Captjohnboyd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,569
Holy shit this thread is a mess. I'm having a hard time even reading the inane bullshit being spewed, I can't imagine how hard it is for y'all that are actually responding to these dolts. The bias is incredibly clear. Bending over backwards to "ask questions"
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,732
Earth
The main claim I see presented is the possibility that the involvement of Biden in the billion dollar aid in exchange of getting a prosecutor out of their job could be more than meets the eye. Again, he says plenty of times that there is no proof of wrongdoing, but I guess any developing story starts (or ends!) like that. His questions seem reasonable to me:

  • whether he claims any the emails or texts are fabricated (and, if so, which specific ones);
  • whether he knows if Hunter did indeed drop off laptops at the Delaware repair store;
  • whether Hunter ever asked him to meet with Burisma executives or whether he in fact did so;
  • whether Biden ever knew about business proposals in Ukraine or China being pursued by his son and brother in which Biden was a proposed participant and,
  • how Biden could justify expending so much energy as Vice President demanding that the Ukrainian General Prosecutor be fired, and why the replacement — Yuriy Lutsenko, someone who had no experience in law; was a crony of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko; and himself had a history of corruption allegations — was acceptable if Biden's goal really was to fight corruption in Ukraine rather than benefit Burisma or control Ukrainian internal affairs for some other objective.

1- asks about the veracity of the documents (Biden never denied or confirmed that)
2- asks about the origin of the documents (the laptop left in a repair store)
3- direct question about connections with Burisma
4- question about his involvement (or not) in business abroad (his article shows that Hunter could be using the Biden name as a way of boosting his chances in deals)
5- here is the main question, trying to dig deeper about the real reasons (if they are different than the presented) in the 1 billion dollar aid in exchange for changing a prosecutor for an inexperienced one

You are aware the prosecutor thing was a international thing right and not just Biden?

Not even going to entertain this. Even Trump trying to get the Justice Department to investigate it came up empty.
 

Captjohnboyd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,569
You are aware the prosecutor thing was a international thing right and not just Biden?

Not even going to entertain this. Even Trump trying to get the Justice Department to investigate it came up empty.
Yes they're aware. They just don't care about facts and journalistic integrity. That gets in the way of asking questions about the Biden family corruption.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,732
Earth
Holy shit this thread is a mess. I'm having a hard time even reading the inane bullshit being spewed, I can't imagine how hard it is for y'all that are actually responding to these dolts. The bias is incredibly clear. Bending over backwards to "ask questions"

Im very patient lol.

Admittedly part of me actually enjoys the back and forth.
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
"Many here are just like Trumpers"

Seriously?
100%. Being from Latin America I can see that many here are 'very progressive and left leaning' but there is this point where they will go back and start repeating CNN talking points about stuff related to South America. (see the Bolivia coup thread, as an example)

So you admit that its a fishing expedition to find dirt?
And admit that, that it is a good thing to be doing?

Honestly I am not sure it is enough evidence to demand answers directly from Biden. The main point of his argumentation is that the media didn't even try to investigate it and worked to bury it all the time, which seemed reasonable to me.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,732
Earth
100%. Being from Latin America I can see that many here are 'very progressive and left leaning' but there is this point where they will go back and start repeating CNN talking points about stuff related to South America. (see the Bolivia coup thread, as an example)



Honestly I am not sure it is enough evidence to demand answers directly from Biden. The main point of his argumentation is that the media didn't even try to investigate it and worked to bury it all the time, which seemed reasonable to me.

They did and concluded that they would not run the story due to their inability to verify the claims.

A perfect example is how Fox puts it on their late night opinion shows but leaves it out of the news.

You're way off base here.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,937
100%. Being from Latin America I can see that many here are 'very progressive and left leaning' but there is this point where they will go back and start repeating CNN talking points about stuff related to South America. (see the Bolivia coup thread, as an example)



Honestly I am not sure it is enough evidence to demand answers directly from Biden. The main point of his argumentation is that the media didn't even try to investigate it and worked to bury it all the time, which seemed reasonable to me.

So there is not enough evidence to demand answers but the media should go fishing.

And you think that is journalism.
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,391
I looked at all the articles written by Greenwald in the Intercept in 2020. In an election year involving perhaps the most corrupt and incompetent president ever, he doesn't write one article critical of Trump. His articles slightly critical of the GOP seem to be a way to take a dig at the democrats (ex: military spending approved by the house). He has many articles about the biased liberal medias, but doesn't seem to be interested in Fox News and the likes.

