From this point of view I genuinly like Quiet's design because it fits the character, the gameplay and the overall narrative of the game (exactly like 2b)
Basically the shower scene for example can narratively be viewed as an expression of her condition and the epitome of what she had to endure during his life, it even may be a touching moment of freedom. Its not because the frame and camera underline that other males characters view her as an object or reduced to her body that the player has do the same. I think its design and some moments ingame seem cringey or offensive only when we separate these things from the overall themes. I can't see her as objectified or reduce her to a sexy body because she is a confident and strong woman with some deep flows. She basically tries the whole game to appropriate to herself this exposed body and goes beyond her condition by embracing it. It's overly sexualized if we merely posta screen of her on a forum, and that's this gesture that objectify her (like the game detects the camera in the helicopter scene to trigger the script)
I love this post.A lot of the time it actually does. Oftentimes the rules of character design are thrown out in favor of the designer's personal fetishes. Which they speak about openly in interviews and such. When you see a character like Link, every aspect of his design tells you about his role. Every little belt, piece of equipment, pouches, etc. you get the full picture:
meanwhile, sexualized character designs often look like an almagation of the designer's fetishes and/or designed to appeal to a presumably straight male audience's fetishes:
ok so the designer clearly likes
-catgirls
-knee high boots
-revealing outfits that make no sense
Oh.. she has a witch hat, she must be a witch, now if only the other aspects of the outfit reflected that.
It's a poor approach to character design especially since it's such a one sided affair. We've gotten some fantastic character designs when it comes to designers putting in effort beyond "Well my fetish x so this character needs that" and they all fit the assassin
Ostracised queen turned assassin:
Parkour expert in a futuristic dystopian city:
Former pilot turned superhero:
Struggling Survivor in a zombie apocalypse:
Inquisitor who hunts jedi and works for the empire:
An assassin in Ancient Egypt:
Quiet's outfit tells me nothing about the character because that's not it's intent first and foremost. Which just tells me that it's bad character design for a poorly written character. 👏
Basically the shower scene for example can narratively be viewed as an expression of her condition and the epitome of what she had to endure during his life, it even may be a touching moment of freedom. Its not because the frame and camera underline that other males characters view her as an object or reduced to her body that the player has do the same. I think its design and some moments ingame seem cringey or offensive only when we separate these things from the overall themes. I can't see her as objectified or reduce her to a sexy body because she is a confident and strong woman with some deep flows. She basically tries the whole game to appropriate to herself this exposed body and goes beyond her condition by embracing it. It's overly sexualized if we merely posta screen of her on a forum, and that's this gesture that objectify her (like the game detects the camera in the helicopter scene to trigger the script)
I dunno.
MGS1 has little tricks that let you get to see Meryl in her underwear, MGS2 has all those pin-up model posters in the locker, MGS3's camera looooves Eva. Always seemed pretty consistent across the series.
There was at least enough for someone to make a 7 minute long video about pervy moments in the series before MGS V even came out
There was really nothing wrong with that scene. There is a 1 second camera angle that is questionable but besides that the scene makes sense for the character and doesn't feel sexualized. It's nothing compared to Quiet. I remember the controversy before the release and when I played it made me laugh that there was a fuss about it.I heared that Kojima learned his lesson for Death Stranding, but yesterday I was reading Fragile story. Sigh. Of course, he had to do "that" scene.
Keep in mind that in that topic:Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP) OT
Please read these notable posts before participating in the thread, if you have not done so already!www.resetera.com
Two OTs worth of people CONSTANTLY posting examples. Why are there SO SO SO SO SO MANY examples!? It's JUST women too.
A lot of people defend the xb2 characters just because they are apparently not bad characters even if their designs are terribad.Keep in mind that in that topic:
- People defended Dorothy, the underage looking hookerbot from VA-11 Hall-A, citing her as a example of a sex positive character.
- People told us we should ignore the sexism from the Trails series just because Estelle is a semi decent protagonist. Even though she a dumb klutz that eventuality falls in love with her adoptive brother.
This is a gross generalisation of the 'why women' thread.Keep in mind that in that topic:
- People defended Dorothy, the underage looking hookerbot from VA-11 Hall-A, citing her as a example of a sex positive character.
- People told us we should ignore the sexism from the Trails series just because Estelle is a semi decent protagonist. Even though she a dumb klutz that eventuality falls in love with her adoptive brother.
That's the point I'm making. People who criticize designs aren't above to be prone to the same biases as the people who defend them.A lot of people defend the xb2 characters just because they are apparently not bad characters even if their designs are terribad.
A lot of the time it actually does. Oftentimes the rules of character design are thrown out in favor of the designer's personal fetishes. Which they speak about openly in interviews and such. When you see a character like Link, every aspect of his design tells you about his role. Every little belt, piece of equipment, pouches, etc. you get the full picture:
meanwhile, sexualized character designs often look like an almagation of the designer's fetishes and/or designed to appeal to a presumably straight male audience's fetishes:
ok so the designer clearly likes
-catgirls
-knee high boots
-revealing outfits that make no sense
Oh.. she has a witch hat, she must be a witch, now if only the other aspects of the outfit reflected that.
It's a poor approach to character design especially since it's such a one sided affair. We've gotten some fantastic character designs when it comes to designers putting in effort beyond "Well my fetish x so this character needs that" and they all fit the bill as a result in the same way Link does.
