I must admit I kind of wish he never made Common Sense so it wouldn't colour how I see Hardcore History.
Hardcore History | Recent release: Supernova In The East 3
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I haven't listened to it, but even just this first sentence you posted is terrible.
He doesn't even respond to the tweet. He just dances around it and talks about the label of conservative and liberal. So frustrating.
Honestly, I think a separate thread on just Common Sense would die quickly, and discussion would naturally come back here anyway.
You should check it out! Listen to it and then let me know if you still agree with your sentiment. I struggle to find what's so terrible about anything he's said on Common Sense this year.
Listening to the last episode and reading his Twitter (I am not sure what he said, during the BLM protests) it reads to me like he thinks the BLM riots are as bad as the storming of the Capitol and the extreme left, which I think hasn't that much to do with BLM and I don't like people conflating the two all the time, is a big of a threat to anything as the right.
He's definitely not saying they are as bad as one another. He does say they've both become mobs, whether intentional or not, and they both have resulted in violence, but he doesn't really speak ill of the intent of BLM. He mentions how those opportunists shouldn't reflect on the movement as a whole, but he also says that unfortunately to anybody that wants ammunition against BLM it does. He also talks about this Noam Chomsky idea of Antifa being a gift to the right, which is hard to disagree with. I also find it hard to disagree with him when he says that everyone needs to take a step back away from the edge, regardless of your side. He's right, there are no winners here, de-escalation is what we should be focusing on.
The problem here, is that ANTIFA is mainly manufactured, particularly in the US. You had worse spates of violence during the 60's civil rights movements.
Watts riots - Wikipedia
So it's hard to do a compare contrast to civil rights protests that spiral to some periodic spats of violence, which has happened literally all through out US history because the US is a fucked place, vs a coup attempt.
The reason why the association is contemptible is that it's basically the modern right wing playbook; if we do things that outwardly look bad its hard to convince people that it's not. Thus the play is whataboutism for them. Reverse racism, etc. It's not the idea of white supremacy that's the problem, it's identity politics and you guys wanting 'queer/black/latino supremacy' etc. We can't be seen as being against cheap/free healthcare, so you guys are socialists.
There's also the bigger issue that ultimately if there is a 'de-escalation' the overton window has shifted so far to the right (who's been extremely successful using these escalation tactics) that we fall back to the ongoing meme on the forum of a 'center' what exactly would that be?
The problem is the concept of everyone calming down ultimately places the blame on both sides. So sure, cops go murder someone and a starbucks window gets smashed in retaliaton. Not a good thing. But it's not in the universe of having the Vice President flee for his life in the middle of a session by mobs trying to kill him who killed a cop along the way. But we are back to people saying they are basically the same, making it sound sensible, and thus its ultimately a propaganda victory.
No direct knock on him btw, I actually popped into this post to find out the current podcast people are talking back to dive into one during my work day.
You're preaching to the choir here, I would never make the argument that the capitol riots are somehow equal to the BLM movement, and that the radical right isn't the problem (and neither does Dan) but I read this thread and then listened to the episode and it was like everyone in here was listening to something else. I don't think he's trying to paint BLM as being as bad as anything from the 60's, and he specifically mentions how bad things were in the 70's compared to now. In his most recent episode he reads from Nixon's memoirs where Nixon talks about some 40,000 bombings happening in one year. He says we aren't there yet but that is where things are headed.The problem here, is that ANTIFA is mainly manufactured, particularly in the US. You had worse spates of violence during the 60's civil rights movements.
Watts riots - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So it's hard to do a compare contrast to civil rights protests that spiral to some periodic spats of violence, which has happened literally all through out US history because the US is a fucked place, vs a coup attempt.
The reason why the association is contemptible is that it's basically the modern right wing playbook; if we do things that outwardly look bad its hard to convince people that it's not. Thus the play is whataboutism for them. Reverse racism, etc. It's not the idea of white supremacy that's the problem, it's identity politics and you guys wanting 'queer/black/latino supremacy' etc. We can't be seen as being against cheap/free healthcare, so you guys are socialists.
