werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,622
That goes without saying, but it's something else entirely than outright saying X person doesn't write 'good' reviews and that they should stop.

True. Someone's opinions being different than my own doesn't make them invalid. Whining on Twitter that everyone's going to agree with you in the end is rather petty though.

As an aside in response to your previous reply to me about the BD/OT comparison, I was writing up a post but your reply to that other poster on this probably summarizes your reply to mine too. In short, I felt like OT tends to devolve in two phases: 1. break defenses, and 2. attack all-out (with some healing and buffing in between). This ended up getting a bit stale after the 18th hour. While in BD, the flexibility in boosting and giving up turns largely made it so battles didn't have a singular template in the way they do in OT, thereby keeping it all relatively fresh throughout.

Maybe it's different in Bravely Second, but my experience with Bravely Default was that the random encounters became rote really fast because you could just 4 x Brave your whole party at the start of battle & if you had good nukes & high agility, you'd wipe out the enemy party before they even got a chance to move. Boss fights were interesting though.

I do agree that OT's structure does push battles toward a set-up/all-out attack structure. I'm not that far into the game (around halfway through chapter 2), so hopefully later bosses keep things interesting.
 

mindsale

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,911
Someone disagrees with your appraisal of a game.

"He doesn't even like the genre! Why is he even allowed to play the game?"

I loved the game but I enjoy grinding.
 

Anoxida

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,639
This shit is always funny to me, brothers stop watching/reading reviews of a certain person because they don't like the same game you like. Dunkey brought up some legit criticism (repetitiveness, random encounters with a slow combat system), now some of us these things doesn't bother us or we actually enjoy, but you gotta understand that some or most people don't like RE for example. Stop being soft who cares if someone doesn't like the game you like? Nothing wrong with this review at all.
 

Worldshaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,978
Michigan
I like Dunkey and Octopath, but I wonder why he even played this? The demo and early impressions made it pretty clear that the game was going to be an old school grindy repetition fest.

It was pretty obvious that we werent getting a game as polished as Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy 6.

I do agree that the story telling could've been better, and I'd personally give the game an 8/10. It has its flaws, but apparently it's selling well and shows that there is a demand for retro inspired JRPGs.
 

PCPace

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,841
Alabama
I haven't seen any grinding in this game yet. I've done all the chapter 1s so far and about half the chapter 2s, as well as the side dungeons in the chapter 1 areas. I just swap in whoever is lowest level when I start a chapter and they catch up. Because of the job system any combination of characters works. Between chapters or when I'm exploring I just turn on the low encounter skill, and often pass through a full screen without running into an enemy.

I'm not sure where people are seeing the need to grind.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,304
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he have a video recently where he talked about how reviewers all have specific tastes and how its interesting to see a reviewer tackle a genre they don't normally enjoy and see the reviews they give them? Kind of like how an outlet might have a person that always reviews JRPGs, or another person that always reviews FPS, so of course it's their wheelhouse, their comfort zone, so of course the scores line up like you expect but how would a person that isn't into that genre review it? Where's the review for people like that? So he's said before and even in this video he hates turn-based combat and random encounters and gives the "review" you would expect.

Sorry if I'm way off-base by misremembering his previous video but I'm at work and can't review it at the moment!

Either way, I like Dunkey and I'm really excited to buy OT soon, I'm not at all bothered by this review. Just seems like the reaction you'd get from a dude that despises turn-based combat and random encounters.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,529
Yep the criticisms of the game

valid as they are

are not hindering my enjoyment in the slightest

This is one of those games where the good stuff is so good that it completely offsets the bad
 

Clix

Banned
He seems to be mirroring what Jason Schreier has been saying from the beginning about the repetitive nature of the game, so seems it's an actual problem.

It's only an actual problem if everyone feels that way, which is not the case. I don't. It's structure is to me is just like the 16 bit Final Fantasy games, and those games were very linear, hidden by the illusion of an overhead map as you move from town to town and dungeons. This game is more open ended than that for obvious reasons, and the world map is more to scale as going from destination to destination feels like you are actually traveling through the world. So the illusion is still there, but it feels more organic as every area and the town on the map feels part of the ecosystem.

I will also disagree with the writing, as it has some wonderful writing and characterization. Keeping in the vein of 16 bit rpg's, but a better written due to not having space constraints and of course, good localization.
 

Clix

Banned
That goes without saying, but it's something else entirely than outright saying X person doesn't write 'good' reviews and that they should stop.

