julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,718
Just as it was dumb for republicans to jump to conclusions about the shooter before any information came out, I don't think we should be doing it either. Maybe he was Republican? Seems possible. But maybe he was rebelling against his Republican parents? Who knows! Let's just wait for actual solid info.
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,360
Just as it was dumb for republicans to jump to conclusions about the shooter before any information came out, I don't think we should be doing it either. Maybe he was Republican? Seems possible. But maybe he was rebelling against his Republican parents? Who knows! Let's just wait for actual solid info.

I mean, we already have accounts from his classmates that he presented as super conservative. That's likely the best we're going to get (and his dad is a super Trumper and I don't see him helping things much) since the shooter left no manifesto and we kinda can't ask him for more details
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,274
Just as it was dumb for republicans to jump to conclusions about the shooter before any information came out, I don't think we should be doing it either. Maybe he was Republican? Seems possible. But maybe he was rebelling against his Republican parents? Who knows! Let's just wait for actual solid info.
the "jumping to conclusions" period is largely over. we know about the shooter's background. he was a republican and a trump supporter. he was also socially isolated and did not provide many clues about his actions.
 

YimbyButler

Member
Jun 1, 2024
1,611
The shooter is just some deranged loner that was probably gonna shoot up a shopping center at some point but saw that the worlds most famous person was visiting his tiny town so why not
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,274
just because the guy performed one incongruous action does not invalidate the truth of his life. we might never know his motive, and we'll have to live with that. that doesn't mean that the history explained so far is untrue.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,603
The shooter is just some deranged loner that was probably gonna shoot up a shopping center at some point but saw that the worlds most famous person was visiting his tiny town so why not
Oh, he was just a deranged loner? You should talk with the secret service since you seem to have definitive knowledge of his mental state that nobody else has.
 

greepoman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,076
Why did he shoot at trump if he was a supporter?
Some theories:
-Wouldnt be the first time someone obsessed with someone attacked their obsession
-He was mainly maga cause they were the ones that accepted him. The few friends he had were rumored to wear Trump hats and his Dad was a Trump supporter. If they discarded him he might do it for revenge.
-He came up with a harebrained idea to suicide and help Trump by faking an assassination but was such a bad shot he hit Trump by mistake. He only meant to shoot into the crowd.
 

Happo

Member
Jul 5, 2018
258
Maybe he wanted to start a civil war? There's a huge amount of Trumpers online salivating for one to start.
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,272
The theory that people have come up with that feels the most likely so far is that he was disillusioned with Trump because of the Epstein files and info that came out. But we may actually never find out.
 

Osu 16 Bit

QA Lead at NetherRealm Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,985
Chicago, IL
Just as it was dumb for republicans to jump to conclusions about the shooter before any information came out, I don't think we should be doing it either. Maybe he was Republican? Seems possible. But maybe he was rebelling against his Republican parents? Who knows! Let's just wait for actual solid info.


I agree. Way too much speculation based on very little information or potentially unreliable information.

It's entirely possible some of what we're hearing from classmates or friends isn't true, exaggerated, or outdated. There's a million factors here, for example the classmates we're getting public information from may be embellishing their relationship to him and his closer friends are only speaking to authorities and the information hasn't leaked. Who knows? This stuff can be extremely unreliable early on. People are taking things at face value that probably deserve much follow-up.
 

greepoman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,076
My feeling is that if there was anything anti-Trump on his phone it would've leaked already given the number of MAGAs in the FBI. And anything pro-Trump they'll go out of their way to not release and follow procedure.
 

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,977
Where are ya'll getting he was a Trump supporter? You can't just assume things. Like where is the evidence?
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,671
My feeling is that if there was anything anti-Trump on his phone it would've leaked already given the number of MAGAs in the FBI. And anything pro-Trump they'll go out of their way to not release and follow procedure.
Okay I'm going to need a source on FBI previously smothering incriminating evidence to protect Republicans while favoring the release of things that might hurt dems. I can't tell if people are just being pessimistic or we really shouldn't expect any reveal of anything on the phone that further puts the blame on on them.
 

game-biz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,114
Where are ya'll getting he was a Trump supporter? You can't just assume things. Like where is the evidence?
I'd like to know this as well. I know he was a republican, but this is the first time I've heard he was a Trump supporter.
Okay I'm going to need a source on FBI previously smothering incriminating evidence to protect Republicans while favoring the release of things that might hurt dems. I can't tell if people are just being pessimistic or we really shouldn't expect any reveal of anything on the phone that further puts the blame on on them.
Yeah, I'm gonna just wait at this point lol. Waaay too much speculation happening right now.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
64,808
Where are ya'll getting he was a Trump supporter? You can't just assume things. Like where is the evidence?

Funny enough it doesn't even matter at this point. He's a very white kid from Western PA which is considered prime Trump territory. Its why the story had no wind in its sails. If it were any minority from a woman or an immigrant or a gay person or whatever then this we'd never be hearing the end of it.

Even better because of the absolutely brain rotted nature of the MAGA folks all their conspiracy theory bullshit is making it even harder for any real discourse to happen even amongst themselves.
 

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,977
Funny enough it doesn't even matter at this point. He's a very white kid from Western PA which is considered prime Trump territory. Its why the story had no wind in its sails. If it were any minority from a woman or an immigrant or a gay person or whatever then this we'd never be hearing the end of it.

