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Miami Herald: ‘We are not afraid!’ Cubans take to the streets to demand freedom, food, vaccines

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Baron Eyepatch

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Feb 14, 2018
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Haze said:
See above. As of present there is not an organized repression of the protests.
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People on the ground are saying that the police come in to break things up after getting the internet shut off in the area so they aren't recorded on Facebook Live. Sometimes there is misinformation on the ground so it's tough to be completely sure, but the Cuban government doesn't deserve a ton of benefit of the doubt.

For sure, there has been organized repression of protests for decades in Cuba, including in the last year, which is why something of this scale hasn't happened in modern times. Thousands of people are suddenly out in the streets; they didn't all decide they don't like the regime over night. They are saying that what has changed is that they aren't afraid to protest anymore. You could listen to them.

It's also complicated and tough to make decisive observations. Where one person says "those people are throwing rocks at that police car," others say "that police car is speeding through a street crowded with protestors because it's trying to hit them."
 
NadaSpecialist

NadaSpecialist

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Aug 8, 2019
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There's a section of the video below where the police are chasing a boy on the Havana Malecon.



This photo is from an anti-government website.

militarizado-Isla-protestas-multipliquen-Twitter_CYMIMA20210711_0008_13.jpg
 
KillLaCam

KillLaCam

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Time to hear American leaders act like they care about Cuban people while keeping up the embargo that everyone else besides Israel opposes
 
Fridaynightcatlady

Fridaynightcatlady

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Haze said:
Yeah it's not good. My point is that thus far, this protest isn't really any different than any I've participated in here. It could change, but anecdotally, the ones from last year alone here in the US appear to be worse where I and others were corralled, tear gassed, beaten, and arrested.
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This is from the Corte Interamericana de Derechos Humanos:

https://twitter.com/CIDH/status/1414390304640323586

Still doubting all Human Rights violations in Cuba?
 
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Baron Eyepatch

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Feb 14, 2018
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Re: police response, here's an AP article alluded to earlier by another poster.

First, mentions U.S. sanctions, so there's that:
Cuba is going through its worst economic crisis in decades, along with a resurgence of coronavirus cases, as it suffers the consequences of U.S. sanctions imposed by the Trump administration.
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Now regarding the cops:
The demonstration grew to a few thousand in the vicinity of Galeano Avenue and the marchers pressed on despite a few charges by police officers and tear gas barrages. People standing on many balconies along the central artery in the Centro Habana neighborhood applauded the protesters passing by. Others joined in the march.

Although many people tried to take out their cellphones and broadcast the protest live, Cuban authorities shut down internet service throughout the afternoon.

About 2 1/2 hours into the march, some protesters pulled up cobblestones and threw them at police, at which point officers began arresting people and the marchers dispersed.

AP journalists counted at least 20 people who were taken away in police cars or by individuals in civilian clothes.

"The people came out to express themselves freely, and they are repressing and beating them," Rev. Jorge Luis Gil, a Roman Catholic priest, said while standing at a street corner in Centro Habana.

About 300 people close to the government then arrived with a large Cuban flag shouting slogans in favor of the late President Fidel Castro and the Cuban revolution. Some people from the group assaulted an AP cameraman, disabling his camera, while an AP photographer was inured by the police.
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TheodoreXGolbez

TheodoreXGolbez

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Aug 7, 2020
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I don't know what to do in this situation . The only solution is the American one or let the country collapsed and hope for a democracy .
 
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Baron Eyepatch

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Feb 14, 2018
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TheodoreXGolbez said:
I don't know what to do in this situation . The only solution is the American one or let the country collapsed and hope for a democracy .
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Sadly I think a lack of obvious solution causes a lot of people to just check out. People on the outside can advocate for or against various types of foreign intervention, or they can try to help directly (my partner managed to ship some useful medical supplies to her family this year). My best recommendation is honestly just to listen to Cubans about what they think of it all, even if you ultimately disagree with them about the best course of action.

Haze said:
I'm saying there's a pretty big difference in something like this and the Columbian protests.
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We are all thankful for that and it's why we're worried about Diaz-Canal saying that the protests are agitators trying to force him to use the military against his own people:
In an impromptu televised address later in the afternoon, Díaz-Canel blamed the protests on U.S. efforts to tighten the embargo, with the alleged intention to "provoke a social uprising" that would justify a military intervention.
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He is pre-emptively justifying a crackdown.

