That's the argument though. Lots of people are saying that social issues don't matter as long as the gameplay / story is good.
Fair enough, fair enough. Gunplay is definitely one of those things that's really up to individuals. They should just ape the gunplay from binary domain, all these years later and there's not much that's as similarly as satisfying.
Yet its major hing an should be something thats more of a concern then how it plays.
I agree with that, we can't fully assess it yet. The way the dialogue has been presented thus far hasn't really given me much hope for a nuanced perspective, but again, I'm open to seeing the final product to find out.Yeah, it is hard to parse this I agree, like this post makes a really good point:
but also I feel it's still quite hard to judge this kind of thing when we have barely seen anything from the game yet and have yet to see if it consistently shitty or if the shittiness serves an actual purpose, tone and style wise. This is like a 50 hour plus game, you have to judge it holistically.
Making a cyberpunk game with tired racial stereotypes is some next level of dumb shit.
Seems inherent to the genre?So you are happy the way they use asian language and imagery in the game? My english langauge isn't good enough to explain it but reading this it sounds again, stereotypical.
This isn't unlike the problematic issues found in the Cyberpunk genre as a whole. Ridley Scott's classic 1982 film Blade Runner is the most obvious example here since it falls into the very same trappings. Chinese and Japanese language is strewn about casually without any mention of diaspora, and the only East Asian characters – in a film filled with East Asian aesthetics and iconography – are the noodle salesman and eyeball maker. Hell, these Orientalist issues were present from the beginning of the genre with the seminal novel Neuromancer. It is set in a futuristic Chiba, Japan but does not have any Japanese characters, let alone protagonists, which shows that this problematic Orientalist view has been apparent in cyberpunk since the beginning.
Read more at https://www.gamerevolution.com/feat...ulture-as-window-dressing#OBA1hrpWQ17ZpqAg.99
When each new showing of the game has the same problems thats a red flagI agree with that, we can't fully assess it yet. The way the dialogue has been presented thus far hasn't really given me much hope for a nuanced perspective, but again, I'm open to seeing the final product to find out.
But how you show these awful things matters. Is it nuanced, is it stereotypical, is it biased, is it neutral,... If it's biased, how is it biased? Critical? Favourable? You can tell a story about racism that paints a highly critical picture of it or you can tell a story about racism that makes light of it or glamourises it (and everything in between).Cyberpunk is supposed to be dystopian, it is supposed to be full of awful things. Did y'all get mad at the movie Dredd because it had a black man as a drug dealer that didn't speak the queens English? y'all upset 24/7 smmfh
`I'm also increasingly concerned about Cyberpunk's handling of non-white cultures. Last year's Gamescom demo drew criticism for its clumsy and inauthentic presentation of a Latino character, and I'm not convinced the Voodoo Boys are a step in the right direction. At one point V, the player character, mockingly says "and who are dem" in response to Placide's pronunciation. I asked Tomaskiewicz if he was concerned they weren't treating certain cultures with enough respect.`
`Then – because again, we're very strong – we rip the turret off its base and turn it on the Animals. At this point, I feel increasingly uncomfortable that we're shooting at predominantly black people labelled as animals.`
`The population is now largely black, and the major language is largely Haitian Creole. We're here to meet a man called Placide, of the Voodoo Boys gang, for a mission. We search for him in a nearby church, and an NPC, named as "Poor Man", comes up to us. There is some questionable dialogue - or rather, questionable subtitling - where the man's thick Creole accent is also written out in the subtitles, "they" as "dey" and "the" as "da" or "de". This is the same for nearly all of the Voodoo Boys and people of this area, and actully after you unlock a chip in-game that translates launguage for you, your software presents it as such - "la" in a foreign language still "da" in English. Later on, Placide mentions "they are coming", or something of that ilk, and our white male character asks "who is "dey"?".`
And that's bad.
My god Voodoo Boys really?What the FUCK is all this racial insensitivity in their writing???
From Eurogamer:
Cyberpunk should be about the interaction of corporative, hypercapitalist superpowers playing gods while countercultures appear and the often semi-criminal protagonist moves between worlds.Correct me If I am wrong.
Shouldn't dystopian cyberpunk be full of racism,slurs and offensive stuff? This is downfall of social relationships, not sure why it should be pretty.
