Octopath Traveler (videogamedunkey)
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I understand this but i personally would rather have interaction intertwined with the main story than having to get it from optional side methods. I also understand that the point of the game is mainly the 8 individual storys so what i wanted was never really the focus of this game. But Im also not writing the game off, I very much plan on getting the game just not at the moment.
Basically I know whats offered but its not really in a way that i personally enjoy, but i am still interested enough to purchase it eventually.
Dunkey's whole shtick has gotten old fast for me and my friends. At first it was novel but now I'm kind of over it. Especially after H3H3 podcast interview where he came off as a spectacularly uninteresting person.
That's fair. He's not intelligent enough to make anything in review form worth watching. I love seeing him fool around in indie games though.
You have to grind depending on which patch / which traveler you have in your party. I have started the second chapter of the thief and without grinding it's impossible to steal around in order to progress. This is just an example
Only read the first page but some of you are taking this too seriously. I thought it was an entertaining video. And what I've seen of Dunkey, he enjoys JRPGs. Hence, why he does a video on every big one that comes out.
Unless you speak Japanese. I personally never would do that. Same with anime. I would always prefer having the language I speak. Same reason why I've never played Yakuza.
Wow, your loss... massively. Denying yourself the pleasure of playing one of the finest series of videogames... To each their own, I guess, but in my head that's too much an extreme a stance.
Fun video. Not his best. He's definitely right about the dialogue and story structure. That really is a detriment to the game. Thankfully the battle system is really fun.
They do, just not in their own unique story cutscenes. Guess dunk didn't get that far.
Also, as others have said, just stick to the videos where he goofs around in a game. Dude is pretty funny and a great outside the box thinker, but intellectual critique is his weak point by far.
Yeah I dont agree with him on this one. But looks like triggered some people at least. I had some laughs but overall it was a pretty low effort video.. he couldve done more with it I think.
I agree with the horrible dialogue, but the grinding and turn based combat is my jam this time. :) Also a bit sad he didn't say anything good about the music
Persona has no grinding at all.
... you really miss out dude.
Persona has no grinding at all.
... you really miss out dude.
You almost make it sound as if there's some deep writing hidden there when it's like four windows of text about random things.
These fleeting instances don't do much to alleviate the lack of connective tissue between the characters or the lack of a central thread in the game, which the poster you responded to had issues with.
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This I can't agree with at all, and sounds a bit elitist to be honest. Dunkey is of course at his peak when it comes to comedy, but he often has very thoughtful reviews laced with juvenile humour, which is not the same thing as lacking intelligence.
His Sonic Mania, Mario Odyssey and God of War reviews are particularly excellent, and he has a pretty good way with words about describing a game's good and bad qualities.
This is correct. They are hardly a replacement for actual, plot-centric character interaction.
It's a damn shame, because I love many other elements in this game.
As far as the whole repetitive nature of the game goes, I think Octopath Traveler works better as a slow burn game where you play in shorter sessions rather than a game you try to marathon. When you only have an hour or two to play every few days, it's nice to jump in play a character's chapter or two, go through a dungeon, fight a boss, and solve a few sidequests, but I can see how it'd be easy to burn out if you were trying to finish the game ASAP.
The battle system feels like a big improvement from Bravely Default. The main differences are:
1 - You don't need to default - you automatically get a point most turns.
2 - Brave now boosts a single move instead of letting you use multiple moves.
Those 2 changes speed battles up a lot compared to the Bravely Default games.
3 - You can equip multiple weapons and swap between them mid-battle freely & easily (left/right on the menu). Besides targeting weaknesses, this gives more versatility if you use weapons with secondary effects.
4 - The break system means that speed matters despite being turn-based (breaking an enemy before their move disables both the current turn AND the next turn), hit count matters (more hits equals faster breaks), and by combining both crowd-control & defense dropping in a single system, the player is greatly encouraged to use it.
These 2 changes add depth to the combat compared to the Bravely Default games.
The battle system feels like a big improvement from Bravely Default. The main differences are:
1 - You don't need to default - you automatically get a point most turns.
2 - Brave now boosts a single move instead of letting you use multiple moves.
Those 2 changes speed battles up a lot compared to the Bravely Default games.
3 - You can equip multiple weapons and swap between them mid-battle freely & easily (left/right on the menu). Besides targeting weaknesses, this gives more versatility if you use weapons with secondary effects.
4 - The break system means that speed matters despite being turn-based (breaking an enemy before their move disables both the current turn AND the next turn), hit count matters (more hits equals faster breaks), and by combining both crowd-control & defense dropping in a single system, the player is greatly encouraged to use it.
These 2 changes add depth to the combat compared to the Bravely Default games.
Not really. You get a decent amount of EXP as you play and the party members who fall behind when they don't get used catch up to you very quickly after a few battles. I'd say they struck a good balance with it.
