there's a few other spots it could go ... and there's "more to come" .... what do you think guys? Could it be there?
From Software Development & Speculation - Everything we know about their current projects
- Thread starter Mifec
- Start date
I appreciate this post and your pressence here. its something I've talked about myself before but you have a bit more authority and eloquence than I do on the subject.
Thank you :)
On a side note, i'm very curious to see how the Elden Ring effects the open world as you progress through it, and with the actions you and others take. As it's still most likely effecting and changing things even as your playing. Maybe an NPC, or organization you are working with does something that causes it to react in an unpredictable way, affecting that group, or area in the open world.
That Griffith panel and whole scene never ceases to amaze me in all its variations. It feels like a pinnacle moment of dark fantasy for me, not in its the best thing ever or anything, but it combines emotional elements over the dark horror in the background in one layered piece, converging all the character plot arcs around Griffith's own trauma.
People were really losing their minds with pre-release footage of DS2, the time of downgrade-gates and other shit gamers would be the most mad about. DS3's cut bonfire mechanic, the mention of Umbasa in the alpha never being a thing in Bloodborne , and permament NPC deaths in Sekiro being cut shows some examples of major changes to their games. I think they reached a point where Fromsoft and Miyazaki want to have a more complete look into their game when they are truly ready.
I still find it amazing that the bonfire mechanic in DS3 made it all the way to the release of the cinematic trailer a month before the release of the game if I'm not mistaken. It must have been pretty far into development at the time, probably further than what was found in the alpha test files.
they could certainly take the sense of scale or scope of land integrity. It would be a welcome feature too. As for the rest,they are aimed for a story driven rpg and not such as a combat driven
Darklurker. Fuck the entire Chasm of the Abyss, I hate everything about it.
That, and the twin cats at the end of Frozen Outskirts. DS2 is the only game in the series where I have gotten so frustrated that I just said fuck it and judged that the reward for enduring something was not worth the frustration it would take to beat it.
I know this suggestion has been made several million times in this thread already, but still...
You guys should play Hollow Knight.
You guys should play Hollow Knight.
to be fair to FromSoft fans, this is to be expected...any developer knows that any screenshot or gameplay video will be dissected and over-analyzed (same with really popular TV shows like Game of Thrones)...it's par for the course...I think most developers understand this and have fun with it...there are a few individuals who take it way too seriously though...analyzing something even if it ends up being wrong is part of the fun of speculating...it's the very nature and definition of the word 'speculation'
some people take it way too serious, as if guessing incorrectly is this major end of the world deal...some people need to relax...guessing about release dates, gameplay etc is all in good fun and some peeps are too uptight about it
Honestly, I don't begrudge anyone being upset about the changes to Dark Souls 2's visuals, it as a major change and an unfortunate one and I don't think that the way it was handled with the marketing was very good either. But it's just one of those things (as are the rest of the listed examples) that are just the realities of game development. Things are subject to change and change all the time, I think some people have the idea that games are made in a linear fashion where developers have an idea and then they work on it and then it's done, but it's an iterative process.
You have ideas and things that you want to do, you narrow those things down based off of things like time allocated and budget and then you start working on implementing and bringing those ideas to life, and during that process you may realize that "Hey, this great idea maybe isn't so great after all" or the direction shifts and the idea that may still be a good idea no longer fits with your other ideas and it has to get scrapped, other times you find new things and ideas through that iteration and experimentation.
But the thing that a lot of people don't really seem to understand when it comes to cut content or changes is that these things happen for a reason and its usually for the betterment of the final product. Sekiro's Dragonrot killing NPC mechanic is a perfect example, I get that people feel dissatisfied with the way Dragonrot currently exists in the game as it lacks any real consequences or teeth and is more of an annoyance than anything, I get it.
That being said, there exists a version of Sekiro that was a good bit more punishing than what the game released as, which also included this mechanic. For those of us who are less "Skillfully gifted" think about all the deaths you've already suffered throughout Sekiro, especially during boss fights where you could be encountering dozens of deaths, while also dealing with other punishing mechanics like Dragonblood Stagnation which was a version of Unseen Aid that would punish you even further rather than helping and healing was less generous in that version than it is now. Having to micromanage the fact that you could be wiping out all of the NPCs in your game on top of that might be fun for more hardcore players, but it wouldn't be for a large swathe of others. They playtested these things and turns out, it wasn't fun so they were changed or removed (which again, goes back into the fact that they do genuinely care about fairly balancing difficulty and players in general).
