Phil Spencer: "the diversity of hardware choice in PC has not held back the highest fidelity PC games on the market"

Deleted member 30681 · Jul 23, 2020

I do find it baffling that people were expecting a next gen game in Halo Infinite. Like, not to come off as defending the game, because frankly I don't think it looks very good either, but a game that's been in development for the better part of 5 years, originally starting development and targeting Xbox One/Xbox One X is not going to look like a next gen game just because it's coming to Series X as well.

I'm more surprised by the fact that there are actually quite the number of first party Series X only titles. the only caveat is, they are all seemingly years away. I think only Forza is 2021.

Soul Skater · Jul 23, 2020

It doesn't even make sense. Why are they so committed to not just jumping into next gen. After how this one went you would figure they would be dying for a clean break

ClamBuster · Jul 23, 2020

apart from the odd visual bell and whistle, the X1X is perfectly comfortable with 90% of what we saw today...

tutomos · Jul 23, 2020

Talk is cheap, seeing is believing.

Jmdajr · Jul 23, 2020

Phil it's ok....I forgive you. I will be trying out Carrion tonight... and forgetting this demo.

orochi91 · Jul 23, 2020

AegonSnake said:
Lol at the bump. you guys are itching to get banned arent you?

Why would they get banned?

AegonSnake · Jul 23, 2020

orochi91 said:
Why would they get banned?

bumping older topics to console war, troll and gloat. stuff thats usually frowned upon here.

Opus Angelorum · Jul 23, 2020

I feel they were damned if they do, damned if they don't with this. There would have been huge uproar if Infinite hadn't been 4k / 60fps.

Papacheeks · Jul 23, 2020

Soul Skater said:
It doesn't even make sense. Why are they so committed to not just jumping into next gen. After how this one went you would figure they would be dying for a clean break

Because their new direction dictates it so. They care more about the services your tied to than the machine you use to play games and use said services. You can't have it both ways.

If you want to ensure people stay subbed then supporting the older hardware for a little while longer is going to happen. Hell xb360 helped growth in the early years of xbox one for XBLIVE MAU numbers.

AegonSnake said:
bumping older topics to console war, troll and gloat. stuff thats usually frowned upon here.

Were not gloating, we just were right in our discussion of the topic. Facts pointed to this being the case when you have to target older hardware. Sacrifices will have to be made engine wise. And that is very apparent in some of the titles shown specifically Halo.

CrispyGamer · Jul 23, 2020

Case closed Mods can close this thread now

Klokwerk · Jul 23, 2020

ClamBuster said:
apart from the odd visual bell and whistle, the X1X is perfectly comfortable with 90% of what we saw today...

You mean 100 %...

Knight613 · Jul 23, 2020

Soul Skater said:
It doesn't even make sense. Why are they so committed to not just jumping into next gen. After how this one went you would figure they would be dying for a clean break

They probably just don't think they can sell very much Series X hardware to make a full next gen exclusive plausible. So they want to rely on their already existing install base with the Xbox One as long as they can to boost sales/Game Pass subs.

RSena7 · Jul 23, 2020

I think what might hold Series X more than anything is a mandate that Series X is the 4K box and Lockhart is the 1080p box.

Ploid 6.0 · Jul 23, 2020

Golvellius said:
Flight Simulator looks mighty impressive.

Ace Combat always looked impressive. I see when you're on the ground in Flight Sim 2020 it at least looks a lot better than Ace Combat (not comparing them, but when you're in the air, the floor below can look awesome depending on how close you get. Then there's how much you can do on the ground in flying games.

I watched gameplay videos of Flight Sim 2020 and it's nice but not something that seems next gen worthy. I'm sure it took a lot of data to recreate the locations and world, and that seem to show with how big the game is on PC apparently. That's just extra art, the same can be said about crowd modded Skyrim SE. My install takes up over 130 gigs, and it looks nice but not Horizon, Assassin's Creed Odyssey/Origins nice, the variety in textures, unique gear/weapons, locations, and 3d geometry though.

icecold1983 · Jul 23, 2020

AegonSnake said:
bumping older topics to console war, troll and gloat. stuff thats usually frowned upon here.

