Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,659
We really have no idea. He's registered Republican but he's also only 20 so who the hell knows he might have just been doing as his family does. People need to get more info before they start boasting that he was conservative. We need to see his posts on socials before we know anything imo.
 

Muu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,133
I disagree. They're donezo without Trump. They'd be trying to both solve the name recognition problem that's also a huge issue in trying to swap Biden plus lose at least 5% of the base who literally only care about Trump now

It gives all the moderate republicans and independents cover, and a rallying cry. And a political martyr. An assassination would 100% unify the Republican Party.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,336
Good morning!

Happy Sunday!

*scans the last few pages*

So, let me get this gay...A Republican shoots at the Republican presumptive nominee, and it's Democrats that are fi--

Actually, no...I haven't had my bacon yet.

Yes, because apparently calling Trump a threat to democracy (an actual fact) is so bad its radicalizing republicans to political violence. I called this shit yesterday, the media is going to say 'Dems need to stop saying such bad things about Trump." When all those bad things are 100% factual. And you know what? There's a good chance they will do it because "we go high" right?
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,166
Liberals: I don't understand how fascism is taking over.

Also liberals: You can only fight fascism once they're physically carrying you away to the camps, otherwise you're just as bad as them.

Every single time.

Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder does a good job explaining this mindset (for some historical perspective).
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,457
We really have no idea. He's registered Republican but he's also only 20 so who the hell knows he might have just been doing as his family does. People need to get more info before they start boasting that he was conservative. We need to see his posts on socials before we know anything imo.
Registered as Republican is all that's really needed to control the message, it doesn't really matter how conservative he was. By the most official declaration, it was one of Trump's own who did it.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
35,479
We really have no idea. He's registered Republican but he's also only 20 so who the hell knows he might have just been doing as his family does. People need to get more info before they start boasting that he was conservative. We need to see his posts on socials before we know anything imo.
These sorts of people want others to know why they did it. They always write a manifesto of some kind. It'll be insane nonsense, but will at least give everyone an idea of wtf is going on.
 

ironichaos

Member
Oct 31, 2017
682
Trump opened that can of worms, and I hope people don't forget it. The extreme rhetoric around him is entirely his doing.

Let's not forget this man enabled someone to feel he should send pipe bombs to all of his political enemies just from the first year of him being in office, that at least three far right extremists groups thought they were given the greenlight to storm the capitol and potentially kill members of the United States government, and that one man died mid social media post attacking an FBI building because Trump weaponized a visit to pick up documents he hoarded, which he later said was a visit that had "death squads" ready to kill him. He's the one that had lawyers argue on his behalf that he can assassinate political opponents and that he will go after all of his enemies. He has called for the jailing of journalists, preparing for a yes man army to take over the government, and wants to shoot protestors. Talking about any of those is "extreme rhetoric" but it all comes from him, from his ambitions, and from his own words.

Donald Trump alone has been the one throwing gasoline on the fire because he bathes in this type of arena. It's all he knows and does. Thinking about it honestly, it's crazy to me that this scale of attack has only happened once, nearly nine years in with this rhetoric and egging on. Think of all of the chaos this man has produced and only on the third go around at him running for office violence comes his way. He has always spoken in ways that promote violence, and that violence has always been presented to his political enemies. This marks the first time someone, potentially from his own political party, took it out on him. The chickens have quite literally come home to roost: an authoritarian who speaks nothing but chaos, disarray, and division is now suffering some consequences of that rhetoric, and like everything else with this monster it's to his benefit in the end somehow.

Assassination attempts like this never, ever go well, regardless if they're successful or not. You'd be a fucking idiot wishing otherwise. One would be a fool to resort to physical violence in general but especially here, as it only ever benefits a fascist. It reifies the movement regardless of the damage done. Everyone will now be talking about "thank goodness he's okay" or "he's strong" and not a peep about him clearly saying he will be a dictator if he wins in November. This failed attempt of his life will not only embolden Trump but give more than enough mindshare away from his violent policies and vision for America. The lesson he'll learn from this if he gets back into office is to make examples of his enemies so that "this doesn't happen again" and because a President is an essentially a legalized war criminal now, that means essentially anything he wants.

If I can ask honestly, when we're talking about an extremist movement, how can it not be talked about in extremist terms? Are people being hyperbolic when a great deal of "it can't get THAT bad" or "he won't do THAT" have all been proven true by his regular critics? Where have people gone wrong calling a spade a spade here? This is the problem with the modern day Republican party: if you talk about them in any honest measure, all you're left with is talking about how they're the most far-right political party with major influence in the western world. And yet they, and they alone it seems, are the only ones who can call things "extreme" which is almost always the obstacles to their ambitions? The media has been treating these folks with kid gloves even still, and yet there's calls the media is to blame for being "too extreme?" What?

I'd love to know what "irresponsible" words the media has used about Donald Trump. The one who has been irresponsible with his words has mostly been Trump himself.

