Fantastic finale! I loved the Marvel Studios intro and opening scene. Looking forward to seeing more Kang.
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Marvel Studios' Loki |OT| See You Soon (All of Season 1 is on Disney+)
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
- Entertainment Comics OT
Yeah, it's a fun dilemma that Loki is both a being of chaos and someone who wanted ultimate power.
The problem is that ultimate power is -order-, not chaos.
This:
He legit was annihilating entire timelines so that another Multiverse War would not break out. At the same time, it prevents anyone in the Sacred timeline from having free will. Kang was willing to kill all versions of himself over and over for eternity to uphold his sole timeline and prevent a war in exchange for free will.
Sylvie, who had no timeline to go back to, exacted her revenge and unleashed free will at the cost of cosmic peace.
The MCU is about to get really really really fucking weird.
Dude has more of hook than Thanos does. It took infinity war to humanize Thanos. Before that he was generic galactic warlord. We have somewhat of a pathos with the Kang we're presented with. He has understandable motivations.
Yeah it did a good job at that. They need scenes like this here and there with all these Phase 4+ uber-super-heroes/villains to answer the question: if you're so powerful this whole time, where the hell were you? They already used "other planets need my help too and don't have Avengers" with Captain Marvel. Now the question for Kang at least is answered: one Kang "won" and has been maintaining things as there are for eternity outside of time and the multiverse - except now he isn't, so what are the implications of that going forward. They'll need to do the same with Eternals somehow.
It's good shit.
Does he, though? He's the problem with the multiverse. It's HIM that's the threat. He should be looking for a way to erase himself entirely from existence across the multiverse instead of killing everyone in every timeline except his own.
I think that it wasn't a clever choice to use similar imagery for the depiction of different universes at the start of the episode and then when He Who Remains talks about them:
Lots of people understand that he destroyed all other universes and isolated his own, creating the sacred timeline, but the scene at the start of the episode implies that there is another universe, ours.
As much as I like this opening scene, I wish they wouldn't have shown the universe on the left. It adds confusion.
Agree, because it's redundant and just visually a way to look one entire branch / path down the timeline network that is later shown.
Worse is it doesn't show how each is connected, or rather existing in the same space.
You just jumped ahead four movies and multiple tv shows.
Ok, the timeline thing gets a little bit confusing when you think about Endgame and how Thanos-2 was able to move into the future and get killed.
Did the TVA enter the timeline where Thanos moved away from and pruned it? They had to. Otherwise there would be a different timeline without a Thanos.
Did the TVA enter the timeline where Thanos moved away from and pruned it? They had to. Otherwise there would be a different timeline without a Thanos.
It was a quick reveal in the episode but Ravonna lied. The pen she had was from her variant timeline, not from a souvenir from another agent. It's how Mobius was able to track her origin.
All of them? The show was a deconstruction of the character, a "everything you kmow about him is wrong" which was well done by the way but is this the character fans thought they were getting when the show was announced?
That timeline would've had a Thanos, Gamora, and Nebula along with an entire Chitauri army that would not exist within it. It's safe to assume that timeline got pruned entirely.
The Thanos Variant we see in Endgame was dealt with by the Avengers, therefore the TVA didn't need to intervene as he was always meant to get erased. His timeline needed to be "reset" though.
You're not wrong, but given how they handled Classic Loki, the TVA probably should've taken him out as soon as he was preparing to leave his timeline.
That's not understandable to you? If the supposed solution to world's problems is to kill yourself and ever single other version of yourself out there would you do it? It makes total sense why he wouldn't do it, from his point of view he expects someone else to start multiversal wars if he didn't do it so it makes no sense just to erase all versions of himself as that's not a solution to the problem in his mind.
It's the version fans wanted, for sure. Don't you remember all the lamenting that the Loki who had the big hero arc was killed and they were starting over in the show? All that was sidestepped easily and you can easily see this Loki as a pseudo-continuation of the Loki who died in Infinity War.
Easily my favorite of the marvel shows so far, and likely one of my favorite marvel projects so far in general. Was a ton of fun, but I'm a sucker for time shenanigans in general.
I find it quite amusing that any and all questions about the consequences of time travel in Endgame can simply be answered by "The TVA cleaned it up".
Honestly, I really hope the TVA stays around permanently. It's a great device to head off endless nitpicking about the logic of time-and-dimensional travel.
Honestly, I really hope the TVA stays around permanently. It's a great device to head off endless nitpicking about the logic of time-and-dimensional travel.
Deconstruction of the character? No, this show shows ONE Loki. Everything we know about the main Loki is tried and true and ends in Infinity War where his neck gets snapped by Thanos.
The show that was announced isn't about mainline Loki, he's dead. The show is about the Variant Loki who is an entirely different Loki that goes through the TVA ringer.
True, but the TVA exists to take out branches of time, not individuals within it which could cause branches of their own.
There is still a Gamora-2 running around in the MCU main timeline...
Yeah that's definitely gotta be dealt with. We'll probably see the effects of that handled in Thor Love and Thunder prior to GotG3
Wasn't that a pretty early comment? I was kind of under the impression that's not really the case anymore.
