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poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,412
the Netherlands
Fact of the matter is that Putin if he wanted to could pour millions of Russian troops into Ukraine, kill hundreds of thousands of people and beyond some token sanctions nothing would happen.
As someone who's pretty ignorant on modern Ukrainian geopolitics, can someone explain to me like I'm five years old why the hell Ukraine doesn't join NATO? It's obvious why Russia doesn't want them too, but at least on the surface it seems like doing so would be a net positive overall, especially since it would mean having the official backing of the major EU powers and the US. Unless there's something I'm completely missing.
Ukraine would have gone on that path after Euromaiden, but Russia invaded because they know NATO is never gonna accept a country which is in an active war with them. Ukraine joining NATO and even the EU is simply impossible as long as Russia continues their occupation, Russia knows that and is such will continue the occupation. That's also why they've been in Moldova for about 3 decades and partitioned Georgia in 2008.
 
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Strikerrr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,156



There's some reports that the Donetsk People's Republic, the Russian-backed faction in Eastern Ukraine, is starting to conscript civilians, starting with a batch of 200.

I don't know if they'll actually do that or if they're providing a cover for 200 more Russian "volunteers" to enter their ranks.

Either way it sounds like things are building up.
 

Irishmantis

Member
Jan 5, 2019
1,801
Unlike the likes of Kim Jim Un

Putin scares the shit out of me because he's smart and has the tools needed

He's going to keep pushing the envelope because he knows he can

if we ever went to WW3 i would bet good money Russia be somewhat responsible for it
...... and to be fair America be a close second

obviously this won't lead to anything like WW3 so I'm not trying to fearmonger I just have big anxiety to stuff like this
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,326
NATO needs to ready some brigades of quick reaction forces. They'll only act if they think there wont be opposition.
 

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
They keep breaching European airspace as well all the time. But considering we need them for gas and vaccines nothing will happen. If only we could cut one of their main income sources by switching to nuclear.
They breach US airspace too and just get told to leave. That's normal probing, nobody opens fire in those situations.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,619
Seattle
It's just humanitarian 'aid' for the poor people of Donetsk

101939476-ukarine_aid_convoy.jpg
 

Kodama4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,936
This feels just like last time

Massive troop movements then sudden unrest/propaganda campaign and then boom Russia moves on Crimea whilst everyone was distracted by Donbass unrest.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Putin needs a distraction before his people lose their shit over his opposition.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,412
the Netherlands
The United States is considering sending warships into the Black Sea in the next few weeks in a show of support for Ukraine amid Russia's increased military presence on Ukraine's eastern border, a US defense official told CNN Thursday.
The US Navy routinely operates in the Black Sea, but a deployment of warships now would send a specific message to Moscow that the US is closely watching, the official said.
Although the US does not see the amassing of Russian forces as posturing for an offensive action, the official told CNN that "if something changes we will be ready to respond." Their current assessment is that the Russians are conducting training and exercises and intelligence has not indicated military orders for further action, the official said, but noted that they are well-aware that could change at any time.

edition.cnn.com

US considering sending warships to Black Sea amid Russia-Ukraine tensions

The United States is considering sending warships into the Black Sea in the next few weeks in a show of support for Ukraine amid Russia's increased military presence on Ukraine's eastern border, a US defense official told CNN Thursday.
 
Nov 23, 2019
7,656
RRT4 ▶︎▶︎▶︎
www.reuters.com

Turkey says U.S. warships to deploy in Black Sea until May 4

The United States has informed Turkey that two of its warships will pass through Turkish straits to be deployed in the Black Sea until May 4, Ankara said on Friday, as Russia has bulked up its military forces on Ukraine's eastern border.
The United States has informed Turkey that two of its warships will pass through Turkish straits to be deployed in the Black Sea until May 4, Ankara said on Friday, as Russia has bulked up its military forces on Ukraine's eastern border.
 

avaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
London
Apparently those in the know think the real reason for the build up is that Crimea is going to run out of water. They do not have proper access to enough clean water and Putin will try to push through to the dam on the Dnipro at Nova Kakhovka to gain access to the river. West needs to pre-empt....means Magnitsky sanctions against Putin's oligarch's who own his wealth.

A broader Novorossiya strategy is in the bin for the moment, Putin knows it would be far too costly, the Ukrainians would wreck his shit with a guerilla war once he breaks through into predominantly non-primary Russian speaking areas.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,412
the Netherlands
According to Ukrainian intelligence the Russian "separatists" have prepared 3 letters directly for Putin. 1 asks for Russian military intervention, the 2nd asks for annexation and the 3rd asks for recognizing their independence
www.pravda.com.ua

“ДНР” хоче попросити у Путіна військової допомоги або приєднання до РФ – розвідка

Керівництво так званої “ДНР” попередньо підготувало три різні варіанти звернення до президента РФ Володимира Путіна, серед яких і прохання надати військову допомогу.
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,423
Scotland
Apparently those in the know think the real reason for the build up is that Crimea is going to run out of water. They do not have proper access to enough clean water and Putin will try to push through to the dam on the Dnipro at Nova Kakhovka to gain access to the river. West needs to pre-empt....means Magnitsky sanctions against Putin's oligarch's who own his wealth.

