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Gibordep

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,282
What are the odds that PS5 does both PS4 and PS3 disc BC?

I think it would be the same of doing PS4 and PS3 digital. The PS5 will have BR (99,99 %) so there is no technical reason for doing Digital BC and not Disc BC. The disc and PSN is only necessary to install the game on the disc and to doing the initial DRM.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
This doesn't solve the "new console" part, but it solves your "new controller" issue.

For about $20, buy a Mayflash and you can use any controller you want on your PS3. I use a DS4 and this makes the home button work, rumble works, everything. All wireless.

https://www.amazon.com/Mayflash-Magic-NS-Wireless-Controller-Nintendo/dp/B079B5KHWQ/

Or you can just use a DS4 without an adapter, but the home button and rumble won't work.

Using a PS3 in 2019 is an awful experience. The UI, and PSN/downloading games is very slow.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
That seems a lot like Pro -> Ps4 bc which has the system crippling the faster processor to behave like the less powerful one.

That part about allowing assets to be replaced by higher rez versions I don't even know how they manage to patent that. It's used on many emulators these days.
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2019
502
That seems a lot like Pro -> Ps4 bc which has the system crippling the faster processor to behave like the less powerful one.

That part about allowing assets to be replaced by higher rez versions I don't even know how they manage to patent that. It's used on many emulators these days.

I am not sure I follow, what is this about? Also I am pretty sure this is not the case at all..boost mode was launched like over a year or more ago.
 
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elektrixx

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,923
Sounds good, but it's not for me. I play old games pretty often, but would not want to rely on a closed system by a company largely bound to the rules of the original publisher of a game for availability, or not demonstrating the benefits of more powerful hardware and the unique advantages of emulation.

Preserving games is important, but I can only rely on myself to preserve my game saves. No longer will I fire up a new console, buy a ROM that I've already owned five times, start off without your original save and expect to repeat the process a few years later with nothing to carry over.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
Sounds good, but it's not for me. I play old games pretty often, but would not want to rely on a closed system by a company largely bound to the rules of the original publisher of a game for availability, or not demonstrating the benefits of more powerful hardware and the unique advantages of emulation.

Preserving games is important, but I can only rely on myself to preserve my game saves. No longer will I fire up a new console, buy a ROM that I've already owned five times, start off without your original save and expect to repeat the process a few years later with nothing to carry over.

So you don't like what Xbox is doing with BC? Because they right now are setting the standard in how you can do BC and enhance old games to feel fresh again. Played gears 3 over at my friends house who has an X and hollyshit I wanted an X.

If they continue to support it and add more games from og XBOX I might get an xbox next gen just for that if the price is right. Either that or when the xbox one x get's to 249$ I'll snag one and use it for all my XBox 360, and OG games.
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2019
502
So you don't like what Xbox is doing with BC? Because they right now are setting the standard in how you can do BC and enhance old games to feel fresh again. Played gears 3 over at my friends house who has an X and hollyshit I wanted an X.

If they continue to support it and add more games from og XBOX I might get an xbox next gen just for that if the price is right. Either that or when the xbox one x get's to 249$ I'll snag one and use it for all my XBox 360, and OG games.
MS is doing a lot of good things on this front..but the standard? Like 10% of the 360 library is actually BC, they do not have full BC on xbox at all and it's not close. It can be way better, full BC alone is way better and it's been done before. PC is the bastion of BC.
 
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billion

Member
Dec 22, 2017
34
Can someone try and explain like i'm 5 as to why Sony is creating patents for backwards compatibility? What technologies is Sony putting in place that's so ground breaking? Isn't backwards compatibility straightforward in the programming world / engineering world?
 

Bold One

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
18,911
Ps4 BC would ring-fence a large portion of the current ps4 audience which kills the competition outright. It would be daft not to have it, as for the PS3... That's a toss up.
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2019
502
Can someone try and explain like i'm 5 as to why Sony is creating patents for backwards compatibility? What technologies is Sony putting in place that's so ground breaking? Isn't backwards compatibility straightforward in the programming world / engineering world?
LOL no....there is a reason only about 10% of 360 library is actually BC with the one right now. BC especially with different architecture is complex, especially when you throw in weird tech like cell to go along with X86.. As for the patent? Companies patent stuff more inane then this all the time, only sony knows why.
 