Ostracised queen turned assassin:
Parkour expert in a futuristic dystopian city:
Former pilot turned superhero:
Struggling Survivor in a zombie apocalypse:
Inquisitor who hunts jedi and works for the empire:
An assassin in Ancient Egypt:
Quiet's outfit tells me nothing about the character because that's not it's intent first and foremost. Which just tells me that it's bad character design for a poorly written character. 👏
That reminds me how they didn't really explain how you could talk to the aliens, besides the whole "there's something weird going on in this planet".This thing is the worst character I've ever seen in a video game:
I knew they made bikini party games, but this looks straight out of a porno.I mean...
Edit: also, you get a trophy for looking up MC's skirt in Nier Automata
Uh, I'm not sure if 3DS era counts as this gen but Pokemon animators were having a little too much fun with Korrina
Quiet is worse. These ones are bad but at least they're not out of place on a beach or in a swimming pool.I mean...
Edit: also, you get a trophy for looking up MC's skirt in Nier Automata
Quiet is worse. These ones are bad but at least they're at least not out of place on a beach or in a swimming pool.
oh yeahNope, that thick girl from Atelier Ryza looks awful. Not talking about Ryza herself. The other girl.
I knew they made bikini party games, but this looks straight out of a porno.
This is different as the DOA Xtreme games are essentially Ecchi games where as Quiet is in a quirky military espionage series.I mean...
Edit: also, you get a trophy for looking up MC's skirt in Nier Automata
That's the point I'm making. People who criticize designs aren't above to be prone to the same biases as the people who defend them.
btw at what point dismissing a justification with a video trollling anime fan is considered ad hominem ?
Basically i'm asking at those who think Quiet's design is not only out of place (it seems pretty subjective) but clearly offensive/regressive : what's the criteria ? You all seems to be ok with the idea of forbidding or prohibiting a quiet-like design right ? Like, if you guys were an ethic staff you'll happily check the artist work and say "delete this, add that, change the camera angle" etc. Its ok if you work with a justified normativity but the criteria is far from obvious. Are cleavages always forbidden ? How to distinguish a good justification from a bad ? Or is it that no matter the justification, such and such design choices are always bad ? If you dismiss Quiet you have to either dismiss the whole chara design either the design/choices of some ingame moments (if so you need to bring an objective reason). Finally by putting Dead or Alive bikinis on the same plan of Quiet's design you actively agree witht the fact that either the Quiet's design justification given by kojima and proven by the whole game is not enough (but why ? by the narrative itself ? By the way the game exposed the narrative ?) either there is no acceptable ways to show a character with this outfits.
Again, they had no problems deflecting accusations of sexism/incest simply because they happen to actually like the character/series that's being put on blast. What's so different of what is going on with some users on this topic? Same deal, as far as I'm concerned.It feels like you are trying to paint all the people in that thread as hypocrites because a few random posters chimed in with some bad takes. That feels pretty disingenuous to me.
*edit*
I just softened the tone of what I wrote.
A convoluted justification behind a scene that has an intent that starts and ends with fanservice is not a justification.That's not how stories work. You sound like the type of person who would consider this to be an allegory for feminism just because the creator said so:btw at what point dismissing a justification with a video trollling anime fan is considered ad hominem ?
Note, literally her writing is affected by all of the stupid justifications for her character. Literally from minute one of her appearance in the game, literally EVERY single enemy in the hospital sequence is wearing a mask, they also coincidentally, are all male. Quiet, is on a stealth mission. She is not wearing a mask. She considers anyone who sees her face to be a threat. Literally the only reason she didn't succeed is because she felt the need to note that another patient saw her face. Why isn't a wearing a mask? Who knows? Because we need a contrived reason to justify her stopping in the middle of the mission instead of getting the job done. Why doesn't Quiet communicate via paper and letters? Because she's a poorly written character who's design was meant to encourage more fanservice cosplay.Basically i'm asking at those who think Quiet's design is not only out of place (it seems pretty subjective) but clearly offensive/regressive : what's the criteria ?
Oh damn. I guess it really was a thing. I was thinking "this is some weird ass fanasty world fanservice" when I did that minigame in Final Fantasy Crystal Bearers.
For example.
I remember the default view for when you entered the chopper menu (which you did quite a bit) being first person facing forward, and she'd do her softcore porn in the background.So the player is a perv. You can simply look away. She only does that when you stare at her.
The problem of Kojima ruining Quiet's character, would not be improved by Kojima also ruining a male character.I agree.
Also I don't understand the hate here. Call me old fashioned but I enjoy looking at half naked sexualized character models of the opposite gender from time to time. I don't enjoy or agree with the sexualization of underage girls or of women with unrealistic proportions. But Quiet looks perfectly fine to me.
The real outrage should be that there are not enough sexualized men in games. The other gender should have something to look at too. I'm sure they are less prim about it than most members here.
When the design looks extremely out of place and doesn't seem at all like what the character would wear in accordance to their personality it's a bad design. I do like sexualized designs don't get me wrong but it depends on the context and game genre. I would have loved if Quiet had a badass stealth suit like Venom Snake but no she looks like she fell into a blender.Why does "bad character design" always come to "sexualized design" here...
From what I know, some literally were.
Lollipop Chainsaw did that first :PEdit: also, you get a trophy for looking up MC's skirt in Nier Automata
Jesus fucking Christ
It really shows, most of them have really revealing outfits. Totally unneccesary. Especially coming from a Nintendo owned studio.
Xenoblade 2 at least has the worst designs in a first party Nintendo game
Its not even close.
Also why is Xenoblade 2's character design so horny? Were the characters designed by hentai artists?