-
If you have been following the news, you should be aware that the people of Lebanon have been under a violent bombardment that has recently escalated. Please consider donating to help them if you can or trying to spread word of the fundraiser.
-
Asheville and Western North Carolina at large are in crisis after Helene, please consider contributing to these local organizations and helping the people whose lives have been destroyed.
Andor |OT| One Way Out [SPOILERS ON EPISODE DROP]
- Thread starter WadiumArcadium
- Start date
- OT
Goddamn what a season of television. My absolute favorite show of 2022, top 10 shows of all time maybe, in the conversation for top 3 Star Wars and a good second/final season would easily cement it as #1
View: https://twitter.com/asgd1998/status/1590293055206481924
Final post credits shot is insane, it took the Empire 4 more years to go from this to fully armed and operational battle station
were those the things they were making in prison?
There's a good chance the series does a lot of bridge-building toward Rogue One from here. It'll be fascinating to see the trail of breadcrumbs that leads the Alliance to discover the Death Star. So I didn't so much see it as a wink-type reference as a tease for the trajectory of Season 2.
Sure. I loved the Prison stuff and I thought it was very obvious that they were building stuff for the Death Star. I didn't need to be spoon fed that at the end. So that's the main issue.
The Death Star itself isn't really relevant to the Andor story at this point, (which is why it was in the post credits) so it was just a really annoying piece of fan service that took away from the excellent ending scene before the credits.
Good point! Ties into Rogue One and the OT, the whole gist of the show is to provide background and context of the rebels, who are already established in ANH.
I was just trying to tell the poster that his gripes with that scene are not really warranted haha
It's cool that you think so, but there were still people theorizing on it and when it comes to displaying fascism it's good to show aggressively and not just let people fill in the blanks or hope they figured it out. It's good to let people know the fascist empire used slave labor to build their weapons of mass destruction.
Andor's series finale is Rogue One, the Death Star is quite literally relevant always.
e:
To be clear, Season 2 is a direct lead up into Rogue One, we already know this. The Death Star is immensely important and there had to be something to bridge the show into it otherwise it functionally does not work as a prequel to Rogue One.
Cassian building something that will lead to his death is pretty damn poetic though. The fact that it's the laser itself speak volume to the severity of Death Star, before Abrams ruins it with Starkiller.
I keep telling people some SWs fans have PTSD.
A 10 second post credits shot of the Death Star when the when the entire show is about how Andor ends up in the place where he gives his life to find out about it and help destroy it should not be any sort of controversial but here we are...
A 10 second post credits shot of the Death Star when the when the entire show is about how Andor ends up in the place where he gives his life to find out about it and help destroy it should not be any sort of controversial but here we are...
Sure, but I said I don't think it's necessary, either from a story standpoint or in terms of including that specific scene in the show.
Again, not a big deal, just came across as the kind of unnecessary fanservice from the previous shows.
Someone saying they didn't like a specific scene isn't making it "controversial".
It's not fan service. Cassian is literally killed by the Death Star. Like, the scene marks the trajectory of his story, and also the story of the whole rebellian that culminates in the destruction of the Death Star.
It's not there for cheap wink wink nudge nudge.
I would say in regards to the post credits scene, it doesn't detract from the story or anything, but it isn't presented in an Andor like manner compared to a lot of the rest of the show.
Normally this sort of imagery would be framed as part of a character's perspective. Someone looks out on the Death Star and sees their hard work paying off, or whatever. Or maybe someone from the jail arc is back in the system, and finds out what they're doing. There *is* thematic meaning in the death star's construction, but it's entirely within the plot point as written ("the death star is being built with the parts from the prison") and not within the framing which is a 10 second CGI shot with no one else present after the credits.
It would not surprise me if a studio exec was like "we need to tickle the audience's balls a little bit so they're excited for season 2, we need a post credits scene, what can we show" and this was a relatively small reveal compared to Luthen being a jedi or whatever, that still tied into the story's future.