Deleted member 15311

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,088
The PS1 and PS2 libraries are ridiculously strong though, which is what excites me (well, PS1 I've had access to for ages with PSP and Vita - it's PS2 that really gets me going).
So does the X360, that didn't stop lots and lots of posts about how no one wants to play old games or about it doesn't matter to anyone but a few people, when Xone BC was announced. I think this is what he is getting at. Unless you consider the X360 library small or not worth the BC effort MS made. I don't have the time or patience for it, but i would almost bet that many calling it a system seller are the same ones that shit on MS BC from a high ground.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
User Warned: Accusing other members of astroturfing
Emulation isn't good enough, they need to improve the games.

People have different perspectives. I'd rather have full BC than a small percentage of games. I also think that PS1 games don't really need a resolution bump, for example.

So you don't like what Xbox is doing with BC? Because they right now are setting the standard in how you can do BC and enhance old games to feel fresh again. Played gears 3 over at my friends house who has an X and hollyshit I wanted an X.

If they continue to support it and add more games from og XBOX I might get an xbox next gen just for that if the price is right. Either that or when the xbox one x get's to 249$ I'll snag one and use it for all my XBox 360, and OG games.

Between these types of posts and the constant astroturfing of Game Pass, the gaming side has become frustrating to read in quite a few threads.

So does the X360, that didn't stop lots and lots of posts about how no one wants to play old games or about it doesn't matter to anyone but a few people, when Xone BC was announced. I think this is what he is getting at. Unless you consider the X360 library small or not worth the BC effort MS made. I don't have the time or patience for it, but i would almost bet that many calling it a system seller are the same ones that shit on MS BC from a high ground.

Most people that don't care about BC aren't going to passionately post on a gaming forum about it. Like most other things, when people aren't passionate about something, they don't really talk about it.

I consider Microsoft's BC initiative nice, but not worth the amount of praise it gets. It doesn't have wide-range support. I'm mostly interested in how they leverage their technology for full BC next gen.
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2019
502
People have different perspectives. I'd rather have full BC than a small percentage of games. I also think that PS1 games don't really need a resolution bump, for eample.



Between these types of posts and the constant astroturfing of Game Pass, the gaming side has become frustrating to read in quite a few threads.
Yeah agree, and apparently PS now does not exist because reasons. It's pretty bad, it was literally the first thing I noticed and I only joined two days ago. It shows up in many thread every day, it's insanity.

You are dead on with your first post, Full BC day one is far better then what MS currently does, which in fairness is still better then Sony and N right now lol. BC on Xbox is great but yes it is way over blown it is emulation on select titles not full BC at all. Full BC is were we need to get to not this piece meal stuff.
 

billion

Member
Dec 22, 2017
34
LOL no....there is a reason only about 10% of 360 library is actually BC with the one right now. BC especially with different architecture is complex, especially when you throw in weird tech like cell to go along with X86.. As for the patent? Companies patent stuff more inane then this all the time, only sony knows why.
well doesn't the patent explain the tech involved? I guess I would have to compare Microsoft,Nintendo and Sony BC patents from later years to really see what's changed.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
People have different perspectives. I'd rather have full BC than a small percentage of games. I also think that PS1 games don't really need a resolution bump, for eample.



Between these types of posts and the constant astroturfing of Game Pass, the gaming side has become frustrating to read in quite a few threads.

360/ps3 games a lot different to PS1 games.

If you make PS1 game 4k it will still look like ass.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,472
So does the X360, that didn't stop lots and lots of posts about how no one wants to play old games or about it doesn't matter to anyone but a few people, when Xone BC was announced. I think this is what he is getting at. Unless you consider the X360 library small or not worth the BC effort MS made. I don't have the time or patience for it, but i would almost bet that many calling it a system seller are the same ones that shit on MS BC from a high ground.
I have to admit, I personally don't put the 360 library up there. To give you context where I'm coming from, I consider the 'best library ever' to be a ridiculously messy battle between the PS1, PS2 and DS (with the PS2 probably coming out on top).

The 360 and PS3 libraries are good, where the other three are god-tier.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
well doesn't the patent explain the tech involved? I guess I would have to compare Microsoft,Nintendo and Sony BC patents from later years to really see what's changed.

Sony in years past would have the hardware or part of the hardware embedded in their new console to do BC (with the exception of the PS1 on the PS3/PSP/PSV and PSP on PSV). Microsoft ASFAIK is launching a virtual environment that imitates the 360 and OG Xbox on the Xbox One. Two different situations. Honestly whatever gets to native BC support on the console I'm in favor of.
 

Basarili

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,434
Haarlem
If they add all PSone to PS4 games in a digital environment which they already have with PSNow and make everything downloadable we have the best deal ever.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
Every time the small PS2 Classics library comes up, people make this trophy claim. While it may be a contributing factor, it's most certainly waaaaay down the list, after compatibility issues with the emulator and licensing.

