IKR? The reality has been right before us since The Game Awards 2019. Just look at what kinds of visuals they are targeting with Senua's Saga: Hellblade II, what that game is supposedly going to look like. It looks insane. Compare it to Halo Infinite and you can see what a next-gen exclusive looks like next to cross-gen.100% true.
Series S/X only first party games will visually wipe the floor with Xbox cross gen games that are still hamstrung by XB1/XB1X. Halo included.
I'm at a loss… how people can claim such things about long-established generations of gaming. This is not the first topic where people only now have a problem with the status quo because it happens to be what the corporation has decided upon, rather than them trying to make a case for it years ago. It only "makes sense" because it's their current business strategy, not because they are correct. So either the developers been wrong and lying to us for decades, or what the exec is peddling is nonsense.The nonsense from devs talking about how excited they are to do things they couldn't do before? Every gen? From literally everyone every single generation except this one suddenly? This topic has never had a debate before. Everyone accepted new machines could do things old ones couldn't especially in the early generations where that was very obviously easily understood to be true. You couldn't make PS2 games on PS1. No one said PS1 doesn't hold PS2 games back, because that's fucking stupid.
IKR? The reality has been right before us since The Game Awards 2019. Just look at what kinds of visuals they are targeting with Senua's Saga: Hellblade II, what that game is supposedly going to look like. It looks insane. Compare it to Halo Infinite and you can see what a next-gen exclusive looks like next to cross-gen.
I'm at a loss… how people can claim such things about long-established generations of gaming. This is not the first topic where people only now have a problem with the status quo because it happens to be what the corporation has decided upon, rather than them trying to make a case for it years ago. It only "makes sense" because it's their current business strategy, not because they are correct. So either the developers been wrong and lying to us for decades, or what the exec is peddling is nonsense.
Phil saying the complete opposite to a few years ago because of their different business strategy. Go figure.
- Cevat Yerli about Ryse: Son of Rome not being possible on the 360.
- Ted Price about Sunset Overdrive not being possible on the 360.
- Wojciech Piejko about The Medium not being possible on the XB1.
This has to be the first gen where one of the big 3 is trying their absolute damnedest to convince me that upgrading to their new console is totally unnecessary
Microsoft saying there's going to be cross generation games for one year is an incentive to not purchase their new console at all?
Kinda misses the point. The desire to set a new baseline for experiences at a target fidelity and performance level does not make his point less accurate.Also is the fact MS feel the need to create Lockhart (while seemingly already stopping production of Xbox One S and Xbox One X) not disproving his point? Why do they need Lockheart when they have Xbox One S/X? Surely that's their low and mid tier platforms? It's maybe because they need the new CPU architecture and the SSD for games that simply wouldn't work without advanced hardware. It's almost like it's a new generation...
Also is the fact MS feel the need to create Lockhart (while seemingly already stopping production of Xbox One S and Xbox One X) not disproving his point? Why do they need Lockheart when they have Xbox One S/X? Surely that's their low and mid tier platforms? It's maybe because they need the new CPU architecture and the SSD for games that simply wouldn't work without advanced hardware. It's almost like it's a new generation...
Son of Rome and Sunset Overdrive are visually not possible on 360. There's no reason those visuals couldnt be paired back enough to deliver similar gameplay experiences on 360.
There's no reason technical reason we couldnt get a 360 game that played like 2013s Ryse, but looked like this
"The medium" has gameplay and story telling mechanics that are reliant on next gen IO solutions. Not being able to scale it back isn't a matter of fidelity. This is completely unrelated to Phil's comment.
People are conflating completely unrelated points.
First of all, he didn't say he wasn't going purchase the new console at all. Booty said up to 2 years they will have cross gen support. So he can get one after two years. Stop putting words in people mouth.
Its actualy pretty easy for me: I get a PS5 and not an Xbox. I dont like Microsofts aproach for next-gen so far.
This has to be the first gen where one of the big 3 is trying their absolute damnedest to convince me that upgrading to their new console is totally unnecessary
Congrats!
I don't think they care if you buy the new console. Little money is made on the console which is why Microsoft is making it easy to purchase their games on multiple platforms including PC. It boggles my mind that people can't comprehend that this has always been the way with PC gaming and that if developers want to make a game exclusive to the Series X they can.