Looking at this, you'd say "okay, no bid deal, the guy's just an hardcore conservative". But we know it's not the case. He's written many articles about socialism in Bolivia lately. So you can think "okay, he's just really against US foreign policy", which is fair. But at the same time, he seems to have major blind spots when it doesn't involve the US and more specifically the Democrats.

And from the emails exchange with his editors, he seems really distraught that Biden is about to win and that he won't get the chance to play a part in possibly avoiding that.

So what's his deal? Simply pathological contrarian?
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,406
also imo i think it's good that an outlet is "in the tank" for the candidate who says "we should do literally anything about the pandemic that has claimed a quarter of a million american lives" instead of the one saying "we're officially giving up on doing anything about the pandemic that has claimed a quarter of a million american lives"
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
Smh at this thread. All I'll say for now is that some ppl posting here badly need a crash course in critical thinking, journalistic ethics, and public responsibility.

Or even just watch All the President's Men. Jfc
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,853
Sorry for rambling, I'm just concerned about repercussions in Brazil. Unfortunately my country is really dependent on US politics... the US is always meddling in our affairs, and the asshole that is president in Brazil put a chain on his own neck and gave the key to Trump, destroying many years of work that presidents Lula and Dilma did to distance Brazil from the US.
Shit like this needs to change and unfortunately neither major party in the US is currently interested in it, nor is the general public. Genuine US foreign policy change feels hopeless and from that perspective I can kinda understand the aimless and spiteful "Just burn it down" ideology of Greenwald.
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
You are aware the prosecutor thing was a international thing right and not just Biden?

Not even going to entertain this. Even Trump trying to get the Justice Department to investigate it came up empty.

Yes I know it wasn't a Biden-only thing. I find it extremely hard to believe that the USA is worried about corruption in other countries, though. Which is something Glenn writes in his piece:

"Biden's brief was to sweet-talk and jawbone Poroshenko into making reforms that Ukraine's Western benefactors wanted to see as," wrote the Washington Post's Glenn Kessler in what the Post calls a "fact-check." Kessler also endorsed the key defense of Biden: that the firing of Shokhin was bad for Burima, not good for it. "The United States viewed [Shokhin] as ineffective and beholden to Poroshenko and Ukraine's corrupt oligarchs. In particular, Shokin had failed to pursue an investigation of the founder of Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky," Kessler claims.

But that claim does not even pass the laugh test. The U.S. and its European allies are not opposed to corruption by their puppet regimes. They are allies with the most corrupt regimes on the planet, from Riyadh to Cairo, and always have been. Since when does the U.S. devote itself to ensuring good government in the nations it is trying to control? If anything, allowing corruption to flourish has been a key tool in enabling the U.S. to exert power in other countries and to open up their markets to U.S. companies.

Beyond that, if increasing prosecutorial independence and strengthening anti-corruption vigilance were really Biden's goal in working to demand the firing of the Ukrainian chief prosecutor, why would the successor to Shokhin, Yuriy Lutsenko, possibly be acceptable? Lutsenko, after all, had "no legal background as general prosecutor," was principally known only as a lackey of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, was forced in 2009 to "resign as interior minister after being detained by police at Frankfurt airport for being drunk and disorderly," and "was subsequently jailed for embezzlement and abuse of office, though his defenders said the sentence was politically motivated."

Is it remotely convincing to you that Biden would have accepted someone like Lutsenko if his motive really were to fortify anti-corruption prosecutions in Ukraine? Yet that's exactly what Biden did: he personally told Poroshenko that Lutsenko was an acceptable alternative and promptly released the $1 billion after his appointment was announced. Whatever Biden's motive was in using his power as U.S. Vice President to change the prosecutor in Ukraine, his acceptance of someone like Lutsenko strongly suggests that combatting Ukrainian corruption was not it.
(I am sorry about the long quote, the article is poorly written and overextends every single argument presented... reason why it needed more editing).
 

