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Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,912
My problem is that he is a white men doing it when non white people know this, talk about this and suffer form this. Why he, a white man, feels like he needs to say this? liberal white men always do this to distract people from their own shit.
White people of all genders should be willing to call out the white supremacy of other white people.

Like, if a straight white dude runs across a Karen in the midst of bitching out a black person, you want him to preface an intervention with "I know it's not my place to really intervene as I am a white man and thus possess far more privilege and social status than you as a white woman, but...?" It's politically correct, but I'd rather him be expedient about it and just tell her to back the fuck off.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
FQw1FeQ.jpg
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,558
Chicago
My problem is that he is a white men doing it when non white people know this, talk about this and suffer form this. Why he, a white man, feels like he needs to say this? liberal white men always do this to distract people from their own shit.

What are you talking about?

PoC have been complaining about this for a long time. It took a white 50 year old dude doing stand up on SNL for everyone to suddenly listen and get upset about it. Now that it's Bill saying it it's, "oh, he's white, he's in no position to talk about this." Yet, he has a Black wife and a biracial child.

Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years. But no one listens to their voice when it's them. No one. Nada. Zilch.
 

elLOaSTy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,856
Ya'll it's Bill burr, he's an insincere Gen X comedian who plays up to his boys. He's not worth fighting over, especially on such a trivial worthless comment.

He's totally right that white women have held people of color back and kept them out of feminist movements and spaces for generations while also benefitting from white privledge. This isn't just Karen's it's all whiteness, and women have had their own unique and terrible roles to play.

He's also a straight white guy who doesn't have the vantage to be calling women out in the way he does, in very bad faith, as if they were even given autonomy until very recent history.

That is still not a reason to Not all white women this, "Not all -" is never a good narrative to try and argue.
 
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Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,304
it wouldn't bother me much if he wasn't white. Look, I know white women can be vile but I think a white men opinion on this is pretty much worthless if he doesn' t talk about white men first, I'm a woman of color and honestly my opinion is more worthy than his.
He's been talking about white evil for many years
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
Please note i'm not using this to troll, but boy does this feel like some people right now in this thread.
4iapq0.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,772
I think we need to acknowledge, though, that the Amy Coopers of the world do what they do knowing it will get Black people killed. That's really not any better in my book. That WW didn't "actually" kill someone, we just called the ones who did, is not a distinction for us to be proud of.
Oh for sure! Emmett Till is a cautionary tale in my circle. I was just trying to explain to Omega why the discourse around White women is particularly less 'grave' than the one around White men. White women get us killed too, but White men still lead the pack, which is why I believe we don't come up cute names like Officer Trigger happy Trey
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years. But no one listens to their voice when it's them. No one. Nada. Zilch.

as a women of color, what do you mean by this? I read feminist stuff and we are in solidarity white white women when it comes to misogyny , male violence, etc. and call out the racism from other women. The one who I personally feel that actually hijacks the movement now are white american liberals who are to scared to call out the racism from non-white cultures and if you complain you are racist even if you are from that one or say misogyny is a white thing as if woman of color don't get killed by men of color, etc. and yeah nobody listens because they think they know better than us.
 

elLOaSTy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,856
What are you talking about?

PoC have been complaining about this for a long time. It took a white 50 year old dude doing stand up on SNL for everyone to suddenly listen and get upset about it. Now that it's Bill saying it it's, "oh, he's white, he's in no position to talk about this." Yet, he has a Black wife and a biracial child.

Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years. But no one listens to their voice when it's them. No one. Nada. Zilch.

Pointing out a white man's partner and biracial children merits them no POC points. He uses that shit as a shield. This guy is 100% a bad faith actor and always has been. The poster above is correct that this is the type of comedy and humor he has used to say "hey look we're all terrible" let's be friends we're not that different. It's the kind of thinking that let's white people write off the horrible opinions of their GOP friends and family. It's what-aboutism, white guys have weaponized this to kill conversations. He doesn't want people to actually talk about anything but him.

Make no mistake, yes, it does take a white guy to say this for it to do numbers, but it does not then have the intended effect that a POC or a WOC would want it to have. I guarantee you this will be used more as a way for white men to stifle social justice conversations than it will cause white women to pause and listen and stand being WOC instead of stepping out in front of them.

