I honestly can't say I have ever seen "seething hate" for a developer. Neither GAF, here or any other gaming site I have been too.
Gaf had like 6 members with tags commenting on their deep hate for Nintendo
I honestly can't say I have ever seen "seething hate" for a developer. Neither GAF, here or any other gaming site I have been too.
SeeSo basically after going through this, this is basically a barely disguised don't criticize my precious precious industry thread, because any one who says anything that's not endless praise is a bad bad bad bad person attacking gamingdom, and we need to dogpile them with nebulous and non existent ideals of what okay criticism that we would allow should be, until somebody does that, and we dogpile on that with new inscrutable terms because nobodybattacks gamingdom and gets away with it.
See
This is the type of insightful commentary I look forward to when clicking on a thread
You know there's a problem with toxicity in gaming circles when in a place as chill as ResetEra you still get people offended at the suggestion that they not spew outright hate.
Yep. Definitely the collective 'angriest' of any entertainment medium I follow. No one does pitchforks and torches better than 'gamers'."Seething hate [...] is something that the gaming community needs to work on"
I think you could reduce the statement even further.
Gamers just need to fucking cool it in general. Don't get so worked up about things. Let the hate go.
He's not smug at all. He's pointing at something that's actually a very big problem in the culture around this industry. People feel entitled, and when they don't get precisely the thing their selfish desires crave, they turn into assholes who will very easily say horrible things about people who are doing their best to create something worthwhile.
It's pathetic, and OP is helping by calling it out, and starting a conversation about it. People who already have come in here to say inane things like "you won't stop me hating" are just proving his point. You are just proving his point. what are you trying to achieve? Honestly? Belittling people who want to make a change is just enabling the status quo.
If you don't like a game, fine. Go play something else. If you are upset some developer didn't make what you wanted, or changed what you like. Tough. Get over it. If you have actual concerns, feel free to bring them up, but attacking the people who make things will not help.
This is not limited to the games industry - and it's a common rhetorical technique online - being rude or toxic about subjectives can be "justified" by finding more seemingly objective lines of attack. So, "Lazy devs" morphs into "deceptive" or something more seemingly reasonable and actionable.
And sometimes there's objective stuff to be mad about like us launching a buggy game, so you have to sift through the noise to find the signal. But if you have a legitimate beef, wrapping it in toxicity is the least effective method of having your complaint heard. You don't have to "slurp" to simple describe and issue and why you're unhappy about it.
On the other end of that spectrum, you don't have to send death threats or run DDOS scripts either.
Also Twitter is (often) functionally a really bad place to engage in constructive and detailed conversations as a direct result of the product's limitations and rhetorical flow. It's more useful for alerts, announcements and drive by hot takes.
Yeah I don't disagree. Were you responding to something directly in my post or piggy backing off of it for further discussion. I don't mind either way, just wanted to understand.
could you provide some examples of the criticism you think is suppressed
it seems extremely clear to me: relentlessly and even ruthlessly criticizing a game is fine, but divining things like employee merit and work ethic out of one's asshole is dumb and should be clowned on. the latter is rarely insightful and almost always the result of posturing, in my experience.
Your response says nothing accurate about the OP but speaks volumes as to your own character
this is the guy who was so angry about AAA development that he got banned for itSee
This is the type of insightful commentary I look forward to when clicking on a thread
It's very bothersome that defending the difficulty of Souls games or the input system of fighting games as a feature of game design gets handwaved away as being "archaic" or "elitist" or "ableist" for insufficiently catering to hypothetical disabled players.This is not limited to the games industry - and it's a common rhetorical technique online - being rude or toxic about subjectives can be "justified" by finding more seemingly objective lines of attack. So, "Lazy devs" morphs into "deceptive" or something more seemingly reasonable and actionable.
