Didn't blame developers or publishers at all. The downgrade controversies are so idiotic. Puddlegate was peak nonsense last fall
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Lack of Gameplay from E3 due to avoiding the "Downgrade" Tag?
- Thread starter jbug617
- Start date
Any one remember the first uncharted 4 teaser engine trailer? With Nathan waking up on the beach? . There you go.
Totally agree and that's a good example.This is dumb. They just need to stop with the bullshitting/bullshotting.
Still the worst example lol...
And then you get thousands of low effort/high view YouTube videos talking about how "dire" the game looks.
The specs of the consoles are even finalized yet. And this gen literally started with a couple games aiming to high because of that and being blindsided when the consoles weren't as powerful as they assumed.
This is not the LOD quality of BOTW...
This one is always lacking in context. This video is literally a cinematic, even if it indeed ran in-engine. The vast majority of people, I'd even guess >99% of people would not think BOTW was downgraded at all.
I'm sorry I can't find the last source but someone on here talked about how the "in-engine" claim may have been poorly translated, although it is dubious in the case that Aonuma really intended to say that it was gameplay (Again, despite it being a cinematic).
I respect that anyone who hunted for info felt betrayed, and I definitely agree that it was downgraded if Aonuma intended to mean that it was in-engine and "This is what the game looks like". But for the vast majority of people, they watched a cinematic, and thought it was a cinematic.
It's kind of the reason that there's not really many "BREATH OF THE WILD DOWNGRADE SHOCKING" videos, because the final game actually does look kinda better than the first playable gameplay shown at E3 in 2016.
And if you feel that the final game looks worse than the actual gameplay all the way back in 2014, I really only notice the shadowing being a bit better in some places in the original gameplay. I think overall that the final game looks better.
Then stop showing off footage that's loaded with extra details and effects you know won't make the final version, you jerks.
If you're doing this for a game that's a year or more out, no one gives a crap. If it's coming out in a few months? You're screwed regardless.
It's gamers. It could be two years out and they'd call the devs incompetent for whatever they're showing.
I'd say it's up to the Devs and Pubs to clearly and consistently state what we are seeing. Also for people who hang around forums and the like to not think they are graphics detectives with degrees in puddles. Both could work together I fancy.
Horizon: Zero Dawn is another case. Maybe I forgot the E3 trailer but I remember going "Holy shit!" when I installed the game.
I wouldn't show gameplay either if my fans got so worked up about something like the puddles in Spider-Man. (Which turned out not to be a downgrade at all.)
Can't say I blame developers. Gamers are a cruel bunch, and one downgrade will spark into a wildfire of controversy.
I think he meant that it wasn't just CGI shenanigans, but it could run at that quality (and LOD) because it's just a cinematic. But I agree, "gameplay" is usually a pretty clear indication. Keep in mind that this "gameplay" was only 6 months before the actual gameplay video they showed at the game awards. A game can obviously be downgraded in 6 months, but it's just strange to call that first video gameplay when it runs like a cinematic, and obviously looks so different than the gameplay they have ready 6 months later.
I'm not trying to refute the actual downgrade that may have happened. Just that I'm pretty sure the majority of people watched this video, clearly thought it was a cinematic, and enjoyed the final game. It didn't have the same punch as Watch Dogs or the Witcher which were undeniably gameplay to the mass audience that they had.
I personally fall into that camp because I never read these sources, but again, that doesn't change a downgrade that probably happened.
With any luck, we'll get a BoTW remaster, or the next Zelda will have a large jump in graphical fidelity due to only being on Switch, better understanding of the engine, building on exisitng base, etc.
I was just pointing out that nintendo was an example of doing the turn graphics up to 11 thing too.
at e3 2020 I want every single game to show puddles in gameplay even if its set in some sand dunes in Egypt only to pull em out at release fuck it lol
this shit is so dumb but like...people are dumb af.
this shit is so dumb but like...people are dumb af.
Yeah you're absolutely right, it just feels weird because (to my knowledge) that's one of the only times they've done it. In recent memory, they didn't seem to do it with Luigi's Mansion 3 but time will tell with Metroid Prime 4 and the next Zelda. For the most part I agree with others that their games tend to look slightly better as release closes in.
To be honest, I'm probably stanning Nintendo/Aonuma because I don't think he wants to be disingenuous towards his audience. But I guess my bias comes from the fact that I think despite fidelity issues and 30fps, I think BoTW looks great.
Poor devs having to settle for unrepresentative CG trailers instead of unrepresentative vertical slices of games that don't exist and never will.
Kinda sorta OT, but it just occured to me that at least regarding the MS conference, Phil/MS were pretty clear in recent years that due to cancellations or issues like Scalebound and Crackdown 3 they were really hesitant to announce or show games unless it was within I think 8-6 months of release. Kinda funny how everyone got up in arms about it being a CGI-fest at their conference given they had this stance for some time now, as well as the topic of this post. And I'll be honest, watching it live I was very much in the "give us gameplay!" crowd.