Doc Holliday

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,041
100%. Being from Latin America I can see that many here are 'very progressive and left leaning' but there is this point where they will go back and start repeating CNN talking points about stuff related to South America. (see the Bolivia coup thread, as an example)



Honestly I am not sure it is enough evidence to demand answers directly from Biden. The main point of his argumentation is that the media didn't even try to investigate it and worked to bury it all the time, which seemed reasonable to me.

they did investigate and decided it wasn't credible. If this story had any validity why would a newspaper not print It?

If it's credible it would be a huge story for the newspaper.

they hate Trump? no...Trump is the greatest thing that ever happened to the newspaper industry. Shit, Trump probably saved a few newspapers by himself.

It's a bullshit story and any reporter with worth his salt wouldn't put his name on it.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,476
also imo i think it's good that an outlet is "in the tank" for the candidate who says "we should do literally anything about the pandemic that has claimed a quarter of a million american lives" instead of the one saying "we're officially giving up on doing anything about the pandemic that has claimed a quarter of a million american lives"

nah you don't get it true ethical journalism must always present both sides of every argument as valid alternatives and has no responsibility to not be a mouthpiece for obvious disinformation
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,781
It's just... So startling.

Greenwald would call someone like my dad a filthy neoliberal. An immigrant who opposed the Iraq War from day 1 and moved from the Republican Party to the Democrats over their hatred of immigrants.

And here I find out Greenwald supported the Iraq War and spoke about undocumented immigrants with a vile contempt that would almost make Trump blush.

This is part of the reason why older members of the left, from the blogosphere days, were never comfortable w/ Glenn being hailed as this hero of the Left, even after the Snowden thing, especially when in the latter Obama years, and through Trump, doubled down on the whole "censorship is coming from The Left & Right" BS, all while also showing up on Tucker Carlson, but if you tried to push back against him, a younger group of leftists, until recently, replied with, "but he's a hero who exposed the military industrial complex, and you just hate him because he talks about Obama's drone strikes, and plus he has a gay boyfriend in Brazil. Obviously, he has a plan for why he's showing up on Fox News all the time."

In reality, deep down, Glenn's a weirdo free speech gay paleocon who might've been moved to the left by his younger boyfriend, but still has a seething hatred for the Democratic Establishment For Reasons, so that affects his politics. As I've pointed out before, I'm sure there are Brazillians who live in America, hate Trump, are voting for Biden, but would go to great lengths to explain to you how Lula was corrupt so it's OK Bolsanaro is in charge now.

In a slightly different alternative reality, where Gore wins in 2000, Glenn's a little known libertarian lawyer who occasionally writes columns for Reason.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,342
Honestly I am not sure it is enough evidence to demand answers directly from Biden. The main point of his argumentation is that the media didn't even try to investigate it and worked to bury it all the time, which seemed reasonable to me.
Again, they did. We literally had a months-long congressional investigation(Trump's impeachment) that involved sworn testimony about the allegations of improprieties about Burisma(Republicans made damn sure to hit every witness with them). That got wall to wall coverage. Then the Justice Department attempted to look into it and came up empty. Then Rudy peddled his bullshit about the laptop and places like the WSJ(linked in this thread) attempted to corroborate the allegations and couldn't.

But The Intercept is censoring for not agreeing to print those same uncorroborated accusations as compelling evidence of impropriety and conspiracy? lol

I get what you are trying to do in categorizing those you disagree with by assigning them to an out-group you can disavow, but you are almost entirely wrong on the facts here and in that are completely out of the ballpark in terms of getting the context right.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,415
Pennsylvania
QjxpdjA.png
Lol poetry
 

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member
Just saw this story...smh. And all over some bullshit about Hunter Biden: a line of attack that hasn't stuck, isn't sticking, and won't stick in the next few days.

Greenwald couldn't have, I dunno...waited a week? Instead he's putting his family's livelihood in jeopardy so he can go full Fox-Contributor-style nutjob.
 

Heruderu

Member
Oct 29, 2017
694
Shit like this needs to change and unfortunately neither major party in the US is currently interested in it, nor is the general public. Genuine US foreign policy change feels hopeless and from that perspective I can kinda understand the aimless and spiteful "Just burn it down" ideology of Greenwald.
Yeah, I have no hopes Biden is going to change their foreign policy in regards to the way they treat Latin America. I only think Trump is worse for Brazil because a win for him will strengthen the far-right that's already grown too much with the creature that was elected our president, which uses Trump as a guide and supports every fucking thing he says.