There was that one time Trump also wanted to start shooting Black Lives Matter protesters…

 

Lydecker

Member
Aug 13, 2020
1,409
Yes, because apparently calling Trump a threat to democracy (an actual fact) is so bad its radicalizing republicans to political violence. I called this shit yesterday, the media is going to say 'Dems need to stop saying such bad things about Trump." When all those bad things are 100% factual. And you know what? There's a good chance they will do it because "we go high" right?

The typical right-wing playbook: insult the living daylights oit of your opponents using violent rethoric. Once your opponents do the same, shout from the rooftops that the bullet comes from theleft, how it is irresponsible to do etc. etc.

And the media always buys it and supports it.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
40,585
One thing I think about when I think things appear hopeless is just how far we've come in such a relatively short amount of time, like it's really insane when you think about it.

Women could only open bank accounts in the United States on their own in 1974. That was only 50 years ago! We went from that to having our first black President, to federalizing gay marriage, to so many other progressive things that would have probably been unthinkable back then. Snap back all but seemed inevitable in so many ways, but we march on.

Trump could very well win this year but you gotta just keep fighting because even when the odds are stacked against you, the sheer progress made in a "relatively" short amount of time can't be sneezed at. It sucks that we probably won't get to where we want in our lifetimes but we are getting somewhere.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,999
It was Biden's violent rhetor....

uXf9Wst.png
 

Karsha

Member
May 1, 2020
2,917
Is this the first time when a suspected shooter is named 12 hours ago and no news regarding who he is or messages from his friends come out? I feel like in the other shootings, we get full details 2 hours after the name is dropped ...
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,999
Is this the first time when a suspected shooter is named 12 hours ago and no news regarding who he is or messages from his friends come out? I feel like in the other shootings, we get full details 2 hours after the name is dropped ...


We don't usually get full details right away unless there are social media posts people can point to. Otherwise investigations into the person's vehicle, home, and belongings take time.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,658
I disagree. They're donezo without Trump. They'd be trying to both solve the name recognition problem that's also a huge issue in trying to swap Biden plus lose at least 5% of the base who literally only care about Trump now

Yeah this. Trump has leaned way too much on the cult of personality for his fanbase to accept replacements, even aside from the other candidates already being losers with negative charisma to begin with.
 

DorkLord54

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,480
Michigan
Is this the first time when a suspected shooter is named 12 hours ago and no news regarding who he is or messages from his friends come out? I feel like in the other shootings, we get full details 2 hours after the name is dropped ...
If you're talking about like with Elliot Rodgers, Dylan Roof, and the Buffalo and Christchurch shooters, those guys release manifestos right before they attack, and more often then not are terrorists who want others to follow in their footsteps.
 

FirstTwoPages

Member
Sep 16, 2023
275
Is this the first time when a suspected shooter is named 12 hours ago and no news regarding who he is or messages from his friends come out? I feel like in the other shootings, we get full details 2 hours after the name is dropped ...

CNN and the like are looking for the angle that benefits them. They can't just be out here reporting on news like a news agency, gotta find that spin!
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,686
Phoenix
Is this the first time when a suspected shooter is named 12 hours ago and no news regarding who he is or messages from his friends come out? I feel like in the other shootings, we get full details 2 hours after the name is dropped ...
He was named pretty late at night and also a lot of it depends on how big their social media presence was.
 

Witness

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,740
New York
The shooters family is about to have their lives ruined from this, from the FBI and other government agencies peering through all their personal records to MAGAt nut jobs threatening them as soon as they get outed.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,659
Registered as Republican is all that's really needed to control the message, it doesn't really matter how conservative he was. By the most official declaration, it was one of Trump's own who did it.

For now it is but if we get a manifesto or other things he has said online to describe his rage then that will usurp whatever he was registered as OR confirm it. He's only 20 so I don't hold much weight to what he's registered as. If he was 30+ and been registered for a awhile then ok but he's only 20.
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,265
Elf Tower, New Mexico
Is this the first time when a suspected shooter is named 12 hours ago and no news regarding who he is or messages from his friends come out? I feel like in the other shootings, we get full details 2 hours after the name is dropped ...
This isn't a mass shooting with cops investigating. It's the secret service and the FBI. They tend to be more tight lipped.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,146
Yeah this. Trump has leaned way too much on the cult of personality for his fanbase to accept replacements, even aside from the other candidates already being losers with negative charisma to begin with.

The real chaos would have been in fundraising. All of the Trump money raised would stay in the Trump family sphere while the GOP has been getting starved out.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
22,633
The shooters family is about to have their lives ruined from this, from the FBI and other government agencies peering through all their personal records to MAGAt nut jobs threatening them as soon as they get outed.
I briefly thought about that. Surely their address has been posted somewhere; parents needs to get the fuck out of dodge if they truly had nothing to do with it.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,659
I will add though that no one's rhetoric is as violent as Trump's so this narrative that it's lib/left that are the antagonists is ridiculous. Pointing out the very real fears of Trump is not violent rhetoric.
 

Teusery

"This guy are sick"
Member
May 18, 2022
2,677
Anyone else feeling better about the potential fallout of this today? Learning that the shooter was a registered republican makes it feel a lot less potentially dangerous. Democrats can take a gun control angle. There are months before the election.

I feel fine.
 