As an aside in response to your previous reply to me about the BD/OT comparison, I was writing up a post but your reply to that other poster on this probably summarizes your reply to mine too. In short, I felt like OT tends to devolve in two phases: 1. break defenses, and 2. attack all-out (with some healing and buffing in between). This ended up getting a bit stale after the 18th hour. While in BD, the flexibility in boosting and giving up turns largely made it so battles didn't have a singular template in the way they do in OT, thereby keeping it all relatively fresh throughout.

Your point about being economic with complexity is a good one though, so while BD and OT are similar in various ways I do think their audiences and intent differ.

I agree with that. Especially when there are plenty of reviewers who feel differently than Jason. It's okay to not like things and it's okay to like things. Humans are diverse like that.

Now, what I do take issue here, and some people have pointed out, Jason just needs to stop harping on it. We get it. He was disappointed and that is fair, but he keeps going on and on and seems dismissive of those who feel differently. And with that tweet, he words it in such a sweeping "aha, I was right" when looking at word of mouth and other reviewers, that is not the case. It makes it seem like he wants validation. He should not need it. It is perfectly okay to not be keen on something. I was not keen on the new God of War. The first three games are some of my favorites and the new one left me cold. I don't need validation. It was my own personal experience.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,379
I haven't seen any grinding in this game yet. I've done all the chapter 1s so far and about half the chapter 2s, as well as the side dungeons in the chapter 1 areas. I just swap in whoever is lowest level when I start a chapter and they catch up. Because of the job system any combination of characters works. Between chapters or when I'm exploring I just turn on the low encounter skill, and often pass through a full screen without running into an enemy.

I'm not sure where people are seeing the need to grind.

It was the same for me until I finished four of the chapter 2s (my main team). I didn't want to do the other chapter 2s and my party was in the early 30s while the Chapter 2s were 37-40. That means I could either do the chapters I didn't feel like doing or straight up grind a few levels. Both sound like grinding to me.
It's probably going to be the same or an even bigger jump from chapter 3 to 4.
It doesn't bother me but saying there's no grinding involved at all is kind of disingenuous. If I didn't do all 8 chapter 1s I might have had to grind before even doing my first chapter 2.
 
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HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,349
he makes good points, but you can say similar things about most jrpgs. maybe he doesnt like jrpgs in general?
 

artemis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,635
orig
 

Windrunner

Sly
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,627
Ophilia was the character I chose in the prologue demo and the dialogue and pacing was so bad I peaced out after 30 minutes. I love a good JRPG but Octopath is a hodgepodge of all the worst traits of the genre.
 

AppleKid

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,612
Honestly, playing with voice audio turned all the way down makes the dialogue so much better for me. His clips of Olberic and Ophelia definitely would have had me cringing had I played with VA, but just reading the text I didn't think twice about any of it.

I doubt I would think as highly of some of Chrono Trigger's or FFIV's dialogue were it voiced
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,213
Wow I had no idea the story was done like that. Crossing this the fuck off my list. That's hella stupid.
 

Oddish1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,835
That cringey dialogue. Oof!
I just must be stupid because I straight up don't understand what was wrong with it.

Oh wow, Dunkey edited together the times a character said 'your excellency' over an hour long story chapter. That sure does show something, I guess. Hell if I know what it was.
 

Yuuber

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,165
So don't play JRPGs, simple as that.

Like i don't mind people not enjoying JRPGs but i hate soo much when they try so hard to convince you that the JRPG formula is bad and old and nobody should play it.

Cause then you play something like Xenoblade and you have so many revelations with all the plot twists near the end that you wish more modern RPGs would go as deep with the story.

I didn't say people shouldn't play JRPG, nor did the youtuber in question. In fact, I really like Persona 5 and both SMT for the 3ds, to cite some recent quite traditional JRPGs.
 

PCPace

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,841
Alabama
It was the same for me until I finished four of the chapter 2s (my main team). I didn't want to do the other chapter 2s and my party was in the early 30s while the Chapter 2s were 37-40. That means I could either do the chapters I didn't feel like doing or straight up grind a few levels. Both sound like grinding to me.
It's probably going to be the same or an even bigger jump from chapter 3 to 4.
It doesn't bother me but saying there's no grinding involved at all is kind of disingenuous. If I didn't do all 8 chapter 1s I might have had to grind before even doing my first chapter 2.
Doing the chapter 2s you haven't done yet, aka progressing the story, doesn't sound like grinding. That's like saying a divine beast is grinding in Zelda because you didn't want to do it but couldn't beat ganon without the help of it taking his health.
 

Tunahead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
987
Someone disagrees with your appraisal of a game.

