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aspiring

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Oct 25, 2017
2,545
It isn't? And it's not what we're debating. We're debating whether people listing Game Pass "tells all" and it doesn't on it's own, since Microsoft could release a hundred first party games and they'd all land on Game Pass. Equally if every Sony's first party was on PS Now day one, you would see many answering PS Now, which again on it's own wouldn't say anything about the first party line-up.



You're welcome to point out where I've said anything to the contrary. I think you're misunderstanding what we're discussing here.

My point is though that sure people might list gamepass but not everyone would either buy it and no games. There would be people such as me that would buy, for example, halo infinite and not play on gamepass. You are right in that sure I painted it all with one brush in a way, it obviously does not tel all. But it does show that their is not much in terms of a launch line up exclusive.
 

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,035
As for the Remake debate I see it like this:
Imagine the Mona Lisa painting
A remaster would be taking that original painting and giving it a new coat of paint and cleaning up some of the scuffs and marks.
A remake would be somebody taking a brand new canvas, brand new paints and tools and trying to replicate that original painting while making sure to try and improve everything about it.

As for the topic, we will see new games running on the X soon. But asking why we have not, is not unfair either.
MS probably has their own schedule they are following and maybe BC was the first step and the new titles running on the X will be showcased closer to launch. I would not be worried.
 

Loud Wrong

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Feb 24, 2020
14,756
We'll see footage when it fits MS's marketing timeline. We don't need to see it. Seeing it won't even matter.
Exactly. They were obviously hindered by the failure of Halo Infinite to resonate with gamers though. I've been happy with the BC coverage as well as coverage of the XSX new features like auto hdr and game swap. They're way ahead of their competition in showing off what their console can do, but there's still a full month for both of them to show a lot more.
 

Bede-x

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Oct 25, 2017
9,715
You are right in that sure I painted it all with one brush in a way, it obviously does not tel all. But it does show that their is not much in terms of a launch line up exclusive.

I would go further and say year one looks weak, but that'll probably depend on how much one likes Halo. In the long run though, their first party is simply so huge now that I have no doubt the games will come.

And for what it's worth I think they had a great year in terms of first party. The games just didn't release in November and some of them weren't exclusive, but as a taste of what's to come, I couldn't be happier.
 

Jump_Button

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Oct 27, 2017
1,816
I really dont think MS was ready they did think they had a trump card in Halo but we all know how that ended, they nothing to really put it to the test yet
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
14,756
343i's next Halo game being your trump card is such a strange proposition to me.



I think a lot of people would argue otherwise, be interesting to see where the numbers are once supply chains restock and stabilize.
How could anyone argue otherwise? One company literally put their console in the hands of previewers over a month in advance and the other showed it off quickly in a controlled environment where the OS and features couldn't be shown. MS is unquestionably ahead in showing off what their console and OS/features can do.
 

christocolus

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Oct 27, 2017
14,934
Exactly. They were obviously hindered by the failure of Halo Infinite to resonate with gamers though. I've been happy with the BC coverage as well as coverage of the XSX new features like auto hdr and game swap. They're way ahead of their competition in showing off what their console can do, but there's still a full month for both of them to show a lot more.
Agreed.
 

Ambient

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Dec 23, 2017
7,296
Halo got delayed and that probably caused their entire marketing run up to launch to change.

Hell I was just in a convenience store and saw Halo Infinite branded energy drinks so obviously that was going to be the main focus of this launch.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Because one's shown off next-gen games running on a next-gen system extensively and one hasn't, like it or lump it, the main reason people buy next gen consoles isn't to play last gen's games or for what the OS looks like.
343i's next Halo game being your trump card is such a strange proposition to me.

I think a lot of people would argue otherwise, be interesting to see where the numbers are once supply chains restock and stabilize.

Why is Halo Infinite being a trump card a strange proposition when the only real next gen game launching on the other is a remake?
 

Loud Wrong

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Feb 24, 2020
14,756
Because one's shown off next-gen games running on a next-gen system extensively and one hasn't, like it or lump it, the main reason people buy next gen consoles isn't to play last gen's games or for what the OS looks like.
They've both shown next gen games. Only one has shown off how their new console improves old games and new OS features. My point stands. For me as a consumer, Sony needs to do more than say their console plays most old games. Especially when MS shows old games running with auto HDR. There is no comparison here about who has shown more.
 

Shirkelton

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Aug 20, 2020
6,176
Why is Halo Infinite being a trump card a strange proposition when the only real next gen game on the other is a remake?

I'm not sure what those two thoughts have to do with each other in your mind? I think Halo: Infinite being described as a trump card is weird because 343 have a rough development history that's been fraught with some pretty poor launches with the series and hanging your hat on them doesn't seem like a goo idea for obvious reasons.
 

