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Digital Foundry: PlayStation 5/ Xbox Series X New GPU Spec Leak Analysis: 9.2TF vs 12TF?
- Thread starter chandoog
- Start date
This is not how the real world works. Willing to bet the differences are going to be a lot smaller compared to the X1/PS4. The % difference is the big differentiator. And the CPU/SSD will play a huge role this gen.
oh shit it's #team2019 isn't it....
... the consoles are already out :)
I don't think people really understand the overall upgrade next gen will be.
LOL. That's why console wars is stupid. The only reason some people may think 9TF is poor is because another console might be 12TF.
To be fair, 3TF is a pretty large amount of compute. I'm sure developers can do a whole lot with that (not like its a confirmation of anything to be honest, this is all rumour and speculation).
That being said I agree, the huge leaps are going to be felt in the CPU and access times side of things.
I do wonder what it will mean for things like open world environment design. Are we looking at games where transitions to other areas ie dungeons, other structures are completely eliminated? Man I can't believe its 2020 already!
Meanwhile, if both consoles would be ~9TF and PC gamers would say they seemed weak you'd have both camps take turns defending the specs explaining how it would be enough and shift the talk toward the SSDs. And all of a sudden same SSDs comes to PC and then power doesn't matter and it's all about the games again. Then something else happens and it's all about the price. Etc. It really is a red ocean like Reggie said.The waters are incredibly calm and peaceful at their end.
XB1X is noticeably different compared to ps4pro, and that's like a 1.8tf difference or something. 3, on newer tech as well, is going to be crazy. Kind of hope Sony can close that gap a bit, but I plan to get a ps5 regardless.
Would it? They basically had the same thing this gen, with the Xbox One being phased out for the new and improved Xbox One S and Xbox One X. If they release the Xbox Series X together with the X, there's still nothing stopping them from phasing out one of the models and replacing it with another one.
Sony pretty much already confirmed (at least that it worked on this gen. and they want to do it again). PS5 Pro on 2023/24 and PS6 on 2026/27
I would imagine it depends on how long this next console generation lasts along with how rapidly the tech in those consoles gets left behind.
The great thing about these stopgap 'Pro' consoles is that they are entirely optional and cater to those of us willing to pay for extra juice as the base systems get long in the tooth.
If we reach a point three years in where these consoles are chugging to keep up, I don't see why Sony and MS wouldn't give us the option again.
Raw difference isn't that important, it's the percentage difference.
I doubt the tech will be ready for launches that soon. Process nodes are almost done.
Agreed.
I remember when I first read the projected specs in this article and my first thought was "Wow, both of these consoles are going to be powerful."
I think overall power upgrades with the latest tech won't see a pressing need for it like last gen.
You might be right. Both of these consoles seem very powerful - much more so out of the gate than what we got this last gen.
Honestly, those stopgap systems saved this gen given how unspectacular the base consoles were.
People talking about ps5 pro are just in the thick of the console war trying to comprehend how their box is not as strong.
In a vacuum ps5 is without a doubt a strong system and not one to sleep on
Thats not how it works when both are over 10tflops gcn and supposedly similar elsewhere. 1000 versus 1100 is less than the difference between 5 and 10 despite the numbers being higher
Both machines are full next gen units.
In a vacuum ps5 is without a doubt a strong system and not one to sleep on
Thats not how it works when both are over 10tflops gcn and supposedly similar elsewhere. 1000 versus 1100 is less than the difference between 5 and 10 despite the numbers being higher
Both machines are full next gen units.
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I don't think 20+ TF GPU's will be so cheap by 2023, Sony & MS got lucky this gen that intense competition from Nvidia & AMD created products like the super cheap RX 480 that was more than 2x the performance of the PS4, i can't see AMD making a 20+ TF GPU for $199 in 2023 for Sony/MS to snap up, unless they are happy with more of a 50% increase instead of more than 2x.
Not really. This is basically a 1:1 repeat of PS4, which was almost unanimously regarded as an underpowered generational leap in terms of paper specs despite being the most powerful. PS4 was a modified year and a half old 7850 while PS5 looks to be a (then) modified year and a half old 5700XT.
Oh it mattered more last generation. No question about it, but the overall power upgrade is going to make it matter less.
yes this is what everyone assumes?
sony will however ONLY release a base model, no pro model. They could of course release a pro model a couple of years later
What I'm saying is people aren't disappointed with 9TF just because there's a 12TF Xbox. People were already disappointed with a 1.8TF PS4 despite there not being a 2.1TF Xbox. The problem is ultimately that people don't want nearly 2 year old budget PC GPUs in brand new consoles.
If you want you can google and take a quick peak at what a 3TF difference does on PC GPUs. Even when you're comparing different generations like a 8tf 1070ti vs 11tf 1080ti and zero optimization on games I'd say that there is nothing "crazy" going on. And consoles can have all kinds of differences besides the teraflops that could improve other aspects of the system instead.
Because the overall power upgrade relative to the tech available wasn't a big jump, as opposed to prior gens or next gen which is my point.
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Yeah its ridiculous how some console/tech fans work, why enjoy a system now with the games i want and be happy with what it is when i can wait almost 3 years to buy a more powerful upgrade then complain on the internet its weak shit because of X reasons
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Maybe. When i look at it like 56 cus vs 36 cus...eehh..thats a problem. I understand about clocks, but understand they should be similar bottom line. Thats bigger than the percentage cu difference xbo to base ps4 (18 vs 12). And that difference turned out to be brutal. With same cpu.
Sonys best hope imo still remains that lockhart muddies the waters. If sony is targeting one 9 tf spec and ms is targeting two, 4 and 12, it could help sony a ton in public perception of power. Will be interesting.
