Can people please stop antagonizing Klee? It's pretty damn gross already.
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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Good find, it's VR related from what i can see.
"Patent History
Publication number: 20200005431
Type: Application
Filed: Sep 13, 2019
Publication Date: Jan 2, 2020
Inventor: Mark Evan Cerny (Burbank, CA)
Application Number: 16/570,258"
anexanhume you saw this one?
Agreed. I'm about to start reporting comments like these as they are childish and petty.
Again, it comes back to the idea that Sony had no idea what Microsoft would be aiming for or what the road map would look like for a 2020 device. I don't buy it.
Even if we believe the rumours that they delayed, that would have still left time to sit down with AMD and grab something new. Regardless, I think Matt's statement around the Github leaks says enough to assume it's pretty unlikely.
I'm just ignoring these sorts of posts now. It's always from the same group of users and is tiresome a best.
That only makes sense if they were aiming for 2019, which doesn't really make sense from a business perspective since (A) PS4 sales have still been very strong, and (B) would indicate that they thought they needed to pre-empty MS, which again makes no sense at all. I mean you are basing it on the contextless Github leaks plus the unsubstantiated rumour that Sony was aiming for 2019 release. I mean if they both turn out to be true, it shows a collosal business fuck up by Sony. Neither 2019 makes sense, nor simply uping the clocks to 2ghz, unless they have an innovative cooling system. If the latter they may have aimed for 2ghz, and they may have budgeted for a lower retail price than XSX. However, if they did change direction in 2017 as Klee indicated, that would give them time re-design the system. It would also line up with the idea that they may be using the initial design up clocked to simulate the final hardware, but final dev was even later than XSX (which already seemed pretty late).
Sony is not gonna clarify any news before the reveal, because going into it with the current narrative works out for them.
If it's indeed 9TF, expectations met, anything above 10TF, expectations surpassed. Same with the RAM and the SSD.
They're not going to do anything to change that perception before next month because it's a win-win scenario.
If people were expecting a 12TF PS5 on the other hand, they would be disappointed with 11TF, which is crazy (Incidently, that could happen with the Series X and the RDNA/GCN debate)
As I believe what most insiders have said regarding both console's being close in power, an that both will end up between 10TF-11TF, that could very well be how everything plays out
If it's indeed 9TF, expectations met, anything above 10TF, expectations surpassed. Same with the RAM and the SSD.
They're not going to do anything to change that perception before next month because it's a win-win scenario.
If people were expecting a 12TF PS5 on the other hand, they would be disappointed with 11TF, which is crazy (Incidently, that could happen with the Series X and the RDNA/GCN debate)
As I believe what most insiders have said regarding both console's being close in power, an that both will end up between 10TF-11TF, that could very well be how everything plays out
Wait, holy shit this is a huge find. Doesn't this support that Sony could be going with their own solution instead of AMD's? I could have sworn we talked about this before.
Sounds VRS related but i cannot seem to access the images of the patent, does anyone have a PDF?.
User Banned (1 day): Antagonizing Another User and Thread Derailment; Prior Warning for Hostility
Klee loves the attention.
He's even thinking about starting a youtube channel.
I really don't want to open this argument all over again but my strong impression,considering the info we have right now, is this:
if we conveniently choose to ignore all the raw 36CU testing data we got during entire 2019 from apisak,komachi,that github leak etc. etc. the only other alternative is some new,hidden PS5 APU (with more then 40/36CU) waiting in the shadows to be announced at PS Meeting. I think that's an illusion.It is what it is.
If they wanted to sell PlayStation 5 at 399$/€ at launch, with only a very small loss on each unit (<20$), what was the best option?
Remember that PlayStation 4 sales during 2018 were above Sony expectations.
VR related mostly but I guess it can also apply to games with 90degree or larger fields-of-view.
It's how you sub-section the image for rendering tiles and by doing it in a non-uniform way (edges using smaller tiles?) is the most effective way. Reads like fixed-foveated rendering but that must have been patented years ago I dunno (just skimmed).
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Cell failed to compete Xenon in almost any spec other than FP. And honestly sky high FP number isn't that necessary for CPU and that's why CELL never successed.
But if 40/36 CU design was locked already what can they do?!? The only option is to raise the clocks.That's the point.
Yeah, that definitely sounds like him loving the attention and trying to make a YouTube channel off of it when it was his wife who suggested it in the first place. 🙄 Reported.
You still didnt answer the question, why delayed to 2020 when there is already a gpu that performs beter then 8 tf from amd on the market.