Dragonrot becoming a toothless and kind of boring mechanic is a side effect of that, but again, that's just the reality game development. People see stuff in pre release footage or stuff that never got scrubbed from the in game files and decide that the game that exists in their head would've been much better than the game they got, but the reality is, they tried it and decided that the game you got is in fact the better version, for this reason, that reason or whatever.
But to loop back around into the current situation. I do think it's a bit of a blessing in disguise for them to have spent the last year silent, both for them and for players and while I have no doubt that plenty of people will complain that they didn't get X,Y or Z once Lance and other modders start going through the files and revealing some of the content that got cut, that sort of stuff reaches a lot less people so it's less of an issue. But when you have official footage showing off things that may not exist in a year or look very different then people start to complain and get upset, whether that be gameplay systems and UI or literal bricks and puddles. The longer they go without showing the game the further they advance to the development finish line and when you do eventually end up seeing the game, what you'll be seeing will be more closely representative of the final product which I think is what's best for everyone.
And for me personally it's part of why I largely avoid getting too into the specifics of a lot of things, especially regarding anything systems related. I can talk about the overall direction and the core pillars of the games design as those things will stay fairly consistent and locked in, but when it comes to systems those things are changing and being iterated on frequently (as illustrated above). I'm responsible for what I post here and everything I say, so if I say "This is this" and then it isn't, then I'm responsible for that and I do care about having integrity and accurately representing things the best I can, while also staying as respectful as I can of the game and the people working on it.
So if you(as in this general thread) ask me a question about something specific and I avoid it, chances are it's because it violates one or both of the above.
sorry for the long winded rant
Yes I read it maybe not several million times but a few thousands for sure.
What is so special about that game ?
Honestly looking at screenshots/ gameplay really dont seem something comparable with souls or something that can catch my interest . I can understand Blasphemous or Salt and sanctuary comparison due to the similar atmosphere , but why Hollow knight ? Looks like " A bug's life : the game " to me.
If rewarding exploration, melancholic atmosphere, souls-style lore and character quest delivery all sound like a good time and what you look for in a Souls game, then trust me, Hollow Knight is not only a game for you, but it's the closest a game will feel to truly capturing what makes these games special. And it's not even exactly trying to be "a Soulslike", it's simply a metroidvania, but it captures the feel more than the specifics.
I didn't like the look that much from screenshots, but playing it is something else. Superb animation work.
There are SO MANY secrets, and more importantly, so many mysteries. You start the game and very very early on you'll see an ominous building with some huge "thing" inside with a curious looking design, and you'll keep wondering what it does. There's a locked door near the hub, and you can't wait to get the key. You have constant goals and reasons to check back on the characters, shops and hubs that aren't simply "gotta beat the game". It's always there in the back of your head, teasing you and leading you to plenty of different places.
The world is so diverse and connected in brilliant ways, that even being a 2D Metroidvania with a functional map, I still got surprised a few times by some of the connections. There's a ton of freedom in the order you do your exploration, and you're always rewarded with story, equipment and bosses no matter where you go.
It's without a doubt the number one game I'll always recommend whenever a fan of From's games ask me for something that gives them a similar in style, but also in quality, experience.
I'm not yet done with my first playthrough, but 27 hours into it and this is very likely the best experience I've had when it comes to exploration and discovery since my first playthrough of Dark Souls 1.
I can't guarantee you'll enjoy it, a lot of Souls fans also end up disliking Hollow Knight, but I can guarantee that, if it clicks for you, it'll blow you away. It's a game you're either indifferent to, or you love. So I'd say it's a game every From fan really should play.
Very clear post.
Can you reassure us that the things you told us in your posts are still there and we are still getting the game you described ?
Imagine if Dragonrot actually killed off NPCs. LMAO that'd be so evil.
Salt and Sanctuary is the only true 2D Souls-like though. Criminally underrated game.
It's not a Souls-like, but it does have some inspiration from Souls, check Gbraga's post above. It's one of the best Metroidvanias ever made.
Salt and Sanctuary is the only true 2D Souls-like though. Criminally underrated game.
27 hours ?? I thought it was a 5 /6 hours game!
Thanks for your explanation, made me want to give it a chance
Those are all generally core pillars of the games design so yes, those things haven't changed, it's more smaller stuff that I haven't talked about that have changed throughout development, such as systems and other specifics. Like I said, I try to only talk about stuff that I can pretty much "promise" while avoiding the things that I can't. I will occasionally drop specifics here or there, like the thing about dogs and wolves (which isn't really a big deal and yeah like the meme, it's a From game, of course it has dogs and wolves) and there's another subtle hint I made in the thread a while back that I don't know many people picked up on but generally if I'm going to talk about something, it's going to be something that sticks and I can't think of anything in my posts that has changed.