This.I think CDPR, given their track record, ought to release a set short stories that give context to the representation, idolization, cultural appropriation and fetishization within the game world.
As things are in vacuum and given their aforementioned track record it is not a good look given how certain aspects of representation in Cyberpunk 2020, which were once largely palatable within the non-diagetic culture where bigotry was an innate part of every day life for the majority, have rightfully been recognized as anathemas in retrospect. If the game is running with non-diagetic culture that shaped C2020 and re-imagining it onto 2077 whilst stripping it of the real world cultural progress made since the 80s, then they ought to clarify that.
Correct me If I am wrong.
Shouldn't dystopian cyberpunk be full of racism,slurs and offensive stuff? This is downfall of social relationships, not sure why it should be pretty.
Cyberpunk is supposed to be dystopian, it is supposed to be full of awful things. Did y'all get mad at the movie Dredd because it had a black man as a drug dealer that didn't speak the queens English? y'all upset 24/7 smmfh
Or Maybe, simplier, in a multicultural society where only Money, Power and Fire Power really counts, people can mock each other the way they want, 'cause real surviving problems are fuckingly others than feeling bad for the way someone think about or depict you. Sorry but in 2019 this kind of debate, in a Cyberpunk setting, is awkard as trying to write something on the phone and getting the T9 continuosly judging what you should really write. And getting wrong 99% time.
Yes, but the tabletop game description is this:I think it was posted earlier that they were part of the OG table top game.
Despite the biosculpting, tattoos, feather implants, and bones through their noses and ears, most members of the gang started as average white boys
Because of course that's the default name any Haitian demographic would choose, simply because they're Hatian...
"Weird magic rituals".....
Oh yeah, I tried to fairly criticise CDPR games here, not easy.Yep. And at the time, when I pointed out how awful the dialogue was, I got ripped a new one from some people on Era because the defense force for this game was almost as "hardcore" as the game wants to be. lol
Every RPG shooter should take notes of Destiny's polished gunplay. Notably the enemy stagger that really help not making it feel like bullet sponges.
Cyberpunk should be about the interaction of corporative, hypercapitalist superpowers playing gods while countercultures appear and the often semi-criminal protagonist moves between worlds.
It should be about weird stuff, a bunch of college kids dressing in optic camouflage summer dresses that spout neo-Marxist dribble one week then dye themselves gray and speaking somberly the next.
Cyberpunk doesn't even need to feel too dystopian, most of Neuromancer for example isn't dystopian even if it's very dark at times. So racism, slurs and offensive stuff absolutely isn't necessary. And not from this company.
I don't think Outer Worlds has an open world. isn't it hub based?Prediction: Outer Worlds will have a better open world, better gameplay, better writing and less racist stereotypes than this mess.
I don't think Outer Worlds has an open world. isn't it hub based?
Yeah. They compared it to KOTOR.I don't think Outer Worlds has an open world. isn't it hub based?
This is one of the primary issues I had with MMORPG games in the past...it's an extreme turn off for me...Yes, agreed! I wish Borderlands 3 had this too, because I don't like the lack of any real reaction from baddies when they are shot.
Seems like the games writers only glanced over the tabletop game. "Voody Boys - must be all brown people"
Oh there's major red flags all over the place for me. The fact that they aren't really addressing it in interviews and such too. But time will tell I guess.When each new showing of the game has the same problems thats a red flag
I am comparing the game with the tabletop rpg where in the latter the gang is mainly made out of "average white boys". Yet in the game they are all colored people.Is it far-fetched to imagine an ethnically-centered gang in a dystopia though? Exemples of "exclusives" gangs exists in the real world too, and they are not always known for their subtelty. As long as there are other reprensetations of the same ethnical group in the game than that, I don't see it as something that is, on it's own, an apology of racism. If the game however stands with an approach that this is the only way this ethnic group can possibly be presented, then it's an issue.
I don't think I am qualified to make social comments on all that, I am just wondering myself how I would approach it if I had to adapt a universe like Cyberpunk.
I am comparing the game with the tabletop rpg where in the latter the gang is mainly made out of "average white boys". Yet in the game they are all colored people.