HiredN00bs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
849
Laurel, MD
Liberals: I don't understand how fascism is taking over.

Also liberals: You can only fight fascism once they're physically carrying you away to the camps, otherwise you're just as bad as them.

Every single time.
I think part of the problem is that we are unskilled at planning for these things on a large scale. The question isn't whether it's appropriate to fight fascists with violence, it's a question of when, where, and how to use it most effectively. I don't think assassinating Trump is an effective way to do that, and I think we are fortunate the attacker was unsuccessful.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
64,935
I just find it funny that folks are going all political mastermind "lib" for a 20 year old. It's just an incredibly stupid angle.
 

Bengraven

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 26, 2017
31,126
Florida
Got friends who were progressives in their teens and suddenly went right wing, especially since 2016. Got a friend who's got pics of himself shaking hands with Hilary and Obama on their timelines but now are hardcore trumpets complaining about DEI.

Things happen. Not really worth worrying too much about who he supported when he was a kid.
 

SquirrelSr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,480
For now it is but if we get a manifesto or other things he has said online to describe his rage then that will usurp whatever he was registered as OR confirm it. He's only 20 so I don't hold much weight to what he's registered as. If he was 30+ and been registered for a awhile then ok but he's only 20.
Honestly sounds like the guy fell down the Manosphere rabbit hole. He donated to a Dem PAC then shifted hard right within 3 years and joined the NRA and Demolition Ranch.
 
Oct 27, 2017
44,227
In retrospect, it's a good thing that after the SCOTUS ruling that President's had immunity, Biden didn't even entertain vocalizing the hypothetical example that a President could have someone assassinated without any consequences like some people were saying he should have. Although saying "in retrospect" is probably not quite accurate, as it would've been a dumb idea even at the time
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,491
Registered as Republican is all that's really needed to control the message, it doesn't really matter how conservative he was. By the most official declaration, it was one of Trump's own who did it.
There's also the argument that radicals (radical enough to try to assassinate someone) register as the opposite party to try to fuck with primaries.
 

Znazzy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,326
Anyone else feeling better about the potential fallout of this today? Learning that the shooter was a registered republican makes it feel a lot less potentially dangerous. Democrats can take a gun control angle. There are months before the election.

I feel fine.
Yep. People (myself included) were understandably worried last night about the ramifications, but seeing the response to this today on social media and such has me feeling fine. I don't think this is going to have the massive swing people were suspecting yesterday.
 

eDIGI

Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
610
Got friends who were progressives in their teens and suddenly went right wing, especially since 2016. Got a friend who's got pics of himself shaking hands with Hilary and Obama on their timelines but now are hardcore trumpets complaining about DEI.

Things happen. Not really worth worrying too much about who he supported when he was a kid.


This is my exact experience with some of my oldest friends. Something in the Hilary/Trump election seriously changed their mind and now they are super right wing with opinions intensely flipped.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,048
People are saying the picture looks "cool", but it just reminds me of how facists liked to look during their reign, especially Mussolini
904257332.jpg
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,127
Gentrified Brooklyn
I think part of the problem is that we are unskilled at planning for these things on a large scale. The question isn't whether it's appropriate to fight fascists with violence, it's a question of when, where, and how to use it most effectively. I don't think assassinating Trump is an effective way to do that, and I think we are fortunate the attacker was unsuccessful.

While an assassination is terrible and inherently destabilizing, I would argue there really isn't' a when, where and how when pushing back against fascism since it's an ideological creep that only grows. It should always be met with resistance because it relies on casual acceptance to meet its goals. The 'punch a nazi' meme is not the assumption that the act of violence will save the day, but that some views are so abhorrent there needs to be an immediate sharp societal reaction to them lest they become normalized which we've seen happen with large swaths of bigoted and antidemocratic movements.
 

Seik

Member
Jan 5, 2023
2,399
Québec City
Anyone else feeling better about the potential fallout of this today? Learning that the shooter was a registered republican makes it feel a lot less potentially dangerous. Democrats can take a gun control angle. There are months before the election.

I feel fine.

The only thing that upsets me a bit is this photo of him with blood on the face, fist in the air. Shit will energize his campaign and be posted fucking everywhere for a while.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,961
I just find it funny that folks are going all political mastermind "lib" for a 20 year old. It's just an incredibly stupid angle.

The conspiracy theories are already going. There will be plenty that argue that he was actually a democrat that registred as a republican to throw the blame on the party or whatever. Angles like that will get forced out as they always do. The truth doesn't matter, only the narrative.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
61,941
Oct 26, 2017
5,817
We really have no idea. He's registered Republican but he's also only 20 so who the hell knows he might have just been doing as his family does. People need to get more info before they start boasting that he was conservative. We need to see his posts on socials before we know anything imo.
He was also wearing a right-leaning pro-gun YouTube channel t-shirt.

But you never know. Mommy could have dressed him that morning too!

Maybe we can just take the facts as they are instead of spinning the story for the right.
 

JuicyPlayer

Member
Feb 8, 2018
7,897
50 cent to me is coming off as a closet MAGA. Hes keeps posting memes that make Trump look like he's some sort of warrior.