That was apparently what Derrickson wanted to do, and it sounds like it was one of the sources of tension between him and Marvel Studios that led to him leaving the project.
Yes. And Feige shot it down almost immediately. He compared "Horror" to what you would see in like Temple of Doom or Gremlins, things that helped create the PG-13 genre.
That depended on the intent of Tony's snap tho. He probably choose to wipe everyone that came with Thanos out of existence which would include Gamora.
That is an interesting hanging chad, so to speak - how would Tony KNOW that Gamora-2 turned good? It's not like they interacted.
Actually, it's totally possible that she was 100% snapped away. She's not there at the end of Endgame and Quill is "searching" for her, but chances are she either got snapped away or the TVA took her in to get pruned.
So
Hey the Avengers
They caused the next Multiverse war because they couldn't take an L
The deaths now is gonna dwarf the snap.
Hey the Avengers
They caused the next Multiverse war because they couldn't take an L
The deaths now is gonna dwarf the snap.
We shall see, I hope this has a pure horror skew to it, especially with Raimi at the helm. Feiges comments were super early on so a lot could have changed. It would be hilarious if Derrickson left because of them not wanting a movie with pure horror in it and then Raimi comes in and says "fuck that"
Pretty much when anything like that happens according to the TVA propaganda and dialogue "it was supposed to happen". As long as it doesn't create severe branch in the sacred timeline they wouldn't do anything.
There's now like an infinite number of TVAs though all going out and about
Oops
"See you soon"
So, what's the bet that as soon as Sylvie kills He Who Remains (who prunes all of existence to ensure his more evil variants never ascend the throne of all existence), Kang the Conqueror has now become King, and favors the chaos of the multiverse instead. Soon indeed!
It would explain his statue at the TVA, a place we understood to be outside of time and space, much like the void.
Infinite infinities and all are kind of a mind job for us apes expecting cause and effect. But the second Sylvie kills HHR, all of existence starts growing again, from the very start all the way to the void. Infinite infinities of branches, all along the timelines HHR had pruned, now growing and stretching, all in an instant. Pasts and Futures bubbled up from the chaos of nature and existence. Not just the ones he favored as not a threat.
Quite literally they didn't kill a Kang, but as he said, replaced him with a more sinister version. That was ultimately Sylvie's choice, to replace one king with another that just has a different law. Maybe.
Kang the Conqueror believes instead survival of the fittest and might make right. He allows the madness and possible end of everything as the natural law of the multiverse. Quite literally sword logic, might makes right.
The only other option was for Heroic Loki and Sylvie to take the throne and keep the TVA running. Phase 4, 5, & 6 will now be what Loki was searching for in those last few moments before thrown through the door, a third way that saves all of existence and allows free will.
So, what's the bet that as soon as Sylvie kills He Who Remains (who prunes all of existence to ensure his more evil variants never ascend the throne of all existence), Kang the Conqueror has now become King, and favors the chaos of the multiverse instead. Soon indeed!
It would explain his statue at the TVA, a place we understood to be outside of time and space, much like the void.
Infinite infinities and all are kind of a mind job for us apes expecting cause and effect. But the second Sylvie kills HHR, all of existence starts growing again, from the very start all the way to the void. Infinite infinities of branches, all along the timelines HHR had pruned, now growing and stretching, all in an instant. Pasts and Futures bubbled up from the chaos of nature and existence. Not just the ones he favored as not a threat.
Quite literally they didn't kill a Kang, but as he said, replaced him with a more sinister version. That was ultimately Sylvie's choice, to replace one king with another that just has a different law. Maybe.
Kang the Conqueror believes instead survival of the fittest and might make right. He allows the madness and possible end of everything as the natural law of the multiverse. Quite literally sword logic, might makes right.
The only other option was for Heroic Loki and Sylvie to take the throne and keep the TVA running. Phase 4, 5, & 6 will now be what Loki was searching for in those last few moments before thrown through the door, a third way that saves all of existence and allows free will.
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or the sacred timeline already started branching then (death of He Who Remains) and it doesn't matter.
Just think about this: How many times was the snap pruned until the "correct" people were snapped?
Going by the show/TVA's internal logic, Endgame was supposed to happen.
Sylvie going full Starlord wasn't.
The One Above All and He Who Remains are very different characters, lol
But I think his "see you soon" implication is basically him saying "if you kill me, the multiverse will blow up until I wind up back here again later in my personal timeline". Even now, He Who Remains is stuck in a time loop. One of them will always be left at the end.
oh I am not expecting anything of the sort. to be clear. It would be nice, but no expectations
Jonathan Majors was just fucking inspired casting.
Dude was incredible with a nuanced high and low, serious and comedic performance in The Last Black Man in San Francisco, and this is him going ok but what if instead of a playwright, Mont was a near omniscience immortal god of time.
Fucking brilliant so glad they've brought him into the MCU
Dude was incredible with a nuanced high and low, serious and comedic performance in The Last Black Man in San Francisco, and this is him going ok but what if instead of a playwright, Mont was a near omniscience immortal god of time.
Fucking brilliant so glad they've brought him into the MCU