Haze said:
Yeah it's not good. My point is that thus far, this protest isn't really any different than any I've participated in here. It could change, but anecdotally, the ones from last year alone here in the US appear to be worse where I and others were corralled, tear gassed, beaten, and arrested.
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If it's only ever as bad as the protests at which you were tear gassed, beaten, and arrested, then it will be really bad. The AP has already reported all three of those things happening to protestors, and we hope it doesn't get worse. Let's remember that not beating protestors into submission is actually the bare minimum we should expect from governments faced with largely peaceful protests.
 
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mentok15

mentok15

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Dec 20, 2017
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Is there any decent info on what it's actually like in Cuba? Something somewhat unbiased in that it's not "lol commies" or "it's all CIA propaganda".
 
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Baron Eyepatch

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Feb 14, 2018
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mentok15 said:
Is there any decent info on what it's actually like in Cuba? Something somewhat unbiased in that it's not "lol commies" or "it's all CIA propaganda".
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English-language? Beats me, let me know if you have any luck. My family uses some Spanish-language sources, but I can't personally vouch for them being unbiased.
 
MetagrossMaster

MetagrossMaster

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Nov 13, 2020
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The tactics of the United States in regards to Cuba have not changed since the 60s. It is still the same old trash.

If the above are accepted or cannot be successfully countered, it follows that every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba. If such a policy is adopted, it should be the result of a positive decision which would call forth a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government.
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Historical Documents - Office of the Historian

history.state.gov 3.0 shell
history.state.gov history.state.gov

The goal is simple. By depriving the Cuban people as much as possible and exerting maximum pressure, the idea is that the Cuban people will overthrow the government. They are willing letting the country starve and die in order to push through regime change. We must condemn in the strongest terms the actions of the United States which are causing untold devastation to the people of Cuba. These people are not pawns in your political chess game! We must end these sanctions, which the rest of the world rightly regards as criminal.
 
Zandareth

Zandareth

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Fridaynightcatlady said:
I would recommend everyone to read HRW's report on Cuba and why it's not currently a democracy: https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/cuba

The embargo is certainly a big problem in Cuba, but so is a regime that is so adamant about staying in power.
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As a Venezuelan, I applaud your initiative trying to inform people about the Cuban government. Cuba is not a democracy, neither is Venezuela nor Nicaragua, these governments claim to be in favor of the people, but the only thing they really care about is staying in power as long as possible.

Btw, I'm also not in favor of general economic sanctions against a country, they almost never work in their aim to topple an autocratic government.
 
Fridaynightcatlady

Fridaynightcatlady

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Zandareth said:
As a Venezuelan, I applaud your initiative trying to inform people about the Cuban government. Cuba is not a democracy, neither is Venezuela nor Nicaragua, these governments claim to be in favor of the people, but the only thing they really care about is staying in power as long as possible.

Btw, I'm also not in favor of general economic sanctions against a country, they almost never work in their aim to topple an autocratic government.
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I'm Chilean and have worked hand in hand with Venezuelan refugees and Cuban immigrants in my country. We've also dealt with Human Rights violations in Chile during 2019.

I get extremely annoyed at gringos playing know it all at about something completely alien to them.
 
kittenbreath

kittenbreath

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Oct 25, 2017
660
mbpm said:
If the regime is so tyrannous, why are these movements a minority instead of a majority?
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This is the absolute worst argument I've ever seen anyone make on this website. The rightness or wrongness of a cause isn't determined by whether it's popular or not.

Otherwise you end up in a place where all manner of evils and injustices are legitimized by tradition and/or common practice.
 
Miamiwesker

Miamiwesker

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Oct 25, 2017
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What a beautiful thing. Been waiting my entire life to see the Cuban people finally rise up and overthrow that piece of shit dictatorship. They deserve freedom, that island can be so much more. It's great to see the spark start, of course the government will do everything go shut it down. Let's see if this leads to any big change, it's a long time coming.
 
NadaSpecialist

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Fridaynightcatlady said:
I'm Chilean and have worked hand in hand with Venezuelan refugees and Cuban immigrants in my country. We've also dealt with Human Rights violations in Chile during 2019.

I get extremely annoyed at gringos playing know it all at about something completely alien to them.
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I stand in solidarity with the Chilean people.

I hope the Cuban government is condemned along with the Chilean, Brazilian, Colombian, Nicaraguan, Argentinian, Honduran, Salvadoran, American, Mexican, Ecuadorian, Bolivian, Guatemalan and Venezuelan governments for their human rights abuses.
 
Fridaynightcatlady

Fridaynightcatlady

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NadaSpecialist said:
I stand in solidarity with the Chilean people.