Yeah whilst his snail example is disengenous because he couldn't have broken it in one turn then most likely killed it in the next, the point stands. Random encounters can sometimes be a slog. Granted once you get two scholars everything gets ridiculously easier but still.
I love the game myself but I could see people taking issue with the writing and the random encounters especially.
I love the game myself but I could see people taking issue with the writing and the random encounters especially.
I can fully agree on stories in modern JRPGs
Xenoblade 2 story and characters were so bad it's not even funny
Xenoblade 2 story and characters were so bad it's not even funny
Your first 2 points are actually why I preferred Bravely Default's system;
1 - Sure you have to Default to get extra actions, but those same restrictions also applied to enemies, unlike this game where over time enemies get more and more attacks to the point where I think one of the bosses gets up to 5 attacks per turn, which has always been a peeve of mine.
2 - If anything I think boosting one action slows the game down more since using Brave you would be able to use party hitting skills multiple times in a row (especially ones that hit multiple times in turn) or individually pick melee attacks over multiple enemies would make battles go way faster.
But I agree weapon switching is fun and while the break system is nothing new in itself, it is fun to break an enemy at the beginning of a turn to then have another full turn without repercussion.
edit: Thinking on it I'm sure they could make a free-ratio system where you can choose to have multiple actions boosts to one specific action, for example; attack twice with melee but then use a 2x boosted skill.
As someone who makes RPGs where enemies getting more powerful over time is a core element, it makes a lot of sense why they would do that with Octopath Traveler. In OT, resource management is trivial - SP-restoring items are plentiful and cheap and there are numerous ways to regain SP freely (equipment, passives, skills). Because resource management is a non-issue, the best way to make combat have any threat is by making enemies become more difficult as time goes on (essentially making the resource management factor = time & efficiency).
Richard Garfield (MTG) brought up the idea of a complexity budget in game design. Basically, each rule or system you add to a game costs 1 or more points of complexity budget. If you exceed your complexity budget (which would vary depending on genre & target audience), then people will find your game overly complex (high learning curve) and many people will bounce off it. What this all means is that when debating on whether or not to add a new system or rule to your game, you need to decide if the benefit it gives is worth the added complexity. Basically, you want the most bang for your buck.
Octopath Traveler has a lot of added complexity in various ways compared to Bravely Default - the non-linear world, the path actions, the sidequest system, the break system - so it makes sense that they simplified the bravely/default system to help make up for the added complexity elsewhere. If they had changed boost to be able to both boost a single move or perform multiple moves that would have been even more complexity compared to Bravely Default while not adding a whole lot other than letting player micro-manage more (which could be seen as detrimental).
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The sentence you quoted remains precisely correct. Considering one of Octopath's usual strengths is its economical writing, the fact that the chapter banters specifically are 30 second exchanges isn't preventative of them being good or characterizing, the latter being the adjective I used, not "deep."
Speaking of, "deep writing"? Who knows what that amorphous descriptor requires, or how it relates to classic JRPGs' party interactions, which were rarely... deep. Funny, charming, cute, heartwarming—all qualities Octopath's banter possesses—but deep? Rarely.
I've already listed my own problems with its structural and mechanical implementation. I was specifically responding to the fretting that Octopath had "no character interaction," when in fact it has quite a bit, evenly paced and distributed between characters. The poster you're talking about already responded, by the by, and was able to speak for themself. Their post I quoted only mentioned wanting chemistry.
I love Octopath Traveler, like really.
But this is a sincere review, with good points coming from Dunkey. His points just makes sense when you know his tastes.
Good video, and finally a good negative review about the game that do not try way to hard to discredit the game with stupid bullshit. Looking right now at Jason Schreier who really tries way too hard even one week after release... Stop it man. We KNOW you don't like the game, jeez, don't act like everybody dislike it as much as you.
But this is a sincere review, with good points coming from Dunkey. His points just makes sense when you know his tastes.
Good video, and finally a good negative review about the game that do not try way to hard to discredit the game with stupid bullshit. Looking right now at Jason Schreier who really tries way too hard even one week after release... Stop it man. We KNOW you don't like the game, jeez, don't act like everybody dislike it as much as you.
His Celeste one too (and his Banjo Kazooie even though it's for an old game). Imo he's the best reviewer out there when he eventually makes one. This Octopath video isn't a review even though some people seem to think it is.
This is honestly what my experience has been so far. I'm not out to hate it or anything but I just find the stories really boring, their seeming isolation from each other dissatisfying and the high-rate random encounters a massive backwards step. The encounters problem is compounded by the visuals which make it hard to see where you are going sometimes (Yes I know there's a power to reduce the rate, but that's not really fixing the original issue imo)
I've been popping in and out of that OT and see that everyone seems to love it but I really wonder if there's more like me out there who just get hopelessly bored by this thing. I dread loading it up :(
I've been popping in and out of that OT and see that everyone seems to love it but I really wonder if there's more like me out there who just get hopelessly bored by this thing. I dread loading it up :(
There is definitely repetition in terms of how the chapters work.