Hollow Knight can be longer than that and I'd even say 27 hours is on the shorter end of the scale, I suppose depending on your skill level and how much you choose to explore, I've seen it be around 40 hours for most people, others more, especially after the free DLC content updates that added a fairly substantial amount of content despite being free. The amount of content in the game as well as its consistent quality are pretty astounding tbh. It's an incredible game and I'm very much looking forward to Silksong. 100% gets my seal of recommendation and I'd definitely say it's up there for my favorite games of all time.
I still really want to play it, I'll eventually get to it. It definitely seems underrated, and I was already a fan of The Dishwasher, so I have faith in Ska Studios.
The game is pretty huge. 6 hours into it you're not even scratching the surface. I'm 27 hours into it and I'm still missing core mechanics. The controls screen tell me how to use a button that I currently can't, because I don't have the skill yet.
It's HUGE.
Nameless King, Midir, Laurence
Well there is a lot of reasons why I didn't beat them, first From's optional bosses are always stronger than the main bosses and require more SL level (From tends to not hold on on these bosses since they're optional) , and I'm always play under level in From games, even in Sekiro beat the game with like 3-4 Memories in my Inventory, in Souls game I tend to not upgarde my wepaons only untill the final area, so in my mind I know I'm going to beat them if I came back with higher SL level/upgraded wepaons, so I move on and even when at correct level I've never looked back (expect Midir, when I encountered him I was like "yeahhh a dragon boss fight, I will come back later *finger crossed* )
But to be honest, I've never felt like a bad thing, it's good to have unfinished business to justify another walkthrough =p.
Even in Bloodborne, chairs supposed to be the the checkpoint mechanic in the game rather than lamps, Hunter will sit and take a nap to travel to the Hunter's Dream (makew senses lore-wise)
I heard a lot of the game when first released on the PC, as big fan of Metroidvania genre was so excited when they announced the Switch version, bought when it launched, spent over 20 hours in the game and one day I find myself stopped playing the game, although never had other games to pull my attention from the game and Swtich portability nature, but I've realized I'm no longer enjoying the game and I don't want to force myself to finsh it.
The things I really enjoyed and loved about the game was the combat, the Knight control and runs well, bosses battles are fun and challenging (somehow reminds of me Mega Man series) liked the atmosphere, areas art diversity not so much, the music was great and fit the mood, but for the Metroidvania aspect....not really well designed game.
I appreciate the response Omni, the realities of game dev are never clean cut as some would think. Sekiro's death penalties were always worked on and even in interviews they talked about tweaking it with the resurrection mechanic in mind. It turned out the way it did but i think even when it wasn't the best solution it was valuable experience for them if they want to go back to the well or make another action game with that feedback in mind. Some people take a shine to the first prototype of an idea and get disappointed when they get something different later.
Don't really care for the old graphics talk, as i think they have transitioned into that with superior art-direction , performance with PC and next gen should be pretty good. I think a lot of jp devs got that art-direction going for them instead of the most cutting edge hair physics tech from nvidea and other promotional things like that that SE likes to do. I don't care about visiting that xenoblade de thread about resolutions when the art-direction of that game is unparalleled, no game offers so few invisible walls and explorability and it did that during the wii-era. I know what From is good at and i don't think they'd ever go for those kind of level designs on that scale, Monolith soft are good at that thing and Fromsoft has other qualitites.
Don't ever dream too high in the sky with expectations folks, judge them by their previous output.
Don't really care for the old graphics talk, as i think they have transitioned into that with superior art-direction , performance with PC and next gen should be pretty good. I think a lot of jp devs got that art-direction going for them instead of the most cutting edge hair physics tech from nvidea and other promotional things like that that SE likes to do. I don't care about visiting that xenoblade de thread about resolutions when the art-direction of that game is unparalleled, no game offers so few invisible walls and explorability and it did that during the wii-era. I know what From is good at and i don't think they'd ever go for those kind of level designs on that scale, Monolith soft are good at that thing and Fromsoft has other qualitites.
Don't ever dream too high in the sky with expectations folks, judge them by their previous output.
I definitely feel like it'll end up in my top 10 as well.
Weeb confession time: That would probably make it the only game not made in Japan on such a list.
I respect your opinion, but not well designed sounds crazy to me. There's so much thought put into this game, the level design is honestly brilliant.