So even if Biden is still a shit result for a non-american, supporting fake news and inhumane treatment of the American people in a pandemic the way Trump does is too, too far. Very disappointing what Glenn is doing.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
100%. Being from Latin America I can see that many here are 'very progressive and left leaning' but there is this point where they will go back and start repeating CNN talking points about stuff related to South America. (see the Bolivia coup thread, as an example)



Honestly I am not sure it is enough evidence to demand answers directly from Biden. The main point of his argumentation is that the media didn't even try to investigate it and worked to bury it all the time, which seemed reasonable to me.
Oh wow.

"CNN talking points" ? What kind of warped view do you have of this community?
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,342
This is part of the reason why older members of the left, from the blogosphere, were never comfortable w/ Glenn being hailed as this hero of the Left, especially when in the latter Obama years, and through Trump, doubled down on the whole "censorship is coming from The Left & Right" BS, all while also showing up on Tucker Carlson, but if you tried to push back against him, a younger group of leftists, until recently, replied with, "but he's a hero who exposed the military industrial complex, and you just hate him because he talks about Obama's drone strikes, and plus he has a gay boyfriend in Brazil. Obviously, he has a plan for why he's showing up on Fox News all the time."

In reality, deep down, Glenn's a weirdo free speech gay paleocon who might've been moved to the left by his younger boyfriend, but still has a seething hatred for the Democratic Establishment For Reasons, so that affects his politics. As I've pointed out before, I'm sure there are Brazillians who live in America, hate Trump, are voting for Biden, but would go to great lengths to explain to you how Lula was corrupt so it's OK Bolsanaro is in charge now.
This is that "hero"

Current illegal immigration – whereby unmanageably endless hordes of people pour over the border in numbers far too large to assimilate, and who consequently have no need, motivation or ability to assimilate – renders impossible the preservation of any national identity. That is so for reasons having nothing whatever to do with the skin color or origin of the immigrants and everything to do with the fact that what we end up with are segregated groups of people with allegiences to their enclaves, an inability to communicate, cultural perspectives incompatible with prevailing American culture, and absolutely nothing to bind them in any way to what we know as the United States.


Such an enlightened man standing for the dignity of racists and human rights....Just not brown people that would threaten America's precious white national identity.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,476
Just saw this story...smh. And all over some bullshit about Hunter Biden: a line of attack that hasn't stuck, isn't sticking, and won't stick in the next few days.

Greenwald couldn't have, I dunno...waited a week? Instead he's putting his family's livelihood in jeopardy so he can go full Fox-Contributor-style nutjob.

That's the most bizarre part. If it's about "ethics in political journalism", can it not wait until after the election? Does he not realize what he is doing is directly playing into Trump supporters' hands? If it's an issue of ethics, and according to his article this has been a grievance of his for years, there isn't an urgency to this that can't wait 4 more days. The election is more important than him. The only explanations are that he has either completely lost the plot or wants Trump to win.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Here in Brazil we are praying so fucking much for a Biden win that I believe we watched and commented the debates more than you guys.
Trump is a Bolsonaro enabler.

This forum has a Latin America problem, but sure as all fuck in hell voting for Biden isn't it.
 

RedVejigante

Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,990
Just had some rando on Facebook try to convince me that "leftist cancel culture" has apparantly exceeded the radicalism of the right by linking to Joe Rogan's podcast with Greenwald. Needless to say, I wasnt convinced
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,342
Just had some rando on Facebook try to convince me that "leftist cancel culture" has apparantly exceeded the radicalism of the right by linking to Joe Rogan's podcast with Greenwald. Needless to say, I wasnt convinced
I mean get back to me when leftist cancel culture(which basically amounts to getting Tylenol ads off fascist shows, asking for correct pronouns to be used out of respect, and getting people's accounts nuked or Yelp bombed, all things the right attempts) starts literally taking away woman's rights, voter's rights, immigration rights, and begins tacitly endorsing sects that advocate a white ethno-state.

People like that have to be so brain-warped to not see the absurdity of statements like that.
 