I think you are taking this information from GitHub as almost the end all/be all for the PS5 when none of us even know the full story. We know the numbers are real, but your conclusion flies on the face of everything we've heard up until this point. If I had to a gun to my head right now, I would be on the PS5 being stronger than 9.2TF.
Upping the clocks would require a more expensive cooling solution and results in worse yields, which defeats the purpose of launching a more affordable $399.999 price.
I mean we can't say that Sony upped the clocks to 2Ghz to be more competitive with the XSX and at the same time say they want to launch at $399.99. You can't have both.
I mean we can't say that Sony upped the clocks to 2Ghz to be more competitive with the XSX and at the same time say they want to launch at $399.99. You can't have both.
How can i possibly know that? It might be business decision or some technical issue.We are all speculating here. Maybe Zen2/Navi 10 design wasn't fully ready for mass production.Maybe Sony wasn't able to sell PS5 in 2019 at the price they wanted and it is possible to do that in late 2020? Maybe their BC solution wasn't fully ready? Maybe their next gen games weren't ready? Who knows.
Why would it be locked though?. They would have known from the Navi testing what the perf and thermals where likely to be.
Matt already said to move past from the GitHub info and people still cling to the 36CU narrative.
And that is the reason im not buying that, if the APU cant be change since 2018, there is no reason to delay a launch console.
Thanks :), Im checking for patents from time to time, if I find anything else, will let you know.
Again. This requires buying into the idea that Sony didn't have time to change things, which seems unlikely given the delay would have given them another 12 months.
Are you also ignoring Matt's statement on the Github leaks?
I feel like a lot of you are ignoring the financial implications. Not sure why.
Again, why assume they were targeting 9.2TF?
Yes, it's a theory. It doesn't mean it's true, but saying that it's impossible is basically ignoring every console launch ever.
Increasing your clocks by 11% isn't 100$ more expensive and isn't that far fetched. Xbox One increased CPU clocks by 9.3% and GPU clocks by 6.6% just before launch, do you think they've spent extra 100$ in order to do that?
That's not really true. Sony had designed the PS5 around their budget and vision, not according to what 700$ GPUs are available in 2020. Case and point, the PS4. It had a 1.84TF GPU while Sony knew AMD will have a 5.6TF GPU in the market before PS4 will launch. If you compare it to a 9.2TF GPU in 2020, it's the same as if AMD will have a 550$ 27TF GPU in 2020, which it won't.
I don't know if PS5 will be 9.2TF or not, but saying it's not possible or doesn't make any sense isn't based on logic, it's based on what you wish the PS5 will be. I'm a PS5 day-one consumer, I'll preorder it the second I can, but I don't deny the fact that Ariel and Oberon A0 and B0 are 36 CU @2Ghz which means PS5 could be 9.2TF. This console BTW, it too powerful for 399$ IMO so if Sony did build this machine and sold it for 399$, it will shake the whole industry. We Era members like to talk TF so much that we get blinded by them and forget how the real world works.
Its baffling. People took the GitHub information and ran wild with it as of it was the smoking gun. Then when Matt came in and said he was glad people moved past the info being confirmation for anything, people still wanted to believe PS5 is 9.2TF.
Regarding "Navi was ready in 2019", no it wasn't. Even after your chip is ready design-wise, there is a lot of work to be done in order to get it in mass production shape. You can't finalize huge things like CU count just a few months from release. PS5 is going into mass manufacturing in probably 3-4 months, their GPU design was locked months ago if not over a year ago.
True, but you would have an idea of the thermals for Navi from the testing that they would have done. This could be used far before Navi is actually out to help to influence the PS5 design.
Well, you said that chip is probably lock since 2018, so why whouldnt it be ready for mass production in 2019? Or, at worst case scenario, why not launch in the spring of 2020?
Anything close to 10Tf and i will be very happy. When these threads first started, and we got to vote for where we thought the Teraflop number would end up, i voted for 10tf and this was not even taking RDNA improvements into consideration.
So what I'm trying to say is that even at 9tf rdna the PS5 will have exceeded my initial estimations for next gen.
So what I'm trying to say is that even at 9tf rdna the PS5 will have exceeded my initial estimations for next gen.
The Github leak definitely isn't confirmation of anything. Neither is the "my developer friend has seen a spec sheet" comments however, which you seem to be relying on.
I'm personally in the 'needs more context' camp, but it honestly can't be denied that the Github leak is a lot more tangible than anything else offered so far - whether it's actually true or not.
