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ScubaSteve693

Banned
Mar 26, 2020
680
Which you are wrong about, it is a remake. This is also about Xbox here and your in the wrong thread as you are trolling at this point about a ps5 game.
Quite defensive here when I wasn't even the one who mentioned Demon's Souls in the first place, and even outright stated this thread wasn't about Demon's Souls. I'll give you a pat on the head for trying, I can see you are but it isn't that effective.
One of the best games ever made (Re: remake) it's a remake and no one would dare to say it didn't count as a new game back then. This is not a remaster we're taking about. I swear I couldn't care less about playstation vs xbox and I'm getting a series x, just wanted to say that.
Bingo.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
im buying a console on day one. Id like to see some gameplay from the system itself running next gen optimized games. Why does it bother you that people want to see that?

also for the third damn time. Just because someone is concerned over something regarding a console doesnt mean they are trying to sow seeds of doubt in peoples minds to secure a win for their favorite box. People who assume so every time someone expresses any concern come off as paranoid and boot lickers at worst
I'm not sure if that will really answer your concerns though until reviews come out.
 

Indy_Rex

Banned
Sep 20, 2020
759
You just keep repeating the same thing over and over with no intent of actually debating the topic.

So if a remake is a new game, let's just say the enhanced for Series X games are as well. Why does Sony have so few games and why do I have to pay for them?!?!

Yes I'm not serious, but I'm also on team remake is not a new game... Because it's a remake

Except, those aren't remakes. They're literally the same game with added visual flare, like the SM "remaster" for PS5, or DMC5 SE. It's got RT, but it's literally the same game with extras.

A remake ala SOTC/Twin Snakes/RE2/RE3 are ground-up remakes using new tech that only share common traits or mechanics with the originals. Nobody's going to look at Demon's Souls and say "I already played this." but they wouldn't say the same thing about "Gears 5 in 4k with raytracing" because.... it's Gears 5 in 4k with ray tracing, it's not a substantive rework of an existing product.

Demon's Souls is a completely new product for all intents and purposes, with new features. Nobody can say the same for "Xbox One games with XSX enhancements" like Gears 5, Gears Tactics or Minecraft RT.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
I don't think it is concerning, games will be there, no doubt,but at least highlights hypocrisy of a few that have been bypassing this far and
You just keep repeating the same thing over and over with no intent of actually debating the topic.

So if a remake is a new game, let's just say the enhanced for Series X games are as well. Why does Sony have so few games and why do I have to pay for them?!?!

Yes I'm not serious, but I'm also on team remake is not a new game... Because it's a remake
So resident evil 2 remake is not a new game?
It is a game built with ps5 in mind, it has technically almost nothing in common with the original one. Ratchet also has been shown running on ps5 hardware, Godfall, even bugsnax. All new games running on ps5 hardware.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,467
Quite defensive here when I wasn't even the one who mentioned Demon's Souls in the first place, and even outright stated this thread wasn't about Demon's Souls. I'll give you a pat on the head for trying, I can see you are but it isn't that effective.
Im not the one arguing the same game is not the same game. LOL. The games story and areas are pretty much the same as well as most of the combat. Its an updated version of an older game.
 

ScubaSteve693

Banned
Mar 26, 2020
680
Im not the one arguing the same game is not the same game. LOL. The games story and areas are pretty much the same as well as most of the combat. Its an updated version of an older game.
It is a game, based off of a 2009 game, remade into a NEW form for 2020. It is a new game, just like RE Remake was, just like RE2 Remake was, RE3 remake. All games that were made NEW by their remake status.
 

ScubaSteve693

Banned
Mar 26, 2020
680
Remakes are new games, remasters are not, how can any of you even argue otherwise?
I am of the same stance, a remaster is an upres of a game, 720p to 1080p, maybe a frame rate increase but beyond that, no noticeable changes. A remake is a game being completely remade, from the ground up, new textures, new art, new AI, improved systems. A lot more goes into a remake than a remaster, hence making it a new game.
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
14,679
Remakes are new games, remasters are not, how can any of you even argue otherwise?
Part of the confusion could be that the game is referred to as a remaster online as often as it is a remake. As a fan of the original, I hope to god it's more remaster than remake. I don't care one bit what Bluepoint has to contribute to the Souls genre when working from FROMs original. Sony's own description of the game makes me worry less. They mostly just refer to enhanced graphics and performance.
 

Brohan

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,544
Netherlands
Isn't the definition of remake: "to make anew"?

Anyways, regardless of the definition.. a remake is a new game and I don't see why it's being argued.
 

Devilgunman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,474
a remade game is a new game

I don't get this argument. Is a remake of an old movie not a new film? Of course it is.

I'm quite bafflled that we are even debating this. RE2 Remake or DS Remake are new games because they contains massive amount of new assets that aren't available in the original versions. It's not just the old games with higher resolution or fps.
 

