If Democrats Win The House, What Do They ABSOLUTELY Need To Do With the Majority?
- Thread starter BWoog
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Make it clear to the GOP that the days of bipartisanship are over. They killed any and all fake good will they might have had left. It's war.
I'm afraid they will still try to be "nice guys" and get stomped on tho. God they really need to grow a spine. I don't want to be disappointed, again.
I'm afraid they will still try to be "nice guys" and get stomped on tho. God they really need to grow a spine. I don't want to be disappointed, again.
Get every incriminating piece of evidence against Republicans and the Russia investigation out there. They won't have the votes for actual impeachment, so reduce Trump's presidency to a lame duck two years. They can't do much else.
It's what they live for. The Democratic party prefers political play acting to wielding power with a purpose.
That will need a majority in the senate and a Democrat as the president. Not happening.
To start with, they should read this book.
Most of it is wild fan fiction, but there are some good ideas in there.
Vox: Why this political scientist thinks the Democrats have to fight dirty
Source
That doesn't help anyone. Instead it just leads to the same shit we're dealing with now, where the laws flip flop routinely based on who is in power at any given moment.
Like, I get not wanting to work with them because of the shit they've been doing, but the goal should be to fix the system not to 'win'
The fundamental problem is that the GOP has no interest in "fixing" the system.
You can't work together to fix the system when the other side doesn't want to fix it.
Fuck em. Kill the GOP. Do your best to kill the GOP. That's all they really could achieve.
Your opinions are shortsighted garbage. You can't just 'kill the GOP' - you have to fix the systemic issues or it's just going to continue to be like this. That doesn't have to mean compromise, it means serving the people rather than yourselves, even to their own political detriment.
We're not talking about working together in this thread to begin with. But posts like "HUR DUR HURT DEM CAUSE THEY HURT US" are fucking pointless, all you're saying is "I want this abuse of power to continue" - I dunno about you, but I sure as shit don't. I want to see this stuff changed within my lifetime.
I would want them to reverse a lot of things Trump did, and investigate and impeach after investigation is done.
Factually incorrect, doing that, would likely bolster their support. Much of the base do not want Democrats to work with Trump at all, working with him gives an appearance of weakness or appeasement.
Anyways, I know some of these posts are jokes, but many of the things being suggested Democrats can not do with just the House alone and can not do even if they gained both the House and the Senate because Trump is still president. He will veto anything he doesn't like.
The best thing Democrats can do is stonewall and make his presidency a lame duck one. I am not even sure if they should give him any wins at all. I do not think they should pass any legislation except maybe an infrastructure one, because people will credit him with it since he is the head of state. Do him, what they did to Obama and stack the courts and make our territories states while increasing the house to ensure they never again can get a trifecta.
Literally every poll including Trump's disapproval numbers. If they do not take advantage of it, then they are likely to lose some of their supporters. People who support Trump aren't going to switch to Democrats, nor should Democrats attempt to court those people at the risk of losing those that actually do support Democrats.
U.S politics works on cycles and Trump has started off with major scandals and as one of the most disapproved presidents in U.S history. 2020 looks good for Democrats. I don't agree with that guy saying impeach everyone, but we can impeach Kav and Trump and not take a political hit. In fact, it would be wise to do so.
I don't have time to count this up but ... uhhh... wouldn't this policy be devastating for Democrats, and greatly reward Republicans? Paul Ryan is the 79th most senior congressman, and from numbers 1-78, the numbers certainly favor Democrats over Republicans. Further, Republicans most made gains in congress in 2010, 2012, and 2014, while Democrats haven't made significant gains since 2006, when they flipped the House.
I don't have the math in front of me, but just... looking at this color map I'd have to imagine this would benefit Republicans.
And, historically, the longest serving congressmen have generally tended towards democrats over republicans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_United_States_Congress_by_longevity_of_service
This list is predominantly dominated by Democrats, so I'm not sure if term limits would really produce the thing that Democrats would want, if implemented. Of course, the congress has had a different makeup since 1994 than it did for the 60 years prior, where for the most part, congress was dominated by the Democratic party... And since 1994, it has flipped about every 10 years or so. But then again, that sort of defeats the purpose of term limits.
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Polls are not "facts" though. You argued my opinion was factually incorrect.
What you're suggesting is not only abandoning/ignoring up to 40% of the country, but aggressively antagonizing them with theatrics. That is not how democracy nor governance is supposed to work. Democrats need to find a spine, find a platform, and stick to it with almost religious fervor. There can be no daylight between progressive/liberal policies and the direct positive impact they can have on literally every single American citizen. They need to make it crystal clear how much GOP policies and governance is a complete failure from top to bottom.