Deleted member 45460

User requested account closure
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Jun 27, 2018
1,492
IGN accidentally put up Yakuza Like A Dragon gameplay for 10 minutes on Friday, and Jeff Grubb is testing 120 fps on twitter. I think we'll see Yakuza and Dirt 5 this week, maybe even tomorrow, running on Series X.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
I'm not sure what those two thoughts have to do with each other in your mind? I think Halo: Infinite being described as a trump card is weird because 343 have a rough development history that's been fraught with some pretty poor launches with the series and hanging your hat on them doesn't seem like a goo idea for obvious reasons.
Halo 5 has a metacritic of 84, not 64, and the name is what brought Xbox on the map.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
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Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Why is Halo Infinite being a trump card a strange proposition when the only real next gen game launching on the other is a remake?

What do you mean by real next-gen game? If you mean next-gen only, Demon Souls, Destruction Allstars, Godfall and Astro's Playroom are all next-gen only. And there will likely be several more next-gen only titles on both new systems by the time Halo Infinite actually launches.
 

Shirkelton

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Aug 20, 2020
6,176
Halo 5 has a metacritic of 84, not 64, and the name is what brought Xbox on the map.

That's nice for them and for Halo 5? Do you think the Halo brand is as strong as it was in the Halo 2, 3, Reach days? Obviously not. One of the games they put out was straight up broken for months on end and Halo: Infinite no longer has a clear release date because the first glimpse of it was so poor. That 343 has had troubles with the Halo series surely isn't in question at this point?
 

Loud Wrong

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Feb 24, 2020
14,756
'Extensively' and Microsoft hasn't shown off anything confirmed to be Series X yet, as far as I'm aware.
Who cares who showed the game as long as it's shown running on the console? This argument is stupid anyway. There's absolutely no refuting that by putting the actual console in peoples hands already and letting them show off it's features that they're ahead in showing what their console can do so far.
 

Indy_Rex

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Sep 20, 2020
759
How could anyone argue otherwise? One company literally put their console in the hands of previewers over a month in advance and the other showed it off quickly in a controlled environment where the OS and features couldn't be shown. MS is unquestionably ahead in showing off what their console and OS/features can do.

MS has me convinced there's no actual next-gen XB games because with less than a month to go I've yet to see a single game running on it that isn't something from last gen.

MS is ahead in showing off a lot of features that don't justify me spending $500+ on a next-gen console when it launches. Sony on the other hand, has given me at least 5 reasons for it.

I'm sure MS will get there eventually, but I'm not spending money on a next-gen console for last-gen games and "auto HDR/quick resume". I'm doing fine without any of those things, and I've played the games already... I'm quite literally not going back to play something I've already played just b/c "4k".

I think this is the weirdest argument pro-XB consumers have. That somehow MS is ahead because they've shown off arbitrary (useful, but arbitrary) features for a next-game games console, while y'know... omitting the primary driving force for its existence: "next-gen games".

It's also strange to see people's arguments boil down to "playing xbox one games better than ever before on the most powerful games console ever" when, we quite literally heard the same argument for a $500 XB console less than 3 years ago. In less than 7 years people will have spent $1500+ just to play Xbox One games... like, what?

EDIT: Also of note, the people who have gotten XSX units to talk about have also mentioned restrictions for the games they can play. Not "I'm not allowed to play ____" but rather "MS won't allow the system to play ____ game in BC" which is another weird point against how that's been handled. MS is as restrictive as Sony in terms of how they want their messaging to unfold. Sony's just openly saying "this is what you can talk about."
 
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Iron Eddie

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Nov 25, 2019
9,812
What do you mean by real next-gen game? If you mean next-gen only, Demon Souls, Destruction Allstars, Godfall and Astro's Playroom are all next-gen only. And there will likely be several more next-gen only titles on both systems by the time Halo Infinite actually launches.
You're right I keep forgetting about those others because Demon's Souls looks impressive, the others don't regardless of next gen only or not. You're only contribution on this about Series X is to talk about PS5?

That's nice for them and for Halo 5? Do you think the Halo brand is as strong as it was in the Halo 2, 3, Reach days? Obviously not. One of the games they put out was straight up broken for months on end and Halo: Infinite no longer has a clear release date because the first glimpse of it was so poor. That 343 has had troubles with the Halo series surely isn't in question at this point?

It's still a big IP whether you think it is or not.

Poor destruction all-stars :(

Sorry. It may do well given the limited titles which always happens at launch.
 

jroc74

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Oct 27, 2017
29,364
As far as remake vs remaster...

TLoU and Shadow Complex Remastered. God of War 3, Uncharted Collection.

All remasters

Compare those to Demons Souls...Remake.
 

aspiring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,545
I would go further and say year one looks weak, but that'll probably depend on how much one likes Halo. In the long run though, their first party is simply so huge now that I have no doubt the games will come.

And for what it's worth I think they had a great year in terms of first party. The games just didn't release in November and some of them weren't exclusive, but as a taste of what's to come, I couldn't be happier.

oh no I agree. The Bethesda purchase cemented my purchase in their platform. It's not the BGS games I want the the ones around it such as Ar and iD. Gonna get some world class exclusives.

also for what it's worth I have said before, but besides graphically, I thought Halo looks amazing and I can't wait to dive in.