Kabuki Waq

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,881
Regardless for the purpose of showing what next gen is capable of demon souls was amazing and cleary was made with a lot of love. Not one game has showed that much promise on XSX. I hope games like Valhalla will show off the XSX.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,467
Remakes are new games, you can stomp your feet all you want you're still wrong.
Part of the confusion could be that the game is referred to as a remaster online as often as it is a remake. As a fan of the original, I hope to god it's more remaster than remake. I don't care one bit what Bluepoint has to contribute to the Souls genre when working from FROMs original. Sony's own description of the game makes me worry less. They mostly just refer to enhanced graphics and performance.
Fanboyism is how. Nobody would argue FFVII Remake is not a new game, nobody should argue that Demon's Souls 2020 is not a new game either.
I'm quite bafflled that we are even debating this. RE2 Remake or DS Remake are new games because they contains massive amount of new assets that aren't available in the original versions. It's not just the old games with higher resolution or fps.

Let's start with something simpler and more commonsense. What is the difference between a remake and a remaster? For Yoshinori Kitase, the producer of "Final Fantasy VII: Remake," the answer is clear.
"If the characters, world settings/lore, and game design can still pass in the modern day, but the graphics need to be updated, then that would be considered a 'remaster,'" wrote Kitase in an email to The Post. "As for 'Final Fantasy VII,' not only did the original graphics feel outdated, but I felt the turn-based battle design also felt dated for a modern audience, and so we decided to reimagine the title as a 'remake.'"
'Prince of Persia,' Ubisoft's long-missing star, returns for a 'Sands of Time' remake
"Final Fantasy VII," first released in 1997, is widely viewed as one of the most influential games of all time, helping to shape the landscape of gaming in the decade which followed its release. This year's remake of the game brought with it substantial changes. First, it shifted the core battle mechanics from a turn-based system to a more action-focused one. It also only remade a chunk of the original, expanding the Midgar section of the 1997 game — initially only around five hours long — into a 40+ hour deep dive.
AD


Kitase added, however, that Square Enix doesn't abide by a clear definition for either remake or remaster. The labeling, in practice, is fluid. After all, the term "remake," if broken down to its component parts, implies some kind of fidelity to the original. But by Kitase's distinction, a remake might entail dramatic changes to a game's story or gameplay. And what happens if the changes to gameplay and story stray in significant ways from the source material?





Enjoy!!
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
42,950
it's always hilarious when people double, triple, quadruple down on a bad take even tho everyone is telling them how bad that take it.
 

Butch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,439
[/QUOTE]
No they arent, a new game has new story etc. Remaking a game to make look better and or play a little differently is not. You can look at both versions and still tell they are Demons souls.

I'm sorry but you argument just doesn't make sense.
A remake is a new game. A remaster is simply not. Can't we move on from this?
 

Brohan

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,544
Netherlands
Let's start with something simpler and more commonsense. What is the difference between a remake and a remaster? For Yoshinori Kitase, the producer of "Final Fantasy VII: Remake," the answer is clear.
"If the characters, world settings/lore, and game design can still pass in the modern day, but the graphics need to be updated, then that would be considered a 'remaster,'" wrote Kitase in an email to The Post. "As for 'Final Fantasy VII,' not only did the original graphics feel outdated, but I felt the turn-based battle design also felt dated for a modern audience, and so we decided to reimagine the title as a 'remake.'"
'Prince of Persia,' Ubisoft's long-missing star, returns for a 'Sands of Time' remake
"Final Fantasy VII," first released in 1997, is widely viewed as one of the most influential games of all time, helping to shape the landscape of gaming in the decade which followed its release. This year's remake of the game brought with it substantial changes. First, it shifted the core battle mechanics from a turn-based system to a more action-focused one. It also only remade a chunk of the original, expanding the Midgar section of the 1997 game — initially only around five hours long — into a 40+ hour deep dive.
AD


Kitase added, however, that Square Enix doesn't abide by a clear definition for either remake or remaster. The labeling, in practice, is fluid. After all, the term "remake," if broken down to its component parts, implies some kind of fidelity to the original. But by Kitase's distinction, a remake might entail dramatic changes to a game's story or gameplay. And what happens if the changes to gameplay and story stray in significant ways from the source material?




Enjoy!!

You are using a quote to prove you are right while the one who made that quote says that they don't abide by a clear definition for either Remaster or Remake.

I don't think this proves your point.

Also you said that the story has to be different for something to be considered new. This isn't right at all. Just look at the countless movies that are remakes of older cinema.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,467
You are using a quote to prove you are right while the one who made that quote says that they don't abide by a clear definition for either Remaster or Remake.

I don't think this proves your point.

