Miami Herald: ‘We are not afraid!’ Cubans take to the streets to demand freedom, food, vaccines

[Miamiwesker]

this is literally the dumbest fucking case of ACTUAL "whataboutism" ive seen on this increasingly deranged US-propagandized site and it will be glossed over

we have an open call for invasion in the thread, tacit support of continuing (one of many) starvation embargoes for the purpose of "regime" change by the most actually authoritarian regime in the world (hint: it aint Cuba or North Korea lmao), apologism for the country respnsible for exporting more death, poverty, misery, and perennial destruction than any in history (hey remember that time in the 70's when the US govt infected the Cuban livestock supply and forced a mass slaughter of the island's swine? or chemically carpeted southeast asia resulting in birth defects to this day?), but yeah, a country with less people than fucking Ohio is just waiting to turn its commie bloodthirst out on the world if given the opportunity, but youll never see a "banned for racism" tag for this

and when those with an actual interest in nuance are decried with any number of incoherent screams of "ultras", "anarchists", "tankies" labels, all that's left is the thundering silent disinterest of those same detractors when their own ostensibly "free" country jails and openly murders people for protesting police brutality, oil companies who do more damage than any country south of the rio grande could dream of, or simply suggest that maybe the people in the richest country in both past and current history by unimaginable proportions shouldnt have to be in debt for the rest of their lives for riding an ambulance, except for a "damn that sucks, anyway THIS OTHER COUNTRY'S GOVERNMENT IS SOOOO EVIL AMIRITE??". Disgusting. Moronic. Shameful.

I constantly see people on this site make accusations of political repression, genocide, police states of countries and their people who they have no interest in beyond being on the "right" side of the (likely state-targeted) social media trend of the day, but pointing out the materially consequential hypocrisy of this ideology and "analysis" that leads nowhere but death and stupidity is labelled "whataboutism" and results in literal silencing

if someone's anecdotal evidence of cuban exiles is weaponized here, it's just another piece of evidence for "regime change"; take the word of people living there, and it's "brainwashed", "tankie", "propaganda" etc. etc. We have elected officials of both US parties, people and places that we ACTUALLY have a material connection to who are ostensibly in the interest of bettering the lives of people here AND abroad in places like Cuba, beating their chest with this imperialist bullshit to spring up nationalist fervor for their electoral campaign warchests... and nothing. quelle surprise.

this site is a fucking clown show

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And here comes the moralizing from the comfort of your home computer. This is a thread about Cuba, and in almost every thread about Cuba a certain group of people always feel the need to rush in and attack the US government. Sure the US government deserves criticism, go make a thread.

In the end all that does in threads about Cuba time and time again is basically "fuck the people of Cuba". I want to talk about how evil america is fuck the people of Cuba.Cuba stood up to the US empire, praise them, but fuck the people of Cuba. Cuban people risk their lives and throw themselves into the sea hoping to reach freedom in America, but they shouldn't do that, fuck America and fuck them.

The Cuban people have finally had enough and are opposition their oppressors and that should be applauded and that's what this should be about. But it's never about the Cuban people, it's always a way for people to share their political viewpoints and who cares about them.

 

[Rover]

your identity is not a stand in for reality, that's not what politics is

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Reality is what our families have had to endure in exile, under oppression. None of your gesturing matters, whoever you are.

 

[Baron Eyepatch]

There have been many good-faith posts in this thread about the consequences of American foreign policy with respect to Cuba. I advise anyone who encounters a bad-faith poster trying to derail the thread to report and ignore. This should be first and foremost a thread about current events in Cuba; if the discussion gets too far off-track it may be locked.

 

[Shodan14]

And my other issue , CIA still doing a ton of fuck shit there , it's not the 60s anymore the Cold War is over
The shenanigans aren't needed anymore

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Ah yes, the grievous crime of *checks notes* giving oppressed people a censorship-free platform to communicate on.

 

[BringBackSonics]

yes I am being selective about a reality that is gleefuly ignored in favor of idealistic fantasy when anyone here pretends they care about the Cuban people and suggests that its greatest threat is its own government from behind a keyboard.

Cuba will be better when the US is out of its hair, regardless of its own government, but that will never be the case while sentiments like this are doing the work of the US for it

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You realize that you are talking to people that have lived there, or still have family there right? Not everyone on ERA is white or american.

 

[Dekuman]

It's amazing how much people will cape for autocrats and human rights abusers as long as they can play the US card

 

[MetagrossMaster]

But the Cuban government is a danger to its own people. They're violating Human Rights, how can you not see that?