Also is the fact MS feel the need to create Lockhart (while seemingly already stopping production of Xbox One S and Xbox One X) not disproving his point? Why do they need Lockheart when they have Xbox One S/X? Surely that's their low and mid tier platforms? It's maybe because they need the new CPU architecture and the SSD for games that simply wouldn't work without advanced hardware. It's almost like it's a new generation...
I guess I don't understand the point of buying a new console if it doesn't have amazing games that you can't play on previous systems.
Are we talking about game design or scope and graphics? Pick an argument. From a game design perspective it's pretty much functionally the same in both games.And once again you are comparing apples and oranges and the scope of the different games are huge. Just try to run star Citizen yourself or look at DF breakdown it's simply not playable without a ssd regardless if everything else is high end.
That period of being able to play games on previous generations is short lived though. And I hate using the term, but early adopters tend to be hardcore gamers, where rationality like that is left at the door. You may not understand the point, and that's perfectly fine, but for a lot of people - merely being able to play the game isn't enough. They want to play a respective game at its best. That's why you have people upgrading computers every few years, even though their old rigs can still play any and all games - albeit with sacrificed performance. That's why you have people purchase a mid generation refresh, when the only selling point is "play the games you can play with your existing console, except they'll look and run better!"
IKR? The reality has been right before us since The Game Awards 2019. Just look at what kinds of visuals they are targeting with Senua's Saga: Hellblade II, what that game is supposedly going to look like. It looks insane. Compare it to Halo Infinite and you can see what a next-gen exclusive looks like next to cross-gen.
I'm at a loss… how people can claim such things about long-established generations of gaming. This is not the first topic where people only now have a problem with the status quo because it happens to be what the corporation has decided upon, rather than them trying to make a case for it years ago. It only "makes sense" because it's their current business strategy, not because they are correct. So either the developers been wrong and lying to us for decades, or what the exec is peddling is nonsense.
Phil saying the complete opposite to a few years ago because of their different business strategy. Go figure.
- Cevat Yerli about Ryse: Son of Rome not being possible on the 360.
- Ted Price about Sunset Overdrive not being possible on the 360.
- Wojciech Piejko about The Medium not being possible on the XB1.
I guess I don't understand the point of buying a new console if it doesn't have amazing games that you can't play on previous systems.
I look at it like this: I just got an X1X last year. I bought a PS4 Pro/PSVR in 2016. I'll eventually get whatever Xbox because I enjoy the variety of the various console ecosystems, but MS has made it very easy to skip launch at this point. Maybe they'll show something that will make me change my mind, but I doubt it. That said I have an active GamePass sub and use it regularly, so it's not like I'm really skipping anything to their services line of revenue. It's different, but there is great value there.To that point, PS5 is a lot more appealing to me, both in content and capability, than Series X is at this point. That may change after the 23rd, who knows, but I have my doubts based on what has been stated so far. As someone who chose Xbox 360 and Xbox One over the last two PlayStation consoles, that is saying a lot, believe me. Nintendo and Sony are delivering on their promise of investing in a new platform cycle, but it is looking like Microsoft just isn't interested in that anymore.
Nms is 100% faking it - it is not at all the same thing.
Are we talking about game design or scope and graphics? Pick an argument. From a game design perspective it's pretty much functionally the same in both games.
Matt said everything in the PS5 conference was realtime. its on the first page of one of the game threads.Please wait for Horizon Forbidden West real gameplay footage before any assumptions.
i think its not just looking better. We got a sneak peak at what DICE is trying to do with BF6 and just why they straight up came out abd told the investors that the next BF will HAVE to be next gen only.
I totally understand and respect your point, I think I am just old-school. To me, a new console generation means new, amazing games to look forward to that weren't possible in the previous generation. The promise of these new compelling games that showcase my new system is what justifies the investment of several hundred dollars of hardware and accessories. That transaction to me is a two-way contract between me investing in a new console, with promise that the platform holder is going to spend the next six years or so delivering amazing new games that justify my investment in their new platform. If that isn't happening, I do not see the point in home consoles anymore.
To that point, PS5 is a lot more appealing to me, both in content and capability, than Series X is at this point. That may change after the 23rd, who knows, but I have my doubts based on what has been stated so far. As someone who chose Xbox 360 and Xbox One over the last two PlayStation consoles, that is saying a lot, believe me. Nintendo and Sony are delivering on their promise of investing in a new platform cycle, but it is looking like Microsoft just isn't interested in that anymore.
