Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

Prodigal Son · Mar 4, 2020

LilWayneSuckz said:
Not admonish the "democratic establishment" while running as a democrat.

the average voter could not give less of a shit about this my god

jack_package_200 said:
Bernie Sanders: Barack Obama won 10% of the white vote in Mississippi. That speaks to very bad work done by Democrats there

https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1218592777287753735 That's a yikes from me.

www.resetera.com

Certainly not this

a quote that someone somewhere remembered surely

Kcannon · Mar 4, 2020

Brock Reiher said:
I don't have much faith in that. Hillary lost to Trump and now the party is probably going to nominate Biden. It feels like the same mistakes from 2004 and 2016 are being made.

Trump was perceived as the moderate one in 2016, wasn't him?

At least, I remember poll-based articles stating such.

TwoDelay · Mar 4, 2020

Dreams-Visions said:
this Is just about over already. Sorry Bernie bro's and fans. The rest of the southern states are definitely going to Joe and that momentum is going to carry through the essential midwestern states.

Who do you guys want to see as Biden's VP?

Obama

jack_package_200 · Mar 4, 2020

Tralfamadore64 said:
What exactly was Sanders supposed to do to court black voters? Pull a bottle of hot sauce out of his fucking purse?

Bernie Sanders: Barack Obama won 10% of the white vote in Mississippi. That speaks to very bad work done by Democrats there

https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1218592777287753735 That's a yikes from me.

www.resetera.com

Certainly not this

KHarvey16 · Mar 4, 2020

Papaya said:
I've heard people pronounce many things as fact in this race. Bidens support is incredibly weak I'll wait and see. Bernie isnt far behind.

The upcoming states are Biden's. It's fine to hold out hope but it's not realistic right now. Like, Bernie isn't going to win Florida or other southern states. Of the 36 upcoming, he won 10 last time. And he's performing way worse this time.

xfactor99 · Mar 4, 2020

Bernie is 78 years old so he was never going to change his campaign lol. Take it or leave it, he is an ideologue who is always consistent in what he believe in rather than a compromiser or pragmatic. That's why his supporters love him, but it's also why he's never been good at building coalitions in Congress, and why he's always campaigned the way he did.

Jeremy · Mar 4, 2020

Tralfamadore64 said:
What exactly was Sanders supposed to do to court black voters? Pull a bottle of hot sauce out of his fucking purse?

Not going to Selma was spitting in the black vote's face. Better to go there like Bloomberg and let the congregation turn their backs on you.

ABK281 · Mar 4, 2020

KHarvey16 said:
Why? How is it that when turnout is up Biden does better? The more people who vote, the less support Bernie gets. Why would that make Biden worse in the general?

Biden will just be another Clinton. I'm not saying Bernie would absolutely beat Trump but his odds aren't 0% like they are for Biden. Can't believe we're going to be stuck with Trump for another 4 years...

Piggus · Mar 4, 2020

Toxi said:
Honest question: What could Bernie's campaign have done better?

The Fidel Castro thing was a major fuckup in the same way that Beto's "damn right we're gonna take your AR-15" was a major fuckup. As soon as you start validating the opposition's arguments, it's over. That's a "see, I told you he's a communist" moment for Trumpsters and a huge red flag for independents and moderates who aren't as educated about his policies or who were on the fence. Most people just see the news headlines and that's it. They don't read the story or see the context. Bernie's biggest problem was he handed ammunition to the GOP and his opponents on a silver platter. The campaign also did a poor job controlling the messaging around socialism in general. We all know what his intentions and policies are and how they're based on the democratic socialism found in Europe. But most people are idiots or just permanently triggered by the word after living through the Cold War, so here we are.

I admire Bernie for how honest he is about his policies and how he's not afraid to embrace something genuinely good even when others think it's scary or don't understand it. I'll be voting for him when it's Oregon's turn, but the country as a whole just isn't ready. But hopefully we can at least be ready to come together and tell that orange sack of shit in the White House to kick rocks. And if we're vocal and engaged in the future, someone like Bernie will get their shot. That's where the demographics are trending, so it's only a matter of time.