Might as well just wait for the PS6.
It will run circles around PS5 and PS5 Pro.
I am personally more attracted to Sony's more traditional approach of simply releasing the PS5 as their next-gen console as opposed to MS's supposed strategy of releasing a budget model and a high-end model. I think developers will optimize around the PS5 since it will be more popular and its power level sort of splits the difference between Lockhart and Series X. They'll start with the PS5 version, then tune it down for Lockhart and tune it up for X.
What I'm more concerned about is if Sony can deliver a well-engineered piece of console hardware. The PS4 Pro is obnoxiously loud and looks like 3 grey Wendy's meat patties sloppily stacked on top of each other.
What I'm more concerned about is if Sony can deliver a well-engineered piece of console hardware. The PS4 Pro is obnoxiously loud and looks like 3 grey Wendy's meat patties sloppily stacked on top of each other.
I'm not sure that example shows what you want it to, because comparing the 1080 Ti and 1070 Ti at 4K gives the impression that the 3TF difference produces massive improvements, especially as consoles move into an unlocked VRR world.
I mean in the 1070 Ti is at 53fps and the 1080 Ti is at 71 in a game like Hitman, that is a huge difference in average fps.
In Dishonored 2 the 1070 Ti is at 42.1 and the 1080 Ti is at 61.4, you see where I'm going with this?
9 vs 12 would produce large dividends is everything else around the GPUs is mostly the same.
I would simply wait and see how each runs third party titles. That's really the only way to tell.
I mean but this is just not true from the ssd to the cpu to the ram...ps4 had a weak mid tier gpu low end cpuband 8gb of ram.
Ps5 has zen 2 cpu 16gb gddr6 and a mid tier gpu with rt hardware supporting vrs and a fast ssd. Stop putting the gpu tflop number alone as if its the only factor. Its stupid af
Telling ya broski; gamers are a special kind of miserable. Shit takes time, talent and determination to be so fucking unhappy with spending ass loads of money on a hobby only to complain about it vehemently all year round.
We should make a doc about this shit. I hear Netflix calling!
You disregard clocks and then say cu count matters in a vacuum to the end result of power? What
Some of you dont know jack about how these things work
I wonder if Sony'll nip this at the bud soon. Sure, I've seen a lot of tech enthusiests here say 9 Vs. 12tf in the conext of the technology involved isn't that big of deal, but to the average person the Xbox Series X seems like a much bigger deal and it's just causing bad PR towards the PS5.
Yeah but honestly we know nothing this could all be old builds far as we know
Not really, 7850+ was midrange.
7970 would be more apt comparison. 5700 XT is the best AMD card out right now if you have a million dollars to spend.
I get the point of it being old.
I saw some figures that said ~20% difference in framerates, but like I said that's two different generations, different amount of memory, bus speeds etc, and no game specific optimization. Here we're likely talking about similar amount of video memory, roughly the same bus speed, the same generation gpu and the same cpu. I don't think 3TF will matter much at all to be honest, definitely nothing worth the word "crazy", the difference will be easily masked out with optimization.
Well, Xbox One S is just only an Xbox One vanilla with a 7% overclock to the GPU (along w/ a new design). I don't see it as an entirely new SKU which was the point discussed.
I don't know about this. Developers Will make their highest quality assets, then downscale them for the platforms that can't handle it.
The CPU and memory gains are so substantial that I imagine scaling across these platforms will be simpler than ever.
I'm actually more intrigued by the Lockhart more than anything else. If it's cheaper than the PS5, but can deliver next Gen multiplats at native 1440p 60fps with checkerboard quality upscaling to 4K I think it would earn an excellent value proposition.
I'm also not confident that the TF difference between series X and PS5 will materialize into immediately obvious differences for most gamers. Maybe MS' party titles will be able to pull away, but I think 3rd parties will be unambitious enough and gamers TVs old enough for much of the gains to go unnoticed.
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I disagree. Sony didn't react to MS, MS reacted by going higher and lower than Sony attacking them on 2 fronts. They WI have the cheaper next Gen for casuals and faster for hard core players.
I believe there is a couple of things wrong with this theory.
First, why would AMD need to test a backwards compatibility mode all the way up to 2Ghz?
The fact the test ran at 2Ghz means it probably wasn't running in BC mode. Neither the Pro nor the OG PS4 ran at 2Ghz.
Second, If Sony did have a 54 CU RDNA1 SOC with HWRT and VRS it would mean that AMD sold Sony the same exact SOC that AMD themselves claims MS Co-engineered and Co-designed.
Wouldn't that be disrespectful to MS? To sell a SOC MS "Co-Engineered and Co-designed" to their direct competitor. Highly unlikely they have the same SOC.
AMD and Microsoft have co-designed and co-engineered a custom, high performance AMD SoC to power Project Scarlett to deliver an incredible gaming experience, including the next-generation of performance, graphics, lighting, visuals, and audio immersion. This processor builds upon the significant innovation of the AMD Ryzen™ "Zen 2" CPU core and a "Navi" GPU based on next-generation Radeon™ RDNA gaming architecture including hardware-accelerated raytracing.
MS Co-engineered & Co-designed
Tested in an identical system the 1080 Ti is on average 41% faster at 4K.
There is just no way such a compute advantage doesn't show up in gaming performance. It's impossible.
It's never happened before, in the console or PC spaces, so why would it magically take place in this example?
Two GPUs in the same family arch are not going to perform anywhere near each other with such a gap in power, just like the 1070 Ti and 1080 Ti. Just like the original Xbox One and Playstaton 4.
What? I was under the impression XBO actually had a slightly more capable CPU than PS4?