Kind of an interesting parallel too regarding movies, where it's not uncommon at all for movie trailers to include scenes that never even make it into the final film, but no one really cares. Can you imagine if you saw a really interesting or cool gameplay sequence in a game trailer, only to find out post-release that was no longer part of the game? There'd be meltdowns left right and center.
Seems kind of like a concerted effort should be made by both consumers and devs/pubs regarding marketing and expectations for gaming. Everyone should be wary of hype but at the same time it shouldn't be discouraged, it's fun to be apart of and is somewhat ingrained in the community aspect of gaming and gaming forums.
Kind of an interesting parallel too regarding movies, where it's not uncommon at all for movie trailers to include scenes that never even make it into the final film, but no one really cares. Can you imagine if you saw a really interesting or cool gameplay sequence in a game trailer, only to find out post-release that was no longer part of the game? There'd be meltdowns left right and center.
Seems kind of like a concerted effort should be made by both consumers and devs/pubs regarding marketing and expectations for gaming. Everyone should be wary of hype but at the same time it shouldn't be discouraged, it's fun to be apart of and is somewhat ingrained in the community aspect of gaming and gaming forums.
A lot can change in those 7 months. Imagine you are expanding the game from a small vertical slice to its final size the past couple of years and the game that ran at a smooth 30 now sits at an unstable 20 fps. Performance has plummeted and now you need to meet your ship date and optimize the crap out of your game to deliver a stable 30 (meaning you need to hit atleast 40/50fps and cap it at 30). some of this stuff you can do in code, most of it is asset culling. Lower draw distances, lower quality LOD's closer to the camera, less props, lower resolution in your lightmaps, less lights with dynamic shadows etc etc.
Optimization always happens last, its a very natural part of game development. Thats why games can suddenly look like tits after that process to keep it stable.
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How? Complete the entire game before showing off any footage/screenshots?
EVEN still, Yoshi looked better in pre release footage than the final game.
Only thing I can say to this is if E3 2019 is representative of future E3s then this is the last one I'll be watching.
Maybe I am wrong but Sony has none of these issues with GOW, Horizon or their exclusives? Didn't they show lots of gameplay? No one said wow those look gross. This is a weak excuse....show what the games are like and not some marketing fluff, or wait until they are ready.
I hate to break it to you guys but nobody really cares about your downgrade controversies. What you see on the internet is just a fraction of who actually buys videogames. All you do with these things is make it easier for marketing departments to play you all like chumps.
The comments the VG27 article refer to is straight up game makers taking the piss out of you.
The comments the VG27 article refer to is straight up game makers taking the piss out of you.
the average game player believes they want to see early gameplay, but absolutely none of them are actually prepared to see early gameplay. it's shambolic, broken and reliant wholey on someone expressing future wishes and explaining where the gameplay, mechanics, and graphical fidelity could be in the future and what they hope for.
it's just easier to stick with CG. more expensive, but you're not taxing an entire team to create slices for public consumption or pushing teams to prepare assets before they're really ready for show.
it's just easier to stick with CG. more expensive, but you're not taxing an entire team to create slices for public consumption or pushing teams to prepare assets before they're really ready for show.
I work in the industry as well and I wholly agree with that. You just don't know exactly what it'll look like until the very end.
Then you get stuff like the SW demo where people complain about it not looking very good
It wasnt nonsense, there were other "downgrades" from the final game in that scene such as some texture detail and shadow quality. Yet people became nasty and defensive when that tried to be pointed out
This is not the LOD quality of BOTW...
but Nintendo is also not afraid of showing this:
EDIT: just realized I got beaten lol
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What's the line between bullshitting and this?
That was also a thing where they didn't show the thing fully as they filmed the creators first with the tv a fair distance away.
It's probably not the only reason and it's not a terribly good reason by itself. Nintendo Treehouse needs to be replicated by all the Mainstays. If you are not going to show gameplay during a conference then throughout the week we should be able to see something.... Selling a game based on CGI trailers is not the move.
I mean, it's a fair reason to not show gameplay.
By the same token, it's also a fair reason if people aren't excited by your announcement since it lacks gameplay.
It's true that consumers and youtubers can be an unemphatic bunch and can easily get riled up over downgrades, but - it's the job of the game devs/publishers to manage their reveal so that it's something they can meet or exceed in the shipping product. When the level of disparity between what is shown/released is so vast, people have every right to be upset.
By the same token, it's also a fair reason if people aren't excited by your announcement since it lacks gameplay.
It's true that consumers and youtubers can be an unemphatic bunch and can easily get riled up over downgrades, but - it's the job of the game devs/publishers to manage their reveal so that it's something they can meet or exceed in the shipping product. When the level of disparity between what is shown/released is so vast, people have every right to be upset.
Saying that graphics or how Nintendo games look/run is completly irrelevant in terms of public reception is just flat out wrong though. There is a reason why people are hyped for something like Links Awakening but are straight up disgusted when the new Contra game was shown.
Might as well show nothing if you're only two options are either CGI showing nothing of what the game will actually be like or gameplay footage who're completely different than what the actual product will feature.