"He doesn't even like the genre! Why is he even allowed to play the game?"

I loved the game but I enjoy grinding.

Yeah, what is the deal with all the meltdowns of these hysterical people, saying Videogamedunkey shouldn't even be allowed to play JRPGs!

Well not saying it, but they are implying it.

If you want to get absolutely pedantic, no one's implying it either, but they are probably thinking it.

Well they could be saying it, and that's the same as being right.

This shit is always funny to me, brothers stop watching/reading reviews of a certain person because they don't like the same game you like. Dunkey brought up some legit criticism (repetitiveness, random encounters with a slow combat system), now some of us these things doesn't bother us or we actually enjoy, but you gotta understand that some or most people don't like RE for example. Stop being soft who cares if someone doesn't like the game you like? Nothing wrong with this review at all.

One of those "legit criticisms" is real dumb though. Videogamedunkey does not like JRPGs, and he's upset that a video game in the genre he doesn't like has gameplay elements from that genre. If you can't see the problem with this on your own then I'm sorry but I just don't even know what to tell you.
 
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KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,379
Doing the chapter 2s you haven't done yet, aka progressing the story, doesn't sound like grinding. That's like saying a divine beast is grinding in Zelda because you didn't want to do it but couldn't beat ganon without the help of it taking his health.
I'm not progressing the story I care about. In my case it's more like a bunch of sidequests I'd just do to gain a few levels. I also don't get EXP from the story. I get it from the fights and bosses. So I see no problem comparing it to grinding.
In this case I really don't care either way. I know it's a JRPG and the open structure allows for people to tackle the content in many different ways (or rather in a different order and with different party compositions). It's super hard to balance content like that to a point where you are never overpowered but don't need any grinding to beat the other chapters.
I decided to grind out a few levels because I'd rather do that than do the story missions of the party members I don't really care about.
 

Trickster

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,533
Not sure which I enjoyed most, the video or the salty people posting here.

God forbid someone doesn't like the game you like
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
You have to grind depending on which patch / which traveler you have in your party. I have started the second chapter of the thief and without grinding it's impossible to steal around in order to progress. This is just an example
I really haven't. Started with Therion and travelled clockwise until I got Olberic (had 6 members at this point) and after that used thr same 4.
And with a bit travelling here and there to find some shrines or explore some caves I never needed to grind
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I'm not progressing the story I care about. In my case it's more like a bunch of sidequests I'd just do to gain a few levels. I also don't get EXP from the story. I get it from the fights and bosses. So I see no problem comparing it to grinding.
In this case I really don't care either way. I know it's a JRPG and the open structure allows for people to tackle the content in many different ways (or rather in a different order and with different party compositions). It's super hard to balance content like that to a point where you are never overpowered but don't need any grinding to beat the other chapters.
I decided to grind out a few levels because I'd rather do that than do the story missions of the party members I don't really care about.

And you consider doing side quests to gain levels grinding?

Maybe I'm just old and out of touch but I remember "grinding" being walking around in circles on the world map to trigger more random encounters so I could get more gold and experience. Doing story content/quests in any RPG is not what I'd consider grinding, even if it's not a quest you particularly care about.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,379
And you consider doing side quests to gain levels grinding?

Maybe I'm just old and out of touch but I remember "grinding" being walking around in circles on the world map to trigger more random encounters so I could get more gold and experience. Doing story content/quests in any RPG is not what I'd consider grinding, even if it's not a quest you particularly care about.
Like I said, the story / quest itself doesn't give me EXP. Running around on my way to the boss is the part of the content I would actively need to fulfill my goal (being able to do the chapter 3s). So doing the other chapter 2s is actually less efficient than straight up grinding.
You guys are being pedantic here. If you take issue with me calling it grinding then fine.

Googling for a definition for grinding in video games brings up the following:

Grinding refers to the playing time spent doing repetitive tasks within a game to unlock a particular game item or to build the experience needed to progress smoothly through the game.

Yes, most commonly it is referred to running in circles to fight the same enemies over and over again but doing four chapter 2s just to gain levels sounds repetitive to me, hence my comparison to grinding.
Like I said, if people take issue with my liberal use of the word grinding then I won't bring it up again, but unless you are really lucky with Cait encounters and use Bewildering Dance regularly and get lucky with that, there is at least some grinding involved in getting the required levels to do the later chapters.
Again, I really don't mind it. I'm having a lot of fun with the game so far but as with most JRPGs, some grinding is part of the experience.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Like I said, the story / quest itself doesn't give me EXP. Running around on my way to the boss is the part of the content I would actively need to fulfill my goal (being able to do the chapter 3s). So doing the other chapter 2s is actually less efficient than straight up grinding.
You guys are being pedantic here. If you take issue with me calling it grinding then fine.