I hope the Cuban government is condemned along with the Chilean, Brazilian, Colombian, Nicaraguan, Argentinian, Honduran, Salvadoran, American, Mexican, Ecuadorian, Bolivian, Guatemalan and Venezuelan governments for their human rights abuses.
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Absolutely. In fact, former Chilean President and current High Comissioner for Human Rights at the UN (along with other international HR organizations) have condemned it and I hope our current president faces trials for what he did ;).
 
JahIthBer

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Biden isn't going to lift the embargo folks & maybe he shouldn't anyway, appeasing authoritarian governments doesn't work, it sucks the Cuban people have to suffer i will admit.
 
sphagnum

sphagnum

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JahIthBer said:
Biden isn't going to lift the embargo folks & maybe he shouldn't anyway, appeasing authoritarian governments doesn't work, it sucks the Cuban people have to suffer i will admit.
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The embargo has achieved nothing other than to give the Cuban government a legitimate way to show its citizens that the US is their enemy.
 
D.Dragoon

D.Dragoon

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JahIthBer said:
Biden isn't going to lift the embargo folks & maybe he shouldn't anyway, appeasing authoritarian governments doesn't work, it sucks the Cuban people have to suffer i will admit.
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What a garbage take, the United States doesn't care whether another government is authoritarian or not. Does the foreign government align with United States hegemonic interests is main thing that matters.
 
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NYT Article
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    Baron Eyepatch

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    NYT Article about the protests

    Hundreds of people marched through San Antonio de los Baños, southwest of Havana, with videos streaming live on Facebook for nearly an hour before they suddenly disappeared. As the afternoon wore on, other videos appeared from demonstrations elsewhere, including Palma Soriano, in the country's southeast. Hundreds of people also gathered in Havana, where a heavy police presence preceded their arrival.

    "The people are dying of hunger!" one woman shouted during a protest filmed in the province of Artemisa, in the island's west. "Our children are dying of hunger!"

    One clip circulating on Twitter showed protesters overturning a police car in Cardenas, 90 miles east of Havana. Another video showed people looting from one of the much-detested government-run stores, which sell wildly overpriced items in currencies most Cubans do not possess.

    In a country known for repressive crackdowns on dissent, the rallies were widely viewed as astonishing. Activists and analysts called it the first time that so many people had openly protested against the Communist government since the so-called Maleconazo uprising, which exploded in the summer of 1994 into a huge wave of Cubans leaving the country by sea.
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    The protests were set off by a dire economic crisis in Cuba, where the coronavirus pandemic has cut off crucial tourism dollars. People now spend hours in line each day to buy basic food items. Many have been unable to work because restaurants and other businesses have remained on lockdown for months.
    [...]
    The Cuban government attributes its longstanding economic problems to the American trade embargo, which cuts off its access to financing and imports. But the pandemic has worsened conditions, and in Matanzas, east of Havana, some patients and their families have resorted to posting videos on YouTube of furious people screaming about the lack of medicine and doctors.

    The Cuban Ministry of Health website says the nation of 11 million now has about 32,000 active cases of Covid-19. It reported 6,923 daily cases and 47 deaths on Sunday, breaking its prior record, set just Friday.
    [...]
    "Cubans know perfectly well that the government of the United States is principally responsible for Cuba's current situation," the foreign ministry said in a Twitter post. "Cuba and its streets belong to the revolutionaries."
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    Within hours of the extraordinary events, the president broke into national television programming to urge government supporters to hit the streets and confront the protesters. [...] Mr. Díaz-Canel said in televised remarks on Sunday that the protests were a form of "systemic provocation" by dissidents doing the bidding of the United States. He said Washington in recent months had sought to destabilize and weaken the island's economy as part of a policy designed to "provoke a massive social implosion." [...] He added that people loyal to the revolution were willing to give their lives to defend the government. "Over our dead bodies," he said. "We are prepared to do anything."
    [...]
    "They should be calling for peace and dialogue, not blood," Andy Ruiz, a protester in Havana, said in an interview. "What I saw today was people seeing freedom for the first time."

    Adonis Milán, a theater director in Havana, said the extreme conditions became too much to bear.

    "This is no longer a question of freedom of expression; it's a question of hunger," Mr. Milán said. "People are hitting the street. They are asking for an end to this government, to one-party rule, to repression and the misery we have lived through for 60 years."

    A few hours later, he called back, sobbing, saying that the internet had been cut off, that anti-riot squads were in the streets and that a number of artists had been arrested after they demanded airtime on national television.

    "I managed to escape," he said.
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    I just want to thank everyone who has read and participated in the thread. I was expecting very little engagement and I'm encouraged to see people paying attention and sharing their thoughts.
     
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    • Senator Toadstool

    Senator Toadstool

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    Mulligan said:
    You know how they can get all of that stuff? If the US ends the embargo.
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    Yup.