It is the crux of peoples frustrations with the statement, it's not about the facts he presented, it's all in the framing. Intention is everything, and the intention of his joke was to tell white women to shut up, not to listen.
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,223
White people of all genders should be willing to call out the white supremacy of other white people.

Like, if a straight white dude runs across a Karen in the midst of bitching out a black person, you want him to preface an intervention with "I know it's not my place to really intervene as I am a white man and thus possess far more privilege and social status than you as a white woman, but...?" It's politically correct, but I'd rather him be expedient about it and just tell her to back the fuck off.

Can I just say that you've been on point this entire thread. Just Thank you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,772
Guys I feel like dog-piling or sub-posting about Omega is not really necessary. I feel like she just came into the discussion sideways.

It's not like she seems like she's posting in bad faith.

Edit: I don't think posts like Nep's are dog-piling, btw! I think she's engaging earnestly with her
 

Kotto

CEO of Traphouse Networks
Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,466
as a women of color, what do you mean by this? I read feminist stuff and we are in solidarity white white women when it comes to misogyny , male violence, etc. and call out the racism from other women. The one who I personally feel that actually hijacks the movement now are white american liberals who are to scared to call out the racism from non-white cultures and if you complain you are racist even if you are from that one or say misogyny is a white thing as if woman of color don't get killed by men of color, etc. and yeah nobody listens because they think they know better than us.
HUH

You dont think people do that already though? Why even bring that up?

This post just reads like minorities are the problem
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
HUH

You dont think people do that already though? Why even bring that up?

This post just reads like minorities are the problem
what, this are me feeling as a brown women and how I feel about how american liberals see us and you say I'm blaming minorities? can you explain why, I don't get it
 

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,455
Please note i'm not using this to troll, but boy does this feel like some people right now in this thread.
4iapq0.jpg

"Karen" kind of is sexist, in a way. Or atleast it's a form of stereotyping. I haven't seen anybody use it in a way that's totally not applicable and deserving but I can imagine it. Alt-righters co-opting it to shit on white women who could be making salient points, but fuck them cause they're virtue signaling Karens. Husbands tired of their nagging Karens, etc.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,558
Chicago
as a women of color, what do you mean by this? I read feminist stuff and we are in solidarity white white women when it comes to misogyny , male violence, etc. and call out the racism from other women. The one who I personally feel that actually hijacks the movement now are white american liberals who are to scared to call out the racism from non-white cultures and if you complain you are racist even if you are from that one or say misogyny is a white thing as if woman of color don't get killed by men of color, etc.

You're going to have to press the brakes and tell me what you are arguing.

I'm very aware of the shitty things that men of all races do but this thread is specifically about the entitlement and privilege white women have benefited from and conveniently capitalized on for personal gain. There is a ton of intersectionality here and I'm not going to pick at hairs.

Bill is aware of this as he positions the white man as like the worst humans ever in a lot of his comedy. This time he's just jokingly saying that they didn't do it alone. They weren't alone in their racism or ravaging of black people in the US. No where is he implying that men in general are angels. I really don't get what you're saying, is it, "not all white women?" Because I have some bad news for you if so.
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
You're going to have to press the brakes and tell me what you are arguing.

I'm very aware of the shitty things that men of all races do but this thread is specifically about the entitlement and privilege white women have benefited from and conveniently capitalized on for personal gain. There is a ton of intersectionality here and I'm not going to pick at hairs.

Bill is aware of this as he positions the white man as like the worst humans ever in a lot of his comedy. This time he's just jokingly saying that they didn't do it alone. No where is he implying that men in general are angels.

you said " Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years " and as a woc, I said my opinion. Are you going to explain what did you mean by " Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years "? I never said "not all white women", please point out where I said it.
 

Kotto

CEO of Traphouse Networks
Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,466
what, this are me feeling as a brown women and how I feel about how american liberals see us and you say I'm blaming minorities? can you explain why, I don't get it
I am speaking specifically about this piece:
The one who I personally feel that actually hijacks the movement now are white american liberals who are to scared to call out the racism from non-white cultures and if you complain you are racist even if you are from that one or say misogyny is a white thing as if woman of color don't get killed by men of color, etc. and yeah nobody listens because they think they know better than us.
It just reads like whataboutism and throwing blame to something that doesn't exist (people not calling out racism within non-white cultures)?
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,565
My problem is that he is a white men doing it when non white people know this, talk about this and suffer form this. Why he, a white man, feels like he needs to say this? liberal white men always do this to distract people from their own shit.