Normally this sort of imagery would be framed as part of a character's perspective. Someone looks out on the Death Star and sees their hard work paying off, or whatever. Or maybe someone from the jail arc is back in the system, and finds out what they're doing. There *is* thematic meaning in the death star's construction, but it's entirely within the plot point as written ("the death star is being built with the parts from the prison") and not within the framing which is a 10 second CGI shot with no one else present after the credits.
It would not surprise me if a studio exec was like "we need to tickle the audience's balls a little bit so they're excited for season 2, we need a post credits scene, what can we show" and this was a relatively small reveal compared to Luthen being a jedi or whatever, that still tied into the story's future.
Obviosuly there are dumb people who need this stuff spoon fed to them, but up to this point Andor hans't been that kind of show which is why that scene is a bit shit.
It literally is a cheap wink wink nudge nudge because your reading of the scene only works if you've seen Rogue One and know the story. Which obviously most people watching the show do.
I can see why some people dislike the post credits because having the show explicitly show you something in totally CG sequence is kind of outside the DNA of the rest of the show. There was probably a more subtle way to present the same information that was less in your face. For me, it was in the post credits so eh, not a big deal.
Yes. Later in the episode a couple of ISB agents are discussing that conversation and suggesting that gambling debts could explain the oddities in their banking. So it worked, as far as we know at this time.
Too bad she didn't think of it before meeting with that creep who wants her daughter to marry his son.
Well duh, it's the direct prequel to Rogue One. It's natural for a work of fiction to communicate with and be informed by the works that came before it. It being set in the past doesn't mean that it must pretend that connecting works don't exist.
Seem like cassians sister will come into play in season 2
Gilroy also talked a bit about the post credits
And some disappointing news: none of the directors for S1 are returning for S2:
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Gilroy also talked a bit about the post credits
And some disappointing news: none of the directors for S1 are returning for S2:
‘Andor’ Creator Tony Gilroy Talks Luthen’s Good Day, That Post-Credit Scene and Season Two
The showrunner looks at the challenges and lessons that will carry him into the conclusion of the critically acclaimed 'Star Wars' show: "The second jump out of the airplane is more terrifying."
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Well she presumably wants to keep spending money discreetly, throwing her husband under the bus would only work for so long even if she thought of it sooner I imagine
Man, that funeral Maarva speech had me tearing up. It was beautiful and powerful. Luthen's progression throughout this episode was stellar, too. As others pointed out, it was just the kind of thing he needed to witness and thanks to it, the final scene with him and Andor make perfect sense, of course.
That being said, it still felt a tiny bit artificial with almost all the major characters converging on Ferrix. If nothing else, it was Syril and the other weirdo getting there and Syril literally saving Dedra that was pushing it. It also just meant there were so many different characters to cut between, that it became a bit messy. Cass saving Bix wasn't very exciting.
The post-credits scene was honestly very expected. There was just too much attention to detail with the prison factory and what they produce for it not to be part of the Death Star. Thematically it makes sense in a lot of ways, too. Still can't say it necessarily felt right as a post-season scene, though. Having it in another episode might've been better.
That being said, it still felt a tiny bit artificial with almost all the major characters converging on Ferrix. If nothing else, it was Syril and the other weirdo getting there and Syril literally saving Dedra that was pushing it. It also just meant there were so many different characters to cut between, that it became a bit messy. Cass saving Bix wasn't very exciting.
The post-credits scene was honestly very expected. There was just too much attention to detail with the prison factory and what they produce for it not to be part of the Death Star. Thematically it makes sense in a lot of ways, too. Still can't say it necessarily felt right as a post-season scene, though. Having it in another episode might've been better.
The DNA of the show is that it's a Star Wars show. Should they not show Storm Troopers as well because it's too on the mark? Or the Senate Chambers from the prequel trilogy? Or the numerous other SW references because...this is the Star Wars universe? I'm surprised more people didn't complain about Canto Bright being referenced in regards to gambling (unless people did earlier in this thread)
What was artificial about that? The entire lead up was that everyone was looking for Cassian and everyone figured he'd be there for his mother's funeral. This wasn't some chance convergence. Everyone came there at the same time intentionally
I don't disagree with anything you've said here. But none of this means that a shitty fan service scene was required post-credits. But we still got one and it detracted from the epsiode a little.