Googling for a definition for grinding in video games brings up the following:



Yes, most commonly it is referred to running in circles to fight the same enemies over and over again but doing four chapter 2s just to gain levels sounds repetitive to me, hence my comparison to grinding.
Like I said, if people take issue with my liberal use of the word grinding then I won't bring it up again, but unless you are really lucky with Cait encounters and use Bewildering Dance regularly and get lucky with that, there is at least some grinding involved in getting the required levels to do the later chapters.
Again, I really don't mind it. I'm having a lot of fun with the game so far but as with most JRPGs, some grinding is part of the experience.


I don't really mind your use of the word, you're free to use whatever words you want, I just find it a bit confusing. In general there seems to be this "grinding" sentiment about the game that I'm just not seeing, and I guess that's because different people consider different things to be grinding. I was brought up on the Dragon Warrior/Quest series so I absolutely consider grinding to be mindlessly running in circles to trigger encounters. Or if you know where a Metal Slime spawns you can just walk around there and cut down on the rest of the grinding.

Hell, Dragon Quest 1 is about 85% grinding, 15% game. Octopath to me is almost 100% game in that sense, since you run into battles while you're on the way to tackle story content, which is typically the meat of JRPGs.

In fact, I started my Octopath playthrough with Cyrus and I still have not once enabled his Evasive Maneuvers skill because I want to run into enemies on the way to towns/dungeons/bosses, I like to see the variety of enemies, learn their weaknesses, and in the process get XP and JP. I don't consider any of this grinding, because your purpose is always to advance the plot rather than to train your characters so that you can advance the plot later. I guess in your case it's just a plot you don't particularly care about.

Anyway, different strokes I guess.
 

Tapeworm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
898
I love the combat in this game. I hate the structure. I feel like I never have time to relax and just enjoy the story/game since it encourages me to jump around between everyone's story.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,599
Texas
People calling those nothing conversations between party members meaningful story content are fucking deluded. The characters' stories don't really intersect in any meaningful way for the vast majority of the game. That is a legitimate criticism, regardless of how big of a deal it is for you. Let's not mischaracterize the game's content to smooth over the blemishes it has and rather praise the many things it does right, like the awesome combat system and fun boss fights, and the unique presentation.

I'm loving my time with OT, but that doesn't keep me from acknowledging that the dialogue is mostly shit (though I enjoy reading townsfolk's inquire blurbs) and that the characters themselves are pretty much a smattering of common anime and gaming tropes on rote quests, which even if by design makes them pretty boring.
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,504
I fuck with Dunkey, but I will never understand complaints about having to fight a lot of battles in RPGs...

Encounter rates can be a little off for some games, but there's nothing wrong with random encounters as a concept.
 

Deleted member 36622

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 21, 2017
6,639
I didn't say people shouldn't play JRPG, nor did the youtuber in question. In fact, I really like Persona 5 and both SMT for the 3ds, to cite some recent quite traditional JRPGs.

Persona 5 is not traditional at all, it's the most western friendly JRPG from Atlus.

Even SMT depends on what games you played, SMT Strange Journey okay but like SMT4A for instance is also going through that direction (forget the tradition, make the game more streamlined to appeal new audiences)

My comment was in general cause i've heard this many times in the past, but at the same time i've seen what happened when there very few really good JRPGs because developers were taking these games into different directions and leaving the comfort zone (even the two examples mentioned you have P5 did amazingly well, while on the other SMT4A was a bit criticized), and also you have games like FFXIII or FFXV which tried so hard to move from what FF used to be and in my opinion it didn't work at all.

So i believe if JRPGs are interesting again, is because we are hopefully coming back to their traditional style.
 

Jangowuzhere

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
Man, now I'm even more wary of jumping in deeper. I played the first couple hours and basically had all the same complaints.

The fact that the story basically resets when you get a new character is what I think will really drive me away from this game. I don't think I can handle that 8 times over, and the fact that non of your party members interact with each other in a meaningful way also fucking sucks.
 

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
Like, I'll get Smash and Pokemon ad Spider-Man, and probably Fallout 76, and I'm actually excited for DQ11, but there's nothing in the way of burning hype, you know?
Those are quite a bit of games there Phantom!

I would add Red Dead on there. There are about 5 companies that truly deliver the open world in their own ways. (In no order). Each company below has there own take on it. And any other game simply follows the pattern.