Man why the fuck would any of us minorities be offended that a white guy with a platform to do something actually points out some problematic shit that white women refuse to acknowledge? Like what the fuck are you even saying? That cause he is a white guy pointing some shit out is off limits? Says who?

The problem isn't "how do we get white dudes to shut up". The problem is "how do we get white people to understand white supremacy and help us dismantle it". What the fuck are your contributions to this thread doing to further that cause? As far as I can tell, not a damn thing.
 

Mars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,988
"Karen" kind of is sexist, in a way. Or atleast it's a form of stereotyping. I haven't seen anybody use it in a way that's totally not applicable and deserving but I can imagine it. Alt-righters co-opting it to shit on white women who could be making salient points, but fuck them cause they're virtue signaling Karens. Husbands tired of their nagging Karens, etc.


that's your takeaway from the post? To point out how something that isn't sexist in the least is somehow, by your magical definition, sexist towards white women?

You people are buggin and I hate myself for giving this thread attention again.
 

elLOaSTy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,856
White people of all genders should be willing to call out the white supremacy of other white people.

Like, if a straight white dude runs across a Karen in the midst of bitching out a black person, you want him to preface an intervention with "I know it's not my place to really intervene as I am a white man and thus possess far more privilege and social status than you as a white woman, but...?" It's politically correct, but I'd rather him be expedient about it and just tell her to back the fuck off.

You're right, but it is also correct that Bill Burr is not doing that, his joke is not a signal to ignite a thought into white people about women's role in white supremacy. It's a distraction so white guys and hand wave their partners and family and ignore social justice.

Bill Burr is a a bad faith fuck, that's the issue the the statement. Coming from him makes the intention and framing the problem, not the fact that white women have a long history of racism and privilege.

Bill Burr calling out white women is as meaningless as Mitt Romeny marching at BLM.

Man why the fuck would any of us minorities be offended that a white guy with a platform to do something actually points out some problematic shit that white women refuse to acknowledge? Like what the fuck are you even saying? That cause he is a white guy pointing some shit out is off limits? Says who?

The problem isn't "how do we get white dudes to shut up". The problem is "how do we get white people to understand white supremacy and help us dismantle it". What the fuck are your contributions to this thread doing to further that cause? As far as I can tell, not a damn thing.

Offended no, but as a white guy I can tell you the way he makes this joke is 100% the way I have seen every white person in my life stifle every social justice conversation. It's the langauge white "liberals" and conservatives use to get along with one another.

This won't lead to white people talking about and working out systemic issues, it will lead to white people disengaging. That's the issue, it's not that a white guy did it, it's that THIS white guy did it. I can see right through his shit because I see it all the time. Why else do you think white guys love it. They are all so eager to move past this time where they have to hear about Trump ad whiteness and being a male. They don't care if anything changes, they just don't want to hear it anymore.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,772
you said " Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years " and as a woc, I said my opinion. Are you going to explain what did you mean by " Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years "? I never said "not all white women", please point out where I said it.
Well, white women 'hijacked' MeToo, as the most recent example.
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
Well, white women 'hijacked' MeToo, as the most recent example.
MeToo is for all women because the experience is universal, other countries have their own MeToo, some random white women being racism doesn't 'hijack' it, is still useful.
Man why the fuck would any of us minorities be offended that a white guy with a platform to do something actually points out some problematic shit that white women refuse to acknowledge? Like what the fuck are you even saying? That cause he is a white guy pointing some shit out is off limits? Says who?

The problem isn't "how do we get white dudes to shut up". The problem is "how do we get white people to understand white supremacy and help us dismantle it". What the fuck are your contributions to this thread doing to further that cause? As far as I can tell, not a damn thing.

Like Chooms said, he is doing it in bad faith and yea has a women, I'm cautious about what white men say.
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
Why is it whenever I see someone say "but" its generally followed by some dumb shit thats trying to undermine/discredit anything the previous poster said AND is almost always saud to some PoC.