This line got me almost cutting onions:
How Andor and Luthen meet up at the end and Andor made up his mind to be part of the cause. The emotion on Andor's face when he was talking about not being able to meet his mother.
God what a good episode and that ending of building the Death Star.
We got to wait 2 more years? Fuck... I hope the other Star Wars show take notes from this.
How Andor and Luthen meet up at the end and Andor made up his mind to be part of the cause. The emotion on Andor's face when he was talking about not being able to meet his mother.
God what a good episode and that ending of building the Death Star.
We got to wait 2 more years? Fuck... I hope the other Star Wars show take notes from this.
Two observations.
1) Maybe the show is called Andor because of how important both Cassian and Maarva are to the Rebellion.
2) I wish hammer clock man had used one of his hammers to yeet the Imp off the tower.
1) Maybe the show is called Andor because of how important both Cassian and Maarva are to the Rebellion.
2) I wish hammer clock man had used one of his hammers to yeet the Imp off the tower.
When they said that I was picturing TLJ haters all like
I love how disappointed people are that he didn't do this lol
😂😂😂When they said that I was picturing TLJ haters all like
You're probably not wrong
By DNA I mean how the show is shot. The show has an incredibly grounded feel because it uses a lot of practical effects, props and on site shooting. We also spend almost all our time seeing the world through the eyes of the characters rather than wide establishing shots of CG environments. Having a sequence that is exclusively CG just doesn't feel like it's coming from the same show. Again, it's not a big deal at all for me, I just think the same information could have been more subtlety executed.
Well, I stated it. With even Syril and his weirdo buddy making it there and then Syril saving the day, that made it feel a bit much. It's also just that you then have so many scenes cutting between all the characters that it was actively noticeable and a tad less immersive.
It's not a huge complaint, though. Just one of few things that made it a great but not perfect conclusion for me.
My point is that it's not a fan service. Your argument that it's wink wink nudge nudge because my "reading of the scene only works if you've seen Rogue One and know the story" is weird to me because this show directly connects to that movie.
It's a follow up story to that movie, featuring a lot of the major players of the movie, continuing the movie's theme of rebellion under oppression. And that movie is explicitly about the Death Star as the ultimate symbol of oppression. Why shouldn't it appear here?
Last edited:
Last episode we literally had a scene were multiple tie fighters and an Imperial ship's tractor beam were taken out by Luthen before he jumped away. I don't see how this was any less grounded than that. It is still a Star Wars show and despite being grounded it'll always connect back to the larger, less grounded, movies
yup, those weird big devices they were assembling were then used by robots on the Death Star to assemble the focus panels to concentrate the khyber crystal beam into a single destructive blast. Although I guess technically the death star produces 3 beams from 3 areas which get focused into 1 final beam, or as Rogue One showed they can just deploy 1 beam to destroy only a continent instead of an entire planet.
Anyways yeah after a lot of speculation on what exactly the prisons were making, its all part of the war machine to assemble the Death Star. So the clock was ticking on those guys anyways, once their part is done they probably get all killed anyways, I think in Rebels or Clone Wars they discover the Geonosians (flying insect people in prequels) were genocided by the Empire after their part in designing the Death Star was complete.
Let's imagine another world where this scene wasn't in the episode. Would there be anyone here saying "Why didn't the Death Star show up?". No. So it's not essential to the story of season 1 of Andor. It's a knowing nod to where the story is going. Or as most would call it: Fan service.
If you liked the scene more power to you. I'm happy you got to see the Death Star finally. I thought it was a shit fan service scene that negatively impacted the ending of the episode.
It was fanservice, and it was rightfully put in a post-credit scene as it's not really that relevant from what actually happened in the last 12 episodes
We saw that sequence through Luthen and the bridge crew of the star destroyer's eyes. Go and rewatch that sequence, we never go more than two shots in a row of CG ships in space before we're back in the cockpit or bridge with the characters. That is what I mean by grounded, because these fantastical things are always framed from the point of view of the characters within them which helps make them feel more real, rather than just a CG thing. That's what I feel was missing from the Death Star stringer.