Also you said that the story has to be different for something to be considered new. This isn't right at all. Just look at the countless movies that are remakes of older cinema.
I dont care if its called a remaster or a remake at the end of the day. All I am saying is that Demons Souls is a remake/remaster what ever they hell you want to call it of the same game. Its not a new game, it is the same story. It is a new game in the fact that it only plays on the ps5, but as the orginal person was stating before this all went down. They have played a version of Demon Souls and for the most part the core part of the game itself is the same. I think this went off the rails for naming conventions.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
I dont care if its called a remaster or a remake at the end of the day. All I am saying is that Demons Souls is a remake/remaster what ever they hell you want to call it of the same game. Its not a new game, it is the same story. It is a new game in the fact that it only plays on the ps5, but as the orginal person was stating before this all went down. They have played a version of Demon Souls and for the most part the core part of the game itself is the same. I think this went off the rails for naming conventions.
Re- make. It is made from 0 again, which is the point of the thread, games made from 0 for new consoles, regardless if they are based on a previous game.

Re master is a game with improvements using the same engine assets etc
 
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Oct 25, 2017
7,534
I dont care if its called a remaster or a remake at the end of the day. All I am saying is that Demons Souls is a remake/remaster what ever they hell you want to call it of the same game. Its not a new game, it is the same story. It is a new game in the fact that it only plays on the ps5, but as the orginal person was stating before this all went down. They have played a version of Demon Souls and for the most part the core part of the game itself is the same. I think this went off the rails for naming conventions.

It had the budget of a new game, it's a new game. You think they didn't make new code, create new art assets and all that stuff. Oh but it follows the same story of that game, not a new game. It's such a ridiculous argument from you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,467
It had the budget of a new game, it's a new game. You think they didn't make new code, create new art assets and all that stuff. Oh but it follows the same story of that game, not a new game. It's such a ridiculous argument from you.
Then by the same means a remaster is a remake by that definition. As it also has "new code, create new art assets and all that stuff."
 

Indy_Rex

Banned
Sep 20, 2020
759
I dont care if its called a remaster or a remake at the end of the day. All I am saying is that Demons Souls is a remake/remaster what ever they hell you want to call it of the same game. Its not a new game, it is the same story.

By your argument:

RE1 Remake follows the same story as RE1
RE2 Remake follows the same story as RE2
RE3 Remake follows the same story as RE3

Mafia Definitive Edition follows the same story as Mafia

None of those games are "remasters" because they're not new games, especially for the last one.

Yet, the last one has a completely new game engine based on Mafia III's and is fully re-dubbed and shares nothing in common besides gameplay mechanics that were used in the original. For all intents and purposes: Mafia DE is a new game, it shares nothing in common besides story and some gameplay mechanics.

It is a new game in the fact that it only plays on the ps5, but as the orginal person was stating. They have played a version of Demon Souls and for the most part the core part of the game itself is the same. I think this went off the rails for naming conventions.

I think you're confusing "remake" with "reboot". A remake can be a new thing that shares few, or many similarities with the original, but is otherwise a new product. A reboot shares few things in common with the previous version but is otherwise completely different.
 

Tora

The Enlightened Wise Ones
Member
Jun 17, 2018
8,650
So embarrassing, grown ass people protecting their plastic box from any criticism
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,467
By your argument:

RE1 Remake follows the same story as RE1
RE2 Remake follows the same story as RE2
RE3 Remake follows the same story as RE3

Mafia Definitive Edition follows the same story as Mafia

None of those games are "remasters" because they're not new games, especially for the last one.

Yet, the last one has a completely new game engine based on Mafia III's and is fully re-dubbed and shares nothing in common besides gameplay mechanics that were used in the original. For all intents and purposes: Mafia DE is a new game, it shares nothing in common besides story and some gameplay mechanics.



I think you're confusing "remake" with "reboot". A remake can be a new thing that shares few, or many similarities with the original, but is otherwise a new product. A reboot shares few things in common with the previous version but is otherwise completely different.
All I am saying is that Demon Souls on PS5 is a newer version of Demon Souls on ps3. Its mostly the same game at heart. Take out the remake/ remaster part, I dont care what we call it.
 

Brohan

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,544
Netherlands
Remaster needs new code to implement even new textures or resolution. At some level some code has to be edited.

How can you not see the distinction here? You must be trolling at this point.

A remaster is just a more polished version of the original. Same game, same frame, just enhanced textures and stuff like that.

A remake is made from the ground up. Different engine, different code, different assets, everything has to be painstakingly made anew again. They arent just upressing old textures here.
 

ScubaSteve693

Banned
Mar 26, 2020
680
Remaster needs new code to implement even new textures or resolution. At some level some code has to be edited.
Not even close to the level of which a remake would require, wouldn't even put it in the same stratosphere of a remake. I think you should take a break, you aren't going to win this argument and are clearly the minority in feeling this way.
 