Should put out there that i'm a white guy and I know bullshit when I see it.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
"Karen" kind of is sexist, in a way. Or atleast it's a form of stereotyping. I haven't seen anybody use it in a way that's totally not applicable and deserving but I can imagine it. Alt-righters co-opting it to shit on white women who could be making salient points, but fuck them cause they're virtue signaling Karens. Husbands tired of their nagging Karens, etc.
tenor.gif
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,772
MeToo is for all women because the experience is universal, other countries have their own MeToo, some random white women being racism doesn't 'hijack' it, is still useful.


Like Chooms said, he is doing it in bad faith and yea has a women, I'm cautious about what white men say.
It's not about white women being "racist", it's the fact that it was started by a Black woman, who's face in the movement and contribution was almost casually erased, until people got angry and spoke up about it.

The whole point is white women don't have to be hand-wringing maniacally behind a curtain to perpetuate white supremacy. They can 'whoopsie' into co-opting a movement. Doesn't have to be inherently malicious.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
MeToo is for all women because the experience is universal, other countries have their own MeToo, some random white women being racism doesn't 'hijack' it, is still useful.

It's not universal because the relationship and experiences of black women in America compared to white women is different. Being useful and the impact across races being comparable isn't the same thing.

It's a movement started by a black woman who doesn't get credit, authority, or recognition for it.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,386
A good (serious) opinion piece to accompany the article: https://qz.com/quartzy/1265902/why-im-giving-up-on-intersectional-feminism/

A choice quote:
It wasn't until I re-read Angela Davis's Women, Race, & Class that I had a change of heart. A biography about American women's liberation from slavery to present, Women, Race, & Class uses history and factual resources to spell out what white women have yet to comprehend; their ignorance and apathy towards the struggle of black women has been to the detriment of any could-be collective feminist movement. While white women were exercising their freedom, black women were fighting to stay alive on the plantation field. When black Americans pleaded with white feminists to support their efforts to gain the right for black men to vote, Susan B Anthony spoke against it. She, along with Elizabeth Stanton and a slew of other white feminists demanded that women be granted the right to vote before Blacks, despite the mass lynchings, race riots, and the KKK, which destroyed black communities simply because they had the voting power to do so. White feminists chose self-interest over the lives of black people. This fundamental decision was the beginning of what is now known as white feminism.
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
It's not about white women being "racist", it's the fact that it was started by a Black woman, who's face in the movement and contribution was almost casually erased, until people got angry and spoke up about it.

The whole point is white women don't have to be hand-wringing maniacally behind a curtain to perpetuate white supremacy. They can 'whoopsie' into co-opting a movement. Doesn't have to be inherently malicious.

Oh yea, I follow more the MeToo from other countries so I didn't pay much attention to that. It sucks she didn't get credit
It's not universal because the relationship and experiences of black women in America compared to white women is different. Being useful and the impact across races being comparable isn't the same thing.

MeToo is about the rape, molestation, abuse, harassment, etc that ALL women suffer. A black or a white women being raped is still raped like wtf you are talking about, like seriously. this can't be good. "It's not universal" IT IS this is why plenty of countries had their own, because ALL women suffer from male violence.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,912
You're right, but it is also correct that Bill Burr is not doing that, his joke is not a signal to ignite a thought into white people about women's role in white supremacy. It's a distraction so white guys and hand wave their partners and family and ignore social justice.
Whether or not he told his joke with the intent to affect social change is neither here nor there. You think black and brown people dunk on white racists only with the intent to enact change? Hell no. Sometimes that shit is just funny, or sometimes we want to rant. Although, I will say--

Offended no, but as a white guy I can tell you the way he makes this joke is 100% the way I have seen every white person in my life stifle every social justice conversation.
It is odd that you are in this thread as a white dude telling black and brown folks how to interpret jokes that ultimately elevate them, simply because a white guy made those jokes and you don't think that's his place. Neener neener. =P
 

gogosox82

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,385
MeToo is for all women because the experience is universal, other countries have their own MeToo, some random white women being racism doesn't 'hijack' it, is still useful.


Like Chooms said, he is doing it in bad faith and yea has a women, I'm cautious about what white men say.
Can you explain how its bad faith because i really don't see how you can come to that conclusion.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
MeToo is about the rape, molestation, abuse, harassment, etc that ALL women suffer. A black or a white women being raped is still raped, like wtf you are talking about, like seriously. this can't be good

When black women say "Me, too" nobody listens. That's the fucking difference.

