Okay holy hell is Super Mario Sunshine as bad as it looks?
- Thread starter SolidChamp
- Start date
The voice acting is weird yeah.
but the game is really unique in that it's pretty cohesive in it's setting and has the best world building of any 3D Mario. It stands out positively for me because of that. It'll always be an odd duck but charming and unique.
It's too unpolished from a gameplay perspective though, definitely. Especially by Nintendo standards
but the game is really unique in that it's pretty cohesive in it's setting and has the best world building of any 3D Mario. It stands out positively for me because of that. It'll always be an odd duck but charming and unique.
It's too unpolished from a gameplay perspective though, definitely. Especially by Nintendo standards
Not at all. I think it's been "in" to hate on Sunshine for a while now. It has it's flaws just like any other game and many of those have been pointed out already. Some are a bigger deal to some than me.
We're talking about a game that was well reviewed by the vast majority of people. It's unique and does some things incredibly well. If an update of Sunshine comes out I'll play it again for sure.
It just happens to be sandwiched between one of the most important games of all time in Mario 64 and the beloved Galaxy pair.
We're talking about a game that was well reviewed by the vast majority of people. It's unique and does some things incredibly well. If an update of Sunshine comes out I'll play it again for sure.
It just happens to be sandwiched between one of the most important games of all time in Mario 64 and the beloved Galaxy pair.
Beyond the cutscenes being unskippable, that is something I would give it yeah.
"Now, now boys don't touch that stuff!"
"It's moving!"
I actually do legitimately enjoy how cheesy it is. I don't know what it is about it, but I love it. Don't care if people say it's bad, maybe it is, but I like it the same either way. The only shame is that they can't be skipped, and so they do get old due to that, otherwise I would have zero problem with them.
Plus, the game introduced Bowser Jr. Who I have zero problem with and infinitely prefer to say the Koopalings personally. Because love him or hate him, feel however you want about him, at least there's only one Junior compared to seven Koopalings so he takes up a lot less space in a game than they do, so to speak. If I had to pick one or the other to have for the rest of time, I'd pick Jr, easily. Especially since as far as Jr has developed in a gimmick in later games, his gimmick appears to be "mechs" which naturally offers much more potential diversity than the gimmicks of the other Koopalings, especially in stuff like say the Galaxies and yes, Sunshine itself as well, so easy choice there for me personally.
...Just a shame that in practice he's just a +1 to the Koopalings instead, but theoretically speaking, I mean.
Plus, in like the Parental Controls videos Nintendo has put out for those features on various platforms, the stuff between Bowser and Jr is super adorable and we wouldn't have that if Jr didn't exist and we wouldn't have that without Sunshine.
So I can definitely give it that much, easily, and certainly appreciate it for that, but I suppose that might be getting kind of off-track and away from Sunshine itself, so I'll leave it there.
I replayed it not too long ago, and was really surprised at how I even managed to get through it as a kid. There are so many sections of the game that are absolutely brutal. It's easily the hardest of the 3D Mario games.
It's the worst 3D Mario game by a large margin. There's just so many low points:
-Scrapping 70 star progression to get to the final boss and instead requiring specific Shines.
-Making Yoshi awful.
-The giant stingray mission
-The red coins on the sand bird.
-Awful final boss fight.
-Bad chase sequences.
-That goddamn pachinko machine(which admittedly led to one of the greatest Game Grumps meltdowns ever).
That said, the Flood-less segments were really well done at least.
-Scrapping 70 star progression to get to the final boss and instead requiring specific Shines.
-Making Yoshi awful.
-The giant stingray mission
-The red coins on the sand bird.
-Awful final boss fight.
-Bad chase sequences.
-That goddamn pachinko machine(which admittedly led to one of the greatest Game Grumps meltdowns ever).
That said, the Flood-less segments were really well done at least.
I don't play old systems so it's been nearly 20 years since I've played it, but I loved it at the time. The struggle with the camera was real, but I thought the gameplay was excellent and I loved the look of it.
You're not wrong, OP. It's a buggy, rushed game with a lot of problems, it caused me to have little desire for another 3D Mario game until Galaxy released. And it was bad enough that it missed the Gamecube launch, then a year later Sunshine finally releases and it's so incredibly unpolished and underwhelming. What on earth was going on with the development of this game? I enjoyed some of it and would buy a remaster but there are so many issues that would have to be fixed.
Also, ITT people saying not even Odyssey is on par level and design wise with Sunshine, to each their own but the nostalgia for this game is a powerful drug.
