Oct 31, 2017
14,991
I think that RPGs and the definition of RPGs and also whether or not FFVIIR is character-action forward or not is a more nuanced discussion that you're giving it credit for. Before you come out with the "narrow minded" comments, let's recall your "the orchestral music in FFVIIR is a mistake" topic followed by your "the orchestral music in FFVIIR is wonderful" the following day. Who knows, maybe you'll wake up tomorrow and think "ok, I disagree, I think he's wrong, but maybe I could see where he's coming from". I'll bank on that for now.

Except you're wrong, period. It doesn't have to be turn-based to be a JRPG. It has all the systems in place that one would expect from an RPG, just in real-time (I hate that I even have to say this, as if real-time equals not an RPG). It was made in Japan. It's a JRPG.
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
By that definition, Football Manager is one of the deepest RPGs in the industry.

Please tell me what RPG elements previous FF games have that VIIR doesn't outside of being turn-based. Please. Because VIIR even has ATB (but again, you don't have to be turn based to be an RPG).

Not sure why I'm wasting my time because you'd probably light yourself on fire before admitting anything
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever™
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,909
Please tell me what RPG elements previous FF games have that VIIR doesn't outside of being turn-based. Please. Because VIIR even has ATB (but again, you don't have to be turn based to be an RPG).

Not sure why I'm wasting my time because you'd probably light yourself on fire before admitting anything
I consider it to be a character-action game with RPG elements. I think a more challenging thing would be if you would respond with a concise definition of what an RPG is, and then we'll really get into the weeds. But again, I think we're spinning the tires on this discussion, and more than anything else, I've accomplished little more than derailing the thread with my initial comment - which sucks. I'll leave it at that, and say that I'm wrong so we can all move forward. Deal?
 

Refrain

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,948
Can we please not talk about JRPG? It doesn't have anything to do with the topic
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,666
By that definition, Football Manager is one of the deepest RPGs in the industry.
I just wouldn't bother honestly we've had this thread on era multiple times and some people just don't get it.
Let them recommend Nioh, Ys, and other worthless suggestion to people searching for another JRPG to play.
I mean what a worthless genre label to use JRPG to mean as just RPG made in Japan. *facepalm* Might as well just recommend "videogame" cause that's almost as descriptive.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,434
Fantastic! By far one of the best games I've ever played and now I finally see the appeal of Final Fantasy in general. FFXV was my first mainline game and made me hate the series lol.

I get what people are saying though. It does not feel like a JRPG to someone like me who generally doesn't really get into the genre (despite many attempts). It exists between genres taking the best of their elements
 

SgtCobra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,873
Can anyone tell me what a JRPG is then

Before you come out with the "narrow minded" comments, let's recall your "the orchestral music in FFVIIR is a mistake" topic followed by your "the orchestral music in FFVIIR is wonderful" the following day. Who knows, maybe you'll wake up tomorrow and think "ok, I disagree, I think he's wrong, but maybe I could see where he's coming from". I'll bank on that for now.
Damn. You really pulled that card huh lol
 
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Deleted member 179

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,548
How the hell is this a character action game, hell I'd argue it IS a turn based RPG that wants to look like an action game
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,206
If you define roley-playing by HAVING to have freedom about all aspects of character creation (looks, personality traits through actions you take, stats to the finer details) and some level of choice over how the story progresses, sure JRPGs are pretty light on the role-playing aspects, but there's some dungeon cralwer RPG geneology in JRPGs when it comes to the combat side of things.

FFVII Remake is more RPG than many JRPGs with the freedom/choice that the materia system, weapon differences & other equipment gives character builds, stuff that doesn't necessarily exist even in a lot of other FF games (that are mostly just "get to new town -> buy new, stronger equipment to replace the old ones and become stronger"). There are even story choices that affect how some (minor) stuff progresses!

But yeah, these aren't RPGs in the sense that Dungeon & Dragon (inspired) video games are RPGs where you get to define your characters in more varied ways outside of just combat, I'm not gonna argue with that.

Yeah, while I think JRPG's have their own unique qualities that some want to define as a roleplaying game, I've personally always considered role playing to have nothing to do with stats, or battle systems but more specifically allowing you the player the ability to act and interact with the world and its people in the game the way you choose for them to be. Good, bad, or somewhere in between. So branching dialogue trees, npc's and a narrative that react to your choices.