So shut the fuck up about your universal bullshit.
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
Lmao. Damn chill. I wanna be an ally too. Guess I'll use google then.
Here you go.
www.resetera.com

WaPo Op-Ed Columnist: The ‘Karen’ memes and jokes aren’t sexist or racist. Let a Karen explain.

Here's a WaPo op-ed column I found stating that the jokes and memes involving the name Karen is not racist or sexist and this Op-Ed written by a WaPo columnist whose name is Karen wrote this to try to explain why the jokes and memes aren't racist or sexist...
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,558
Chicago
you said " Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years " and as a woc, I said my opinion. Are you going to explain what did you mean by " Women of color have their movements high jacked for years and years "? I never said "not all white women", please point out where I said it.

You don't have to say something directly to imply it. Real feminism isn't white, it can't be, but it's the only type of feminism that seems to thrive here.

Why do you think that is?
 

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,455
No, you don't. You just want to indulge in prereform allyship.

You don't actually give a single fuck. Otherwise you wouldn't have posted what you did.

Or... I didn't read the OP?

Edit: Wrong article, meant this one.

www.resetera.com

WaPo Op-Ed Columnist: The ‘Karen’ memes and jokes aren’t sexist or racist. Let a Karen explain.

Here's a WaPo op-ed column I found stating that the jokes and memes involving the name Karen is not racist or sexist and this Op-Ed written by a WaPo columnist whose name is Karen wrote this to try to explain why the jokes and memes aren't racist or sexist...

But sure, guess I don't wanna be an ally cause I didn't know any better?
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
When black women say "Me, too" nobody listens. That's the fucking difference.

So shut the fuck up about your universal bullshit.

Succinctly put, thank you

You are a man, you have no idea how important this was for women. If you don't get it, those movements are women talking about their experiences, it was for us. "nobody listens" who is nobody? because I listened and other women did too, it was for US . The suffering of women in the hands of men IS universal, how dare you imply being "universal" is bullshit.

Literally manexplaining MeToo.
 
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Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,565
You're right, but it is also correct that Bill Burr is not doing that, his joke is not a signal to ignite a thought into white people about women's role in white supremacy. It's a distraction so white guys and hand wave their partners and family and ignore social justice.

Bill Burr is a a bad faith fuck, that's the issue the the statement. Coming from him makes the intention and framing the problem, not the fact that white women have a long history of racism and privilege.

Bill Burr calling out white women is as meaningless as Mitt Romeny marching at BLM.



Offended no, but as a white guy I can tell you the way he makes this joke is 100% the way I have seen every white person in my life stifle every social justice conversation. It's the langauge white "liberals" and conservatives use to get along with one another.

No offense my guy but you are not saying anything here. What he said is not controversial among minorities. That exact same delivery from a black person would not bat a single eyelash. The only people who feel some type of way about this are white people. Saying "this is how white people stifle social justic conversations" would be relevant if he wasn't the person using his time to literally start a conversation. Yeah, some white guys will get off on this like "see, you're just as bad as us". Let me ask you, "why do I give a fuck?"

And just so we are clear because you should hear it straight. No, you do not have a better grasp on the damage bad faith actors can do to battling systemic racism than the multitude of black and brown people in this thread telling you otherwise. You literally are doing this "I know better". You don't dude. I'm fluent dog whistle and this aint it.

This won't lead to white people talking about and working out systemic issues, it will lead to white people disengaging. That's the issue, it's not that a white guy did it, it's that THIS white guy did it. I can see right through his shit because I see it all the time. Why else do you think white guys love it. They are all so eager to move past this time where they have to hear about Trump ad whiteness and being a male. They don't care if anything changes, they just don't want to hear it anymore.

Again, no offense but white people aint do shit to advance issue of systemic racism. So why you out here acting like yall have done fuck all to begin with? Literally you have not. Every major advancement in civil rights for black people is built off the backs and hard work of black people. That's why the whole idealism of "I can see through it", and "white dudes love this" you are presenting is irrelevant. Who cares? News flash dude, black people aint done beating on white males for their part in systemic racism. You think this is it? We done now that Bill Burr talked some shit?

I'm not buying what your selling. And I dont need "from a white guy" as if I dont know what white people are like about minority issues.
 
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