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Currently the largest danger to the Cuban people comes from the United States. That is simply a fact. It is true that the Cuban government does violate human rights by arbitrary detaining people. However, this is not comparable to what the United States has inflicted onto Cuba. Look into some of these crimes and tell me who is the real danger here?

Murder of Teacher Conrado Benítez: First Victim of Terrorism – Escambray

en.escambray.cu

This US backed counter revolutionary group murdered an 18 year-old teacher. Why? Because allowing people to read was considered too dangerous. And this is just the start of it. I am sure you know about Operation Mongoose as well, right?

The U.S. government engaged in an extensive and ongoing series of terrorist attacks against Cuba. These activities were collectively known as the "Cuban Project" or Operation Mongoose.The attacks formed a CIA-coordinated program of terrorist bombings, political and military sabotage, and psychological operations, as well as assassination attempts on key political leaders. The Joint Chiefs of Staff also proposed attacks on mainland U.S. targets, hijackings and assaults on Cuban refugee boats to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government, these proposals were known collectively as Operation Northwoods.

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I am sure you also probably know about the Cubana de Aviación Flight 455 bombing which killed 73 people, as well as the 1997 Cuba hotel bombings. And of course the deadly sanctions which prevent people from getting what they need. I could go on and on, but you get the point. On this forum, people frequently talk about the lesser evil. In this case, we need to ask ourselves, who is the lesser evil in this situation? Who the greater danger to the Cuban people? The Cuban government, or the American one?

 

[SailorEdwards]

yes I am being selective about a reality that is gleefuly ignored in favor of idealistic fantasy when anyone here pretends they care about the Cuban people and suggests that its greatest threat is its own government from behind a keyboard.

Cuba will be better when the US is out of its hair, regardless of its own government, but that will never be the case while sentiments like this are doing the work of the US for it

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Yeah definitely will get better as in nothing will change. The top will get more richer while the people starve.

 

[Prolepro]

And here comes the moralizing from the comfort of your home computer. This is a thread about Cuba, and in almost every thread about Cuba a certain group of people always feel the need to rush in and attack the US government. Sure the US government deserves criticism, go make a thread.

In the end all that does in threads about Cuba time and time again is basically "fuck the people of Cuba". I want to talk about how evil america is fuck the people of Cuba.Cuba stood up to the US empire, praise them, but fuck the people of Cuba. Cuban people risk their lives and throw themselves into the sea hoping to reach freedom in America, but they shouldn't do that, fuck America and fuck them.

The Cuban people have finally had enough and are opposition their oppressors and that should be applauded and that's what this should be about. But it's never about the Cuban people, it's always a way for people to share their political viewpoints and who cares about them.

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But you speak for the Cuban people now?

Reality is what our families have had to endure in exile, under oppression. None of your gesturing matters, whoever you are.

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Why were they exiled?

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Bro this guy used the big words to tell Cubans and Cuban Americans they're online warriors.

This guy who has +7000 posts talking about video games.

ahahahaha

 

[GYODX]

Protests like these are really unprecedented in Cuba. Hoping for the best and for peace to prevail.

 

[Prolepro]

Yeah definitely will get better as in nothing will change. The top will get more richer while the people starve.

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Id rather see the reality of Cuban self-determination play out than hide in your hypothetical

 

[BringBackSonics]

Currently the largest danger to the Cuban people comes from the United States. That is simply a fact. It is true that the Cuban government does violate human rights by arbitrary detaining people. However, this is not comparable to what the United States has inflicted onto Cuba. Look into some of these crimes and tell me who is the real danger here?

Murder of Teacher Conrado Benítez: First Victim of Terrorism – Escambray

en.escambray.cu

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This was 60 years ago, not sure how that would fit in the 'currently' the largest danger to the cuban people comes from the united states.

 

[Rover]

Why were they exiled?

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Tell us why, you seem to know more about it

 

[Miamiwesker]

But you speak for the Cuban people now?

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Not all but family and friends who are Cuban. Do you speak for the Cuban people? I can see with my own eyes what is happening with the protests. I can hear with my ears what they are saying.

 

[Deleted member 19813]

yes I am being selective about a reality that is gleefuly ignored in favor of idealistic fantasy when anyone here pretends they care about the Cuban people and suggests that its greatest threat is its own government from behind a keyboard.

Cuba will be better when the US is out of its hair, regardless of its own government, but that will never be the case while sentiments like this are doing the work of the US for it

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Dude, this is outrageous. This is not about your feelings on the US. This is about Cubans and their struggle.

 

[NadaSpecialist]

Ah yes, the grievous crime of *checks notes* giving oppressed people a censorship-free platform to communicate on.