I think PC fails this point because every setup is different, including software packages, driver updates, etc., and that doesn't even get to the hardware. Consoles are almost entirely homogenized, and the operating system forces you to update regularly.While this is true there's also the fact that not every game runs on every pc
I guess I don't understand the point of buying a new console if it doesn't have amazing games that you can't play on previous systems.
An example of this is Forza Horizon 2, totally uncompromised on XO, butchered in terms of game design and features on 360.
I look at it like this: I just got an X1X last year. I bought a PS4 Pro/PSVR in 2016. I'll eventually get whatever Xbox because I enjoy the variety of the various console ecosystems, but MS has made it very easy to skip launch at this point. Maybe they'll show something that will make me change my mind, but I doubt it. That said I have an active GamePass sub and use it regularly, so it's not like I'm really skipping anything to their services line of revenue. It's different, but there is great value there.
PS5 on the other hand I will probably buy day one along with games and accessories because that's their model. Hopefully I won't have to upgrade for a few years and during that time I'll probably grab whatever the latest/best buy version of the Switch and/or Xbox Series whatever at some point.
Bottom line, though, is that they will all eventually get my money because at this point they're all doing relatively smart things. Much better than the WiiU/Xbox One era for sure.
With Sony they are cutting off first party PS4 support when they really don't need to. Most of the games they showed during their event are either coming to PC or look like they could be graphically paired down to run on PS4. Looking at GT7 there is no reaosn that could not also be on PS4.
And using Nintendo as an example is just hilarious. BOTW was cross gen and so many of their biggest games have been straight ports from the last gen.
Just because they are forcing you to upgrade to their new system to play the latest games doesn't make it a good practice when it is not 100% required. And yes, I acknowledge there are certain games where it is just too much work to scale down.
My point is that a lot of those PS5 games have been in development for multiple years, making use of the specs of the new machine. Some of the PS5 specs are things that were not possible on PS4 at the time, and therefore many of these games are developed with some of the unique characteristics in mind. It is not always a matter of just "porting it down". PS5 is a generational leap, and it is going to have games coming out in short order that were developed to make use of the new features of the hardware. My point is that this reality puts Xbox at a disadvantage, because that is very clearly not what Microsoft is doing this generation, at least for now. And many people pick their console(s) of choice based on the first party catalogue, or the promise of the 1st party games to come, not based on 3rd party, which will be mostly identical on either one.
And no one is "forcing anyone to upgrade". Buying any new console is a choice, the question is who is making the best pitch for your money, and right now I'd definitely pick PS5 without a second thought.
Agreed on all points. I don't dislike Xbox as a platform (clearly), I just am not sure how their approach makes people want to go out and buy their new system. It seems like more of a high-end upgrade than a brand new console. In three or four years, I have no doubt that Series X will have lots of exclusives that are not compatible on XB1 systems, but for now Team Xbox seems quite clearly focused on not having anyone not able to buy the latest Xbox games no matter what console they own. Time will tell if that is a recipe for success in the home console business.
I had enough hearing this dude over all the internet. he just defending what where the money is. its all about the bussines at the end he want hes games on all platforms. but that will not push games forward i know the sad truth that many people will support this like the mobile games etc etc. but that will limit the developers to make great things. Did the medium developers put him in the cage for 2 months ago ? and the game will only release on serie x ? i dont understand how real gamers agree with this dude espically if you love video games you want it to be better not stuck on old machines.
This is a reductionist attitude. I get what you mean here but shrugging off higher frame rate as not a benefit is a very bad take. You're going to need next gen consoles to maybe hit 60fps in Cyberpunk and that says alot.Talking about Cyberpunk, think about the city, for example how crowded it is. And tell me what kind of advantage would a 3800X PC will have over the Jaguar.
It will be the same. There will be no benefit from having a 10 times more powerful CPU.
Have you heard of a game called Red Faction Guerrilla? How many current gen games come close to its level of destruction and physics? People need to realize that things like these are more about game design that not every developer is aiming for and not necessarily for the lack of hardware resources.And on GPU, you can basically push a 2080ti to its limits using any game, just by increasing resolution and framerate.
But that's not what the "new gen" concept is about.
It's about doing things that the HD7870 is not able to do, even at a much lower resolution.