    And I don't care about americans views on the embargo. It's the humane thing to do. The american public supported the war crime that was Iraq. We've been feed lie after lie about cuban and made their lives miserable. Our cuban police is cruel and inhumane.

    That being said Cubans have every right to protest their government. But the US needs to stay out and let cubans decide what they want.
     
    krazen

    krazen

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    sphagnum said:
    The embargo has achieved nothing other than to give the Cuban government a legitimate way to show its citizens that the US is their enemy.
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    Yup. Obviously it could do much better without it, but looking at what's happening at other Carrib islands still connected to colonialism by being actively involved with entities like the IMF Cuba is doing great.

    Ultimately not a fan of the way things like this are reported because of the slant here in the OP article ("If they would only let the US in"). Fucked up thing is you can argue Cuba isn't thriving, but in a compare/contrast to other states filled with diaspora closer to the West…it's still doing better. Shit look at Haiti which has had US intervention for over a century.
     
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    Baron Eyepatch

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    Senator Toadstool said:
    Yup.

    And I don't care about americans views on the embargo. It's the humane thing to do. The american public supported the war crime that was Iraq. We've been feed lie after lie about cuban and made their lives miserable. Our cuban police is cruel and inhumane.

    That being said Cubans have every right to protest their government. But the US needs to stay out and let cubans decide what they want.
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    Cubans actually don't have a right to protest their government. The Cubans who have come to America are the ones with a right to protest their now former government, and they are pretty vocal about what they want. This is not an endorsement of their position. But letting Cuban Americans have a say in the matter is pretty much the only thing we can do to grant Cubans some self-determination.

    krazen said:
    Yup. Obviously it could do much better without it, but looking at what's happening at other Carrib islands still connected to colonialism by being actively involved with entities like the IMF Cuba is doing great.

    Ultimately not a fan of the way things like this are reported because of the slant here in the OP article ("If they would only let the US in"). Fucked up thing is you can argue Cuba isn't thriving, but in a compare/contrast to other states filled with diaspora closer to the West…it's still doing better. Shit look at Haiti which has had US intervention for over a century.
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    This is what Cubans are saying, including the ones in Cuba. I'm not putting words in their mouths. They know U.S. policies are hurting them. They also know that their government can change certain things to improve conditions regardless of the embargo, but chooses not to. That's what they're protesting. See the NYT article that reported Cubans looting a food store that only accepts non-Cuban currencies.
     
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    FreshYoungDoggo

    FreshYoungDoggo

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    Love when American's moralize, especially when just weeks ago they voted against ending the embargo and sanctions on Cuba. Just about every other nation voted to end it.
     
    JahIthBer

    JahIthBer

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    sphagnum said:
    The embargo has achieved nothing other than to give the Cuban government a legitimate way to show its citizens that the US is their enemy.
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    The Cuban government pledged their loyalty to the USSR on live TV, i mean, they literally said USA is their enemy to the world, the Cuban government does not get to play the victim just because they backed the wrong horse, obviously that was a long time ago so the embargo seems very antiquated & it really sucks people have to suffer for it, but the sad fact of the matter is that Cuba is no threat to the US government, so don't shoot the messenger when i say Biden isn't your cool progressive friend & won't end the embargo as he has zero reason to.
     
    sphagnum

    sphagnum

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    JahIthBer said:
    The Cuban government pledged their loyalty to the USSR on live TV, i mean, they literally said USA is their enemy to the world, The Cuban government does not get to play the victim just because they backed the wrong horse, obviously that was a long time ago so the embargo seems very antiquated & it really sucks people have to suffer for it, but the sad fact of the matter is that Cuba is no threat to the US government, so don't shoot the messenger when i say Biden isn't your cool progressive friend & won't end the embargo as he has zero reason to.
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    What?
     
    NadaSpecialist

    NadaSpecialist

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    Baron Eyepatch said:
    This is what Cubans are saying, including the ones in Cuba. I'm not putting words in their mouths. They know U.S. policies are hurting them. They also know that their government can change certain things to improve conditions regardless of the embargo, but chooses not to. That's what they're protesting. See the NYT article that reported Cubans looting a food store that only accepts currency Cubans aren't allowed to have.
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    There's a difference between currencies Cubans aren't allowed to have and what the article says: "Another video showed people looting from one of the much-detested government-run stores, which sell wildly overpriced items in currencies most Cubans do not possess." These are the MLC stores that sell goods in hard currencies like the Dollar, Euro, Yen, etc. The government has a liquidity crisis, which in turn affects their ability to import goods, so those stores were a poor attempt at trying to capture the hard currencies that the people have from remittances that their families send.