What? How on earth is any part of what ive said console warring? And how is being right gloating?

Klokwerk · Jul 23, 2020

Soul Skater said:
It doesn't even make sense. Why are they so committed to not just jumping into next gen. After how this one went you would figure they would be dying for a clean break

Because their new strategy is selling you gamepass and letting you play it on any platform.

There will be great games on gamepass, but the side effect is it will increase the gap in visuals between PS5 exclusives and Xbox games.

Deleted member 46804 · Jul 23, 2020

Soul Skater said:
It doesn't even make sense. Why are they so committed to not just jumping into next gen. After how this one went you would figure they would be dying for a clean break

You haven't been paying attention. Subs to Game Pass and selling their games on as many platforms as possible is what they are after.

The Last One · Jul 23, 2020

Soul Skater said:
It doesn't even make sense. Why are they so committed to not just jumping into next gen. After how this one went you would figure they would be dying for a clean break

Probably because if they release crossgen games the people stuck in the old hardware won't feel the need of cancel their gamepass subscription.

Klokwerk · Jul 23, 2020

They want XSX owners to get the full PC owner experience. I mean having a really powerful machine but no game correctly using it.

Ploid 6.0 · Jul 23, 2020

AegonSnake said:
bumping older topics to console war, troll and gloat. stuff thats usually frowned upon here.

It's not console warring. It's the topic Phil brought up, that old gen can't hold new gen consoles back. That consoles don't hold PC games back, or making games that work on all computers won't hold back the possibilities of a high end gaming PC being challenged. Look at games made for all PCs, like a free to play MMO. Lets say League of Legends, Team Fight Tactics, Paladins (any Hi-Rez Studios game really), Valorant, Counter Strike Go, or World of Warcraft.

New info was shown on this topic, proof that people could see outside of being told that PC do get held back by stuff. Halo Infinite could have came out looking like a next gen game, I kind of expected it to add on a ton of bells and whistles since it had a lot to work with (though ray tracing wasn't ready).

Klokwerk · Jul 23, 2020

EGOMON said:
But I thought scaling games is just a slider settings

Well, maybe they started with the slider all the way down.

Dphex · Jul 23, 2020

Klokwerk said:
They want XSX owners to get the full PC owner experience. I mean having a really powerful machine but no game correctly using it.

DoubleTake · Jul 23, 2020

Klokwerk said:
They want XSX owners to get the full PC owner experience. I mean having a really powerful machine but no game correctly using it.

Damn lol

Ploid 6.0 · Jul 23, 2020

Klokwerk said:
They want XSX owners to get the full PC owner experience. I mean having a really powerful machine but no game correctly using it.

This is what made me hesitate going too far on PC hardware the last time I upgraded. What would I have even done with all that power? More games running at 4k 144 fps.. oh wait, I didn't even have a 4k 60fps monitor then, and I still don't, 4k 144+ hz is very expensive to buy and I couldn't use freesync with a nvidia card to get that (not buying a locked platform G-Sync monitor).

Csr · Jul 23, 2020

AegonSnake said:
bumping older topics to console war, troll and gloat. stuff thats usually frowned upon here.

The last post was only 4 days old, why would people make a new thread on the same subject when there is already one?
What makes those comments "console war" material? Just because they don't agree with Phil they are console warriors?
This showcase was a very good argument for the people who disagree with Phil, is mentioning this fact gloating?
Even if it was gloating, what was said and how is what matters to deem it bad posting.

AegonSnake · Jul 23, 2020

icecold1983 said:
What? How on earth is any part of what ive said console warring? And how is being right gloating?

Csr said:
The last post was only 4 days old, why would people make a new thread on the same subject when there is already one?
What makes those comments "console war" material? Just because they don't agree with Phil they are console warriors?
This showcase was a very good argument for the people who disagree with Phil, is mentioning this fact gloating?
Even if it was gloating, what was said and how is what matters to deem it bad posting.

