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Okay holy hell is Super Mario Sunshine as bad as it looks?

SolidChamp

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
My son and I are watching a long play on YouTube because he's been curious about the various iterations of Mario. So Mario Sunshine comes up and we put on a long play and right from the start this game feels so...off.

I'm assuming this video is using an emulator of some sort but I'm no expert:



From the horribly awkward cutscenes to the ugly looking world and boring ass gameplay...what's going on here? Is THIS worth a remaster?

I missed a lot of GameCube games back in the day (I had bought one primarily for RE4) but watching this video makes me glad I missed this.

Am I wrong though? What are some of your opinions on Super Mario Sunshine?
 
Nugnip

Nugnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,747
It's really not as bas as people like to pretend, but it's not great either, and I'm not excited about the rumored remaster, unless they do a ton of work on it.
 
MeepMerp

MeepMerp

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May 2, 2020
541
It's no 64 but the levels are pretty good. It feels better once you get your hands on a controller. It's also better on an emulator, but it does do a bunch of weird level decisions and stuff like that.
 
Alien Bob

Alien Bob

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Nov 25, 2017
2,537
It's bad for a Mario game, but it's not terrible on its own. Got a ton of charm though, and I look mostly fondly back at it for the nostalgia factor
 
SigSig

SigSig

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Oct 26, 2017
4,777
The cutscenes are dumb and the game, like Windwaker, is rushed and unfinished. However, also like Windwaker, it's a gem in the rough. It's very much one of the weaker 3D Mario titles due to the state it released in (in a complete and polished state it would probably be number 1, real talk), but it's still a real good game. Gameplay also isn't boring, imo.
 
Ganado

Ganado

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Oct 25, 2017
2,183
It might not be the best Mario game but I think it was fun, certainly unique.
 
Kickfister

Kickfister

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May 9, 2019
1,871
Well for one: that's being stretched to 16:9 which is just a bad look in general. That could really be affecting your impression of the game.
 
Gambit

Gambit

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Oct 27, 2017
1,178
Caiusto said:
It's by far the worst 3D Mario game, the level design is a nightmare.
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Exactly my opinion. I'll give it another chance when it's remastered, but the underlying game will undoubtedly be the same. And that game is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to 3D Mario. Actually, pretty far down even when you take into account 2D.
 
Cokesouls

Cokesouls

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Oct 28, 2017
1,350
I remember borrowing it from someone when I was a Kid and already thinking back then how bored from it I was. It is the one stain on Super Mario Legacy.
Was having way more fun with Sonic Adventure 2 on my GC and that's saying something.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,738
It's not great when you stack it up against the other 3D Mario's, but I still love the environments and atmosphere and FLUDD makes world traversal quite enjoyable. Too bad the level design is so underwhelming.
 
Garlic

Garlic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,689
It's not a flatout bad game, in fact I'd say it's a good game, but man its lows are fucking LOW.

Don't agree with ugly though, games still looks fantastic.
 
Kickfister

Kickfister

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May 9, 2019
1,871
To the people claiming that sunshine's level design is bad: what do you think about Odyssey's level design? Just really curious, I don't remember having issues with Sunshine's levels, but Odyssey's are some of the most boring levels I've ever experienced in a 3D platformer.
 
Orbulon

Orbulon

Member
Nov 1, 2017
551
France
It's an endlessly fascinating game with unique mechanics but I agree that it's as uneven as it gets. Very high highs and very low lows.
 
SigSig

SigSig

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Oct 26, 2017
4,777
obligatory viewing for people who enjoyed the abstract levels more than the worlds:

 
LinkStrikesBack

LinkStrikesBack

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Oct 27, 2017
16,602
On the scale of Mario 3d platformers, yeah, it's bad. It's still playable as a 3D game, e.g. it's not like you're trying to play bubsy, but the quality bar is much lower here than 3d mario has been at any other point in its history. And there are large chunks of sunshine that are just outright bad.

2002 had Nintendo pushing out games blatantly before they were finished to try and salvage the gamecube, so we ended up with Sunshine and Wind waker that have huge obviously missing chunks of content and cut corners, and being much less polished than other games in the respective series.
 
Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,683
It's comfortably the worst 3D Mario, but that still leaves it as a fairly decent game.

Nintendo very palpably learned from it, and none of its worst flaws are anywhere to be seen in subsequent games.
Oopy Doopy said:
To the people claiming that sunshine's level design is bad: what do you think about Odyssey's level design? Just really curious, I don't remember having issues with Sunshine's levels, but Odyssey's are some of the most boring levels I've ever experienced in a 3D platformer.
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Odyssey's levels are unparalleled playgrounds, simple to traverse but incredibly fun to master, and with a density of content and discovery that Sunshine isn't even on nodding terms with. Part of that's down to how well Mario controls in Odyssey and the overall design of the game, but there's really no comparison to be drawn.

Nothing in Sunshine is anywhere near as fun as haring about New Donk City.
 
Patitoloco

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
After watching Steal my Sunshine, it's baaaaad.

(it's not bad on its own, but it's not even close to other 3D Marios in polish or level design)
 
Shopolic

Shopolic

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,034
Played it after my AMAZING experience with Galaxy 1&2 and it wasn't good compared to them. Maybe it gets better in next hours, but the first 2 hours was so boring for me and wasn't fun like other Mario games.
 
ffdgh

ffdgh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,896
The Mushroom Kingdom
I had fun but some of it's flaws can be incredibly obnoxious to deal with.

Lava-Boat.jpg
 
JoRu

JoRu

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Oct 25, 2017
1,813
Well, I'd agree that it's the worst 3D Mario, but ugly? It looks fantastic for its time.
 