I honest have no horse in this race. I continue to own all platforms, as each has their positives that IMO are worth owning for. Just I'm not the sort of person who will not call out something that I think is not good is all. And I think sometimes people cannot grasp that without thinking someone is console warring
 

Hendog1981

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Oct 28, 2017
94
Greenberg has stated that we will be getting next gen footage later this month, good thing I'm a very patient person.

I think most of it is just going to be the stuff added to previously released games anyway, so I'm not expecting anything from games that are a good year or two out.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,580
Why is Halo Infinite being a trump card a strange proposition when the only real next gen game launching on the other is a remake?
Considering the work done on it, it's basically a brand new game. It wouldn't be the first time I picked up a system for a remake. I picked up a gamecube for Resident Evil.
 

RivalGT

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Dec 13, 2017
6,453
imagine if we never saw Halo Infinite, and MS was still confident in the game, and it be launching next month with no one ever seeing gameplay...
 

Butch

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Oct 27, 2017
3,440
I think Gamespot's the only one that said that was running on Series X when it was shown off, there was some confusion over that point, but if I'm wrong about that, grand.

I was going by that Gamespot video that says it's running on X, they could be wrong now that you mention it if they are the only ones saying it.
 

Shirkelton

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Aug 20, 2020
6,176
I was going by that Gamespot video that says it's running on X, they could be wrong now that you mention it.

It's a weird situation because from what I recall, they were the only ones that said that and then no one could confirm it.

I think it's whatever, we can pretty safely assume that video is pretty much representative of what it'll look like on Series X and even if we do assume that it actually is, I don't think the core point is really deflated that much, but there was an argument over it back when that footage first started coming out and I still haven't seen anyone say either way, but I could have missed an update somewhere.
 

dose

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Oct 29, 2017
2,516
Ultimately it's going to be the same games we've seen. Looking the same with a note at the bottom of the screw saying it's running on Xbox Series X.
Resolutions, frame rates (will there be drops, will game x be locked at 30/60), will there be more raytracing/detail. All of these questions are unanswered because they've hardly shown anything from the Series X.
 

Shirkelton

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Aug 20, 2020
6,176
It's almost impossible that we see even the fairly small gap in framerates and resolutions that we saw at last launch this time out, certainly not going that way.
 

skillzilla81

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,068
Resolutions, frame rates (will there be drops, will game x be locked at 30/60), will there be more raytracing/detail. All of these questions are unanswered because they've hardly shown anything from the Series X.

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing whether dmc on series x with raytracing runs in a higher resolution than ps5.
 

zerosnake99

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Oct 25, 2018
1,065
You're right I keep forgetting about those others because Demon's Souls looks impressive, the others don't regardless of next gen only or not. You're only contribution on this about Series X is to talk about PS5?
Huh?
Why is Halo Infinite being a trump card a strange proposition when the only real next gen game launching on the other is a remake?
You mentioned the PS5 first.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread any further, but I think gatekeeping like this is not fair to the developers and really muddies the waters in terms of next gen discussion. We all know Halo Infinite had a rough showing but people pretending it'll stay rough are just being disingenuous. There really is no need to put down any game or developer that appears to be putting in their heart and soul into the project.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,305
Exactly. They were obviously hindered by the failure of Halo Infinite to resonate with gamers though. I've been happy with the BC coverage as well as coverage of the XSX new features like auto hdr and game swap. They're way ahead of their competition in showing off what their console can do, but there's still a full month for both of them to show a lot more.
Pretty much, they've said they're going to more footage this month. Either way, all I need to know is that it's a next-gen console, and the most powerful one to boot. Not really sure what people are worried about, the games are going to look great.
 

Shirkelton

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Aug 20, 2020
6,176
Yea. It's just not aimed at people who really care about graphics or performance that much. More casual players and people with young children.

Yeah, I mean, they got to show off something substantial and I'm sure they will, but I don't think you'll see consistent videos showing where exactly the S falls between the X and One X, that's just a really weird way to frame a sales pitch even before getting into the fact that it's not really the audience they should be going for with that console.
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
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Apr 17, 2020
15,438
'Extensively' and Microsoft hasn't shown off anything confirmed to be Series X yet, as far as I'm aware.
Yakuza was shown running on Xbox Series X.
EDIT: Also of note, the people who have gotten XSX units to talk about have also mentioned restrictions for the games they can play. Not "I'm not allowed to play ____" but rather "MS won't allow the system to play ____ game in BC" which is another weird point against how that's been handled. MS is as restrictive as Sony in terms of how they want their messaging to unfold. Sony's just openly saying "this is what you can talk about."
Is this your first time you noticed embargos? It's about giving the outlets time to check out features, games and all that without being under pressure that the competition are putting out clickbait articles before you have written yours. That's pretty straightforward and they aren't hidding anything. There's nothing weird about it.

Besides not allowing them to play everything prevents leaks better than asking them to not leak stuff. Gameplay is lacking, but the rest of the information is out there and someone putting the console into hands of journalist, influencer, ... and consumers earlier (if they win at the otto offer here in germany) is suddenly restrictive? Come on now.
 
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