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Come on man:

USAid's team of contractors and subcontractors built a companion website to its text service so Cubans could subscribe, give feedback and send their own text messages for free. They talked about how to make the website look like a real business. "Mock ad banners will give it the appearance of a commercial enterprise," a proposal suggested.

In multiple documents, USAid staff pointed out that text messaging had mobilized smart mobs and political uprisings in Moldova and the Philippines, among others. In Iran, the USAid noted social media's role following the disputed election of then President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in June 2009 — and saw it as an important foreign policy tool.

USAid documents say their strategic objective in Cuba was to "push it out of a stalemate through tactical and temporary initiatives, and get the transition process going again towards democratic change." Democratic change in authoritarian Cuba meant breaking the Castros' grip on power.

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[Mulligan]

Whew. This post sure is something.

This is a thread about Cuba, and people from Cuba are the one's you're yelling at. If you want to yell about US intervention historically, create a new thread.

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The whole point of these protests is that material needs aren't being met. One of the main reasons why these material needs haven't been met is because of the 60 year long embargo the US placed on Cuba for extremely petty reasons.

 

[Prolepro]

Bro this guy used the big words to tell Cubans and Cuban Americans they're online warriors.

This guy who has +7000 posts talking about video games.

ahahahaha

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you sound intimidated, very strange reaction esp for not directly quoting

Tell us why, you seem to know more about it

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no idea, but the entire point im making is that no one under this thumb of empire has a standing in suggesting what is best for Cuba other than the Cuban people

but im gonna make this easy for you, this protest will not topple the Cuban government. you can suggest why, but it will be scant more than propaganda in the interest of US hegemony

Not all but family and friends who are Cuban. Do you speak for the Cuban people? I can see with my own eyes what is happening with the protests. I can hear with my ears what they are saying.

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I see a couple hundred people waving US flags and their exile counterparts in MAGA hats, you talking about those Cuban people?

Dude, this is outrageous. This is not about your feelings on the US. This is about Cubans and their struggle.

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The Cubans struggle because of the US.

 

[Baron Eyepatch]

Currently the largest danger to the Cuban people comes from the United States. That is simply a fact. It is true that the Cuban government does violate human rights by arbitrary detaining people. However, this is not comparable to what the United States has inflicted onto Cuba. Look into some of these crimes and tell me who is the real danger here?

Murder of Teacher Conrado Benítez: First Victim of Terrorism – Escambray

en.escambray.cu

This US backed counter revolutionary group murdered an 18 year-old teacher. Why? Because allowing people to read was considered too dangerous. And this is just the start of it. I am sure you know about Operation Mongoose as well, right?

I am sure you also probably know about the Cubana de Aviación Flight 455 bombing which killed 73 people, as well as the 1997 Cuba hotel bombings. And of course the deadly sanctions which prevent people from getting what they need. I could go on and on, but you get the point. On this forum, people frequently talk about the lesser evil. In this case, we need to ask ourselves, who is the lesser evil in this situation? Who the greater danger to the Cuban people? The Cuban government, or the American one?

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Next time Cubans take to the streets to protest the sanctions, embargo, and various terrorists attacks of the U.S. against the island, you can make the thread. I'll be happy to see it. There aren't a lot of threads about Cuba here.

 

[SailorEdwards]

Id rather see the reality of Cuban self-determination play out than hide in your hypothetical

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I was born in Cuba and came to Canada when I was 11. I watched my mother struggle all by herself working in the medical field and getting paid what was the equivalent to $7 USD per month. When I was born my mother and father had to live on stale bread and water mixed with sugar for their meals. My father got fired from his job when the big recession hit because he wouldn't abandon my mother and his still born child to go to a sugar cane camp because the Party needed him. I know of relatives that were beaten by the police and sent to camps for being gay. I saw people getting arrested for shouting their frustrations while Castro and his cronies got to enjoy the nice life.

People are tired of the political system and while I agree that the embargo needs to go so do all the dinosaurs clinging into power.

 

[Rover]

you sound intimidated, very strange reaction esp for not directly quoting

no idea, but the entire point im making is that no one under this thumb of empire has a standing in suggesting what is best for Cuba other than the Cuban people

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You're talking to Cuban people in here. Who are you, again?

 

[Prolepro]

You're talking to Cuban people in here. Who are you, again?

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You are not a stand in for Cuban people.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

You are not a stand in for Cuban people.

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my mother and my grandfather risked their lives to escape the oppression from the Castro regime by coming in a makeshift raft from Cuba to the US during the mariel boatlift.

bro get off of it.

 

[Deleted member 19813]

The Cubans struggle because of the US.