Ploid 6.0 said:
It's not console warring. It's the topic Phil brought up, that old gen can't hold new gen consoles back. That consoles don't hold PC games back, or making games that work on all computers won't hold back the possibilities of a high end gaming PC being challenged. Look at games made for all PCs, like a free to play MMO. Lets say League of Legends, Team Fight Tactics, Paladins (any Hi-Rez Studios game really), Valorant, Counter Strike Go, or World of Warcraft.

New info was shown on this topic, proof that people could see outside of being told that PC do get held back by stuff. Halo Infinite could have came out looking like a next gen game, I kind of expected it to add on a ton of bells and whistles since it had a lot to work with (though ray tracing wasn't ready).

just trying to warn you guys. look up my posts in this thread, i disagreed with Phil.

carry on. maybe im being too scared or maybe ive been scarred by my previous bans.

BlastProcessing · Jul 23, 2020

Klokwerk said:
They want XSX owners to get the full PC owner experience. I mean having a really powerful machine but no game correctly using it.

Nostradamus · Jul 23, 2020

Fisty said:
I mean, it was also underwhelming because of what we saw running on actual PS5 hardware, things like Ratchet and that UE5 demo. I've been saying for months (since I read Matt Booty's old "no XGS next-gen exclusives for 1-2 years" correctly) that they can have the most powerful console all day but it won't matter if they arent going to make games that show off that discrepancy... and clearly the whole "it just scales" nonsense has been laid bare imo

If you took a know-nothing casual off the street, showed them the Playstation conference and this Xbox Conference back to back and asked them which console they think is more powerful, what do you think they would say?

My point was that even in isolation there is a discrepancy between what is shown and their messaging. It doesn't help either that the One X will probably provide a very similar experience.

meenseen84 · Jul 23, 2020

I thought the games looked great and 60fps will be very welcome. Are engines to all of a sudden become more advanced like a flip of the switch because of hardware? I could see Xbox One holding back game design one day, but graphics, not sure how that is applicable.

2Blackcats · Jul 23, 2020

Probably doesn't help that lots of us have just finished\are still playing TLOU2.

Surprised people are arguing it looked good. That screenshot doing the rounds is an officially released one, not a capture of a bad moment.

That said, as mentioned above shooting for 4k\60fps is going to take a toll. Wonder if there will be options...?

BlastProcessing · Jul 23, 2020

meenseen84 said:
I thought the games looked great and 60fps will be very welcome. Are engines to all of a sudden become more advanced like a flip of the switch because of hardware? I could see Xbox One holding back game design one day, but graphics, not sure how that is applicable.

That's where road maps come in handy.

Niks · Jul 23, 2020

The first wave of XSX cross gen titles are going to be heavily scrutinized. Will be interesting to see how lockhart comes in in all of this.

Rodelero · Jul 23, 2020

Opus Angelorum said:
I feel they were damned if they do, damned if they don't with this. There would have been huge uproar if Infinite hadn't been 4k / 60fps.

If it looked amazing at a lower resolution, with cutscenes at 30 looking even more amazing, then the uproar would have been a loud minority. Instead they've hyped up what has ended up being an actual meme-spawning humiliation.

Deleted member 49643 · Jul 23, 2020

Why didn't they just focus on making it next gen, and then bring it to older consoles and weaker devices through xCloud?

P A Z · Jul 23, 2020

So Phil has been going out doing interviews talking about not leaving XB1 owners behind while knowing half their lineup for tonight are XSX exclusives.

gogojira · Jul 23, 2020

I mean, if things don't drastically change I'll eat crow. It's way too early to say because Infinite is cross gen, but it's definitely pretty rough looking. I suspect that has more to do with a rocky and long dev cycle more than the fact that it's also releasing on Xbox One.

Other than that, the conference felt like a bunch of CG trailers and that the XGS teams are still a ways off from delivering games. I don't want to downplay the difficult creating games but it's been a while and I'm still not impressed with their current crop of first party games. They're mostly years off and too far away for me to care about.