I wish Prosthetics and Combat Arts in Sekiro were as intuitive to use as Charms and abilities in Hollow Knight, to be honest. That's what I'm constantly reminded of whenever I intuitively feel like trying a different charm combination against a specific challenge.
I won't say that the prosthetics and combat arts in Sekiro are useless, as I use them all the time, but their use in my playthroughs is a lot more optimized, it comes from me knowing exactly what to do, and usually stunlocking the boss in the process. The optimal strategy to beat a boss in Sekiro is very rarely just mashing R1 and then L1 when you get parried, but it's still how the vast majority of players beat most of the game on their third playthrough, because using the mechanics just isn't very intuitive.
Honestly, in terms of Hollow Knight, I am always confused by people saying it isn't a Souls like and just a Metroidvania. It's lore is opaque and rewarding for those who look for it; the characters are mysterious and are as important to the story as the player wants them to be; the world is vast and not all of it needs to be explored to complete the game; the combat is very much skill based and rewards those who become better at it and learning enemy behaviors; the death penalty is very similar to Dark Souls; the music for certain characters and bosses help convey something we don't rightly see outright about those characters; the list goes on. Really, the only things that Hollow Knight doesn't have that say S&S has are the covenants, individual stats, and weapons and armor (though you have those badges which fulfills some of the roles armor and weapons would do) for further player variety.
Furthermore, and this is my opinion, Dark Souls is very much a metroidvania game that uses keys and golden fog gates instead of learned skills to bar players from further exploring those areas. Yes there isn't new skills like double jump, but there are other artificial items that bar you from reaching those areas and are opened up upon receiving said item.
Overall, it is a great game and whether or not you think of Hollowknight as a Soulslike or a Metroidvania, you should owe to yourself to play it. It was my favorite game of 2018 by far.
Furthermore, and this is my opinion, Dark Souls is very much a metroidvania game that uses keys and golden fog gates instead of learned skills to bar players from further exploring those areas. Yes there isn't new skills like double jump, but there are other artificial items that bar you from reaching those areas and are opened up upon receiving said item.
Overall, it is a great game and whether or not you think of Hollowknight as a Soulslike or a Metroidvania, you should owe to yourself to play it. It was my favorite game of 2018 by far.
I see some people annoyed at the progression in prosthetic upgrades and how it zig-zags around with needing upgrades from different tools. I recognized that this was so that players wouldn't just upgrade their first tool they liked fully and never use another one, but it can lead to some frustrated players who didn't see the use of the umbrella or any other tool at first. With enemy specific counters with speficic tools it's never guranteed that every player will pick up on match-ups like that, unless maybe a tooltip just says which one works best against which enemy. The upgrade path, working as the way to force diverse tool use ended up frustrating players who want to play it their way, and experimentation with the tools feels discouraging as it uses emblems that don't automatically replenish and need farming at some point. For certain players running out of a resource and having to farm it to even try to experiment is just anxiety inducing. Having a minimum amount of resources after death would have helped.
Good to hear that !
Uhm.... subtle hint 🤔 dragons... wildlife... Time to re- read all your posts from May 2019 till now I guess ! XD
It's a 2017 game, isn't it? Or is 2018 the Switch release?
Anyway, I agree with you, but the thing is that a game can be everything you just described, and still be a first person shooter. Or a grid-based tactical RPG.
I do believe that, if we're talking about genres, we should stick to more obvious mechanical similarities than tenuous elements. But that also depends on whether you personally consider "Soulslike" to be a subgenre of Action RPG or just a term to describe games that are like Souls. So I believe that's part of the confusion.
My biggest issue with the prosthetic upgrade system is that Sekiro is a game in desperate need of more meaningful loot. They have meaningful loot already designed and implemented in the form of the upgraded prosthetics. Just let us find that shit. Require having the first one in order to use any of the more advanced ones, but other than that, you just find the prosthetic and you can use it. They're not nearly powerful enough to be locked behind the tedious upgrade path.
Base Firecrackers are still way stronger than the best spear. Enemies don't have enough health in this game for minute differences between prosthetic tiers to be that relevant. It's not important if someone finds the Lazulite Shuriken before the first spinny one. It really doesn't change anything other than making the loot feel more special.
It was a 2017 game, but I played it in 2018 haha.
At the moment, the games I am putting in my favorite gaming experiences this year came out years before. Conan Exiles provided my friends and me tons of hour of quality content and was loving every minute of it, and this is coming from a guy who does not typically like the more hardcore survival games.