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It's a fucking communist country. Fidel fucking Castro. Why have Cuban immigrants been floating in whatever raft they can to escape fucking communism?

 

[Rogue74]

your identity is not a stand in for reality, that's not what politics is

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Don't dodge the question. Whatever your opinion of what the reality is besides the point. I asked who do you think you are to tell Cuban Americans in this thread that they are pretending to care.

 

[sacrament]

Come on man:

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I'm for dropping the embargo, but I also for tossing this regime. Isn't it preferable to encourage it's dismantling from within than how things are going now?

The whole point of these protests is that material needs aren't being met. One of the main reasons why these material needs haven't been met is because of the 60 year long embargo the US placed on Cuba for extremely petty reasons.

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As I have said, drop the embargo. But let's also drop this government. (And placing nukes 90 miles from the US shores, and nearly triggering a global holocaust isn't entirely petty)

 

[Sharpeye]

this site is a bootlicking hell and i choose violence

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Hey man, what made you choose violence after talking to Cubans in this thread? Come on tell us how you really feel and don't coward out like you've been doingso far.

 

[Shodan14]

Come on man:

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I'll repeat myself: enabling people who want democratic change to communicate is bad?

 

[Prolepro]

I was born in Cuba and came to Canada when I was 11. I watched my mother struggle all by herself working in the medical field and getting paid what was the equivalent to $7 USD per month. When I was born my mother and father had to live on stale bread and water mixed with sugar for their meals. My father got fired from his job when the big recession hit because he wouldn't abandon my mother and his still born child to go to a sugar cane camp because the Party needed him. I know of relatives that were beaten by the police and sent to camps for being gay. I saw people getting arrested for shouting their frustrations while Castro and his cronies got to enjoy the nice life.

People are tired of the political system and while I agree that the embargo needs to go so do all the dinosaurs clinging into power.

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As to the economics of your experience, why did those things happen? There is no answer that does not have the US lurking in its waters. And as I am at the wrong end of tear gas against the police in my city in the defense of queer liberation, I may have been also in Cuba, and I sympathize with you. My group has had to deal with anti trans right wingers protesting in our city for a couple weekends in a row now, and you can guess where the cops are... My comrade had to bandage someone's stab wound.

But simply acknowledging things are bad in the context of Cuba's history is not the key to unlocking Cuba's liberation. It is a constant victim of empire, and has been for centuries at this point. How its institutions and people have cracked under that pressure, though it remains standing, is ammo only for letting Cuba out from under that weight, not to press down harder from above

 

[Prolepro]

Hey man, what made you choose violence after talking to Cubans in this thread? Come on tell us how you really feel and don't coward out like you've been doingso far.

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ive made very myself clear lmao, stay in my history

 

[NadaSpecialist]

I'm for dropping the embargo, but I also for tossing this regime. Isn't it preferable to encourage it's dismantling from within than how things are going now?

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For sure, but from within to me does not mean with the help of USAID. The extent of US involvement did not stop simply at creating the platform...

 

[Grouch Douglass]

your identity is not a stand in for reality, that's not what politics is

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Your political ideology is more important than the actual lives of people suffering and who want to protest for change? Bet you live a life of privilege and have zero skin in the game.

 

[Prolepro]

Don't dodge the question. Whatever your opinion of what the reality is besides the point. I asked who do you think you are to tell Cuban Americans in this thread that they are pretending to care.

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"Cuban Americans"

which Cubans are we talking about again?

 

[Baron Eyepatch]

The whole point of these protests is that material needs aren't being met. One of the main reasons why these material needs haven't been met is because of the 60 year long embargo the US placed on Cuba for extremely petty reasons.

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The protestors are chanting "freedom" and "fuck the police." The protests are not exclusively about material needs, and you're right that ONE of the reasons those needs are not met is because of the U.S. Please don't try to appropriate these protests for your own purposes. Listen to the people.

 

[Rogue74]

"Cuban Americans"

which Cubans are we talking about again?

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To be perfectly honest, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

 

[Prolepro]

To be perfectly honest, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

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No shit bud.

 

[EnlightenedMint]

Ideology is a hell of a drug.

 

[Grouch Douglass]

You're talking to Cuban people in here. Who are you, again?

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Some edgy white kid probably.

To be perfectly honest, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

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He is trying to call exiled Cubans traitors or some shit. Textbook Tankie material.

 

[sacrament]

For sure, but from within to me does not mean with the help of USAID. The extent of US involvement did not stop simply at creating the platform...

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I get it, and I think that's ok too. I think it's in our interest to encourage and support them getting through to a more human centric government.

