He did. The Russos could always retcon that but I'm hoping they don't.
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I'm having a difficult time parsing this. Are you saying if Killmonger's father went all the way in his plan Killmonger's plan in the movie would have paled in comparison?
I saw this yesterday. Loved it and the more I think about it the more I love it more. Possibly the best Marvel movie in my eyes and I enjoyed it MUCH more than any recent superhero film from both Marvel and DC, with only Wonder Woman coming close.
I'm more of a DC guy in general but I gotta give props when props are due, because this depiction of T'challa deserves all the love and attention its getting. A great, culturally relevant film.
I'm more of a DC guy in general but I gotta give props when props are due, because this depiction of T'challa deserves all the love and attention its getting. A great, culturally relevant film.
It's hard to say. Theoretically, he might have hated his father. The man who kept him from his fairy tale.
That is interesting. It is hard to tell how drastic of an impact N'Jobu's plan would've had if successful. And even alive he surely would have been barred from Wakanda alongside his son.
I didn't get the sense he was as bloodthirsty. He could have also conquered Wakanda.
Thanos doesn't care about Vibranium.
With the reality gem he could simply will tons of it into existance.
My take as well. During the astral plane trip, N'Jobu seemed to express regret at the path he set Erik on, so I don't get the impression he was as bloodthisrty as his son.
I wasn't mad at the dude in the theater that shouted out Tide Ad when T'Challa came out the dirt wearing all white in the astral scene.
Yeah. Killmonger was ready to fight anyone. The women were just the ones who stood up to him.
Oh shit, didn't know this.
But if Vision is there, I guess that he'd be the gem lol.
And judging by the trailer that doesn't work out too well for them
People saying it's because he laughed before he killed the Dora Milaje woman in the third act.
My man was about to orgasm during both fights with T'Challa when he had him on the ropes. The nigga loved to kill. His name is Killmonger.
*shrug*
They can confirm whatever.
That ain't how the shit played out on film.
Strange happens sometime before Ragnarok, but I'd say this is about it.
That's what I'm thinking, though I guess you could fit Ant-Man & the Wasp anywhere between Civil War & Thor: Ragnarök until we get more details.
Yep. Until recently I was under the impression that Doctor Strange took place sometime after Civil War, but I'm sure now it takes place after Ant-Man and before Civil War.
Just came back from seeing it with my wife and friend and it was everything. Just everything I hoped it would be: powerful, inclusive, uplifting, entertaining, beautiful, and just brimming with powerful black people.
Erik Killmonger is probably the best antagonist Marvel has had yet, and I've always been of the camp that never had an issue with any of the antagonists we've had so far. They've all been fairly well done, with maybe Maliketh from Thor 2 being genuinely weak sauce.
Amazing movie, and I need to see it again, and own it on Blu Ray as soon as that fucker is available.
Also, I inadvertently purchased 4DX tickets, which was a surprise to my friend, as she had never been to a 4DX showing. She got a kick out of it. I had planned to just see the movie in good ol' 2D, but it was pretty good in 4DX. Sometimes distracting, but overall good.
There's a lot to chew on in this movie, but I teared up during scenes I didn't expect to. Growing up a child of the 80's, being told that my people couldn't be heroic, and that the only heroes that mattered were the white ones...this movie hit me in the feels real good.
Erik Killmonger is probably the best antagonist Marvel has had yet, and I've always been of the camp that never had an issue with any of the antagonists we've had so far. They've all been fairly well done, with maybe Maliketh from Thor 2 being genuinely weak sauce.
Amazing movie, and I need to see it again, and own it on Blu Ray as soon as that fucker is available.
Also, I inadvertently purchased 4DX tickets, which was a surprise to my friend, as she had never been to a 4DX showing. She got a kick out of it. I had planned to just see the movie in good ol' 2D, but it was pretty good in 4DX. Sometimes distracting, but overall good.
There's a lot to chew on in this movie, but I teared up during scenes I didn't expect to. Growing up a child of the 80's, being told that my people couldn't be heroic, and that the only heroes that mattered were the white ones...this movie hit me in the feels real good.
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I wouldn't say he sought it out, the violence against women just stood out more.
But Killmonger was about even in his on screen kills. Maybe we're just not used to seeing women getting it like that.
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I'm pretty sure Feige and Derrickson debunked this. The man mentioned in Doctor Strange is not Rhodey.
No, the character mentioned with the injury is seen not 20 minutes after he was mentioned.
there's obviously layers to this and while I don't think he was particularly sexist in the nature of his character, I think the portrayal of his character was written specifically to have instances of cruelty to women in order to make him seem like the bad guy. It was intentional, not saying that he only had it out for women.