Also, ITT people saying not even Odyssey is on par level and design wise with Sunshine, to each their own but the nostalgia for this game is a powerful drug.
I'd compare it more to Skyward Sword than Windwaker(because SS had lower lows than WW ever had, same with Sunshine compared to other Marios) but I see why you immediately went to that game for the comparison.
Incidentally, Skyward Sword is also a garbage pile that would be regarded as a 7/10 at best if not for the Zelda branding.
Thank God for Breath of the Wild.
It's the worst Mario game I have ever played outside of the spinoff shit. I got that and Luigi's Mansion when I got my gamecube all those years ago. Hated Sunshine, hated the water mechanics, hated the level design and mission structure. Luigi's Mansion was great though.
I would have rated it worse than that due to the game's pacing alone(unless you're using the IGN rating system of everything below 7 being equal to zero). People claim Spirit Tracks is the worst Zelda but sometimes I think back to Skyward Sword and all of its bullshit, and it's a close call for me.
Matthewmatosis gives a fairer shake at it.
The platforming is as good as ever, but definitely has rough spots, especially the less forgiving camera.
The platforming is as good as ever, but definitely has rough spots, especially the less forgiving camera.
if by bad you mean great then yes! I actually 100%'d this back in the day.... except that pachinko level. I never could beat it.
I barely beat the game as a kid. Most of the levels were made by a masochist lol The game is hard and unforgiving
I enjoyed it for all its flaws. I'm just mad I had to pay $30 for it as a Players Choice because Nintendo thought their best sellers were worth $10 more than what Sony and Microsoft did. But I enjoyed it.
I still hope it gets a remaster that fixes the biggest flaws. I hope that HD 3D Mario remaster rumor ends up being true. Especially if it means I can eventually have every mainstream Mario on my Switch at some point.
I still hope it gets a remaster that fixes the biggest flaws. I hope that HD 3D Mario remaster rumor ends up being true. Especially if it means I can eventually have every mainstream Mario on my Switch at some point.
There are clearly things that don't work in it. Most levels aren't memorable or replayable for instance, and feel like they should be in a game that isn't a Mario.
... and yet, I'd like nintendo to experiment with the next Mario like they did with this one. It's basically a different, unexpected direction. Not perfect, but interesting nontheless.
... and yet, I'd like nintendo to experiment with the next Mario like they did with this one. It's basically a different, unexpected direction. Not perfect, but interesting nontheless.
I admit, the nostalgia is a big factor in my love for this game.
But it did have some ridiculous difficulty spikes. The watermelon. Poison river red coins. Pachinko. But even those won't stop me from playing the upcoming remaster. The atmosphere is just impeccable. Love it to pieces. And soon I'll be able to enjoy it in HD and on the go.
But it did have some ridiculous difficulty spikes. The watermelon. Poison river red coins. Pachinko. But even those won't stop me from playing the upcoming remaster. The atmosphere is just impeccable. Love it to pieces. And soon I'll be able to enjoy it in HD and on the go.
That's certainly not the popular opinion on the game. It seems you either love it or hate it though. I personally love Sunshine (probably my second favorite after 64).
Galaxy 1 and 2 just control kinda off to me (though the level design is impeccable), and I honestly hated Odyssey with a burning passion, outside of the excellent feeling of controlling mario in that game. Fucking put Odyssey game feel into Galaxy and that's my winner haha.
People who believe in Hell think its ruler is Satan. I actually saw on a youtube gameplay of Mario Sunshine who ruled Hell and it's the fucking shadow stingray you need to fight in order to bring the hotel back
Imagine being a Super Mario Sunshine speedrunner. It's a fate worse than death.
It's the best 3D Mario because it's the only one that provides an actual challenge from start to finish. Every other 3D Mario is way too easy for the most time.
I've gone back to replay Sunshine repeatedly whereas I don't know if I ever will for the Galaxy or 3D Land/World games, because Mario feels way better to control in Sunshine than he does in any of those other games. The tropical atmosphere really fits the mood of a game I can go back to and mess around for a while. The later games nerfed Mario's abilities so heavily that once I've seen the gimmicks of the levels, the appeal of playing the game has largely been exhausted. It's like removing the run button from 2D Mario.
That would be Pokemon speedrunning, where the RNG hates you so much you have to reset for dozens of minutes just to get a starter Pokemon with good enough genetics to actually begin a run. Though I think nowadays they have good manips for a lot of the games.
I loved it when it came out.
Good memories.