If you've never taken a look at the games that the built-in emulator can actually play and which ones it has major issues with, it's worth a peek: https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps4/PS2_Classics_Emulator_Compatibility_List

There's a reason why we've gotten all those Rockstar games and never Liberty City Stories/Vice City Stories, and it ain't trophies.
Yeah I figured this might be a problem and it's a shame. Is this something a more powerful processor could help with, or would the emulator itself need a lot of development?
 

billion

Member
Dec 22, 2017
34
Sony in years past would have the hardware or part of the hardware embedded in their new console to do BC (with the exception of the PS1 on the PS3/PSP/PSV and PSP on PSV). Microsoft ASFAIK is launching a virtual environment that imitates the 360 and OG Xbox on the Xbox One. Two different situations. Honestly whatever gets to native BC support on the console I'm in favor of.
yeah that makes more sense now. Different approaches for different companies. Gotcha
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
Can someone try and explain like i'm 5 as to why Sony is creating patents for backwards compatibility? What technologies is Sony putting in place that's so ground breaking? Isn't backwards compatibility straightforward in the programming world / engineering world?

Id guess its more to scare of patent trolls than anything else. I wouldnt be surprised if MS had similar patents.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
9,028
This makes me happy in my face.

Definitely means I can finally scrap my PS2 and 3 and have more space next generation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,741
United Kingdom
The funny thing about this is that Sony used to be the best option for BC on Consoles. They have a long history of doing it, and doing it well. The PS4 is literally the only time they have never offered it. They can do it, they just need to have the inclination to do it. But after this gen, it is hard to say if they do or not.

PS NOW has nothing to do with BC, and if anything, BC makes it more appealing. PS NOW is not a replacement for BC, but rather an investment for a coming streaming focused future. If it was just for BC, it wouldn't offer PS4 games, nor would it be available on PC. Also, think about it for a second: with PS3 BC, PS NOW would suddenly have a full downloadable library of nearly 800 games (probably more when PS5 releases), all of which are natively playable on your Console. That makes it one hell of a proposition. It undeniably makes the service itself more appealing.

Now, I understand that allowing BC means people can have access to their PS3 libraries for free, but does anyone really have over 600 PS3 games lying around? Probably not, and in that case, PS NOW still has plenty of value regardless of free access to the games (not to mention there are many people who never owned a Ps3, or sold off the system and their library of games after PS4 launched without BC). I don't think it hurts NOW at all. Honestly, having the entire library be downloadable would probably make me a subscriber.

It would be great if PS5 had BC for all previous PS gen's and I'm sure it wouldn't but I can see PS4 BC being the main focus, at least at the start and PSNow picking up the slack for missing PS1, 2 & 3 native BC. PSNow has a download function now, so people can play the games locally on the system, which helps a little too.

Not having BC didn't stop PS4 from selling tons, so BC is a nice bonus but not a deal breaker for many people it seems. It certainly wouldn't stop me buying a PS5, so I guess it depends how Sony will look at the situation and if they want to invest more in BC, other than for PS4 games.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,725
Ohio
It would be great if PS5 had BC for all previous PS gen's and I'm sure it wouldn't but I can see PS4 BC being the main focus, at least at the start and PSNow picking up the slack for missing PS1, 2 & 3 native BC. PSNow has a download function now, so people can play the games locally on the system, which helps a little too.

Not having BC didn't stop PS4 from selling tons, so BC is a nice bonus but not a deal breaker for many people it seems. It certainly wouldn't stop me buying a PS5, so I guess it depends how Sony will look at the situation and if they want to invest more in BC, other than for PS4 games.
You missed my point. PS NOW only has a download function for PS4 games, because they will run natively on the system. PS3 game are currently streaming only. PS5 having PS3 BC means all games on PS NOW would be downloadable and playable natively on PS5 hardware.

Considering the sheer size of NOW's library, and that many people are only turned off from NOW because of the streaming aspect, they could make NOW much more appealing with PS3 BC. It definitely represents a possible incentive for Sony to offer it, if they feel it would make NOW more appealing to more people. They could also potentially sell the games on PSN as well. So there is a lot of potential profit in BC.
 

Saoshyant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,002
Portugal
Man, anyone getting their hopes up after the gigantic mess both the PS2 on PS4 initiative and -- especially -- the PS1 Classic was, they are likely going to be very disappointed.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,074
So, if this is the reason that PS2 Classics can't be played on PS4, it means Sony either simply doesn't care or is incapable of working out emulation.
The only people that test non-licensed games are those who mod their PS4. This has nothing to do with compatibility being a problem.
 