Edit: and it's not like a 9.2TF PS5 isn't still an excellent proposition either!
You really can't compare things that way for this gen.
The GPU that came out last year don't have RT but Sony will .
This time Sony and MS are on the cutting edge of AMD tech .
Using PC prices also don't mean anything unless you think PS5 GPU going cost $349 which is current price for a RX 5700.
Yes Sony designed the PS5 around a certain budget and price but unless you know what they paying for parts or there budget saying it had to be a 36CU GPU don't make sense.
Yet, the last entry for the GitHub information was literally months ago. PS4 didn't go into mass production until a few months before release. Something is not adding up. You want to believe 9.2? That's your prerogative. There's way too much we don't know to be that certain to be honest.
Here is last years Sony CES conference. Just in case you want to manage your own expectations - 40 minutes of content/platforms/opportunities without really saying anything concrete.
i think the individual product information is normally handled separately - eg TV lineup etc
i think the individual product information is normally handled separately - eg TV lineup etc
In any case that works out perfectly for Sony going into the reveal, so they won't do anything to change that narrative now.
Using somewhat confirmed legitimate information (even if potentially out of date) is more baffling than Pulling HBM and Dual GPUs from hopes and dreams? Which is what the majority of the last 2 threads have been.
PS5 won't be going into mass manufacturing in April if it coming out in NOV.
Final devs kit not out and they not going to be storing millions of PS5 for 5 plus months
A few of my opinions. Sony going with 36CUs make sense if the rumoured 2019 launch was true and they needed 36CUs for back compatibility. The delay to 2020 and finding Microsoft went with more CUs, forcing Sony to clock high to 2GHZ I can see that too. Sony don't place too much emphasis on thermals and noise as my launch ps4 and PS4 pro are very loud. It wouldn't be the first time Sony got caught with there pants down. Rumours were the PS3 was originally not gonna have a GPU at all and was delayed to cram in an off the shelf Nvidia GPU at the last minute.
Also people here are talking as if it's fact that series x is 12TF rdna when this hasn't been confirmed at all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if series X is 40-44 CUs and comes in at around the 10TF range. I just can't see from a cost point of view it being more powerful. Plus if they were hitting 12TF rdna they would be screaming it from the rooftops and the 2x Xbox one x doesn't add up. For example my old 780ti had 5.3TF compared to my 2070 supers 9.1 TF but I get more than double the performance from the 2070 super.
Plus alot of these Rumours are coming from older devkits which surly couldn't have final rdna gpus in. Most likely they were higher tf gcn gpus as a target spec which would explain the confusion.
Anyway 9-10 tf rdna, 8 core 16 thread ryzen 2 and nvme ssds are gonna be such an upgrade I can't believe people are talking as if this is terrible. I'm gaming on a pretty comparable PC right now and it's transformative the Fidelity and smoothness this brings to even current games. Every game I've played from a 10 year old Lego game to shadow of the tomb raider, gears 5, control, yooka laylee,crash, Forza 4 have been such an upgrade over the the console versions it's almost an emotional experience. I paid £1200 for this PC in July 2019 and if they can bring this performance for a third of the price and a third of the size in 18 months that's awesome. If you've never gamed on a powerful PC your gonna be blown away.
Also people here are talking as if it's fact that series x is 12TF rdna when this hasn't been confirmed at all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if series X is 40-44 CUs and comes in at around the 10TF range. I just can't see from a cost point of view it being more powerful. Plus if they were hitting 12TF rdna they would be screaming it from the rooftops and the 2x Xbox one x doesn't add up. For example my old 780ti had 5.3TF compared to my 2070 supers 9.1 TF but I get more than double the performance from the 2070 super.
Plus alot of these Rumours are coming from older devkits which surly couldn't have final rdna gpus in. Most likely they were higher tf gcn gpus as a target spec which would explain the confusion.
Anyway 9-10 tf rdna, 8 core 16 thread ryzen 2 and nvme ssds are gonna be such an upgrade I can't believe people are talking as if this is terrible. I'm gaming on a pretty comparable PC right now and it's transformative the Fidelity and smoothness this brings to even current games. Every game I've played from a 10 year old Lego game to shadow of the tomb raider, gears 5, control, yooka laylee,crash, Forza 4 have been such an upgrade over the the console versions it's almost an emotional experience. I paid £1200 for this PC in July 2019 and if they can bring this performance for a third of the price and a third of the size in 18 months that's awesome. If you've never gamed on a powerful PC your gonna be blown away.
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