I didn't read the internet so my ??-year old brain at the time was perfectly happy. In retrospect, sure, there are some down moments, but fuck it, it was great fun.
Good memories.
I didn't read the internet so my ??-year old brain at the time was perfectly happy. In retrospect, sure, there are some down moments, but fuck it, it was great fun.
The cutscenes are awful, collecting blue coins is a pain, and there are plenty of BS Shines and challenges.
BUT the game itself I've always thought was gorgeous (the water, the heat haze, the goop effects), the music and the whole tropical theme was fantastic, and the controls are great.
IMO there's definitely more good than bad to the game, it's just not a game I'd ever want to play to 100%.
Maybe if the remake adds a Blue Coin tracker so I can find them easier (and track which ones I've collected already).
BUT the game itself I've always thought was gorgeous (the water, the heat haze, the goop effects), the music and the whole tropical theme was fantastic, and the controls are great.
IMO there's definitely more good than bad to the game, it's just not a game I'd ever want to play to 100%.
Maybe if the remake adds a Blue Coin tracker so I can find them easier (and track which ones I've collected already).
Nah, in all seriousness, despite my misgivings about Sunshine, as far as speedruns go, it's one of my favorite 3D Mario games to run speedruns of. Really can't explain why exactly, but something about it just fascinates me in ways that speedruns of the other 3D Marios really don't. It's just really cool to me what they're able to pull off with this game, and I dunno, I just really like it as far as that stuff goes even if I can't explain why myself.
I see from a more critical perspective why Mario Sunshine is probably the "worst" of the 3D Mario games. But from a personal perspective the tone and aesthetic of it's whole tropical island vacation getaway theming is so comfy and fun that I enjoy my time with it more than any of the other 3D Mario games.
Also I think the controls are actually really tight and FLUDD adds an extra layer of unappreciated platforming excellence. It's definitely the most janky/buggy of the 3D Mario games with the most lows though. Regardless, I'd die for that game.
Also I think the controls are actually really tight and FLUDD adds an extra layer of unappreciated platforming excellence. It's definitely the most janky/buggy of the 3D Mario games with the most lows though. Regardless, I'd die for that game.
What ? I mean i WAS disappointed by the lack of variety, the way it padded 120 stars by putting blue coin everywhere and certain shines was quite bad..
... But a bad game ? Lacking personality ? I don't agree at all ! This is a Mario that dared to change the world a little from the usual something we wouldn't see again until.... Mario Odyssey ? It also have a lot of cohesion in its world which made me really invested in it. Heck, even that strange "Whodunit" scenario reminded me of Mario RPG's stuff, it was quite fun !
... Still i think i only dislike 3D Land and Galaxy 2 more than this one.. So yeah, it was still a disappointment somehow...
... But a bad game ? Lacking personality ? I don't agree at all ! This is a Mario that dared to change the world a little from the usual something we wouldn't see again until.... Mario Odyssey ? It also have a lot of cohesion in its world which made me really invested in it. Heck, even that strange "Whodunit" scenario reminded me of Mario RPG's stuff, it was quite fun !
... Still i think i only dislike 3D Land and Galaxy 2 more than this one.. So yeah, it was still a disappointment somehow...
with a remake that adds content and fixes and polishes some stuff it has pretty great potential
oh my god he sucks at this game so much.
I'll tell you what happened:
he really really sucks.
Oh wow listened to the rest of the video they just suck as people.
this is game grumps? I would ask 'why are they so popular' but....it's youtube. the most popular youtuber plays childrens games and screams obscenities at the camera so...yah.
Last edited:
i thought that odyssey is fantastic but there are some points of the game that just get frustrating for me. interesting how it has its own cult of hatred on this site, but then again i tend to enjoy the more controversial game releases (such as sunshine)
i would rank galaxy last to be honest, though they are good games.
Super Mario Sunshine is good, actually! it gets a lot of hate for no reason, it's a nice fresh take
You're right in how you feel OP. Giving the game a shot a fair number of years ago, it feels like it was made by an entirely different developer than 64. What that game understands about quality of controls and level design is completely absent from Sunshine. Most of the goals given are an exercise in frustration, most of all that damn pachinko level, as well as the blue coins, and like someone else mentioned, the game decides to force you into completing specific goals in order to progress through the game, so it isn't always possible to skip over the parts you don't wanna do. I can only assume that it's as bad a game as it is because of its rushed development, so maybe a remaster that polishes it a lot more could salvage it.
I mean he beats the level and the game's water physics glitch out and just catapult him off the stage for no reason lol