Howled at the post-credits scene after it had been one of the common "it's not that type of show" refrains lol, myself included. Safe to say they earned that bit of fanservice.
At this point it's "Oh this scene had slightly less than this completely arbitrary amount of CG so it's okay...let's just agree to disagree. I personally see so meaningful difference between the two
Another important answer about the plot from Gilroy in the THR interview; about Mothma's move to blame her husband for the missing money. Someone asked about this earlier this morning:
Oh, and Gilroy actually admits the Death Star post-credits scene is an exception to his rule of we never seeing something our main characters aren't seeing. Which is why we don't see the Kreegyr ambush.
Oh, and Gilroy actually admits the Death Star post-credits scene is an exception to his rule of we never seeing something our main characters aren't seeing. Which is why we don't see the Kreegyr ambush.
I don't consider the post credits scene to be fan service whatsoever. It's a glimpse at, a reminder of, the blade hanging over Andor's neck. "Don't forget, this is the end game." It's the final mission he has no idea he's going to sign up for, and it's his inexorable doom.
Keeping Kreegyr offscreen was the right move, I think. Highlights the fact that there are/were all sorts of nameless people fighting the Empire, many of whom will never been seen or have their stories told and the vast majority never getting to be the hero of the story. It also plays up the ruthless efficiency of the Empire/ISB to have him/his group disposed off like that.
Plus it's fun to leave it open as to whether Luthen's (and Saw's, I guess) decision to sacrifice Kreegyr was the right one or not. Maybe Kreegyr would have ended up being the Rebellion's greatest hero had he lived, maybe he would have died the next day, there's all sorts of possibilities.
What exactly is the reason the crowd riots in this one? Just years of resentment that has built up over the Imperial presence? I can understand that but it seems like it's just written that there should be a riot in there to just make it easier for Cassian to rescue Bix amid all the chaos. All of those people there for a funeral start rioting and then getting arrested and shot for... what? A temporary fuck you to the Imperials? I don't think that's enough of a motivation. So many people got hurt and killed over a riot that had no end goal or anything. People need a reason to rise up, and while resentment over the Imperial yoke is fair enough, it didn't seem like there was any reason to risk their otherwise mostly peaceful lives even with Maarva talking about the unfairness of it all and urging them to do so. They had no goal at all and it just ended in a large number of them getting killed for no reason at all.
Other than that, another great episode and I'm looking forward to more in the series. Who knew television shows would end up being Star Wars' saving grace and the films (mostly) reviled? The Mandalorian, Boba Fett, Obi-Wan and now Andor aren't perfect but they're entertaining me far more than any of the post-Lucas film releases. Long may the quality releases last.
Other than that, another great episode and I'm looking forward to more in the series. Who knew television shows would end up being Star Wars' saving grace and the films (mostly) reviled? The Mandalorian, Boba Fett, Obi-Wan and now Andor aren't perfect but they're entertaining me far more than any of the post-Lucas film releases. Long may the quality releases last.
I mean sure we disagree, but I feel like you're really misrepresenting what I'm saying. It's not about the amount of CG at all. This quote that Joeytj just posted shows Gilroy himself agreeing with what I'm saying:
Built up resentment, not to mention they increased their presence on Ferrix recently due to Cass' actions, shit just reached a boiling point after the speech
Even before that they were being rebellious in their own way by disobeying the rules they were supposed to follow for the funeral
If it means we get more Ben Mendelson in S2 I'm all for it. I loved that end scene. So campy and ridiculous. But exactly that is what makes it Star Wars to me. Right from opening shot of A New Hope the ridiculousness of the size different between the Tantive IV and the Star Destroyer that just goes on and on and on over the camera to increasingly swelling John Williams score emphasizing that ridiculousness of what they're up against... They constantly do that. Just to remind you. I thought it worked perfectly well lol
They tipped over the cute droid. That's a riot on sight in most of the galaxy.
I ended up only being able to watch one more before I had to stop. At least I have more Andor to look forward to for just a little longer :\
But yeah, episode 11 also ruled. I threw out a loud "holy shit!" when it went very, very Gundam all of a sudden.