And yeah, Soulslike is really just a word for older style games honestly. However, if we are looking at Soulslike as games like souls, there are some strong similarity between the two titles. I also agree with your comment about it being attached to any type of game regardless of genre. I was just talking about Hollow Knight and how there are a lot of people who outright say they do not have any similarities other than some minor gameplay similarities, which I obviously don't believe at all haha.
I'm 50+ hours in still no 100% but yeah Hollow Knight is pretty famous and mainstream right now.
Disclaimer: These are my own personal opinions and a lot of you already know I have, uh, not the most agreeable of opinions when it comes to subjective tastes on pretty much anything, so I can't promise that your opinions will line up with mine.
But unless for some hypothetical inexplicable reason the game were to completely change while in development to something unrecognizable to what it is in it's current form then I'd say yes. It would be pretty difficult for it not to be, I said it in my original hype post from a year ago but as a fan of From's work as well as GRRM it's essentially a dream game an a lot of the elements that exist in the game (mainly the ones I've outlined in my posts) are pretty much all I ever could've wanted in a From ARPG and more.
I also love myself a good medieval fantasy setting and both From and GRRM have made my favorites, so having them come together to create a new one is pretty incredible and not something I would've ever expected to see myself. So for me it's very much a dream come true.
That being said there are still things I'd like for them to improve on and or iterate on in similar future titles, or at the very least some ideas I feel could be explored more substantially but that can be saved for sequels or spiritual successors. But at its core this is really everything I could want from a game like this and I hope that when the game either gets shown or is in the hands of people that others start to see and feel what I feel about the game.
I also think it may have sort of contributed to my lack of excitement regarding the more immediate future of gaming as a whole as between this and Cyberpunk 2077 there are very few "dream" games left for me to really be excited about and spend years dreaming about. I'm very much looking forward to NMH3, the next mainline Nier title and the next Final Fantasy as well as HK silksong, Diablo 4 but aside from that I'm largely
Though I suppose I could add "Near perfect warhammer 40k game with a high budget" to the list. Halo Infinite has the potential to be one of those games for me too, but we'll wait until July to see how that goes. Absolutely love Halo CE as an all time fave game as well but Halo hasn't been that since, well, CE and I'm not a huge fan of 343's output thus far. I guess that cancelled Diablo 3rd person ARPG could've been pretty badass too, but unless it gets revived that's gone the way of Starcraft Ghost.
The spear can be used to drag out the centipedes in certain enemies like the ape for extra damage. I don't think the game is a big enough for tool upgrades to be a satifying thing to work towards, different main weapons as things to gather would bring some variety into the game and it would be worthwhile loot and the game would have to be bigger than it was for that. What they gave is a sword for the main combat with sub-items in the form of tools in the prosthetic. Collecting unique items wasn't one of the main goals of Sekiro, they made a single player action game with checkpoints and elements of the souls games like it's difficulty.
One thing that held true throughout Fromsofts' games is that coming in hot with pre-conceived notions of what their games are and play like quickly will land you on your ass. I know of a podcast that wanted to do a souls-like level by level deep-dive into Sekiro and it simply is not the same thing and before that they made fun of any comment of Fromsoft that it wouldn't be the same thing as a souls game and more like a single player action game. They ended up not doing that for Sekiro. For Elden Ring Fromsoft made the rpg elements a major bullet point and the Dark Souls connection is more explicit in its DNA so no worries there.
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27 hours is nothing, this is my blind game, with everything the completed game has to offer (questline, dlcs, charms, bosses).
And yes, the best thing about Hollow Knight is exploration, the biggest satisfaction in the game is finding a new area, especially when it's hidden. Personally the bosses are not a big deal, but they are still challenging, especially the DLCs, three in particular are made for you to take up all possible defensive and offensive mechanics.
This is personal opinion, but for me it is a much better game than Blasphemous.
Hey, good job! Did this include the Pantheon of Hallownest? I didn't played the game but my friend told me that it's the most challenging thing he did in a game for the past 10 years27 hours is nothing, this is my blind game, with everything the completed game has to offer (questline, dlcs, charms, bosses).
And yes, the best thing about Hollow Knight is exploration, the biggest satisfaction in the game is finding a new area, especially when it's hidden. Personally the bosses are not a big deal, but they are still challenging, especially the DLCs, three in particular are made for you to take up all possible defensive and offensive mechanics.
This is personal opinion, but for me it is a much better game than Blasphemous.