(1) Nintendo (with BotW)
(2) Bethesda
(3) CDProjeckRed
(4) Ubisoft
(5) Rockstar

Rockstar has not given us their take on the open world in quite sometime. So Im very curious what they deliver.

Also, I can't help it, but, like the sucker I am, will be there for Destiny Forsaken.

Im curious about Fallout 76. I mean, the gun play was never great in Bethesda games, so unless they get that right, it just wont be fun. That said, I may give it a go.
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
Dunkey doesn't like JRPGs though? If you like JRPGs, the review is worthless.

If you don't like JRPGs but have been convinced by a few, then it's helpful.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
Those are quite a bit of games there Phantom!

I would add Red Dead on there. There are about 5 companies that truly deliver the open world in their own ways. (In no order). Each company below has there own take on it. And any other game simply follows the pattern.

(1) Nintendo (with BotW)
(2) Bethesda
(3) CDProjeckRed
(4) Ubisoft
(5) Rockstar

Rockstar has not given us their take on the open world in quite sometime. So Im very curious what they deliver.

Also, I can't help it, but, like the sucker I am, will be there for Destiny Forsaken.

Im curious about Fallout 76. I mean, the gun play was never great in Bethesda games, so unless they get that right, it just wont be fun. That said, I may give it a go.
I think the thing is, I am not actually excited for any of that lol (maybe DQ11). I'm probably going to pick the games up, but it's not something I am actively looking forward to.
I do agree with you on the companies that actually manage to deliver on open worlds, and I have respect enough for Rockstar, and what they do. That said, it has been a very long time since I last liked a Rockstar game (I think it was the last PSP one), so I don't actually have (m)any hopes that RDR2 will do anything for me. Their refusal to show any gameplay, and my general apathy to the setting probably adds further to that.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
He seems to be mirroring what Jason Schreier has been saying from the beginning about the repetitive nature of the game, so seems it's an actual problem.

While this may be true, a random encounter turned based JRPG kinda sets you up for that experience, right?

Though I've read that the combat system in this game is a shining point.
 

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
I think the thing is, I am not actually excited for any of that lol (maybe DQ11). I'm probably going to pick the games up, but it's not something I am actively looking forward to.
I do agree with you on the companies that actually manage to deliver on open worlds, and I have respect enough for Rockstar, and what they do. That said, it has been a very long time since I last liked a Rockstar game (I think it was the last PSP one), so I don't actually have (m)any hopes that RDR2 will do anything for me. Their refusal to show any gameplay, and my general apathy to the setting probably adds further to that.
Fair enough. Being the Texan that I am, I can't help but love westerns. (Destiny Forsaken, is a sci-fi western as stated by them). So Im pumped for Red Dead 2.

I enjoyed GTAV for the story, LOVED Red Dead for everything about it.

The rest, yeah, Im with you. There isn't as much HYPE! But to me, thats good. I like playing games without much hype. Hype can throw your expectations off wildly. I like simply coming home, snagging the game out of my mail box, and giving it a go. Without much hype and expectations, you can play the game for what it is and not wanting it to be something it isn't (which it seems lots of folks are having trouble with now). I have enjoyed alot of games because I didn't expect much, but what I got was both surprising and great.
 

Big_Erk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,364
Chief's Kingdom
This shit is always funny to me, brothers stop watching/reading reviews of a certain person because they don't like the same game you like. Dunkey brought up some legit criticism (repetitiveness, random encounters with a slow combat system), now some of us these things doesn't bother us or we actually enjoy, but you gotta understand that some or most people don't like RE for example. Stop being soft who cares if someone doesn't like the game you like? Nothing wrong with this review at all.
My question to you would be, if I don't share the same likes/dislikes as a reviewer why would I read or watch their reviews. Nothing against his reviews, we just don't share the same interests. I do the same thing with movie reviews. If a certain movie critic doesn't like Sci-Fi, me being a fan of that genre will not put much stock into that persons opinion of a Sci-Fi movie.
 

Dizastah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,126
I've been trying to push myself through the game but its just not doing it for me. Stories are just so disjointed. And the dungeons are really boring and short.
Does it get better? I have collected 4 Characters so far. Ophelia, Cyrus, Tressa and Olberic
 

swirlyglasses

Member
Jan 11, 2018
380
not enjoying as much as i thought i would.
especially after everything bravely default did for classic jrpgs.
compared bravely default octopath is pretty bare bones ,but since that's what they were going for i'm more forgiving towards it.