WarpSpeedMolasses · Mar 4, 2020

Dreams-Visions said:
this Is just about over already. Sorry Bernie bro's and fans. The rest of the southern states are definitely going to Joe and that momentum is going to carry through the essential midwestern states.

Who do you guys want to see as Biden's VP?

I honestly don't care. He's only getting my vote cause he's not Trump.

KidAAlbum · Mar 4, 2020

turtle553 said:
He could have altered his messaging to bring in a wider coalition. Don't just sell m4a as a human right to healthcare, but as something good for the economy. Tell people they could retire early or switch jobs or start their own companies. He just never changed to match the audience he needed.

This is a good point which Yang pointed out (m4a being good for small businesses). Why he didn't hammer home that point is a mystery to me.

PlanetSmasher · Mar 4, 2020

ABK281 said:
Biden will just be another Clinton. I'm not saying Bernie would absolutely beat Trump but his odds aren't 0% like they are for Biden. Can't believe we're going to be stuck with Trump for another 4 years...

How do you figure? If Bernie can't even beat Biden, WHY would his odds be better against Trump?

Big Baybee · Mar 4, 2020

jack_package_200 said:
The villanizing people who didn't support him (whether it be voters or party officials) was actually highly detrimental

Good read. Some hard truths there.

KHarvey16 · Mar 4, 2020

Ars Arcanum said:
Well, no I responded to this person almost immediately. Which was before the others had posted.

You didn't address what the clip actually showed, which was people switching behind him and him joking about it.

Deleted member 176 · Mar 4, 2020

Kcannon said:
Trump was perceived as the moderate one in 2016, wasn't him?

At least, I remember poll-based articles stating such.

That was something that a few disingenuous people said to try to convince moderates to vote for Trump. The core of Trump's platform was far right racism and authoritarianism. His slogan is the old American Nazi Party slogan.

It's basically the same level as "Joe Biden is a radical far left socialist".

Ars Arcanum · Mar 4, 2020

How is Bernie faring overall in the states he nabbed versus 2016??

jack_package_200 · Mar 4, 2020

Prodigal Son said:
a quote that someone somewhere remembered surely

It was endemic of a larger problem

Serene · Mar 4, 2020

ABK281 said:
Biden will just be another Clinton. I'm not saying Bernie would absolutely beat Trump but his odds aren't 0% like they are for Biden. Can't believe we're going to be stuck with Trump for another 4 years...

How could you possibly believe this logic? How could Bernie beat Trump if he can't beat Biden? And if Bernie can beat Trump, then Biden must be able to because he just beat Bernie!

RiOrius · Mar 4, 2020

ABK281 said:
If Biden wins Trump wins. I'll bet fucking everything under the sun that he can't beat Trump.

Then bet. Don't even need to wait for the primary to finish. Buy some shares of Trump and Bernie, total cost is 61c per. If either of them win you get a dollar.

Latvian Hitman · Mar 4, 2020

TwoDelay said:
I get your point but Pete is 38 and no one got up in arms about that

He also got nowhere close to sniffing the nom. And a super-progressive firebrand that happens to be both a woman and a minority will have a lot more bridges to build in order to court the white 50+ crowd than a soft-spoken moderate white guy from the midwest.

Her best bet would be to wait until she's in her 40's, to continue to get her name and platform out there while waiting for her biggest demo (currently young people) to age up to the point where they actually go to the polls and vote.

Papaya · Mar 4, 2020

KHarvey16 said:
The upcoming states are Biden's. It's fine to hold out hope but it's not realistic right now. Like, Bernie isn't going to win Florida or other southern states. Of the 36 upcoming, he won 10 last time. And he's performing way worse this time.

We'll see. I'll be realistic.

Prodigal Son · Mar 4, 2020

jack_package_200 said:
It was endemic of a larger problem

uh huh?