Oh yes, it was hell. It is a bossrush, there are three pantheons with 10 bosses that includes a totally new one at the end, they are not usually very complicated with the exception of the last one. After completing these three you unlock the Pantheon of Hallownest which is basically the other three together plus a new boss (Must be one of the most hated bosses in history lol) and new ending, 53 continuous bosses, you die once and start all over again. This is why a lot of the fanbase, especially the one that is most interested in the game's lore, was quite upset and asking for a patch or something to adjust the difficulty, which they never changed because for the developers it was the final challenge of the game and that the ending had to be impossible because it made more sense with the story they wanted to make.
i don't think the quality of the character writing and interaction are tied to the political nature of the game. Everything after disco sound extremely gamey in their dialogues and RP options.
27 hours is nothing, this is my blind game, with everything the completed game has to offer (questline, dlcs, charms, bosses).
And yes, the best thing about Hollow Knight is exploration, the biggest satisfaction in the game is finding a new area, especially when it's hidden. Personally the bosses are not a big deal, but they are still challenging, especially the DLCs, three in particular are made for you to take up all possible defensive and offensive mechanics.
This is personal opinion, but for me it is a much better game than Blasphemous.
It is objectively better than Blasphemous in many aspects. Some people might like Blasphemous religious and supernatural lore and setting better and that's understandable. But HK has hands down better gameplay mechanics,a better designed and interconnected world (although I liked Blasphemous world a lot too) and in general is a well more polished and tight game experience. I like HK music better too,although this still comes to taste
Hollow Knight is the best 2D metroidvania I remember since a long time. Salt and Sanctuary comes second for me,although I can admit that Salt and Sanctuary is the closest 2D soulsborne so far,the similarities with souls are way bigger with S&S than HK. Blapshemous comes third and imagine I liked it a lot,left some things to be desired though in the gameplay department . Still gotta play Death's Gambit ,which looks pretty cool
I'll get truly excited for this when it is shown that weapon classes/types have more varied movesets than just the two archetypes in DS3 that most weapons rolled with. This was less of an issue with heavy weapons but single handed weapons really felt less interesting to me because they just felt so copy pasted with only minor variations. And dont get me started on weapons arts....never have I been so excited and so disappointed at the same time when it became clear From just reused the same two weapon arts across entire base game weapon categories, save for boss weapons. Worse was short swords and great swords having to share the same "stance" weapon art.
But this is me speaking from a "dream Fromsoft game" aspect. At the end off the day I still very much appreciate the fact that we get weapons with varied movesets and unique special at all even if they copy/paste most of them. This is one of the aspects of Souls games that feels so intrinsic to the experience that I never see other devs that emulate these types of games take to heart. The only game that reached(or maybe even surpassed) From on this was Salt and Sanctuary which coincidentally is the only game that I have ever played which nailed the same energy as a Souls game.
Hopefully on the second.
Not a chance on the third. We already know there are no township NPCs so unless you want to have one way conversation with a random skellington you meet in the world I dont think we'll get that same level of interaction as in those games.
But Im sure there will still be NPCs to meet still in typical Fromsoft style. I hope they get the VA who voiced Sir Vilhelm back again. My god the man had the most amazing deep voice in a videogame ever! I want a Sir Vilhelm and Eygon of Carim Epic "deep voice" rap battle.
But this is me speaking from a "dream Fromsoft game" aspect. At the end off the day I still very much appreciate the fact that we get weapons with varied movesets and unique special at all even if they copy/paste most of them. This is one of the aspects of Souls games that feels so intrinsic to the experience that I never see other devs that emulate these types of games take to heart. The only game that reached(or maybe even surpassed) From on this was Salt and Sanctuary which coincidentally is the only game that I have ever played which nailed the same energy as a Souls game.
Yes on the first.
Hopefully on the second.
Not a chance on the third. We already know there are no township NPCs so unless you want to have one way conversation with a random skellington you meet in the world I dont think we'll get that same level of interaction as in those games.
But Im sure there will still be NPCs to meet still in typical Fromsoft style. I hope they get the VA who voiced Sir Vilhelm back again. My god the man had the most amazing deep voice in a videogame ever! I want a Sir Vilhelm and Eygon of Carim Epic "deep voice" rap battle.
I'm hoping for really strong character creation. I have no concerns about the gameplay and new world being nothing short of amazing but I am shallow and I want my character to be beautiful. Also hoping for more fashion than ever before.
Wow, that's awesome. You and the others on this thread just motivated me to play the game. I will start tonight probably
That is really good to hear, even if your opinon and tastes doesn't end up being the same as ours. I'd guess that your previous fave FromSoft game was DS1 or maybe Bloodborne, based on how you talked about those before?Disclaimer: These are my own personal opinions and a lot of you already know I have, uh, not the most agreeable of opinions when it comes to subjective tastes on pretty much anything, so I can't promise that your opinions will line up with mine.