Noppie

Noppie

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Oct 27, 2017
13,857
It's ok. It has really 'low lows' and not too many 'great greats' so it feels a bit lopsided to the negative side, but the overall game is ok really. I had fun with it and look forward to a remaster that fixes several issues (if they decide to do so).
 
Aostia82

Aostia82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,366
SolidChamp said:
My son and I are watching a long play on YouTube because he's been curious about the various iterations of Mario. So Mario Sunshine comes up and we put on a long play and right from the start this game feels so...off.

I'm assuming this video is using an emulator of some sort but I'm no expert:



From the horribly awkward cutscenes to the ugly looking world and boring ass gameplay...what's going on here? Is THIS worth a remaster?

I missed a lot of GameCube games back in the day (I had bought one primarily for RE4) but watching this video makes me glad I missed this.

Am I wrong though? What are some of your opinions on Super Mario Sunshine?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...



I didn't like many parts of its pure core gameplay, but "ugly world"?!
That island is SO CHARMING and the OST is top notch
I'd LOVE an Oddissey DLC inspired by this island, with Oddissey engine
 
The BLJ

The BLJ

Member
Feb 2, 2019
698
France
Mario Sunshine is a wonderful game, only actual flaw I can think of is the lack of easy way to track your blue coins progress.
It's a Nintendo-made, mainline Mario game. I can't understand people who say it's legitimately bad or even just mediocre, unless they're being hyperbolic.
 
HMS_Pinafore

HMS_Pinafore

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Oct 25, 2017
5,237
Straya M8
I didn't play Sunshine until after the Galaxy games so I've got no nostalgia for them, but I didn't think it was great. Dropped it before I got to Bowser.
 
Starsunder

Starsunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,801
The only mainline mario game I flat out dislike. I hate the atmosphere, think they level design is more or less booty, and don't care for the music AT ALL.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
44,633
It's not very good. People make a lot of excuses for it even though it falls far below the standard for Mario platformers.

Oopy Doopy said:
To the people claiming that sunshine's level design is bad: what do you think about Odyssey's level design? Just really curious, I don't remember having issues with Sunshine's levels, but Odyssey's are some of the most boring levels I've ever experienced in a 3D platformer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Odyssey's levels are a bit hit and miss, but some are really fantastic, like New Donk and Steam Gardens. At its worst, the Odyssey levels can be a bit boring, but they're not frustrating and actively unfun like many Sunshine levels.
 
Drillow

Drillow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
122
It needs to be severely reworked to be considered a good Mario game, imo.
The camera, some levels, the blue coins.
And yeah, cutscenes are pretty bad...
 
Protome

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,865
It's definitely the worst 3D Mario, by a huge margin too. It has a handful of good sections but they're overshadowed by everything else.

The special stages that are pure platforming and don't have the FLUDD are better than anything else in that game.
 
sir_crocodile

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,637
It's fine as far as 3D platformers go, but it's the weakest MARIO 3D platformer.

secret fludd-less levels are awesome though



mmmmmm
 
GamerJM

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,797
I actually think the game looks better than it actually is. Pretty nice looking aesthetic, super fun mechanics, speedruns are awesome. In practice the game has a bunch of tedious bullshit that isn't obvious by watching videos.
 
Wariobenotware

Wariobenotware

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 2, 2020
1,869
No.

Sunshine has problems but none of them are related to the core gameplay mechanics. The game was rushed during development and it tried to execute some concepts that were new for the Mario series but the devs didn't have time to do properly. The game was also supposed to run at 60FPS but got downgraded to 30FPS at the last minute. Whenever i replay Sunshine i do it through Nintendont on Wii, which can force the game back to 60FPS. Playing it at that framerate on a CRT makes the game feel infinitely more polished and the game looks much better. It looks amazing.

Think this is one of those games that gets better the more you play and replay it. There is an insane skill ceiling that you can reach with Sunshine just like with Mario 64 that it is a joyous game to replay and speedrun. The controls are amazing and were the best in the Genre untill Odyssey. A whole 15 years later.

The 3D platformer genre was going through a weird phase during the sixth generation. When you go back to the fifth generations offerings everything was a bit more "vanilla"
Devs during the 6th gen time period tried to infuse the genre with more action and more story focus. Mario did it too although not to the same degree as something like Jak 2 or Ratchet and Clank. But it is a sign of the times. Like the reason it "feels off" is because the entire genre was "off" at this time of early 2000s. Nobody wanted just another vanilla 3D Platformer.

Many of the concepts were that Sunshine tried to do were done to near perfection in Odyssey. Sunshine can benefit from a remaster immensely it just needs a list of QOL improvements and a layer of extra polish and it will be pretty much a fantastic game. As it is now i would say it is still a great game that sadly didn't live up to its full potential.

I'm honestly sad that there is a layer of hyperbole when it comes to Sunshine. Where the people who don't like it are as loud as possible. Like people are seriously putting it on the same levels as someting like the 3D Sonic games or some of the really shitty 1st party Nintendo games such as Other M, Skyward Sword or Star Fox Zero. As an example

LOL it isn't anywhere near that bad and it is inuslting that it would be compared to anything like that.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,348
Sydney
Best controlling Mario to this day. Incredible water surface physics and water graphics for the time. Fun new theme instead of generic Mushroom Kingdom, and cleaning up was fun and satisfying.

Just not quite finished, it was rushed.

SigSig said:
The cutscenes are dumb and the game, like Windwaker, is rushed and unfinished. However, also like Windwaker, it's a gem in the rough. It's very much one of the weaker 3D Mario titles due to the state it released in (in a complete and polished state it would probably be number 1, real talk), but it's still a real good game. Gameplay also isn't boring, imo.
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This.
 
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