KHarvey16 · Mar 4, 2020

ABK281 said:
Biden will just be another Clinton. I'm not saying Bernie would absolutely beat Trump but his odds aren't 0% like they are for Biden. Can't believe we're going to be stuck with Trump for another 4 years...

You didn't actually refute anything in that post except to say "nuh uh." What you believe isn't rational.

Syriel · Mar 4, 2020

AdrianG4 said:
Could Warren be Bidens veep？

If this were to be announced before the convention Sanders would be toast. A Biden/Warren ticket would give Biden the necessary votes to lock the nomination.

Deleted member 9197 · Mar 4, 2020

Trouble said:
wow

Clinton did this. See my edit. And answer my question.

Sho_Nuff82 · Mar 4, 2020

MegaBeefBowl said:
No way.

"Damn right I'm taking your guns"

Was literally political suicide in Texas. He would not help.

Beto is the most popular Democrat in Texas in the past 40 years lol. He won more Senate votes than Hillary or Obama won presidential votes.

Steel · Mar 4, 2020

Toxi said:
Honest question: What could Bernie's campaign have done better?

Don't aim for young voters at the expense of older ones that vote.

Dreams-Visions · Mar 4, 2020

jack_package_200 said:
The villanizing people who didn't support him (whether it be voters or party officials) was actually highly detrimental

Yes it was. It has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, as if everyone hasn't been fighting.

MegaBeefBowl · Mar 4, 2020

Tiger Priest said:
I mean... Biden WROTE the damn assault weapon ban in the 90s. Gun nuts will be voting Trump regardless.

We're talking about turning Texas blue.

"Common sense gun control" is something that maybe can be digested by Texas democrats and independents.

"HELL YEAH WE'RE TAKING YOUR AR-15" on the debate stage is Texan for "Fuck off and don't vote for me"

TyrantII · Mar 4, 2020

Prodigal Son said:
the average voter could not give less of a shit about this my god

a quote that someone somewhere remembered surely

A lot of old black folks in the south owe a lot to their old black establishment elected officials, and vote accordingly. There's still people that lived through Jim Crow down there.

Big yikes if you don't really understand that.

KHarvey16 · Mar 4, 2020

Papaya said:
We'll see. I'll be realistic.

Realistically that's the forecast. Unless very unlikely things magically happen it's just not good for him and time is quickly running out.

Serene · Mar 4, 2020

TwoDelay said:
I get your point but Pete is 38 and no one got up in arms about that

Pete turned way, way more center and subservient than AOC ever would. She wouldn't compromise to the establishment in the same way Pete very much was willing to.

Rats · Mar 4, 2020

Prodigal Son said:
the average voter could not give less of a shit about this my god

lol yeah

I won't make excuses for Bernie losing but half of these complaints are just the same meaningless shit that nobody ever cared about.

Dreams-Visions · Mar 4, 2020

Serene said:
Man, that black vote discrepancy is just a slaughter

Who would have guessed that Killer Mike wouldn't be sufficient to earn our trust.

Ecotic · Mar 4, 2020

jack_package_200 said:
The villanizing people who didn't support him (whether it be voters or party officials) was actually highly detrimental

Yeah, the whole "the establishment is getting nervous because working people want a better life for a change" angle was really bad. The implication was if you're not a supporter of Sanders's ideology then you either weren't caring enough for the downtrodden or the policies and politicians you supported weren't good.

Steel · Mar 4, 2020

TwoDelay said:
I get your point but Pete is 38 and no one got up in arms about that

I was! He was totally unqualified, his only saving grace is that his electoral reforms are absolutely vital.

Soul Skater · Mar 4, 2020

Toxi said:
Honest question: What could Bernie's campaign have done better?

Travel back in time and become best friends with Clyburn

ToddBonzalez · Mar 4, 2020

TwoDelay said:
Obama

Does serving as president for 2 terms bar you from being a VP? I genuinely have no idea.

Deleted member 32561 · Mar 4, 2020

Duncan said:
At the end of the day; they want you to give up.

Just don't.

