very limiting it will have the opposite effect. You can check 3 kingdoms DLC and see that with each content release less and less player were playing the game. This is because the DLC not only didn't resonate with players but also increased issues on the "basic" campaign.

What do you think about the above?

Maledict said:
I really don't see Southern Realms or Dogs of War at this point. They need exciting cool stuff to get people back in the game. Another human faction that's a minor twist on existing factions isn't going to set the world alight. Chaos Dwarves and then Nagash would be my bet, and we get a tease for Nagash in the chaos dwarf release stuff.

I didn't mean they would release on that order. I just think there is a plan in place for those being made right now. And i think those would require major GW planing as they will probably be very important to the old world. Having Wh3 being sister product to the old world seems like a very win win scenario.

Obviously CA will be working alongside lord packs (for wh3 races) and maybe champions pack (empire and Vampire Counts could easily do one of these packs for these races)

Odinsmana · Feb 7, 2023

oddjobs said:
Calculating generously, they are probably 6-9 months behind their intended schedule by now, and I don't think they will stretch the support window any longer due to that.

This is the thing that worries me as well. I have zero doubt that they are planning to support the game for a while, but the longer it takes before they begin the less stuff we will probably get and if the managment/publisher/GW issues that are stopping them from getting stuff done now are not resolved then the content realese schedule will continue to be slow.

It`s kinda facinating how large the after effects of the design decisions around the Realms of Chaos had. If they had gone for a safer (if maybe more boring) small campaign the current situation could maybe have been completely different. If it had followed the WH2 DLC speed we would have been close to the third DLC at this point.

Maledict · Feb 7, 2023

The issue with the realm of chaos campaign wasn't that it was too ambitious. It was that they had multiple external play testers telling them for a long time it wasn't fun, and they just ignored that. It was only when the second team took over did they start making changes that people had been suggesting for a long time. They really committed to a vision long past the point of sanity.

Odinsmana · Feb 7, 2023

Maledict said:
The issue with the realm of chaos campaign wasn't that it was too ambitious. It was that they had multiple external play testers telling them for a long time it wasn't fun, and they just ignored that. It was only when the second team took over did they start making changes that people had been suggesting for a long time. They really committed to a vision long past the point of sanity.

If you are talking about what streamers have said then I would assume that it was too late to completely change things at that point. A lot of the things I heard at least also came from LegendOfTotalWar and I don`t know if I would have considered his advice either if I was a dev considering how differently he plays the games in comparison to the average player and I also frankly don`t know how much I trust his statements based on what I have seen from him. If others have talked about it then I haven`t seen/heard it.

My point was more that the whole Realms of Chaos structure would probably need to change for the launch to be smooth.

Maledict · Feb 7, 2023

Yeah thats fair. It's just disappointing how people saw the issues coming and some really obvious changes weren't made.

yukiiinobattlegaiden · Feb 8, 2023

karnage10 said:
IF my comprehension isn't a mistake You are assuming 1 thing that is wrong.

you are assuming - The longer that CA delays new content the less revenue they make because there will be less player playing.

You see wh2 concurrent players increased with time and with each successive DLC.
We have a gaming company that survives of this phenomenon which is Paradox Development Studios. Heart of Iron IV has also been increasing their playerbase since launch from 8000 in 2016 to around 30000 now. Their all time peak was in October 2022 if i remember correctly.

What i am trying to show is CA isn't on a sprint or on a countdown. IF CA can nail the DLC with good to excellent content they can slowly increase WH3 playerbase to get better profitability.
However if CA makes DLC that is poorly thoughout or very limiting it will have the opposite effect. You can check 3 kingdoms DLC and see that with each content release less and less player were playing the game. This is because the DLC not only didn't resonate with players but also increased issues on the "basic" campaign.

What do you think about the above?

I think that's a perfectly possible scenario as well.

In the end it comes down to two things IMO:

1.) Are they able to keep the player base sufficiently active and satisfied so that their DLCs will do well? I would say that they definitely have some struggles here, going by the recent communication (and lack thereof)
2.) Where is the cut-off point, where it makes more economic sense for CA to put the team(s) currently focused on WH3 to work on something else for the next big game (DLC or otherwise?)

By mismanaging 1.) I think they're in effect bringing 2.) closer and closer.
And whatever has put their longer-term plans in flux (they said they'd finalize the roadmap this year, which is wild considering every DLC pack to date probably took at least a good 9-12 months to move from concept to release) screams to me that the end result will probably be something else than them getting back on track and making quality DLC for years to come.