I think the reason why RPG's have become such an umbrella term today is because of technological limitations at the start of the role playing video game. FF was built to be as much of a D&D experience as they could make. Western designers took a different approach. However through the years these mechanics they created became the staple of how we now see JRPGs today, which itself is always still evolving. So I don't personally see them as role playing experiences, but I still call them RPGs, because that their own style.

As for FF7R, I'm only on chapter 9, but I don't feel like I've had a lot of choices, at least ones that matter? Are there more?
 

Swift_Gamer

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
3,701
Rio de Janeiro
I think that RPGs and the definition of RPGs and also whether or not FFVIIR is character-action forward or not is a more nuanced discussion that you're giving it credit for. Before you come out with the "narrow minded" comments, let's recall your "the orchestral music in FFVIIR is a mistake" topic followed by your "the orchestral music in FFVIIR is wonderful" the following day. Who knows, maybe you'll wake up tomorrow and think "ok, I disagree, I think he's wrong, but maybe I could see where he's coming from". I'll bank on that for now.
Nah, I'll never see where you coming from and nobody you agree with you. The game is a JRPG.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,446
Lmao, I find it hilarious that someone would get really anal about what makes a game "JRPG" to exclude FF7r from the genre while being so open about what makes a game "character-action" in order to fit FF7r there.
 
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sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
jrpgs are like porn, you know it when you see it.
 

Deleted member 12833

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
10,078
I consider it to be a character-action game with RPG elements. I think a more challenging thing would be if you would respond with a concise definition of what an RPG is, and then we'll really get into the weeds. But again, I think we're spinning the tires on this discussion, and more than anything else, I've accomplished little more than derailing the thread with my initial comment - which sucks. I'll leave it at that, and say that I'm wrong so we can all move forward. Deal?
It's no less an rpg than the original.
Lmao, I find it hilarious that someone would get really anal about what makes a game "JRPG" to exclude FF7r from the genre while being so open about what makes a game "character-action" in order to put FF7r there.
Also this lol
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,213
Kind of disappointing. Was hoping it would be easily the best seller.
Tbh. It is just one part of a 3-4 part series. It isn't even the full game.

At least that is how I see it (someone who had never played the original and won't buy until all come out). I imagine there are others like me? Maybe so, maybe not?
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,545
I can't believe we're in 2020 and we're still arguing what is a jrpg. But anyway I will be able to play this game this evening since I'm off on Friday and I'm going to enjoy this game for myself.
 
Nov 4, 2017
480

PLEASE NOTE:
These are player count estimates based on data of millions of PSN accounts, but the data does not cover the entire userbase and thus should be taken as estimate and not as fact, also PLAYERS =/= SALES, although at launch its likely that the numbers of players and sales align closely with one another. The reason why I am posting about this is because Gamstat is based on legitimate data from PSN, unlike other websites (They are also the ones who leaked Resident Evil 3 Remake showing up on PSN).

Now onto the figures:

EVtHjLTXQAEFV2p.jpg:large


With these numbers, FFVII Remake is currently performing twice as fast as Final Fantasy XV (on PS4) was at the same time period and has 500k more players than Kingdom Hearts 3 (on PS4) did at the same time as well (note that KH3 launched early in Japan and thus its nubmers are not exactly representing 3 day tracking)

Final Fantasy VII Remake has the third most players for 3 day trackign period for PS4 exclusives, only behind God of War (2.4M) and Spider-Man (3M).

Also should be mentioned that the game has been sold in apparently extremely limited physical supply in many places, which might have hurt the potential sales on launch.

Share by region:

unknown.png
About South Africa:
many people are still on limited internet plans (sometimes even with fibre to the home...), and shops are closed due to Covid... not sure that's really representative then.
 

Zelus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
990
Well it is the most begged for remake of all time.

I wont how the other parts will compare player numbers wise. I hope it's just 3 parts. 4 would really push players patience and get people really sick of the VII universe.
I don't see how they can do it in 3 (or even 4) parts since Midgar is just the beginning of the original name. The original game is absolutely massive.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
I don't see how they can do it in 3 (or even 4) parts since Midgar is just the beginning of the original name. The original game is absolutely massive.
I actually have a lot more faith in it. The first part's game design is very obviously affected by the limitations of this gen. So much of it is claustrophobic. Next gen should be able to open up stuff for us.

The only problem I see is consistency of quality. Some chapters look like a subpar game while others look next gen.
 

Zelus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
990
I actually have a lot more faith in it. The first part's game design is very obviously affected by the limitations of this gen. So much of it is claustrophobic. Next gen should be able to open up stuff for us.