Indy_Rex

Banned
Sep 20, 2020
759
All I am saying is that Demon Souls on PS5 is a newer version of Demon Souls on ps3. Its mostly the same game at heart. Take out the remake/ remaster part, I dont care what we call it.

All Remakes are "new versions of ____" that doesn't make them old games or "remasters". They're still new games (hence "new") a remaster is functionally, visually the original release with new textures, support for higher resolutions, maybe even higher bitrate audio. There's little-to-no change to the original content, it's just presented to a better standard. Like movies going from VHS to Blu-Ray: Same movie, but with a higher quality source for audio/video and, if needed, different color grading.

This whole "it's not a new thing" is a bad take. Go tell any movie buff/film historian/film producer that the 1998, shot-for-shot remake of Psycho is a "remaster"" of the original or "not a new movie"... The reaction won't be pleasant.

EDIT: Fixed use of remake incorrectly to remaster.
 
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Timlot

Banned
Nov 27, 2019
359
So embarrassing, grown ass people protecting their plastic box from any criticism

I don't think the ire should be aimed at the console though. Series X isn't some exotic architecture like the cell processor. Its basically the same chip that's in the PS5 more or less. I think this question should be aimed at the developers. Should they have spent time on some type of demo just for show or continue to work on their project and when its ready to show they will. Video game development is an art and art takes time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,467
All Remakes are "new versions of ____" that doesn't make them old games or "remasters". They're still new games (hence "new") a remake is functionally, visually the original release with new textures, support for higher resolutions, maybe even higher bitrate audio. There's little-to-no change to the original content, it's just presented to a better standard. Like movies going from VHS to Blu-Ray: Same movie, but with a higher quality source for audio/video and, if needed, different color grading.

This whole "it's not a new thing" is a bad take. Go tell any movie buff that the 1998, shot-for-shot remake of Psycho is a "remaster"/"same as the old version" of the original... The answer won't be pleasant.


But we've seen Demons Souls before. It's not new.

I never said it was exactly the same. But as the original poster from where this all started from stated. It is not all new. The pathing, the enemies, and game play is mostly the same. So by that respect part of it is similar to the point of being familiar. Its not NEW, like Demon Souls 2 would be.

www.youtube.com

Demon's Souls PS3 vs Demon's Souls PS5 (Remake)

Demon's Souls PS3 vs PS5 Remake Graphics Comparison#DemonsSouls #DemonsSoulsPS5

Since I apparently agreed with the original poster, it has devolved into a point of semantics for remaster vs remake. Which probably carried on too far here as well. Which is my fault and I am sorry. We can agree to disagree on what is new vs what is not, I will leave the thread here with that, apologies.
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
Yea, unfortunately for Microsoft they're still very much lacking in producing great games build around their IP's or new IP's in general. Although I very much dislike their purchase of Bethesda as it might have a major impact on the TES and Fallout games coming to PS5, I do hope that the studio's Microsoft owns will help them on that front.

I've actually been thinking about Microsoft not showing any actual footage on the Series X. As far as I can tell, at this point, Microsoft itself has kind of nothing to show when in it comes to gameplay. Games such as Avowed, State of Decay, Fable, etc. are still years away and Halo, well we all know how well the development is going for that one.

What if, Microsoft had hoped to showcase a bunch of third-party titles like Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed, etc. but those companies basically said no? At that point, Microsoft would have to rely on all of their games that are series X compatible. This is all pure speculation of course, but it does feel like Microsoft is planning to launch a console with no games for it, except the ''play this Xbox One X game on Xbox Series X' type games. Which is nice, but might also be the reason that's causing this issue to begin with. They're adamant of making sure all of their titles work on both generations.
The culprit is Covid, because the virus made development harder imo and therefore slow down progress. For those who don't know making a gameplay demo takes time and a few teams members away from the current build in development. Thus Xbox decided to prioritize the development of the games over many gameplay demos according to Aaron iirc.

It's disappointing imo, but nothing to worry about. Gameplay will come end of the month finally. In addition I wouldn't worry and think every game is years away. They'll have games in 2021 and if we get Forza Horizon or FM, then we are in for treat. Starfield is rumored to release 2021, too. Just be patient, because there was never a year in the last decades without XGS releases. Something like this just doesn't happen, especially when they now have over 20 studios and many got multiple teams.
 

Tora

The Enlightened Wise Ones
Member
Jun 17, 2018
8,650
I don't think the ire should be aimed at the console though. Series X isn't some exotic architecture like the cell processor. Its basically the same chip that's in the PS5 more or less. I think this question should be aimed at the developers. Should they have spent time on some type of demo just for show or continue to work on their project and when its ready to show they will. Video game development is an art and art takes time.
I completely agree and I don't really mind that we haven't seen anything.

It is also fair to ask why we haven't seen anything either, you shouldn't get dogged on or treated like a troll for asking that.
 
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