RedVejigante

Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,990
I mean get back to me when leftist cancel culture(which basically amounts to getting Tylenol ads off fascist shows, asking for correct pronouns to be used out of respect, and getting people's accounts nuked or Yelp bombed, all things the right attempts) starts literally taking away woman's rights, voter's rights, immigration rights, and begins tacitly endorsing sects that advocate a white ethno-state.
We literally just had a foiled right wing plot to kidnap and execute a democratic politician but apparantly its deciding not to support problematic people with your own money that is the real danger....
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,415
Pennsylvania
they did investigate and decided it wasn't credible. If this story had any validity why would a newspaper not print It?

If it's credible it would be a huge story for the newspaper.

they hate Trump? no...Trump is the greatest thing that ever happened to the newspaper industry. Shit, Trump probably saved a few newspapers by himself.

It's a bullshit story and any reporter with worth his salt wouldn't put his name on it.
The media also want it to be a horse race right now so if they thought the laptop had any cred to it they would have ran the shit out of it for days.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,406
it got kind of quiet itt after daddy tucker said to stop talking about hunter biden.

 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
74,054
I am not saying we need to keep asking the same question "did Biden do anything?" I'm saying we were right to ask that question when the information first came out. At this point we have nothing to show he did anything wrong. But it's good that it was pursued and I'm glad some journalists did instead of everyone trying to brush it under the rug because it was inconvenient.

I'm sorry if my posts have implied anything like "we need to keep asking what Joe Biden did wrong here" because unless new evidence surfaces, the answer seems to be "nothing"

Proper journalism is to vet the story before publishing not after genius
 
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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
74,054
Honestly I am not sure it is enough evidence to demand answers directly from Biden. The main point of his argumentation is that the media didn't even try to investigate it and worked to bury it all the time, which seemed reasonable to me.

Wait

You understand the media generally is supposed to investigate before publishing unless they're Glenn Greenwald I guess right?

Like that is what vetting a story is

Shit Greenwald bitched, inaccurately, in defense of Trump, about the media running stories via anonymous sources about Trump, and whined that those stories should not run... but then turns around and whines that this obvious bullshit should be reported on without vetting first.
 

Dever

Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,493
ABC reporting there's an active FBI investigation into Hunter.

abc3340.com

DOJ official confirms FBI 2019 criminal investigation into Hunter Biden, still active

WASHINGTON (SBG) - A justice department official has confirmed to Sinclair Broadcast Group that the FBI opened up a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden and his associates back in 2019, focused on allegations of money-laundering and that the probe remains active. Sinclair investigative...
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,714
ABC reporting there's an active FBI investigation into Hunter.

abc3340.com

DOJ official confirms FBI 2019 criminal investigation into Hunter Biden, still active

WASHINGTON (SBG) - A justice department official has confirmed to Sinclair Broadcast Group that the FBI opened up a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden and his associates back in 2019, focused on allegations of money-laundering and that the probe remains active. Sinclair investigative...

no that's that Sinclair bullshit DoJ leak. That's not ABC btw. That's a local affiliate owned by Sinclair broadcasting.

 

Distantmantra

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,746
Seattle
ABC reporting there's an active FBI investigation into Hunter.

abc3340.com

DOJ official confirms FBI 2019 criminal investigation into Hunter Biden, still active

WASHINGTON (SBG) - A justice department official has confirmed to Sinclair Broadcast Group that the FBI opened up a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden and his associates back in 2019, focused on allegations of money-laundering and that the probe remains active. Sinclair investigative...

And of course you posted NOT ABC News, but instead a Sinclair owned station.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
19,016
ABC reporting there's an active FBI investigation into Hunter.

abc3340.com

DOJ official confirms FBI 2019 criminal investigation into Hunter Biden, still active

WASHINGTON (SBG) - A justice department official has confirmed to Sinclair Broadcast Group that the FBI opened up a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden and his associates back in 2019, focused on allegations of money-laundering and that the probe remains active. Sinclair investigative...

ABC? Or Sinclair Broadcasting Group?
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,714
Hmm alright, I just saw it on Twitter lol. Guess it's up to someone from DOJ/FBI to deny what Sinclair/Tony Bobulinski is putting out, then.
Why would they? It's likely true. Trump was soliciting foreign governments to create a sham investigation into Hunter Biden and got impeached for it. You can expect his DoJ was actively trying as well.
It loses veracity when you get into details that the basis is not credible.
I mean their primary source they do reveal even says he got the evidence because Trump was impeached over it. The guy is a Trump hack, and the only other person to publicly say anything corroborating is a GOP operative that's a trump supporter as well.