But unless for some hypothetical inexplicable reason the game were to completely change while in development to something unrecognizable to what it is in it's current form then I'd say yes. It would be pretty difficult for it not to be, I said it in my original hype post from a year ago but as a fan of From's work as well as GRRM it's essentially a dream game an a lot of the elements that exist in the game (mainly the ones I've outlined in my posts) are pretty much all I ever could've wanted in a From ARPG and more.
I also love myself a good medieval fantasy setting and both From and GRRM have made my favorites, so having them come together to create a new one is pretty incredible and not something I would've ever expected to see myself. So for me it's very much a dream come true.
That being said there are still things I'd like for them to improve on and or iterate on in similar future titles, or at the very least some ideas I feel could be explored more substantially but that can be saved for sequels or spiritual successors. But at its core this is really everything I could want from a game like this and I hope that when the game either gets shown or is in the hands of people that others start to see and feel what I feel about the game.
I also think it may have sort of contributed to my lack of excitement regarding the more immediate future of gaming as a whole as between this and Cyberpunk 2077 there are very few "dream" games left for me to really be excited about and spend years dreaming about. I'm very much looking forward to NMH3, the next mainline Nier title and the next Final Fantasy as well as HK silksong, Diablo 4 but aside from that I'm largely
Though I suppose I could add "Near perfect warhammer 40k game with a high budget" to the list. Halo Infinite has the potential to be one of those games for me too, but we'll wait until July to see how that goes. Absolutely love Halo CE as an all time fave game as well but Halo hasn't been that since, well, CE and I'm not a huge fan of 343's output thus far. I guess that cancelled Diablo 3rd person ARPG could've been pretty badass too, but unless it gets revived that's gone the way of Starcraft Ghost.
Mann i'm really looking foward to finding secret and ominous areas like Ash Lake in Elden Ring (that you don't need to get teleported too after a cutscene)... descending through giant tree roots, getting to the base and entering an area with colossal archtrees and a sinister soundtrack that plays specifically for that area and then finding one of the Everlasting Dragons that was mentioned in the open cinematic is still stuck with me as one of the best gaming and fantasy moments i've ever experienced.
Id say DS3 is my favorite mixed with DS, depends on the day but I like them for different reasons.
DS3 is incredibly refined and I think it's From's peak in terms of raw boss and level design (doesn't mean interconnected level design). But I like that DS1 is more of a sombre journey and feels like more of an RPG than DS3 does if that makes sense. I think that DS3 (and really all games post DS2) have streamlined a bit too many of the edges that DS1 had that I think added to the overall experience and that the games don't feel the same without them (I like DS1 curse and I'm proud).
But honestly I'd say that DS1,3,BB and Sekiro are all on the same level of quality but they all have things they excel at where other games are weaker at, the only one I'm not a huge fan of is DS2 for a number of reasons but I still like the game more than most games.
As much as I love DS3 and it's easily my favorite gameplay-wise, I do feel like you have a point with the streamlining there. It's been for the better in most places, but a few things just don't feel the same. The FP system is alright for Weapon Arts, but binding magic to it with almost no ways to regenerate FP save for Ashen Estus for like 60% of the game (until you get the Giant's Coal for Simple Infusions) felt like magic got really toned down and made more of a side option than a main one- even more so than in past games.
Exploration, though, is the biggest one on my eyes. I've never quite felt that dread of exploring in DS1 in the other games. Bonfires are all pretty generously paced, to a point where you kind of develop a feeling for when the next one should be popping up- especially Sekiro is a game where I felt this was the case, though it might just be because I've played several Souls games so far already, and make a point of learning about every nook and cranny I can find in them. But DS1 always, always, feels daunting to me somehow. No matter how far off the path I decide I want to go, none of the games will let me go off the path quite as far as DS1 in some places. That's both a bad and good thing in some ways, since some DS1 areas are just big without too much of interest in them (Izalith's lava lake, for example), but even after several playthroughs of DS1 I can still get lost trying to find the right path in Blighttown, particularly when I'm trying to find certain items. I don't know if that's a sign of improved/less obtuse level design (maybe it is- screw those ''slippery'' moving wooden beams in Blighttown, I hope they all burn in hell) or if I'm just not familiar enough with the game, but DS1 just feels bigger. For better or worse. I always feel the scale of the environment much more in that game than I do anywhere in DS3, save for the Dreg Heap and the Ringed City, which felt like returns to form with how well the shortcuts looped back onto the main path.