I know that that's how they're designed and they're isn't anything bad about it, but it's always annoyed me that that is the way that difficulty is handled since in some games fights can boil down to "Boy I hope the boss doesn't use their party wide attack that just happens to hit for 51% of my HP two times in a row" which makes the affair feel more luck-based than anything else.
But that's a personal gripe based on how I tend to play JRPGs, under levelled and rarely taking advantage of every option at my disposal.
My edited in comment was something I thought of as I was writing to be something of a compromise between the two systems but I see how it could get tedious micro-managing every action of every turn.
I was expecting the stories to pick up, and the amount of fights early were there to prepare and teach you things I thought..
But seriously, given that Jason's favorite JRPG series are Suikoden & Trails, both series where the biggest selling point is the epic storyline that spans multiple games, it's no surprise that Octopath Traveler isn't his jam.
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I really don't see people souring on Octopath as they go on.
WoM has been pretty consistent.
User Warned: Personal attack.
Yeah don't ever read any of Jason's review tbh. It's just bad. Like he is just crying and hating like a baby. Wish he would stop making reviews and stick to his books.
If all you're looking for in reviews is a confirmation of your own views or preferences, perhaps you shouldn't be reading reviews at all.
Nope. The contrast is just too much with other reviewers. Also I just don't like him going on and on about his hate for the next few years. He just hates a lot of games because it doesn't have the story he was expecting it to have. Never found his reviews to be fair, more of defaming JRPG in general.
Conversely, there's nothing wrong with ignoring someone's reviews after you discover that what they value in games is very different than what you value. Whether Jason Schreier likes or dislikes an RPG has no relevance to whether I will like or dislike that same RPG because we're using different rubric on what makes a good game.
I love the game, but I got to agree that battles feels like it takes forever sometime. On the other hand, random battles seriously don't pop up a whole lot, so I think it balance out. Ya just not passing A to win here 10 battles, but rather careful juggle to win one long battle.
This review seems about as silly as me reviewing the shooter genres that I don't have much time for, and pointing out all the things I find ridiculous in them.
With regard to characters not interacting, they tend to have meaningful conversations with the supporting cast in each intro instead. I've read dozens of novels where the narrative moves between different main viewpoint characters and the supporting cast that sets them on their way, only leaving them behind and meeting the other leads in passing towards the end. That you can take them back into other intro chapters in Octopath is just a game thing requiring suspension of disbelief in exchange for freedom to tackle it however you like, much like the abstraction of turn-based combat allowing for tactics in RPGs and strategy games, or the ridiculous amount of weaponry you can carry and damage you can take with no impact on agility in shooters and action games, or any number of RPGs that allow you to take fan-favourite DLC characters, items and costumes into combat no matter how fitting it is.
I suspect many people just apply a higher standard of what they are willing to overlook to genres they dislike, whereas the ones they enjoy have embedded almost a language of convenient things to be overlooked into their perception of the games within it.
With regard to characters not interacting, they tend to have meaningful conversations with the supporting cast in each intro instead. I've read dozens of novels where the narrative moves between different main viewpoint characters and the supporting cast that sets them on their way, only leaving them behind and meeting the other leads in passing towards the end. That you can take them back into other intro chapters in Octopath is just a game thing requiring suspension of disbelief in exchange for freedom to tackle it however you like, much like the abstraction of turn-based combat allowing for tactics in RPGs and strategy games, or the ridiculous amount of weaponry you can carry and damage you can take with no impact on agility in shooters and action games, or any number of RPGs that allow you to take fan-favourite DLC characters, items and costumes into combat no matter how fitting it is.
I suspect many people just apply a higher standard of what they are willing to overlook to genres they dislike, whereas the ones they enjoy have embedded almost a language of convenient things to be overlooked into their perception of the games within it.
I stopped trying to give dunkey the benefit of doubt when he said how he hated random encounters & turn based combat. I mean I can get the the random encounter part since there are tons of examples of how the bad implementation of the mechanic can hurt a game, but literary went wtf when he said turn based based combat. I mean the whole game is a updated love letter to the 8/16 bit era classics, battles are supposed to be goddamn turn based in a game like this, it's only natural that this has town-dungeon-boss flow, it's supposed to have a certain cliches.
That goes without saying, but it's something else entirely than outright saying X person doesn't write 'good' reviews and that they should stop.
As an aside in response to your previous reply to me about the BD/OT comparison, I was writing up a post but your reply to that other poster on this probably summarizes your reply to mine too. In short, I felt like OT tends to devolve in two phases: 1. break defenses, and 2. attack all-out (with some healing and buffing in between). This ended up getting a bit stale after the 18th hour. While in BD, the flexibility in boosting and giving up turns largely made it so battles didn't have a singular template in the way they do in OT, thereby keeping it all relatively fresh throughout.
Your point about being economic with complexity is a good one though, so while BD and OT are similar in various ways I do think their audiences and intent differ.
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