A broader Novorossiya strategy is in the bin for the moment, Putin knows it would be far too costly, the Ukrainians would wreck his shit with a guerilla war once he breaks through into predominantly non-primary Russian speaking areas.

I remember reading an article last year about the water situation there being dire. I take it that's partially a legacy of Crimea being administratively part of Ukraine for decades?

I guess it explains why they spent so much getting a bridge up quickly. Although that's not going to solve all the infrastructure issues.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,125
When crimera was seized by Russia, crimera got 85% of it's drinking/farming water from mainland Ukraine via a canal. Ukraine, correctly, promptly, closed the canal and cut off water supplies.

I'm also going to guess, charges and been placed all along the canal. So at the event Russia is attempting to seize it, they will scuttle the entire canal.
 

vastag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,248
Apparently those in the know think the real reason for the build up is that Crimea is going to run out of water. They do not have proper access to enough clean water and Putin will try to push through to the dam on the Dnipro at Nova Kakhovka to gain access to the river. West needs to pre-empt....means Magnitsky sanctions against Putin's oligarch's who own his wealth.

Yes, Crimea doesn't have the water resources necessary to sustain itself and Russia is unable to provide them via new infrastructure. Here is a short anlysis of the water situation:

 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,412
the Netherlands
I remember reading an article last year about the water situation there being dire. I take it that's partially a legacy of Crimea being administratively part of Ukraine for decades?

I guess it explains why they spent so much getting a bridge up quickly. Although that's not going to solve all the infrastructure issues.
Yup. Crimea relies on the Dnieper river for its water supply through a canal which was build between 1961 and 1975. When Russia invaded the peninsula Ukraine gave Russia the finger by damming the canal, cutting Crimea off from its water supply. Since then Crimea has been cut off and its water reserves have slowly been depleting. If a Russian invasion happens reopening the canal will 100% be their main objective.
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
If Russia makes a movie its going to be a big one. They will attempt to capture a large chunk of the southern ocean border of Ukraine so they have a land bridge to Crimea and at the same time cripple Ukraine's access to sea ports. I would expect them to try and seize Mariupol, Melitopol, and Kherson.

These were all initial targets in the beginning invasion but Ukraine managed to hold out at Mariupol and stopped the big push west
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,631
Um, shit. So there's a legit chance there could be more conflict?
No one knows what Putin has planned. Could be a distraction from internal pressure, could be a build up for a invasion.

That the west is currently pumping arms into ukraine while doing a extraordinary amount of recon flights tells me they don't know either.
 

Lishi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,284
There was a massive buildup when they invaded Crimea in the first place?

Look like quite a lot of notice to give to the other world leader time to react.
Not saying that it's not a possibility just wondering why.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
There was a massive buildup when they invaded Crimea in the first place?

Look like quite a lot of notice to give to the other world leader time to react.
Not saying that it's not a possibility just wondering why.
Well, Russia already had military bases on Crimea and used relatively little force (mostly spec ops to occupy key positions afaik) to occupy it, so no. It was different for the war in Donbass (Eastern Ukraine) later.
 

finfinfin

The Fallen
Jul 26, 2018
1,375
There was a massive buildup when they invaded Crimea in the first place?

Look like quite a lot of notice to give to the other world leader time to react.
Not saying that it's not a possibility just wondering why.
Even a surprise lightning-swift attack takes a lot of preparation. The faster you want to go, the bigger a hassle it is. Even if they were entirely unopposed and had free supplies stationed throughout the area, the traffic management alone would give planners nightmares. Oh shit, someone took a wrong turn and now three battalions are backed up and and tanks can't get to the bridge they were meant to cross and the nearby alternatives can't be freed up or the AA won't be in place and, and, and
 

Deleted member 26398

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
706
The fact that Ukraine cut the water to the peninsula tells me that Ukraine sees Crimea as part of Russia. It's virtually impossible to reconcile with people after you cut the water on them. It's a very clear signal that you want to kill them all.
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
The fact that Ukraine cut the water to the peninsula tells me that Ukraine sees Crimea as part of Russia. It's virtually impossible to reconcile with people after you cut the water on them. It's a very clear signal that you want to kill them all.

hopefully they realise if they (Russia) want to occupy Crimea, they need to bring basic infrastructure and if not turn their anger towards Russia.
 

Deleted member 26398

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
706
hopefully they realise if they (Russia) want to occupy Crimea, they need to bring basic infrastructure and if not turn their anger towards Russia.
I realize that it was Russia's responsibility to provide the infrastructure but it could be explained by incompetence but what Ukraine did can't be explained by anything other than contempt for the Crimeans.
 

Hrothgar

Member
Nov 6, 2017
804
I realize that it was Russia's responsibility to provide the infrastructure but it could be explained by incompetence but what Ukraine did can't be explained by anything other than contempt for the Crimeans.
Russia was able to build a giant bridge to Crimea in no time, I am sure they could have managed to create an alternative water supply as well.
 

Barbarossa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,278
I realize that it was Russia's responsibility to provide the infrastructure but it could be explained by incompetence but what Ukraine did can't be explained by anything other than contempt for the Crimeans.
Lol. Sure Russia shouldn't have stolen Ukrainian land, but why didn't Ukraine help them out after? Come the fuck on.
 
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