There's also the bigger issue that ultimately if there is a 'de-escalation' the overton window has shifted so far to the right (who's been extremely successful using these escalation tactics) that we fall back to the ongoing meme on the forum of a 'center' what exactly would that be?
The problem is the concept of everyone calming down ultimately places the blame on both sides. So sure, cops go murder someone and a starbucks window gets smashed in retaliaton. Not a good thing. But it's not in the universe of having the Vice President flee for his life in the middle of a session by mobs trying to kill him who killed a cop along the way. But we are back to people saying they are basically the same, making it sound sensible, and thus its ultimately a propaganda victory.
No direct knock on him btw, I actually popped into this post to find out the current podcast people are talking back to dive into one during my work day.
I'm with you, it sucks to say both sides are to blame, the right is so clearly escalating things to a whole new level, and the left is constantly scrambling to respond to the new levels of low that we're dragged into, but as long as the media and misinformation campaigning exists as they are, there is nothing the left can do that isn't going to be used as ammunition. So I have to agree with Dan on this one, for anything to heal we're going to have to suck it up and shake hands. It's corny, but we are in this together. We all need to learn how to have conversations with our countrymen on the right in the same way that we have conversations with our friends on the left. It's hard to disagree when you look through history and see all of the parallels with this moment and how they all ended, for me at least.
I am so so so so very sorry for bumping this thread. At least I have something good to share and not another shitty "both side" tweet from Dan.
Recently I discovered the following podcast and it's been able to scratch my Hardcore History itch.
)
www.iheart.com
Robert Evans was behind the wonderful, but chilling, "It Could Happen Here" podcast, calls a facist a facist, seems 30 steps lefter than Dan and is producing two to three hours of content a week.
Recently I discovered the following podcast and it's been able to scratch my Hardcore History itch.
Behind the Insurrections | iHeart
In the wake of the January 6th insurrection in D.C., Robert Evans and co-host Propaganda take a look at fascist insurrections throughout history. They also unpack the evolution, successes, and failures of antifascists in Italy, Germany, and Spain.
Robert Evans was behind the wonderful, but chilling, "It Could Happen Here" podcast, calls a facist a facist, seems 30 steps lefter than Dan and is producing two to three hours of content a week.
Yeah I gotta say I've pretty much completely fallen off Dan over the last two years-ish. For one, the "once a year maybe" release schedule sucks. And two, yeah, his both sides shit has really...infected how I view HH episodes now.
Oh well.
Supernova in the East 6 is out now. 5h 45m long and it's the last one in the series.
I just finished Supernova 5 and my god some of the events mentioned in it are absolutely terrifying. I try to imagine myself there when I read/listen to history and I think I would have been driven to insanity with some of the psychological tactics the Japanese military are employing, specifically the stuff they do at night time. At times it sounds like something out of a horror film.
I just finished Supernova 5 and my god some of the events mentioned in it are absolutely terrifying. I try to imagine myself there when I read/listen to history and I think I would have been driven to insanity with some of the psychological tactics the Japanese military are employing, specifically the stuff they do at night time. At times it sounds like something out of a horror film.
Woof, I have to relisten all the previous episodes too. I'm glad he's done with the series though, the first episode was promising but then I remember feeling it got bogged down in american politics and WWII minutia (though ep 5 was terrifying and amazing). I hope next one is a tad more removed from our time, preferably something from the ancient world (though hopefully not Alexander, once he gets to a full-blown series about Alexander I swear it will take him a decade to finish).
Just got to the Kamikaze part of the series and I was totally blown away. I had no idea that so many of those pilots were the liberals and intellectual college kids that were at odds with the military and yet were such fervent nationalists that it was an honor to die for their country, even if they disagreed with the war. These kids were going to be sent to die somewhere, but as a suicide pilot they would get a bump in rank (and money) and honored as heroes rather than dying somewhere in a random jungle.
