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RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,093
My first thought for the spike was that either Sylvie or Loki created the TVA sometime in the future. they have time machines. they can go back to the beginning and create it. this means that if they die in Lamentis, they cannot create it the TVA and then the timeline falls apart.

That also cleans up why they waited until she is 8 and why someone like Ravonna went to get her. She was ordered by the timekeepers (a front for Sylvie) to go at that time when she had the ability to escape and not before even though her birth would be a nexus event.

Also, that is why there are so many variant lokis, because they are the time keepers?
That does actually make a good point. It's all a predestination paradox and that would certainly spike the timeline hard like it was.

At this point, it's either that or that if two variants somehow merge or bond or whatever it creates its own form of timeline anomaly. Think the old trope of two of the same objects coming into contact and annihilating everything. Same concept just with some more complicated steps instead of just touching.
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,389
So if the Time Keepers are robots... why did Ravonna bother to bring Loki and Sylvie to them in order to reset them? Is Ravonna aware of their true nature?
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,633
Fantastic episode - this show is so good. I'm really hoping that Sylvie extends past it. I really want her to have more presence in the MCU.
 

caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,346
So if the Time Keepers are robots... why did Ravonna bother to bring Loki and Sylvie to them in order to reset them? Is Ravonna aware of their true nature?
I don't know why she did bring them there but she has to know right
She keeps limiting anyone interaction with them and makes bad excuses for it
Unless the the robots told her to do i guess
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,370
Boston
I don't know why she did bring them there but she has to know right
She keeps limiting anyone interaction with them and makes bad excuses for it
Unless the the robots told her to do i guess

Her reaction to pruning Mobius tells me she isn't in on the whole thing either. She might know more, but I have a feeling she's just more of a true believer. She did seem to think she killed him / killed Loki.
 

caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,346
Her reaction to pruning Mobius tells me she isn't in on the whole thing either. She might know more, but I have a feeling she's just more of a true believer. She did seem to think she killed him / killed Loki.
The pruning thing could just be her not needing to know that but she would need to know the robots are fake
Honestly i would wait next week
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,370
Boston
It's also completely possible that they were either A: going to survive that - they're gods after all or B: were not meant to die there because it would lead to further straying from the "sacred timeline" and that caused the spike.

Or, the TVA is full of shit. We'll find out their real purpose in the next few episodes. My guess is a better understanding of timelines and the MCU multi-verse, and why they seem to be pruning other multi-verses rather than "upholding the sacred time line" as they claim, is coming.

Like I said before, a sacred timeline implies one timeline above all else, and preventing it from diverging into other timelines from variants through paradoxes / time travel shenanigans.
Other timelines don't exist, because they "lost the war" and were destroyed (supposedly) by the time keepers. So the TVA states their goal is to keep the sacred, last timeline from branching and recreating the original multi-verse problem of timelines vying for supremacy.

But, you don't let the universe randomly bubble up a heroic, good female Loki and prune her 10 years after the event that created her. She's literally from a different timeline and was allowed to exist until an event that made her a threat to the TVA's machinations. All those radically different Loki variants are, just the act of letting them live for thousands of years would create wildly divergent timelines, which we know would be way past the red line.

So it seems to me alternative universes were not destroyed, they're just being managed by the actors of the TVA, just as time is managed in our timeline by the TVA.

That's a multiverse that's still active, and at conflict with whoever is controlling the TVA. They're killing off multiverse threats, not just fixing timelines, all the while claiming theirs is sacred, because they can.

IE they're full of shit.
 
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caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,346
Wondering if Hunter B-15 is actually someone significant to the MCU/a variant of someone significant and that's why weren't shown her memories on screen…

or budget/Covid impacts, I guess.
They could have shown generic memories with her and a kid or a spouse or friends
I think it's more either creative choice or outside factors
 

quik killa

Member
Oct 29, 2017
291
Wondering if Hunter B-15 is actually someone significant to the MCU/a variant of someone significant and that's why weren't shown her memories on screen…

or budget/Covid impacts, I guess.
Probably just for efficiency. It was a fast moving episode and the audience already knows about the TVA being variants.
 

Xelan

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
765
I just thought of this and other might have as well, but what if the sacred timeline isn't the only timeline but an isolated timeline where the tva is keeping it from going past the redline to stop it from reconnecting with the multiverse at large.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
I feel like yall are thinking too hard.

Either they were going to survive the apocalypse causing a variance or them dying there would have been the variance that altered the sacred timeline.

We'll probably find out later

I'm leaning more towards the idea that nexus events aren't physical events. I don't think it's about altering the sacred timeline at all because the whole point of apocalyptic events is that you can do anything you want during one because it can't affect the sacred timeline. There's something else going on if Loki and Sylvie falling in love in the middle of an apocalypse is causing a nexus event, just like how Sylvie was taken from her own universe because of a nexus event even though she was just sitting there playing with toys.