Impeachment is very difficult. Unless there is a tidal wave far, far greater than what polls have suggested (or unless there is an even larger bombshell from the Mueller investigation or some other unforeseen event), impeaching Trump before 2020 is not happening. Kavanaugh, I dunno, there hasn't been a Supreme Court impeachment in over 200 years, and I doubt Kavanaugh will be the first.
Politically speaking (e.g., not talking about policy, but purely, politics), the best result of a Democratic takeover in 2018 is that Democrats can launch investigations of Trump's shady dealings... His financial connections to foreign actors, his tax returns which likely indicate deep tax fraud, his campaign payments to porn stars as hush money, and other activities that -- so far -- we've basically had to rely on the New York Times and Washington Post to do for congress, and Mueller, who himself is private and not acting politically.
The benefit of those things isn't that they make impeachment more likely (I don't really think impeaching Trump by 2020 is realistic, and could actually backfire), but that they make Republicans feel pressured to turn against Trump, and effectively turn him into a lame duck president. Now, new Republicans -- Republicans elected since 2010 -- are not likely to turn against Trump. But, old Republicans, former neoconservatives, would be more likely to turn against him if Democrats can muster enough investigations to turn a larger voting bloc against him, which puts political pressure on Republicans in future congressional elections.
A further political benefit is if Democrats can convincingly take the house and bring the senate within a vote, or take the senate, then they can force the President to have to go veto-crazy with bills... Popular bills, liberal bills, that you know he can't sign. This then paints the president as being against the will of the people, it hamstrings him and Republicans going into 2020 and. Either he'd be forced to sign progressive, democratic policy, or he'd have to shut down government, or he'd have to veto everything and it would further weaken Republicans politically.
While there is a lot of completely unrealistic dreaming going on in this thread, that isn't the only thing it grants them. The investigative powers it will grant the Dems will be a major thorn in Trump and the GOP's side.
A really good idea would be to put some standards in place concerning who can be appointed to high level positions, like Cabinet members and agency heads. It should not be allowed to put a lifelong opponent of the EPA in charge of the EPA, for example. The Secretary of Education should have to have a career in teaching. And so on.
Semantics, polls (that are done correctly) give a really good picture of where the populace stands on things. And yes, I do suggest ignoring much of the population because anyone that approves of Trump as I said before, is not worth appealing to. We would never gain a significant amount of those voters.
You do realize I am only talking about House impeachment, right? Difficult my ass, they impeached Clinton over less. Its definitely possible and would be a net benefit. The 2020 election is pretty much Democratic favored, it would take a really bad mistake or a really terrible candidate to lose it.
Also Democrats can do all of the things we are saying. Its not a one or another situation, they have 2 years to do so. I am not counting on us winning the Senate. If we do win the Senate, it would add further to my belief, not that impeachment would be necessary at that point.
Oh, no, I didn't know you just meant procedural impeachment that wouldn't result in Trump being removed from office. I think, when most people talk about impeachment they intend to mean an impeachment that would remove the president, not a feckless impeachment that leads to Democrats losing the next mid-term election and the resignation of whoever the Democratic speaker of the house is ... which is exactly what happened in 1998 after Republican's failed impeachment of Clinton. That feckless impeachment that Republicans pursued in the run-up to the 1998 midterm was a complete political disaster. Republican polls encouraged them to go for it, and it blew up in their faces in glorious fashion, and led to the immediate downfall of the biggest Republican celebrity in government. Feckless impeachment is a political risk. Opinion polls might tell you that there is broad support for something, but if you pursue it and it is perceived as a failure, then the risk is high.
2020 should lean Democratic, but so should have 2016, and there isn't a strong national Democrat yet. If we had this thread back in 2014, two years before the 2016 Election, it would have been filled to the brim with articles about how the GOP is dead and how demographics are going to make it impossible for a Republican to ever win again unless they make a hard turn towards the center-left and embrace immigrant and women's issues. That, obviously, didn't happen, they made a further turn to the right and Trump (who wasn't even mentioned in the top 10 or top 20 GOP candidates in 2014) ran the most anti-immigrant campaign since before World War II. So, I think we should really pause before thinking that Democrats can only lose 2020 if they make a big mistake or put up a bad candidate.
Kind of, but not really. It's hard for a fresh congress to pass a lot of reform in 2 years, especially with what's likely a divided congress and, still, an opposition president. Remember, Democrats had a united house, senate, and president from 2008-2010, and a near 60-seat majority. They passed Obamacare, but only the moderate version that could get through the House. Thinking that a House controlled by Democrats and a split or Republican leaning senate, combined with a Republican president, and conservative court, is going to result in a lot of political and policy action is being very optimistic.
I don't think Democrats should put their entire focus behind impeachment but if you read this thread, and most progressives immediate response to the question, then you'd get the impression that impeachment should be the #1 issue.