Even better because of the absolutely brain rotted nature of the MAGA folks all their conspiracy theory bullshit is making it even harder for any real discourse to happen even amongst themselves.

I agree. I think the only thing that mattered was if he was politically left. And everything points to no. So kind of doesn't matter so much now.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,930

Honestly the best advice.

We're much better than the right about holding our own to account. MUCH better. But we also fight one another and that's just RIPE for division by the right. I don't know if these are good examples (please someone jump in) but look at the green party. Look at Cornell West. When we fight one another, or when egos get inflated and there's jockeying for power or credibility, that's not a win for us.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,706
Miami
I've seen local networks report it, but if it's hearsay then even that could be incorrect.
If the students are reporting that they witnessed the shooter identifying as a conservative then that's not hearsay. It would be hearsay if they said that they heard from other students that he was conservative.
 

AlteredBeast

Don't Watch the Tape!
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,864
It's really unfortunate this kid didn't post a huge Epstein list missive online before doing his stupid thing. It would quite possibly be the only thing that would take the wind out of the sails of Trump's popularity.

I don't support vigilante justice, but you'd be foolish if you didn't assume that tens of millions of people in America do., Republicans most of all. How many times have you been party to somebody clapping or outright celebrating the death of a child molester in prison, or a spousal abuser getting killed by the victim, Etc it happens all the time.

Of course, the Epstein list is a huge virtue signal or anyway, since Trump's name is all over it and Republicans were trying to make a huge deal out of it as if Biden and Clinton were going to be all over the thing and once they saw their dear Leaders name on the list, they quickly changed topics to whatever other moral Panic of the day caught their minds. They don't actually care about kids getting molested or child trafficking as long as it's not their kid.

It is 100% the difference between Republicans and Democrats: Republicans can only empathize when they have lived through an experience or when it directly affects them, while Democrats can empathize with people who are not similar to themselves or do not share their experiences.
 

Zamorro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
292
This report about more than one weapon being used according to audio analysis didn't receive much attention:

Forensic analysis suggests that as many as three weapons were fired at the Trump rally in Butler, Pennsylvania on Saturday.

The FBI said Sunday that the shooter acted alone.

The first three shots were consistent with alleged weapon A, the next five were consistent with alleged weapon B, and the final "acoustic impulse" was emitted by a possible weapon C, per audio analysis by Catalin Grigoras, director of the National Center for Media Forensics at the University of Colorado in Denver, and Cole Whitecotton, Senior Professional Research Associate at the same institution.

Audio analysis has also confirmed that the gunman was about 360 to 393 feet from the podium, according to forensics expert Robert Maher.

This conclusion aligns with CNN's analysis that the gunman was on a rooftop 393 to 492 feet from the podium when shots rang out.

The shots exemplify a "crack-pop" sequence, typical when a supersonic bullet passes a microphone, before the "arrival of the corresponding muzzle blast sound," Maher, who teaches audio forensics at Montana State University, told CNN.

The time between these markers places the shooter 110 to 120 meters from the microphone, Maher said, assuming the bullet is moving at an average speed of 800 to 1,000 meters per second, the equivalent of 2,600 to 3,280 feet per second.

This is the second post in this link:


Was this report debunked? It's strange that nobody picked up on this. Maybe because it sounds too outlandish to be true.
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
9,044
東京

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,718
I agree. Way too much speculation based on very little information or potentially unreliable information.

It's entirely possible some of what we're hearing from classmates or friends isn't true, exaggerated, or outdated. There's a million factors here, for example the classmates we're getting public information from may be embellishing their relationship to him and his closer friends are only speaking to authorities and the information hasn't leaked. Who knows? This stuff can be extremely unreliable early on. People are taking things at face value that probably deserve much follow-up.
His classmates are in fact admitting to not having a relationship with him since they call him a loner. But also a loner with MAGA hat wearing friends? Plus everybody seems to be ignoring his coworker who did not describe him that way and has had probably the most recent and personal interactions with him compared to old classmates. We just don't have a lot confirmed right now and that's ok.
 

Lengualo

Member
May 14, 2022
1,014
UK/Mexico
Heh, you can bet your arse if the guy had even the slightest whiff of being on the left then people wouldnt be nearly so hesitant to declare the guys political leanings.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,843

Zamorro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
292
wasn't there 2 secret service snipers?

I thought there was just one shot by one of the snipers, not five, and that was seconds later. You would think that was not part of this audio analysis. But who knows.

Still think that it's more likely there was one shooter, Occam's razor and all, but I just found it odd that nobody reported on this.
 

Rygar 8Bit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,789
Site-15
Cult members don't adjust their views when met with facts.

Sub sects of the cult that are gung ho on different aspects of it. He could have been extremely deep into the Epstein and thought it would only been filled with democrats but when the actual list came out with Trump on it he broke. This is all conjecture though and I really hope they put out as much info as possible on this.
 

Lmo2017

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,229
To the east of Parts Unknown...
This report about more than one weapon being used according to audio analysis didn't receive much attention:



This is the second post in this link:


Was this report debunked? It's strange that nobody picked up on this. Maybe because it sounds too outlandish to be true.

Second shooter is a default panic reaction to a situation like this and it's more or less always wrong. There were snipers and other law enforcement on site. Lots of opportunity to hear other gunshot, especially when they shot the shooter.