This is articulated so perfectly that I kept jumping to the reply button to scream "YES!" before reading through fully.
Hollow Knight won't appeal to everyone's tastes, but it pressed so many buttons for me as someone who likes the following about the best of the Souls games: the rich, sombre atmosphere; hidden NPCs with elaborate, cryptic agendas; a world steeped in mystery and melancholy; beautifully written, often poetic prose and flavour text; and an overall elegance to the storytelling and presentation, which never feels overbearing or on-the-nose.
The fact that it's made by less than a handful of people continually astonishes me.
Wow, now that you mention it, yes! It really is :D
People already managed to have civil discourse about the inclusion of TW3-esque NPCs. No need to shit on the opinions of others.
Exactly! And it's the kind of detail that is really easy to come off as a cynical retreading, right? Like, you see this kind of dialogue and you instantly think "they're trying so hard to feel like Souls", but that's not the case at all with Hollow Knight. It feels honest, the characters are all so endearing, too, in some ways going beyond what From Software usually does. Just tiny touches like the fact that Zote thinks the exact same things he says to you just add so much to the world and characters. It's wonderful.
Everything really feels extremely elegant, that's a perfect word for it.
But at the same time, it's just such a good videogame ass videogame. There are sooooooooo many enemy types, and they're all so much fun to fight! I'm constantly impressed by the ever evolving roster whenever I reach a new area. I'm currently having a blast fighting the Deepnest bugs. Can't wait to find this area's boss. The previous one I did was ML, and WHAT A FIGHT.
And yes, it really blows my mind whenever I think about the team size. I can't even imagine what the future holds for them, especially now that Hollow Knight's success likely gave them a finantial security they couldn't dream of during Hollow Knight's development. They can just do whatever they want now.
I 100% agree as well as just having stuff like punishing status effects or just filling the world with weird shit like moving trees with snake arms and giant cheshire cats that have been taking lessons from Sonic. I missed going places and feeling lost and just thinking 'Where the hell am I? What the fuck is that running around just off in the distance? Even stuff like having to walk through New Londo Ruins while you get harassed by ghosts that float and hit you through walls while you try to escape on narrow walkways, in the dark where the wrong step can lead to you instantly drowning while you can't actually hit the ghosts back unless you use the transient curse, and it doesn't end there, you actually get to drain the whole area of water, only to reveal the 2nd half of the level where you descend into the depths to face off against life stealing wraiths only to descend further into a boss fight in the dark that you can't actually even fight, unless you go back to another area that has 2 entrances with two different challenges to enter and kill a boss to get an item that makes sure you don't drown in literal darkness. Whereas in pretty much every game afterwards it's just "Alright well, go here, keep walking, eventually you'll get to the boss, kill it and move on". There's nothing inherently wrong with that but it's just not the same, I miss the weird, esoteric, obtuse stuff that has you running around the entire game and getting intimately familiar with it and encountering weird shit on the way.
Admittedly it's the one I've spent the least time with so, I don't really have any extensive thoughts. It's got an ethereal quality to it that I appreciate and I like that there was a lot of experimentation and weirdness in terms of its design in really all aspects, from its gimmick bosses to its levels and overall visual design as well as being ballsy enough to implement something like world tendency and I sort of wish From had been as adventurous on later titles but I can also appreciate the value of refinement and iteration. But I definitely do miss From's willingness to implement weird and obtuse things. Not to say they don't at all but, it's definitely lessened over time.
This pretty much sums up why I have a hard time choosing a favorite between DS1 and 3: the memories of the journey through that game and it's odd and unexpected moments are very special. But... the epic and cinematic but tough as nails boss fights in 3, and the way my character's cape flutters in the breeze while looking out at a majestic vista I am about to explore are pretty special too.
I also think that the obtuseness and oddness is still there, but we are just more used to it/know the patterns/capabilities of Dark Souls enemies: when I played through it with a totally new player, they found the game to be often unfair and cryptic. I hope with Elden Ring that from keeps much of what they have refined by DS3, but uses this as an opportunity to be able to surprise us again.
I'm curious about the online elements this game may have. Are we seeing phantoms of active players in the world, blood stains hinting of danger in the area etc...? Is there a summon mechanic and is there a "hollowing" effect that needs reversing to do some co-op or trigger special missable invasions? I would be pumped if they bring back messages. I love a good troll or well placed joke. Oh and did the legacy of Moonlight whatever and "Patches" end with Sekiro or y'all think they will show up again?