I won't.
I'll continue fighting for Bernie until the day he wins or the day he gives up, and fuck anyone who tries to tell me I shouldn't or that he should stop running. And then, win or lose, I will continue fighting for the people this capitalist system, that this monstrous, white supremacist, misogynist, bigoted, genocidal, miserly country known as the United States, shits all over. Perhaps someday, I'll even be proud to be American, looking upon the work we all did to make sure everyone can be healthy and taken care of to pursue their own happiness.

Who's with me?

PixelatedDonut · Mar 4, 2020

Asking Americans to have some sort of self reflection was Bernie's biggest mistakes. Biden has run a horrible campaign and I believe he's going to lose to trump. Would love to see a progressive veep.

KidAAlbum · Mar 4, 2020

PlanetSmasher said:
Seriously. I don't know why this is so complicated for folks: you're running as a Democrat, stop spending all your time shitting on Democrats if you want them to fucking vote for you.

Christ. Bernie and his surrogates sometimes feel like they spend more time bitching about the party THEY WANT TO BE NOMINATED TO REPRESENT than anything else.

He didn't attack the electorate though. He didn't pull a "deplorables" talking point. The other candidates and media attached themselves to the corporations' interests and had this Bernie vs us narrative. Seriously, if anything he's been too soft on other candidates, or his focus been too varied.

Ars Arcanum · Mar 4, 2020

Dreams-Visions said:
Who would have guessed that Killer Mike wouldn't be sufficient to earn our trust.

Was about to say...is that 17 percent just killer Mike and his constituents. Lol

Trouble · Mar 4, 2020

Tralfamadore64 said:
Clinton did this. See my edit. And answer my question.

I know exactly where it was from. Your post was still super gross in its connotation. The assumption that a white woman can't actually like hot sauce and would only answer that, when ask what she carries in her purse, to court black voters is... problematic at best.

E: Especially when there's receipts that it predated the campaign.

mugurumakensei · Mar 4, 2020

ToddBonzalez said:
Does serving as president for 2 terms bar you from being a VP? I genuinely have no idea.

never been tested but the understanding of the constitution is the VP must be eligible to become president which means 2 term presidents are barred from being VP

TwoDelay · Mar 4, 2020

ToddBonzalez said:
Does serving as president for 2 terms bar you from being a VP? I genuinely have no idea.

yes

PlanetSmasher · Mar 4, 2020

Ecotic said:
Yeah, the whole "the establishment is getting nervous because working people want a better life for a change" angle was really bad. The implication was if you're not a supporter of Sanders's ideology then you either weren't caring enough for the downtrodden or the policies and politicians you supported weren't good.

One of the biggest problems of Sanders' campaign thus far has been framing people who don't support it as either outright enemies or too uneducated to understand it. Like you couldn't possibly not be on board with Sanders' ideas unless you're a HATER or an idiot.

He and his surrogates have never been able to make his message and his platform as inclusive as Bernie clearly THINKS it is.

Davilmar · Mar 4, 2020

I'm already seeing multiple friends on Facebook from NC, SC, FL, and Ohio claiming they won't vote for Biden in the general. Christ...

Dreams-Visions said:
Who would have guessed that Killer Mike wouldn't be sufficient to earn our trust.

I can get being wary on Bernie, but fuck me if we have to stand behind Biden. It's going to be a rough ride.

Big Baybee · Mar 4, 2020

Dreams-Visions said:
Who would have guessed that Killer Mike wouldn't be sufficient to earn our trust.

It's hilarious because I think Bun B was trotted out as a sanders surrogate as well. Like wtf are you doing?

Dreams-Visions · Mar 4, 2020

TyrantII said:
A lot of old black folks in the south owe a lot to their old black establishment elected officials, and vote accordingly. There's still people that lived through Jim Crow down there.

Big yikes if you don't really understand that.

That's black folks everywhere, not just the south. You'll see that isn't he exit polling going forward, which is likely to look like it did in TX.

In short: "We still don't know you, Bernie."

Regulus Tera · Mar 4, 2020

TwoDelay said:
Obama

War Crimes 2 Electric Boogaloo

Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

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