It's about the EPIC demo. Or even further. It's about collisions, more precise physics, destructive environments, particles that the older gpu won't be able to show, etc.
Comments like these are hilarious because Series X already has next-gen exclusives announced for it and Xbox is about to have their big next-gen showcase where we'll undoubtedly see even more next-gen exclusives. MS's first party catalogue isn't going to be an issue.My point is that a lot of those PS5 games have been in development for multiple years, making use of the specs of the new machine. Some of the PS5 specs are things that were not possible on PS4 at the time, and therefore many of these games are developed with some of the unique characteristics in mind. It is not always a matter of just "porting it down". PS5 is a generational leap, and it is going to have games coming out in short order that were developed to make use of the new features of the hardware. My point is that this reality puts Xbox at a disadvantage, because that is very clearly not what Microsoft is doing this generation, at least for now. And many people pick their console(s) of choice based on the first party catalogue, or the promise of the 1st party games to come, not based on 3rd party, which will be mostly identical on either one.
And no one is "forcing anyone to upgrade". Buying any new console is a choice, the question is who is making the best pitch for your money, and right now I'd definitely pick PS5 without a second thought.
Comments like these are hilarious because Series X already has next-gen exclusives announced for it and Xbox is about to have their big next-gen showcase where we'll undoubtedly see even more next-gen exclusives. MS's first party catalogue isn't going to be an issue.
What makes you say this though? No first party games from xbox will be next gen exclusive.
What? We already know Hell Blade 2 is next gen exclusive. There will obviously be more to follow... probably even some that beat HB2 to market.
Huh? There will be plenty of first party next-gen exclusives for Series X. The comment I was responding to was talking about "the promise of first party games to come".What makes you say this though? No first party games from xbox will be next gen exclusive.
Of course there will be.What makes you say this though? No first party games from xbox will be next gen exclusive.
Huh? There will be plenty of first party next-gen exclusives for Series X. The comment I was responding to was talking about "the promise of first party games to come".
There's also already 3rd party Series X exclusives announced for launch window. The average consumer isn't going to care that it's not first party.
If they don't want to work on a cross gen have they don't have to. There will be Series X only games even at the Series X launch. Microsoft isn't forcing devs to only make cross gen games, every console gen has had cross gen games. Halo is basically like the Last of Us 2 or Ghosts of Tsushima. It's a end of gen game, but it lined up with the Series X launch so why not launch it on both. It's worked for two generations of Zelda. There is so much concern trolling over this I don't get it.I can imagine the vast majority of developers working on cross-gen Xbox titles are not best pleased having to still consider XB1 versions of games 8 years after that console released, for at least another year. Of course they won't say this publicly.
As someone who works in the creative industry, itching to work on the latest tech and being unshackled from the constraints of old technology is a common thing, game developers are no different, especially if the tools this gen are ready and waiting for them, better than ever to make their games.
If they don't want to work on a cross gen have they don't have to. There will be Series X only games even at the Series X launch. Microsoft isn't forcing devs to only make cross gen games, every console gen has had cross gen games. Halo is basically like the Last of Us 2 or Ghosts of Tsushima. It's a end of gen game, but it lined up with the Series X launch so why not launch it on both. It's worked for two generations of Zelda. There is so much concern trolling over this I don't get it.
It was more in context of people investing in XB1 at holiday 2019 - basically saying "next gen is coming but you won't be stuck for new games for 2 years if you buy XB1 now".Up to one year.
Matt Booty said "Over the next one, two years" in November 2019, and the statement was talking about games before Series X launch getting next gen upgrades just as much as it was talking about games after Series X launch getting Xbox One versions.
What qualifies as a next-gen game? Is it arbitrarily not making a current gen version, because there is nothing about Godfall that couldn't have been replecated on PS4. I think you know a next-gen game when you see it. So far only Hellblade 2 and the Unreal 5 demo immediately looked next-gen.What makes you say this though? No first party games from xbox will be next gen exclusive.
What qualifies as a next-gen game? Is it arbitrarily not making a current gen version, because there is nothing about Godfall that couldn't have been replecated on PS4. I think you know a next-gen game when you see it. So far only Hellblade 2 and the Unreal 5 demo immediately looked next-gen.
Everyone knows this? What is your point?
We're discussing why there aren't first party next gen exclusives at launch for xbox.