Basically the military found a way to prune "undesirables" from their ranks.
Basically the military found a way to prune "undesirables" from their ranks.
Yeah, that was crazy!
Some of the vivid descriptions of the atrocities and violence in this episode were super hard to listen to, too.
Couldn't agree more. I haven't gotten all the way through the podcast (currently at the Tokyo firebombing campaign) but so far Carlin has done an excellent job of straddling the line between the atrocities were unnecessary and they were needed to save American lives. I also appreciate the perspective he gives on modern times judging these decisions.
Yes, although I was specifically thinking about what they did to that Filipino guy and his family.
Malcolm Gladwell also has a new book/audiobook out called The Bomber Mafia, which is all about Curtis LeMay, so I thought it would dovetail nicely with this series. He also did a few episodes of Revisionist History on that subject last season, as well. It's worth a listen.
Thanks for the suggestion!
I think it's completely lost on us just how horrible things were for our soldiers during WWII. That story was absolutely horrific. It went so far above war crime to just pure evil.
Highly recommend this one, especially in audiobook form. And it's not a retread of the Revisionist History piece either.
So, I just got the audiobook, and I must say I really appreciate how they made it work natively in podcast apps and how each chapter is an "episode." It makes it a lot easier to sneak in a chapter between shows.
In fact, Dan Carlin should consider doing this.
I've wanted Carlin to split up his giant episodes into logical chapters for years. It would make these 5 hour epics a lot less daunting and disruptive to my podcast schedule. I know I can do this myself, but it's hardly convenient.
Yeah, my feed always gets backed up (although it's enormously behind now, with no commute) whenever he drops an episode.
I was a little letdown on the final one. It dragged a bit, then felt like it ended abruptly.
I was just as surprised.
Listening to the new Hardcore History Addendum which is about Wargaming (EP14 The Game of War)
From the early board and figure days to modern PC gaming. Most of it is spent interviewing a game dev of a WW2 FPS called Hell Let Loose. It's pretty interesting as I'm sure many people here combine their love of history and gaming.
They also spend some time talking about how to handle the swastika and SS. The developer did not include those things like many game developers. However Dan argues whether it is right to remove such an important element if it only affects/upsets maybe 2-3% of the players (outside of the legal issues in Germany). He further says then maybe they should remove the NKVD or Hammer/Sickle as they were used to murder millions as well. The developer disagrees and thinks you can still have a game that focuses on the strategic element of the battles without delving deep into the political aspects of the conflict.
As one of the people that it does affect, I strongly disagree with Dan. I don't think he was advocating using the swastika but musing about it's historical significance and how leaving it out removes such a powerful, albeit evil, symbol. My issue is more with the nature of a FPS since you are assuming the role of the player. I don't have as much of an issue with somone playing a generic Russian or German soldier (although I won't), but I do have an issue if they were part of the SS or used Nazi imagery. I do think it helps to normalize those symbols which is obviously not something we ever want to do.
From the early board and figure days to modern PC gaming. Most of it is spent interviewing a game dev of a WW2 FPS called Hell Let Loose. It's pretty interesting as I'm sure many people here combine their love of history and gaming.
They also spend some time talking about how to handle the swastika and SS. The developer did not include those things like many game developers. However Dan argues whether it is right to remove such an important element if it only affects/upsets maybe 2-3% of the players (outside of the legal issues in Germany). He further says then maybe they should remove the NKVD or Hammer/Sickle as they were used to murder millions as well. The developer disagrees and thinks you can still have a game that focuses on the strategic element of the battles without delving deep into the political aspects of the conflict.
As one of the people that it does affect, I strongly disagree with Dan. I don't think he was advocating using the swastika but musing about it's historical significance and how leaving it out removes such a powerful, albeit evil, symbol. My issue is more with the nature of a FPS since you are assuming the role of the player. I don't have as much of an issue with somone playing a generic Russian or German soldier (although I won't), but I do have an issue if they were part of the SS or used Nazi imagery. I do think it helps to normalize those symbols which is obviously not something we ever want to do.