Csr · Jul 23, 2020

gogojira said:
I mean, if things don't drastically change I'll eat crow. It's way too early to say because Infinite is cross gen, but it's definitely pretty rough looking. I suspect that has more to do with a rocky and long dev cycle more than the fact that it's also releasing on Xbox One.

I disagree with Phil but i think this is true considering it looks worse than a lot of current gen games.

Gamerasi · Jul 23, 2020

We saw another lie today.

VG Aficionado · Jul 23, 2020

Niks said:
The first wave of XSX cross gen titles are going to be heavily scrutinized. Will be interesting to see how lockhart comes in in all of this.

I expect the Lockhart version to look just like that but slightly blurrier and people struggling to justify native 4K over good 1080p or a reconstructed higher resolution.

I think Lockhart will show most consumers that you don't need more in order to get 90% of the next generation experience. Game studios are far more important than hardware.

Spork4000 · Jul 23, 2020

VG Aficionado said:
I expect the Lockhart version to look just like that but slightly blurrier and people struggling to justify native 4K over good 1080p or a reconstructed higher resolution.

I think Lockhart will show most consumers that you don't need more in order to get 90% of the next generation experience. Game studios are far more important than hardware.

That's probably heavily dependent on the screen you're playing on. If you have a 4K hdr tv with 120fps support and you get Lockhart you'll be disappointed, granted almost no one fits in that camp.

VG Aficionado · Jul 23, 2020

Spork4000 said:
That's probably heavily dependent on the screen you're playing on. If you have a 4K hdr tv with 120fps support and you get Lockhart you'll be disappointed, granted almost no one fits in that camp.

The enthusiasts will only be pleased with the best hardware for sure, but the majority of gamers could be just fine with what Lockhart will be able to provide indeed, particularly among those who won't spend $500 or more at launch. I honestly believe it can be Microsoft's ace up their sleeve.

Deleted member 25042 · Jul 23, 2020

Let old gens die please.

Spork4000 · Jul 23, 2020

VG Aficionado said:
The enthusiasts will only be pleased with the best hardware for sure, but the majority of gamers could be just fine with what Lockhart will be able to provide indeed, particularly among those who won't spend $500 or more at launch. I honestly believe it can be Microsoft's ace up their sleeve.

Really depends imo. Usually stripped down consoles get outsold at launch, but the difference is usually only $100 at most. If Lockhart comes in at less than $299 it could kill, but if it's $349 I think it's dead in the water.

Detective · Jul 23, 2020

This is so laughable and it was proven on the show.
Man am so frustrated..

SharpX68K · Jul 23, 2020

Well this statement turned out to be complete bullshit.

Halo Infinite on Xbox Series X looks like a game designed for a 1.3 TF GPU, the original Xbox One.

headspawn · Jul 23, 2020

Bold One · Jul 23, 2020

Marmelade said:
Let old gens die please.

kill them, if you have to.

Slaythe · Jul 23, 2020

Ratchetdude231 said:
I do find it baffling that people were expecting a next gen game in Halo Infinite. Like, not to come off as defending the game, because frankly I don't think it looks very good either, but a game that's been in development for the better part of 5 years, originally starting development and targeting Xbox One/Xbox One X is not going to look like a next gen game just because it's coming to Series X as well.

I'm more surprised by the fact that there are actually quite the number of first party Series X only titles. the only caveat is, they are all seemingly years away. I think only Forza is 2021.

But it doesn't even look as good as the best current gen titles, so that's a legitimate concern considering it's the flagship title of MS..

Fabtacular · Jul 23, 2020

Spork4000 said:
Really depends imo. Usually stripped down consoles get outsold at launch, but the difference is usually only $100 at most. If Lockhart comes in at less than $299 it could kill, but if it's $349 I think it's dead in the water.

It's all about the comparisons. I feel like Lockhart has to have $150 of daylight between it and the other next-gen consoles.

Simuly · Jul 23, 2020

I think the game looked really bad for a flagship AAA title but more worrying is it doesn't look ready for a October release.

Phil Spencer: "the diversity of hardware choice in PC has not held back the highest fidelity PC games on the market"

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