Maybe nexus events aren't inherently bad or destructive. What if they, instead, generate a kind of temporal energy that the TVA is able to track?
 

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
Also curious is how Sylvie setting off all those reset charges created a ton of nexus events. The hell do those things even do?
 

RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,093
Which makes me curious on how you undo that damage?
Exactly. The whole point of the bombs is that they basically erase an entire timeline branch based on what we've been told. By that logic, the bombing shouldn't have fractured and splintered the timeline...it should've been erased at multiple points with that erasure moving forward through time to fill in the gaps until there's nothing left.

...but that's not what happened, so perhaps we're not being told the whole story just yet.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,754
Exactly. The whole point of the bombs is that they basically erase an entire timeline branch based on what we've been told. By that logic, the bombing shouldn't have fractured and splintered the timeline...it should've been erased at multiple points with that erasure moving forward through time to fill in the gaps until there's nothing left.

...but that's not what happened, so perhaps we're not being told the whole story just yet.
It has the same visual effect as the delete sticks so maybe they get shunted off somewhere/when else?
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
9,101
Exactly. The whole point of the bombs is that they basically erase an entire timeline branch based on what we've been told. By that logic, the bombing shouldn't have fractured and splintered the timeline...it should've been erased at multiple points with that erasure moving forward through time to fill in the gaps until there's nothing left.

...but that's not what happened, so perhaps we're not being told the whole story just yet.

I think that that monitor doesn't display the truth.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a TVA for each multiverse and each one is told that their timeline is the sacred one.

Then again that may not make sense if it all ends up being Kang controlling the timeline.
 

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
I think that that monitor doesn't display the truth.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a TVA for each multiverse and each one is told that their timeline is the sacred one.

Then again that may not make sense if it all ends up being Kang controlling the timeline.
Could be the sacred timeline is the one Kang eventually conquers, so he goes back in time and sets up the TVA to make sure things happen that way.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,556
Or, the TVA is full of shit. We'll find out their real purpose in the next few episodes. My guess is a better understanding of timelines and the MCU multi-verse, and why they seem to be pruning other multi-verses rather than "upholding the sacred time line" as they claim, is coming.

Like I said before, a sacred timeline implies one timeline above all else, and preventing it from diverging into other timelines from variants through paradoxes / time travel shenanigans.
Other timelines don't exist, because they "lost the war" and were destroyed (supposedly) by the time keepers. So the TVA states their goal is to keep the sacred, last timeline from branching and recreating the original multi-verse problem of timelines vying for supremacy.

But, you don't let the universe randomly bubble up a heroic, good female Loki and prune her 10 years after the event that created her. She's literally from a different timeline and was allowed to exist until an event that made her a threat to the TVA's machinations. All those radically different Loki variants are, just the act of letting them live for thousands of years would create wildly divergent timelines, which we know would be way past the red line.

So it seems to me alternative universes were not destroyed, they're just being managed by the actors of the TVA, just as time is managed in our timeline by the TVA.

That's a multiverse that's still active, and at conflict with whoever is controlling the TVA. They're killing off multiverse threats, not just fixing timelines, all the while claiming theirs is sacred, because they can.

IE they're full of shit.

I think you're wrong in your interpretation that by "sacred timeline" implies that the TVA is suggesting they only allow one timeline to exist, pruning every branch. If that was how they wanted people to believe they operate, why would they have given Loki a glimpse of all the other Loki variants? Those variants lived Longer than Selvy before the TVA pruned them. so obviously they were never in the business of pruning every branch and haven't been trying to convince people others. They allow "minor" variances, but intervene if variance levels become a threat to their preferred flow of time. Loki being born a girl wasn't inherently a large enough variance for the TVA to feel need to intervene. Same with all the other Lokis that don't look like our Loki.
 
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RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,093
Those variants lived Longer than Selvy before the TVA pruned them
While I agree that "The Sacred Timeline" does not necessarily mean the ONLY timeline, using Loki variants compared to Sylvie and how long they lived isn't a great example. Sylvie was pruned as a child because that's when she was deemed a variant. Equally so, the adult Loki's could have lived lives identically to "our" Loki up until the point they changed. It could have been mere moments that their variant timelines existed before they break loose and cause the TVA headaches.

Also, we know that some level of variants is also acceptable by the TVA because they explicitly mentioned that the Avengers' actions were part of the sacred timeline...including the 2014 Thanos and Gamora variants. So it's clearly the case, but arguing that an adult and/or vastly different Loki means they lived longer as a variant isn't a sure thing.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
9,101
I think that the junkyard world started off as the Netflix Marvel Universe (Lol) and then the TVA started dumping Loki's and Thanos's galore there, so earth soon got conquered and now it's just a junkyard for variants where it soon becomes survival of the fittest or the smartest.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,556
I'm leaning more towards the idea that nexus events aren't physical events. I don't think it's about altering the sacred timeline at all because the whole point of apocalyptic events is that you can do anything you want during one because it can't affect the sacred timeline. There's something else going on if Loki and Sylvie falling in love in the middle of an apocalypse is causing a nexus event, just like how Sylvie was taken from her own universe because of a nexus event even though she was just sitting there playing with toys.