    Again, many people (the formerly fledgling, now dying private sector) are protesting for the right to import goods without a state-sector intermediary. That is one of the freedoms they are talking about. The government's side of the story is that doing so wouldn't solve the liquidity crisis. Goods would be bought by the private sector abroad in hard currencies, and then sold and taxed in Cuban Pesos. The government is looking for hard currencies for international transactions as the Cuban Peso is essentially worthless for international transactions.
     
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    Mekanos

    Mekanos

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    Starving citizens of another country through sanctions is just good business. Once their bones are brittle and fragile they will be more than willing to overthrow the government.
     
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    Baron Eyepatch

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    NadaSpecialist said:
    There's a difference between currencies Cubans aren't allowed to have and what the article says: "Another video showed people looting from one of the much-detested government-run stores, which sell wildly overpriced items in currencies most Cubans do not possess." These are the MLC stores that sell goods in hard currencies like the Dollar, Euro, Yen, etc. The government has a liquidity crisis, which in turn affects their ability to import goods, so those stores were a poor attempt at trying to capture the hard currencies that the people have from remittances that their families send.
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    There is a reason most Cubans don't possess those currencies. I would argue that the way I phrased it is accurate in spirit, but I edited the post to make it more literally true.
     
    NadaSpecialist

    NadaSpecialist

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    Baron Eyepatch said:
    There is a reason most Cubans don't possess those currencies. I would argue that the way I phrased it is accurate in spirit, but I edited the post to make it more literally true.
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    So are you saying that Cubans should be paid in Dollars and Euros? Most of the working population works in the state sector. How would the government pull that off when the blockade complicates access to at least the dollar? No idea how a Euroization of the economy would work or if the EU would allow it. That'd be an interesting case study compared to the dollarization of the Salvadoran and Ecuadorian economies in the early 2000's.
     
    SpaceCrystal

    SpaceCrystal

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    JahIthBer said:
    The Cuban government pledged their loyalty to the USSR on live TV, i mean, they literally said USA is their enemy to the world, the Cuban government does not get to play the victim just because they backed the wrong horse, obviously that was a long time ago so the embargo seems very antiquated & it really sucks people have to suffer for it, but the sad fact of the matter is that Cuba is no threat to the US government, so don't shoot the messenger when i say Biden isn't your cool progressive friend & won't end the embargo as he has zero reason to.
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    But Biden isn't a progressive. He's a centrist.

    If we had an actual progressive president such as Bernie, they would've had the embargo lifted already.
     
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    Baron Eyepatch

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    NadaSpecialist said:
    So are you saying that Cubans should be paid in Dollars and Euros? Most of the working population works in the state sector. How would the government pull that off when the blockade complicates access to at least the dollar? No idea how a Euroization of the economy would work or if the EU would allow it. That'd be an interesting case study compared to the dollarization of the Salvadoran and Ecuadorian economies in the early 2000's.
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    I'm obviously saying the Cuban government should sell food in Cuban currency, so that Cubans don't have to rely on remittances to buy food. Why would I want Cubans to be paid in foreign currencies? Furthermore the supplies in those stores are often bought up by scalpers who have special access, so that even people who have the proper currency and wait for hours to get into the store can't get much. The government could do something about that too.
     
    samoyed

    samoyed

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    Re: currency

    Cuba stopped the dual currency system earlier this year, supposedly temporarily.

    www.reuters.com

    Cuba suspending cash bank deposits in dollars, citing U.S. sanctions

    Cuba said on Thursday it would temporarily stop accepting cash bank deposits in dollars, blaming tighter U.S. sanctions that are restricting its ability to use greenbacks abroad, although it will still accept transfers.
    www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

    "It is ever more difficult for Cuba to find international banking or financing institutions willing to receive, convert or process U.S. currency in cash," the Cuban Central Bank said in a statement shared by state-run media.
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    It, the Cuban government, is not going to give up monetary sovereignty just so the citizens can more easily buy iPhones, despite the advantages that would produce for their anemic tech sector. Surrendering monetary sovereignty to hostile powers is generally a bad idea, especially for planned economies. It would be the deep collapse of the economy that would make Venezuela look like a walk in the park as most of Cuba depends on priced controlled food and supplies.

    Demand for international consumer goods was creating a black market in USD that was disrupting the ration system state workers depend on, and leading to perverse incentives like doctors abandoning work to cater to tourists who supply the majority of this black market USD. This "encourage a black market in a foreign currency through embargoes" strategy is financial warfare, and when you do financial warfare to people they tend want to fight back.
     
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