Except you're ignoring how people in those Dark Souls threads are absolutely toxic and elitist. People don't like hearing the word elitist because it's actually true in a lot of cases regarding people being gatekeepers to how a game should be instead of having options for those who need them.this is the guy who was so angry about AAA development that he got banned for it
and then came back after his ban to keep going
It's very bothersome that defending the difficulty of Souls games or the input system of fighting games as a feature of game design gets handwaved away as being "archaic" or "elitist" or "ableist" for insufficiently catering to hypothetical disabled players.
As much as people like to toot their own horns about a clean start and better community, Era's threads about topics like those sound exactly like they sounded on the old forum, and these are topics that someone decides to make a thread about every couple of months. Nothing's changed.
There are valid arguments against this though. You can't just type the word "toxic" and think all points opposite to yours are dismissed.Except you're ignoring how people in those Dark Souls threads are absolutely toxic and elitist. People don't like hearing the word elitist because it's actually true in a lot of cases regarding people being gatekeepers to how a game should be instead of having options for those who need them.
Also Twitter is (often) functionally a really bad place to engage in constructive and detailed conversations as a direct result of the product's limitations and rhetorical flow. It's more useful for alerts, announcements and drive by hot takes.
Agreed! Devs are just people, mostly doing their best. We gotta redirect that hatred towards publishers xD
The amount of hate Sakamoto gets because of the mistake that was Other M is still mind blowing to this day. It makes sense why, for awhile, he decided to do other things like Tomodachi Life and the other weird and cool games. Other M was terrible, no doubt. The Metroid community has become so incredibly toxic with this, and it has extended to Tanabe as well because of Federation Force despite him saying how he wants to work on Prime 4 in interviews and Fedforce even hinting at Prime 4. Do the fans let things go? No. They burn everything in their path, demand the cancellation of games, say that Nintendo should sell off the IP. It's why I don't participate in any Metroid thread anymore and never will.
You won't stop me from hating Ready at Dawn and their terrible marketing department or Sean Murray. Doesn't mean I support any kind of harassment directed at them.
This is actually the first time I'm hearing about those Nintendo developers getting bashed by their fans. I guess there's a merit in not getting involved with such games.
As for Yoshi-P, I've only heard nothing but praise regarding him.
This is related to something I've thought about on this topic. The negativity/toxicity I believe is a multi-faceted complex issue, but I think one of the big reasons it's become so prominent is due to years of "accepted dog piling." You can see this in so many different parts of gaming communities, everything from the mentioned "dogpile on the hate of this game," which fuels the constant narrative that games are either the best or worst ever with little in-between, or dogpiling on fan bases/communities ("Sonic fans are weird and the worst", "4chan is terrible", Tumblr is...(don't want to say what is often said in certain faucets)...The amount of hate Sakamoto gets because of the mistake that was Other M is still mind blowing to this day. It makes sense why, for awhile, he decided to do other things like Tomodachi Life and the other weird and cool games. Other M was terrible, no doubt. The Metroid community has become so incredibly toxic with this, and it has extended to Tanabe as well because of Federation Force despite him saying how he wants to work on Prime 4 in interviews and Fedforce even hinting at Prime 4. Do the fans let things go? No. They burn everything in their path, demand the cancellation of games, say that Nintendo should sell off the IP. It's why I don't participate in any Metroid thread anymore and never will.
I've seen at least one developer crash a good game because they didn't take the time to understand how their actions were making their playerbase feel. I think it's a good idea - or at least a consultant.
The amount of hate Sakamoto gets because of the mistake that was Other M is still mind blowing to this day. It makes sense why, for awhile, he decided to do other things like Tomodachi Life and the other weird and cool games. Other M was terrible, no doubt. The Metroid community has become so incredibly toxic with this, and it has extended to Tanabe as well because of Federation Force despite him saying how he wants to work on Prime 4 in interviews and Fedforce even hinting at Prime 4. Do the fans let things go? No. They burn everything in their path, demand the cancellation of games, say that Nintendo should sell off the IP. It's why I don't participate in any Metroid thread anymore and never will.