I think Dan was honestly in a place of not knowing the right answer regarding using SS, Swastikas or Nazi imagery.
I enjoyed the wargaming history portion of this episode much more than the FPS section, even though that was an interesting conversation.
From synopsis: "Are there any lessons to be learned?"
Something tells me this would be another Common Sense that would make me resent Dan even further.
I was prepared for some bad takes, but his conclusions seemed alright.
You can't build up a nation with your military, Afghan history and culture was completely ignored, the people who made catastrophic errors over last 2 decades mstayed in power instead of getting let go and why did it take so long to get visas to Afghan helpers.
You can't build up a nation with your military, Afghan history and culture was completely ignored, the people who made catastrophic errors over last 2 decades mstayed in power instead of getting let go and why did it take so long to get visas to Afghan helpers.
The bit in the beginning where he bitched about having to do a common sense episode turned me off.
Actually had some good points re: Afghanistan, and I learned some history about it. So a solid episode
-sigh- Dan's politics really are a bummer. I'm just waiting for him to cross a line that makes me not able to consume his media at all anymore.
I mean give him the benefit of the doubt. Could still be a great conversation. (I'm not of the belief that not platforming Musk will make him go away though so my opinion is probably not going to line up with everyone here…)
Wonder what it's about though
The guy isn't Hitler, he just has a bunch of bad opinions and shit takes. That said, not sure what he'd have to offer history-wise. I'd listen to a podcast with him talking about space though
As someone who started their podcast journey with Dan Carlin, I heartily recommend Mike Duncan's History of Rome followed by Robin Pearson's History of Byzantium.
Patrick Wyman's Tides of History and Mike Duncan's Revolutions are both great as well.
Haven't listened to Dan Carlin in years. Once it became clear that he was a little too 'centrist' for my tastes.
Patrick Wyman's Tides of History and Mike Duncan's Revolutions are both great as well.
Haven't listened to Dan Carlin in years. Once it became clear that he was a little too 'centrist' for my tastes.
I still like HH and I don't care about his political opinions when I listen to it, but I think Fall of Civilizations is better than all those (didn't listen to history of rome though) you mentioned (though the style of the "performance" might be a turn off for some).
Revolutions & Tides are nice but they sometimes fail to capture my interest and keep me at rapt attention. My mind sometimes wanders and that doesnt happen with Fall or HH.
If you want to start with Fall I recommended the Aztec or Sumerian episodes.
U basically recommended the two best history podcasters I subscribe to. Mike actually goes pretty deep into the social economic structure of communism and socialism while tackling various revolutionary incidents. And Patrick while covering mostly European history, really goes out of his way to provide global angles when he can. Recommend both over Dan. Dan is most popular sure but his style never really felt the best, I am not even talking about politics. He doesn't do history in a cohesively chronological manner.
His harm goes far beyond "bad opinions and shit takes".
Fall of Civilizations is a highlight of the internet for me, and I'd recommend the gorgeous YouTube videos put out for each podcast.
Love Carlin's work as well, whomever he decides to chat with.
Just quickly played some of the first episode of the Fall Of Civilisation's podcast and the host has such a monotone voice that I think it'd be really difficult for me to concentrate and focus on what's being said.
Quite a difference to Carlin, who I find interesting to listen to and generally switches his tone up enough to keep you listening.
The cinematography is great though. I think this is one to take in on YouTube rather than a podcast for me.
Quite a difference to Carlin, who I find interesting to listen to and generally switches his tone up enough to keep you listening.
The cinematography is great though. I think this is one to take in on YouTube rather than a podcast for me.
I've never actually tried that, but kinda defeats the purpose of a podcast. Always doing other shit when I listen.
If you think the Fall narrator has a monotone voice you gotta try Revolutions.