Double 0 · Feb 8, 2023

View: https://youtu.be/jWKhLAbyWcQ

Anoregon · Feb 8, 2023

Double 0 said:
View: https://youtu.be/jWKhLAbyWcQ

So sounds likely that Chaos Dwarves are the April thing, and then I'd guess the summer and winter releases are lord packs for kislev and cathay (and likely a monogod to go with each)

Odinsmana · Feb 8, 2023

That`s great to hear. Seems like the issues were just with what they could/were allowed to communicate and not the DLC development. If they manage to release the upcoming DLC in the time they think they can then we are back on a good release pace. Can`t wait for April!

Anoregon · Feb 8, 2023

I wonder what level of changes can be reasonably expected in the patches between the three major releases. There is still a whole lot of work to go around when it comes to fixing/boosting existing factions. Off the top of my head, Lizardmen are still due for some attention (mechanically, they have definitely had their share of lords/dlc), Daniel/DoC really need just another look in general, and both Norsca and Ogres are still not quite where they could be.
And that's assuming that existing issues with Kiselv and Cathay get a look with the DLC releases.

yukiiinobattlegaiden · Feb 8, 2023

Anoregon said:
I wonder what level of changes can be reasonably expected in the patches between the three major releases. There is still a whole lot of work to go around when it comes to fixing/boosting existing factions. Off the top of my head, Lizardmen are still due for some attention (mechanically, they have definitely had their share of lords/dlc), Daniel/DoC really need just another look in general, and both Norsca and Ogres are still not quite where they could be.
And that's assuming that existing issues with Kiselv and Cathay get a look with the DLC releases.

We know that there's a proper Norsca rework planned.

Odinsmana · Feb 8, 2023

Anoregon said:
I wonder what level of changes can be reasonably expected in the patches between the three major releases. There is still a whole lot of work to go around when it comes to fixing/boosting existing factions. Off the top of my head, Lizardmen are still due for some attention (mechanically, they have definitely had their share of lords/dlc), Daniel/DoC really need just another look in general, and both Norsca and Ogres are still not quite where they could be.
And that's assuming that existing issues with Kiselv and Cathay get a look with the DLC releases.

They will probably continue with somewhat similar patches to what we have been getting to immortal empires, but for major changes to factions and full on reworks I expect that we will get those along with DLC like we have before.

karnage10 · Feb 8, 2023

oddjobs said:
I think that's a perfectly possible scenario as well.

In the end it comes down to two things IMO:

1.) Are they able to keep the player base sufficiently active and satisfied so that their DLCs will do well? I would say that they definitely have some struggles here, going by the recent communication (and lack thereof)
2.) Where is the cut-off point, where it makes more economic sense for CA to put the team(s) currently focused on WH3 to work on something else for the next big game (DLC or otherwise?)

By mismanaging 1.) I think they're in effect bringing 2.) closer and closer.
And whatever has put their longer-term plans in flux (they said they'd finalize the roadmap this year, which is wild considering every DLC pack to date probably took at least a good 9-12 months to move from concept to release) screams to me that the end result will probably be something else than them getting back on track and making quality DLC for years to come.

My point on the previous comment is that Both PDS and CA have proven that number 2 is not real so to speak. Both of those companies have created games that revenue increases with each subsequent DLC so its profitability increases with each DLC assuming management can keep a relatively similar budget / DLC.
It makes more sense to keep a small team "permanently" working on DLC than moving that team to a new game.

Stellaris has basically 2 DLC every year and keeps around 10k to 20k ccu since 2016. The cut of point isn't really the "time" but the type of content. Crusader kings 2 still had quite a few players before it was "killed" so that PDS could work on CK3. That was because the game had so much content added that its features were basically hidden in menus inside other menus. It became clear that PDS couldn't add more fun systems within the mechanics of the game.

What i am trying to say is profitability isn't tied with "time" but with "quality" of the DLC. If CA can make great DLC they can easily expand the playerbase and that would give a constant revenue that might even keep increasing with each consequent DLC.

Double 0 said:
View: https://youtu.be/jWKhLAbyWcQ

He looks super sad to my eyes. I hope everything is alright.

Doukou · Feb 10, 2023

karnage10 said:
He looks super sad to my eyes. I hope everything is alright.