The only problem I see is consistency of quality. Some chapters look like a subpar game while others look next gen.
Well, I guess my question is how would you be able to create the same level of quality for the other areas? Not so much from a technical standpoint but from a development standpoint. Midgar's something like 10% of the original game and yet it's a full blown 30+ hour game? How long is the rest of the game going to be with the same level of quality? 400+ hours? That'd be insane.
 

KernelC

alt account
Banned
Aug 28, 2019
3,561
Tbh. It is just one part of a 3-4 part series. It isn't even the full game.

At least that is how I see it (someone who had never played the original and won't buy until all come out). I imagine there are others like me? Maybe so, maybe not?
I think that statement shows you haven't played the Remake. It's NOT a bad thing that you are waiting for it all to come out, or just waiting for a price drop, but the game being divided in multiple parts is absolutely not what you are thinking - it's closer to saying, each part is a Harry Potter book or movie, than each part being like Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 1 and part 2 films.
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
I actually have a lot more faith in it. The first part's game design is very obviously affected by the limitations of this gen. So much of it is claustrophobic. Next gen should be able to open up stuff for us.

The only problem I see is consistency of quality. Some chapters look like a subpar game while others look next gen.
Also with the twist
they can cut some parts or change them
 

Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,717
I actually have a lot more faith in it. The first part's game design is very obviously affected by the limitations of this gen. So much of it is claustrophobic. Next gen should be able to open up stuff for us.

The only problem I see is consistency of quality. Some chapters look like a subpar game while others look next gen.
Well hopefully for part 3 and forward if that's the case but I believe part 2 will still be on the PS4.
 

The Masked Mufti

The Wise Ones
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,989
Scotland
Jesus I'm surprised by how popular this game is, especially considering that the people who played it in the 90s aren't the majority of current gamers.

Starting to think I might need to play it. I'm just put off with how much filler content is in this, from what I've been told.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
Well, I guess my question is how would you be able to create the same level of quality for the other areas? Not so much from a technical standpoint but from a development standpoint. Midgar's something like 10% of the original game and yet it's a full blown 30+ hour game? How long is the rest of the game going to be with the same level of quality? 400+ hours? That'd be insane.
I think they'll make it a lot easier to progress the story. The original game was still kinda linear despite having a world map. Midgar benefits from having a lot of story exposition and stuff happening consecutively within the city within a small span of time. Midgar has always been ripe for expanding lore since it was the start and center of everything that happens in the game. The other places in FF7 are mostly just places where they pass through after a short time in there.

Also with the twist
they can cut some parts or change them
True. Some stuff from Crisis Core is even present in the game so who knows if they'll add Genesis or something.
Well hopefully for part 3 and forward if that's the case but I believe part 2 will still be on the PS4.
I don't think that's the case if we're estimating at least a three year gap between releases. PS4 would long have been left behind by then. A year or two max from now and I can still entertain the possibility of it releasing for the PS4.
 

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,316
Square really went above and beyond with this game.. even with the sky high expectations they delivered in spades.

Well deserved sales.
 

Deleted member 11421

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,935
Well, I guess my question is how would you be able to create the same level of quality for the other areas? Not so much from a technical standpoint but from a development standpoint. Midgar's something like 10% of the original game and yet it's a full blown 30+ hour game? How long is the rest of the game going to be with the same level of quality? 400+ hours? That'd be insane.

Midgar was also roughly 1/3 of the main narrative and if you cut out "world map traversal" and keep the linear chapter system there isn't a need for more than 1-2 more games to tell this new tale they've spun from my perspective.

I feel like they only did things to this extent because they confined themselves to Midgar and felt it was iconic enough to deserve that treatment. A lot of the other locations were extremely brisk in the original, and I don't see many necessary expansions for the majority of towns outside of a few sidequests and cutscene additions.
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,362
A timed exclusive in a list of "exclusive games sold"? Good numbers though. Wonder where the recent Call of Duty Remastered would be with units moved, too.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,283
Washington
Yea hope they don't milk it to much, but I dont have alot of faith when the first is very linear. To be honest I'm a massive fan of FF7 but if the next part is linear then I wont buy it. I can forgive the first part kinda as it's based in just midgar but if the next is the same then fuck it.

To be fair, the original game was very linear while you were in Midgard. I'm not really sure home they would make this portion open world and feel like even a remake of the original. Already it's a lot more open feeling than the original.