Just saw this again in IMAX for the second time, loved it even more so than the first time.
Also just ordered The Art of Black Panther off Amazon as well. Can't wait to dive in and read it when it arrives.
Also just ordered The Art of Black Panther off Amazon as well. Can't wait to dive in and read it when it arrives.
You are basically doing what the Wakandans, do, though. You look to what's more familiar and decides that it's more "enlightened" because maybe it mostly works compared to other things.
Wakanda is an isolationist country that looks outward as the whole world turns to chaos while they continue to be the most prosperous and advanced. They didn't really have that much incentive and necessity to change the tradition that had been working really well for them for thousands of years.
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Not to mention that, both from a philosophical and practical reality standpoint, it's literally impossible to have a perfect government, no matter how "advanced" you are.
Should have was a bad word. Meant would have been cool to see Killmonger justify to a god why he should gain powers.
A lot of the themes of the movie are tradition vs innovation, as told by Coogler himself. Shuri yawning and pressing tradition to move along during T'Challa's coronation ceremony speaks to that as well.
This is the best Marvel script to date. Infinity War be damned, that will be exiting, but even then we'll see how it goes. People will argue over rewatches for that too.
I present to you the TSM Sho_Nuff82 breakdown
And I have the final piece, because this movies theme that spoke to me was Responsibility and Accountability.
Killmonger is literally Black Aggression. A "fictional" American product we've been clamped for easily so it might as well be real. Take it to the max, No Fucks. MIT. CIA. Erik was brilliant. Because he was hellbent on his conquest. He's an Op, he tryna find Wakanda... Of course lemme find the top Vibranium dealer... He's going to be a access pass if he got shitty history. Erik was pissed off entirely.
People underestimate TChalla. This is why he succeeds. This is TChallas movie. Its a comeup story. He comes off as a late bloomer because Wakanda is enormous weight. He has access to the most advanced nation on the planet and has to take care of his people. That is real burden. Having a dependent. Even one is drastic enough, imagine a nation. TChallas biggest enemy in this movie was himself. He second guessed his decisions everytime. Klaus was done until the cameras came out, and TChalla undermined himself to cooperate in a bigger world system. He had good right not to trust Ross in Korea, and what does he get? Dude takes a bullet for his royal guard... Not even TChalla. Thats when TChalla knew that it was possible to have good faith in one another. TChallas empathy for Erik is what destroys him in the tribal.
Erik's aggression is overbearing because its so truthful and pure. But you forget, that he's a CIA Op trained to manipulate and deceive. He is the product of America itself. The cream of the crop actually. Radicalized by the same system who wielded it against his people, with the same tactics used for efficiency and are usually highly unmoral. Eriks problem is that his aggression was a goal and not a motivator. That conquering the world doesn't solve the pain that one feels in life. Its exactly why he's so arrogant in his death. Its why like TSM said, He never says anything about uplifting the people. He wallowed in his anger. TChalla represents the dedication and the drive to put that anger aside to achieve something. Its such a true black feeling. Having to put your feelings aside to appease, if only for a greater cause. Killmonger rebukes that, and he goes from the heart at all times unapologetic. He has a Righteous Anger but its anger, so its ultimately destructive. The world could not have afforded for him to be king. TChalla had to accept his role and stop questioning his worth, his values, and judgement.
There are so many situations that make black people question the structure. And the only thing people are asking for is to equalize it. TChalla says yes to that, and now represents a power structure that is generous and kind. He essentially equalizes the World. That last scene is essentially TChalla becoming a renown world figure.
I can't wait to see this again.
I present to you the TSM Sho_Nuff82 breakdown
TSM said:
Sho_Nuff said:
TSM said:
Sho Nuff said:
TSM said:
And I have the final piece, because this movies theme that spoke to me was Responsibility and Accountability.
Killmonger is literally Black Aggression. A "fictional" American product we've been clamped for easily so it might as well be real. Take it to the max, No Fucks. MIT. CIA. Erik was brilliant. Because he was hellbent on his conquest. He's an Op, he tryna find Wakanda... Of course lemme find the top Vibranium dealer... He's going to be a access pass if he got shitty history. Erik was pissed off entirely.