There's been a lot of negativity aimed at community managers off on Reddit/other forums, which is what I think promoted this video more than anything so I doubt he's happy about it

Anoregon · Feb 10, 2023

I think I know the real "Chaos Dwarf" DLC coming:

Coatl mounts
Horned one buffs
Ark of sotek for all dinos
Oxyotl gets a machine gun
Stegadons with wings

Dinos. Just more Dinos.
Weapon strength buffs for all saurus/temple guard
Astromancy stance now lets you ambush
Rite that make skaven taste better
Friendly neighborhood Nakai gets a skateboard

karnage10 · Feb 11, 2023

Anoregon said:
I think I know the real "Chaos Dwarf" DLC coming:

Coatl mounts
Horned one buffs
Ark of sotek for all dinos
Oxyotl gets a machine gun
Stegadons with wings

Dinos. Just more Dinos.
Weapon strength buffs for all saurus/temple guard
Astromancy stance now lets you ambush
Rite that make skaven taste better
Friendly neighborhood Nakai gets a skateboard

Truly the greatest of DLC. Would make the game much more replayable!

FellowTarnished · Feb 12, 2023

Can someone help me out, I've just started playing TW3 and I'm a bit confused. I can see enemies but I can't attack them, and they can't seem to attack me? It says they're an enemy army but they just seem to follow me around not doing anything.

Hella · Feb 12, 2023

FellowTarnished said:
Can someone help me out, I've just started playing TW3 and I'm a bit confused. I can see enemies but I can't attack them, and they can't seem to attack me? It says they're an enemy army but they just seem to follow me around not doing anything.

Just follow your objectives and the tutorial will guide you through things. I remember finding it confusing even as a Total War vet, mostly due to how scripted it was, which threw me off too. Didn't run into this exact issue but it's similar--it only lets you do things that bring you to your objective; it's basically a crash course in the basics with very little practical use. (Though I'll admit I kinda like its little story.)

The full campaigns do not restrict you at all.

yukiiinobattlegaiden · Feb 13, 2023

Total War Warhammer 3 turns 1 year old this friday
Rich Aldridge mentioned that anniversary in his video

I think there's a good chance that we get the patch around that time
(plz also some RoR's and a FLC lord)

Kaffeemann · Feb 13, 2023

View: https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1625072347391700993?cxt=HHwWgsC9iZSstY0tAAAA

Anoregon · Feb 13, 2023

cool, hope we get some info or at least teases for things to come later this year. I imagine we are still a few weeks away from Chorf official reveal.

yukiiinobattlegaiden · Feb 15, 2023

I've been enjoying this mod:

Singe's Lord Skills compilation

It gives all legendary lords in the game a new set of 4 extra skills which further makes them more specialized as far as army composition goes. Some of the stuff is OP as hell, but you can get Mazdamundi a passive shield that reflects missiles, goddamnit. How cool is that?

Kaffeemann · Feb 16, 2023

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqhc3mK06r0

Total War: WARHAMMER III - Patch 2.4.0

Total War: WARHAMMER III's first update of 2023 brings the usual bug fixes and visual improvements, but most crucially of all it delivers a huge change - the Great Bastion into Immortal Empires has been breached!

www.totalwar.com

Immortal Empires available to all owners of Warhammer 3!
Most disappointing patch notes ever!
The duality of CA!

Toño · Feb 16, 2023

Opening IE for every Warhammer 3 owner is huge.

Skade · Feb 16, 2023

Small tease for the Chaos Dwarves at the end of the trailer i think.

Wunder · Feb 16, 2023

epic trailer

Classy Tomato · Feb 16, 2023

Kaffeemann said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqhc3mK06r0

Total War: WARHAMMER III - Patch 2.4.0

Total War: WARHAMMER III's first update of 2023 brings the usual bug fixes and visual improvements, but most crucially of all it delivers a huge change - the Great Bastion into Immortal Empires has been breached!

www.totalwar.com

Immortal Empires available to all owners of Warhammer 3!
Most disappointing patch notes ever!
The duality of CA!

Hopefully, the game will be discounted as well when the patch launches.

Hella · Feb 16, 2023

Besides, the time for fear comes later…

Tmespe · Feb 16, 2023

I assume 3.0 is close. If not, those are some very disappointing notes.

Toño · Feb 16, 2023

Tmespe said:
I assume 3.0 is close. If not, those are some very disappointing notes.

They expect to release a new DLCs this April, Summer, and Fall.

Anno · Feb 16, 2023

In a series that has a ton of really good trailers, that might be the best.

Total Warhammer III |OT| The Age of Reckoning

IS TOTAL WAR: WARHAMMER III GOING TO BE SET DURING THE END TIMES AND FEATURE STUFF FROM AGE OF SIGMAR?

Fight Sephiroth or end video games

Fight Sephiroth or end video games

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