Garyizraw

Member
Sep 14, 2018
124
Well I already knew I was getting a PS5, this just solidifies that decision. really hope I can use my disc !
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,960
Osaka, Osaka
Yeah, but when's my Memory Card (PS2) to USB adapter from my PS3 gonna work, huh Sony?!

:P

I hope this becomes something. Backwards compatibility probably helped make me the PlayStation fan I am today.
 

MadMod

Member
Dec 4, 2017
2,755
Interesting, personally I only need BC for the first couple years a console comes out. After that my integration into the next gen is full and I concentrate on that, whilst dabbling into the previous gen if i missed some amazing game etc.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,725
Ohio
The only people that test non-licensed games are those who mod their PS4. This has nothing to do with compatibility being a problem.
I mean, how can you know that tho, dude? These games that we're talking about aren't available on PS4, so there must be a reason. It is either compatibility issues, or Trophy implementation like I was saying, or maybe licensing issues, but regardless, they aren't available to purchase or play on PS4, or even on PS NOW.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,210
I usually wait a year or two before buying new consoles, but BC would make me feel comfortable buying a PS5 day 1. Basically a 'killer app' hardware feature.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,074
I mean, how can you know that tho, dude?
If that's asking how do I know noone's testing them - you answered that question yourself already - they aren't available.
If the question is about compatibility - software can only get as good as its testing-coverage, there's hundreds of homebrew emulators that show you how that evolution works.
If the question is 'how do you know Sony engineers aren't incompetent?" - I obviously don't - but the burden of proof for that would be on the person asking that question.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,741
United Kingdom
You missed my point. PS NOW only has a download function for PS4 games, because they will run natively on the system. PS3 game are currently streaming only. PS5 having PS3 BC means all games on PS NOW would be downloadable and playable natively on PS5 hardware.

Considering the sheer size of NOW's library, and that many people are only turned off from NOW because of the streaming aspect, they could make NOW much more appealing with PS3 BC. It definitely represents a possible incentive for Sony to offer it, if they feel it would make NOW more appealing to more people. They could also potentially sell the games on PSN as well. So there is a lot of potential profit in BC.

Sure but they could change PS3 games on PSNow to be downloadable in the future if they work on it.

Both BC and PSNow downloads would be the best option of course, I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,244
Man, anyone getting their hopes up after the gigantic mess both the PS2 on PS4 initiative and -- especially -- the PS1 Classic was, they are likely going to be very disappointed.

As much as I want to hope, Sony hasn't given us much reason to do that. Also the deployment of PS Now so late in the generation in new markets recently suggests they are doubling down on that tech as their BC option.
 

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,234
To me, it doesn't sound like this allows newer systems to improve upon the games and game systems being emulated like the Xbox One X can improve OG and 360 games.

"The aim is to make the applications designed for the previous consoles (legacy device) run perfectly on the most powerful hardware, and is focused on eliminating the synchronization errors between the new consoles and the behavior of the previous ones (PS4, PS3, PS2 and PSX). For example, if the CPU of the new console is faster than the previous one, data could be overwritten prematurely, even if they were still being used by another component. "
 

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,234
LOL no....there is a reason only about 10% of 360 library is actually BC with the one right now. BC especially with different architecture is complex, especially when you throw in weird tech like cell to go along with X86.. As for the patent? Companies patent stuff more inane then this all the time, only sony knows why.

It's actually 25% of the 360 library that you can run on Xbox One. But I agree with the rest. Some of the biggest issues with BC right now are licensing issues, though, which is pretty annoying.

https://kotaku.com/500-games-are-backwards-compatible-on-xbox-one-and-mor-1832103450
 

Rathorial

Member
Oct 28, 2017
578
Well if they can make their new system backwards compatible down to the PS1, that will probably excite me more than their launch games will. Bonus points if they can do what the Xbox One X does by enhancing older titles to run at modern resolutions...but if I have to pay for old games again, would only do it for enhanced versions.

Still have a launch 60gb PS3 for the wealth of old games, and I question how much longer it will last.
 
Sep 12, 2018
656
LOL no....there is a reason only about 10% of 360 library is actually BC with the one right now. BC especially with different architecture is complex, especially when you throw in weird tech like cell to go along with X86.. As for the patent? Companies patent stuff more inane then this all the time, only sony knows why.

This

The fact that PS3 and X360 are higher clocked then current gen and are a wildly different architecture makes it a technological miracle that MS got BC working at all, let alone improve the source.

Converting The last of us to PS4 was a nightmare for the devs for exactly that reason.