I think Democrats should do what I've laid out, which is focus on investigations, and let the impeachment issue lay as a sort of threat, but be weary of pursuing it. By investigating the president and drumming up more dirt on him, and then forcing Republicans in the senate to vote down Democratic policy, you pressure moderate Republicans in Congress to either distance themselves from Trump, or seek further legislative losses in 2020.
Though, I don't think the white house is a done deal for Democrats in 2020 either. I think it's still a huge risk.
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Lean harder left to actually get stuff done.
Basically do everything they can to remove corruption such as doing thorough background checks on candidates.
Basically do everything they can to remove corruption such as doing thorough background checks on candidates.
The goal should be to always win so we can fix the system. Republicans have no plans to fix the system. One of their primary beliefs is the system is the problem.
I'll take laws that flip flop over laws that stay regressive forever.
This thread is about what we think Democrats should do if we take the House. I mentioned above, that we should not be unrealistic with what we can do. President Clinton isn't Trump, that is why they lost so much political capital impeaching him. The majority of U.S citizens do not like Trump, there is no reason to shy away from doing everything we can to punish him.
Also that Republican failure still gave them the presidency in 2000. U.S citizens and by extension, the voters, have an incredibly short memory.
2016, if we go by U.S's cycles, was definitely Republican favored (thank you U.S political system). Also, its really a special circumstance. We would have definitely won, had Hillary not been our candidate, or had Comey kept his mouth shut. We should largely remember, the Republicans only won 2000 and 2016 elections due to the circumstances I said above and the fact the House of Representative is so small, that it gives less populated states increased representation.
U.S has the tendency to kick out the party that heads the president seat, even if it isn't their fault for U.S's woes. If you look at the senate election map for 2020, it would be REALLY difficult for the Democrats to not gain the Senate. With Trump hated so much, I don't see how he keeps the presidency either.
I don't think we really disagree with one another here. I am more like "eh", on the thought of impeaching Trump, I just disagree that it would backfire or be fruitless with everything we know currently.
They largely couldn't do anything because of Obama and Reid refusing to nuke the filibuster. They were short-sighted and believed in bipartisanship, which drug out the legislative process. If Democrats think putting in place the filibuster when they have a trifecta again is a good idea, then they are naive, fools.
Your idea only works if we can get both the Senate and the House this year, which isn't likely. If we only gain the house, all we can do is stonewall, start investigations, and impeach. Democrats working with Republicans in this age of partisanship, is a minefield with us only having the House.
I will eat a piece of my shoe and upload that video to Youtube if we somehow lost either of these (the 2020, president and senate elections), that is how certain I am.
they are going to work with Trump on items they see eye to eye with — this includes infrastructure
i bet Trump pivots and becomes more centrist
i bet Trump pivots and becomes more centrist
This. It's faulty simple. Initiate proper investigations with subpoena powers.
I have family in Puerto Rico. Here's an interesting article on how they came up with the estimated dead.
Ok? So will I, but that doesn't mean that's the fucking goal.
It's petty and worthless to come in here and just want revenge for shit instead of wanting actual answers to the problems that caused that shit in the first place.
Yeah, OBVIOUSLY they should 'fix' what they can in terms of laws or holding up shitty new ones, but that doesn't mean that's what we should actually be hoping for.
Seriously. How the fuck did we let a reality tv star become president? That's something that should only happen in movies starring Robin Williams.
Refer to every republican as "The honorable rape apologist from ______" when recognizing them to speak.
Without the presidency, they can do two things:
1) pass pie-in-the-sky progressive laws to help push the overton window. These laws don't need to be practical, they just need to be red meat for the base (like the endless ACA repeal votes of yore).
2) Investigate errybody.
1) pass pie-in-the-sky progressive laws to help push the overton window. These laws don't need to be practical, they just need to be red meat for the base (like the endless ACA repeal votes of yore).
2) Investigate errybody.
They're gonna look forwards, not backwards. You don't want the extraordinarily talented people who are working very hard to keep Americans safe to suddenly feel like they have to spend all their time looking over their shoulders, after all.
they don't "need" to do much of anything. we've seen this movie before in 2006... you have control of the committees, the other side will bitch and moan without any alternatives, the politics work themselves out for the presidential election.
i mean, it's weird times so they may very well have to pull off a few stunts but i don't see the endgame in trying to nuke everything like with impeachment or whatever. it's just low hanging fruit that'll lead to nowhere, but again it's uncharted territory so who knows what'll pop up
i mean, it's weird times so they may very well have to pull off a few stunts but i don't see the endgame in trying to nuke everything like with impeachment or whatever. it's just low hanging fruit that'll lead to nowhere, but again it's uncharted territory so who knows what'll pop up
I hope all of this teaches Democrats, especially the fucking centrists, to never compromise with Republicans ever again.
A million times fucking this.