People underestimate TChalla. This is why he succeeds. This is TChallas movie. Its a comeup story. He comes off as a late bloomer because Wakanda is enormous weight. He has access to the most advanced nation on the planet and has to take care of his people. That is real burden. Having a dependent. Even one is drastic enough, imagine a nation. TChallas biggest enemy in this movie was himself. He second guessed his decisions everytime. Klaus was done until the cameras came out, and TChalla undermined himself to cooperate in a bigger world system. He had good right not to trust Ross in Korea, and what does he get? Dude takes a bullet for his royal guard... Not even TChalla. Thats when TChalla knew that it was possible to have good faith in one another. TChallas empathy for Erik is what destroys him in the tribal.
Erik's aggression is overbearing because its so truthful and pure. But you forget, that he's a CIA Op trained to manipulate and deceive. He is the product of America itself. The cream of the crop actually. Radicalized by the same system who wielded it against his people, with the same tactics used for efficiency and are usually highly unmoral. Eriks problem is that his aggression was a goal and not a motivator. That conquering the world doesn't solve the pain that one feels in life. Its exactly why he's so arrogant in his death. Its why like TSM said, He never says anything about uplifting the people. He wallowed in his anger. TChalla represents the dedication and the drive to put that anger aside to achieve something. Its such a true black feeling. Having to put your feelings aside to appease, if only for a greater cause. Killmonger rebukes that, and he goes from the heart at all times unapologetic. He has a Righteous Anger but its anger, so its ultimately destructive. The world could not have afforded for him to be king. TChalla had to accept his role and stop questioning his worth, his values, and judgement.
There are so many situations that make black people question the structure. And the only thing people are asking for is to equalize it. TChalla says yes to that, and now represents a power structure that is generous and kind. He essentially equalizes the World. That last scene is essentially TChalla becoming a renown world figure.
I can't wait to see this again.
That's what I think it is. If we are going to have women in positions of power within a narrative, then they are naturally going to be involved in the conflicts when the antagonistic agent comes to try and wrestle power away. It's....literally just the necessary part of an action movie. The only way to really avoid this is to take power out of their hands, so women's suffering could only be a matter of villainous targeting rather than incidental to the conflict of the narrative.
Not that it affects anything, but I do recall T'Challa referring to him as Killmonger once.
He might have.
Which means the name is said a grand total of two times, and never by the villain himself. *shrug*
Oh no you didn't. No super fast transition between multiple fighting characters in CW helped the scene look more real. We won't get into the lighting which throughout BP was horrible except for the fight scenes where T'Challa was standing in water.
You actual feel T'Challa is fighting in CW. In BP, when he's not an obvious CGI character it's almost too dark to see him in most his fight scenes.
We can agree to disagree. Wholeheartedly.
This is still the best cat suit fight Marvel has given us. (it helps a little that we can actually see him fighting)
I understand CGI when they need BP running fast enough to catch up to a car...or if he's jumping BETWEEN buildings, but sticking a good choreographed fighter in the catsuit and having him fight against other humans would have added a much needed level of realism to the BP character.
Anyone want a CGI version of Okowe fighting? NO. So don't give me a CGI BP fighting either.
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except that's exactly what happens with the garden burning scene and him shooting his taken-hostage girlfriend.
Right yea, it's no big deal really. I did like the origin of the name though. It reminded me of how they dropped in Iron Monger in the first Iron Man.
And again; that'd matter if he wouldn't have done the exact same thing to a man in that position. Hell, he kills the man the old woman is replacing and kills two men at the same time as his girlfriend, only really taking any joy out of Klaw's death.
He even claims he'll kill the children of anyone who dares oppose him while speaking in the throne room.
His response to anyone in his way is violence. It's not at all gendered.
Holy shit.
Clear hack....right?
I don't agree. "Choke out the dissenting authority figure" is a trope as old as time, with the most infamous example being Darth Vader choking out a rando admiral for casually shit talking him. Holding someone up by the throat is just a very evokative imagine of dominance and malice that is used almost any time there is a superpowered encounter with a villain. There is nothing notable about it itself, it's just we rarely see it happen to a woman.
Killmonger's girlfriend is a little bit trickier. That scene was indeed meant to evoke how he cares for no one, including his romantic partners (who are usually the only things villains do care about), and it would be a different sort of scene if he was gay and had a boyfriend he had to shoot instead. The point they were driving there is that Killmonger sees everyone's lives as secondary to his objective, and the shorthand for that is "kill a loved one", which kinda had to be a woman unless you want to do extra work by developing a close relationship with some male partner.
So the throat choking scene is one I disagree with entirety, while the girlfriend scene is one where they kinda had to use a shorthand to save screentime.
"I want to hit that ass again."
or ...
bring back the literal chocolate cakes (plural).