You could contend "do nothing" is the right answer. Perhaps it is, but it sounds like there is active suffering happening now. We can stay out of internal affairs but we also know others arent staying out of the US's either - and I'd hope it resulted in a more natural regime change than embargoes + military intervention.

 

[Prolepro]

Your political ideology is more important than the actual lives of people suffering and who want to protest for change? Bet you live a life of privilege and have zero skin in the game.

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The actual lives of people suffering are exactly what are ignored when chest pounding here by idealists suggest they know best because of this one protest they suddenly see as the "true" inheritor of the Cuban people's will.

Some edgy white kid probably.



He is trying to call exiled Cubans traitors or some shit. Textbook Tankie material.

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No, just that they are not nor represent the whole of Cuban people, esp those living in Cuba, and especially the majority who support their government. Nice try though.

Ideology is a hell of a drug.

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I agree lmao

 

[Rogue74]

Some edgy white kid probably.



He is trying to call exiled Cubans traitors or some shit. Textbook Tankie material.

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I said multiple times that not only am I a Cuban immigrant, but I had family that stayed behind including my father and little sister who I didn't see for 20 years. After they came over in 2005 my grandmother (now deceased), aunt, and cousin remained on the island. But yeah, I don't really care about the Cubans in Cuba because I'm in the U.S. Got it.

Whatever. I'm done with this back and forth with him.

 

[JABEE]

America should drop the embargo and keep their hands and mercenaries out of Cuba.

USA's interference is only done to enrich multinational corporations at the expense of the people. The blockades themselves are acts of war against the sovereignty of Cuba and the Cuban people.

The UN roundly asks for the US to lift these embargoes which were placed on Cuba as a preface to assassination and war against a country that fucked over the oil rights of some of the most evil people on Earth who ran plantations.

Cuban people should protest but the US's only role in this is lifting the blockade and normalizing relations. The US's blockade is killing people and enabling horrible conditions. They have incredible power and choose to harm the Cuban people to keep the rest of Central and South America in line.

 

[Rodderick]

Oh, we've reached the "only pedophilic slave owners that became rich on the back of a US-aligned government were adversely affected by the Revolución" part of the discourse.

The US embargo is absolutely pointless and has a lot more to do with internal America politics than anything else at this point, so it's both a moral and practical imperative that it ends. The US embargo is also not in any way the main driving force behind Cuba's underdevelopment and the human rights abuses committed by a regime that gladly waves the embargo around as justification for all of its failed policies.

The US has committed horrific acts all over the globe and its population routinely rises up against the government, often facing violent police repression, and no one in this thread is arguing Americans hold an ethical upper hand over the rest of the globe, particularly in regards to foreign policy. The difference here is basically no one will cape for cops or try to concern troll about foreign influence in threads regarding protests over police brutality/low wages/whatever other social issue in the US. But talk about the social dysfunction in leftist countries and it's a wave of whataboutisms and ridiculous justifications. It's the DEFINITION of identity politics and I have no clue why we can have people basically "no true Scotsman"ing Cuban members repeatedly without repercussions in this community.

 

[Prolepro]

I said multiple times that not only am I a Cuban immigrant, but I had family that stayed behind including my father and little sister who I didn't see for 20 years. After they came over in 2005 my grandmother (now deceased), aunt, and cousin remained on the island. But yeah, I don't really care about the Cubans in Cuba because I'm in the U.S. Got it.

Whatever. I'm done with this back and forth with him.

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Im sure you care for your family, friend. But neither they nor you speak for Cuba, especially when you make such outrageous claims about what Cuba "would do" if it "had power" as a rallying cry for political revolution in a place you dont live.

 

[GYODX]

keep that same energy in a place you actually have a standing in

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That poster is Cuban. Stop your lecturing, gringo.

 

[supremeplatypus]

Vietnam is a worse regime than Cuba?

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I'm saying both are pretty much equivalent in terms of being highly authoritarian states.

 

[Prolepro]

That poster is Cuban. Stop your lecturing, gringo.

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That's not an argument.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

That's not an argument.

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Literally every Cuban in this thread is disagreeing with you

 

[Mulligan]

As I have said, drop the embargo. But let's also drop this government. (And placing nukes 90 miles from the US shores, and nearly triggering a global holocaust isn't entirely petty)

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In regards to the nukes, as a sovereign country, Cuba is entitled to do whatever it wants; especially inside its borders. On top of that, having nukes inside the country likely prevented more conspicuous efforts at killing Castro and supporting contras within Cuba prior to 1962.

The government itself is relatively fine. It has elements of cronyism like every other modern government, and like most countries who are socially conservative, it's well behind on LGBTQ/abortion rights, but it is in a transitional phase in that regard right now.