Maybe nexus events aren't inherently bad or destructive. What if they, instead, generate a kind of temporal energy that the TVA is able to track?

Nexus events are just dominoes that fall, sending a timeline on a path that the TVA doesn't like.

If Loki decided as a kid that he would be a force for good, that would be a nexus event because he wouldn't team up with Thanos. The TVA intended for him to be the guy who's evil plot brings the Avengers together.

The point of hiding in apocalypse is that their actions would be untraceable because there's few domino they can drop that would influence the timeline enough to cause major variance. But the difference between Lamentis and Pompei is that Loki had a way out in the latter he wasn't doomed like everyone around him was. If his presence was needed for something in the sacred timeline, but he broke his device while in Pompei, then that would have caused a variance spike when the volcano erupted.
 

pikachief

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,579
Been saying it since ep 2, but this show needs to end with mobius riding a jet ski into the sunset.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,556
While I agree that "The Sacred Timeline" does not necessarily mean the ONLY timeline, using Loki variants compared to Sylvie and how long they lived isn't a great example. Sylvie was pruned as a child because that's when she was deemed a variant. Equally so, the adult Loki's could have lived lives identically to "our" Loki up until the point they changed. It could have been mere moments that their variant timelines existed before they break loose and cause the TVA headaches.

Also, we know that some level of variants is also acceptable by the TVA because they explicitly mentioned that the Avengers' actions were part of the sacred timeline...including the 2014 Thanos and Gamora variants. So it's clearly the case, but arguing that an adult and/or vastly different Loki means they lived longer as a variant isn't a sure thing.

No Sylvie was pruned because thats when her variance was deemed problematic for the TVA. She was a variant the minute she was conceived.

We also know she had a significantly different upbringing compared to Loki, so it's safe to assume the other, differently looking, Loki's did as well.

As far as Thanos and Gamora variants- yes that just furthers my points. TVA isn't inherently opposed to variation or alternate timelines. They only get involved when a variation presents a threat to their preferred time flow.
 
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BobbyRawlins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,485
the B-15 scene was just so well done and she nailed what she was going for. i was transfixed watching her remember

and holy shit i just realized she was ruby in lovecraft country. i KNEW she looked familiar.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,029
Waiting until she was 8-10 years old before pruning her seems to go against the "red line" explanation, which seems to be something considered "bad". So either they're not really being consistent with their own logic, or she isn't from the prime/sacred timeline and was intercepted before becoming a threat.
Which actually makes me wonder a lot about nexus events because they're clearly not "a thing that the Sacred Timeline says isn't meant to happen", or at least they're not physical events. Something about Sylvie was enough to cause the TVA to bring in a little kid and seemingly erase any trace of her in her own universe and now we know that, somehow, two Loki falling in love is enough to almost redline the Sacred Timeline.

...so what is actually going on? What is the Sacred Timeline predicated on? It's clearly not preventing undesirable decisions that lead to the creation of new universes that don't adhere to the Sacred Timeline. There's something more to it than that.

They grab Sylvie because she was becoming heroic. She was explicitly playing with a Valkyrie action figure.

Her other comments about 'taking down the fascists' play directly into this.

edit: Also, her crying out to the TVA agents to help the other person too.
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,370
Boston
I think you're wrong in your interpretation that by "sacred timeline" implies that the TVA is suggesting they only allow one timeline to exist, pruning every branch. If that was how they wanted people to believe they operate, why would they have given Loki a glimpse of all the other Loki variants? Those variants lived Longer than Selvy before the TVA pruned them. so obviously they were never in the business of pruning every branch and haven't been trying to convince people others. They allow "minor" variances, but intervene if variance levels become a threat to their preferred flow of time. Loki being born a girl wasn't inherently a large enough variance for the TVA to feel need to intervene. Same with all the other Lokis that don't look like our Loki.

I mean, that seems like a pretty large variation regardless. Add in the butterfly effect, and the longer a variation is allowed to exist, the more different a timeline is going to become because of cascading differences. A female heroic Loki is going to be way different in her 300 year adolescent than our prankster loner Loki.

But maybe I'm overthinking this and they don't really have a logic to any of this. After all, the TVA have time machines, why would anything ever approach a red line in the first place if they can just pop in to the exact moment they need to and reset, even if another team messed up and allowed it to go past red.

The TVA just doesn't make much sense as explained so far.
 
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Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,808
Why do I have the horrible feeling we'll
have an emotional moment where Loki and Sylvie have to part ways, being unable to stay in each others universe.

Oh god it's Bad Wolf Bay all over again
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Why do I have the horrible feeling we'll
have an emotional moment where Loki and Sylvie have to part ways, being unable to stay in each others universe.

Oh god it's Bad Wolf Bay all over again
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