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Paradoxes shown before launch or after?

  • Before

    Votes: 145 41.9%
  • After

    Votes: 201 58.1%

  • Total voters
    346
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DevilPuncher

"This guy are sick" and Aggressively Mediocre
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,775
So while waiting for something new with Legend Arceus, I checked youtube to see if anyone is doing "tech analysis" for PLA (like BrainChild used to do for BOTW, SwSh, Smash for GameXplain).
Somehow a lot of the result was about "how Pokemon lost its magic", "how to kill a 90b franchise", "qUaLity AniMatIoN", etc. basically shitting on GF "lazy".

So I decided to check the channel that posted those vids (not the vid because it's clearly all about the same things).
No wonder a lot of those types of video popup a lot for the past few years, those videos over-performed way beyond those channels lmao.

Channels with under 10k subscribers but have hundreds of thousands of views for only that video, or millions of views for 100k subscribers. All of those videos are either the most views or at the tops of the most popular videos (especially that DK guy who clearly became famous for shitting on GF for the past few years).

BTW: if anyone know any of the actual informative channel about tech analysis of game then please recommend to me, and I mean "tech" like talk about anti-alias, texture, framerate, like BrainChild video I mentioned earlier, not game design (GMTK, Thomas Game Docs, etc.).
From what I've heard, overtly negative content like that tends to do better with YouTube's algorithm so that probably explains the view count on a lot of those videos. Couple that with the general disdain that a particularly loud (and somewhat sizable, truthfully) subset of the Pokémon audience feels towards GameFreak and boom: you've got some primo content.
 

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,618
I think if the game runs well the graphics won't be the biggest deal breaker for reviewers.
 

mnk

Member
Nov 11, 2017
6,412
I really think comparing it to monster hunter this hard is weird. There are some strucutral similarities but that series is 90% about combat and multiplayer where as the focus with legends is clearly on exploration and resource gathering/pokedex stuff. I really don't think they're gonna feel similar at all

Granted I could just be filling in the blanks differently than you given legends as a whole still feels a little vague, but I still think monhun is judged more by its moment to moment combat than the conceit around it
I think the Noble fights are also supposed to evoke the same sense of fighting a tough monster in MH. I imagine we're also supposed to learn about the Noble Pokemon, gather ingredients based on that information, and craft the balms in preparation for the fights. That part might even be confirmed? I can't remember. You then go in there and whittle them down with action-based combat.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,443
MC Scores:

BDSP: 73
SWSH: 80
LGP/LGE: 79.5
USUM: 84
SM: 87
ORAS: 82.5
XY: 87.5

For reference, the DS era we all remember fondly:

B2W2: 80
BW: 87
HGSS: 87
Plat: 83
DP: 85

Turns out BDSP is by far the worst reviewed of any mainline Pokemon from the last 16 years, probably because of the surface level "bad chibi grafix are BAD" take.

fully expect LA to pass 80 solely thanks to its camera
 

Fnnrqwin

Member
Sep 19, 2019
2,325
Turns out BDSP is by far the worst reviewed of any mainline Pokemon from the last 16 years, probably because of the surface level "bad chibi grafix are BAD" take.

The game doesn't even get remotely fun until you beat the Elite Four, outside how nice the more free-form exploration is. But that exploration still leads you to finding the same 5 or 6 Pokémon that are available on every route.

Pokémon games review higher than they rightly should, but BDSP is the closest to accurate they've had in a long time.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,658
Spain
The game doesn't even get remotely fun until you beat the Elite Four, outside how nice the more free-form exploration is. But that exploration still leads you to finding the same 5 or 6 Pokémon that are available on every route.

Pokémon games review higher than they rightly should, but BDSP is the closest to accurate they've had in a long time.
Maybe people like them more than you.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,351
Sun and Moon and USUM sitting in the upper echelon of reviews as they rightfully should
 

Perigeu

Member
Jan 9, 2018
118
Brazil
Seeing the list of all the mainline games like this made me realize one, maybe obvious, thing... Game Freak at least seems to get way better when they get to have a second go at the same hardware: 2nd gen >>> 1st; 5th >>> 4th and 7th >>> 6th.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,169
The 19B one is Stylized Station, a fucking ue4 art tutorial channel
Ah that's who I want to go to for in-depth knowledge of Pokémon

All those videos about how the Pokémon franchise is failing etc. all have so many fundamental issues. I approached one of them about it last year but they reacted badly and accused me of getting fans to harass them when some other people came in and backed up my points

It's part of why I made the page about company structure on Serebii. I make lots of pages out of spite due to people being wrong and refusing to back down. Like when people said "Pokémon is never in Nintendo Directs", I went through every single Nintendo Direct since 2011 and listed every instance of Pokémon in it
 

PirateKingERA

Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,125
Houston, Texas
Seeing the list of all the mainline games like this made me realize one, maybe obvious, thing... Game Freak at least seems to get way better when they get to have a second go at the same hardware: 2nd gen >>> 1st; 5th >>> 4th and 7th >>> 6th.
Yeah really hope they have an improved product for 9th gen, while I did love SwSh for what it is, there is a lot of room for improvements, I'm hoping we can see some of that vision in PLA.
 

Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
9,185
Seeing the list of all the mainline games like this made me realize one, maybe obvious, thing... Game Freak at least seems to get way better when they get to have a second go at the same hardware: 2nd gen >>> 1st; 5th >>> 4th and 7th >>> 6th.

Yeah I recognized this trend back when Gen 7 first came out. I almost always come away liking the second go more. Honestly I figured that would be what would happen with LGO ---> SwSh but alas.. if LA falters maybe Gen 9 will come back strong but I wish they would just get it right on the first go.
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,693
The Great Dark Beyond
Yep, last two years it has been a surefire way to get views. It's why some news sites are pushing it hard too, gets the clicks

Let me guess, it was someone who has Kingdoms in the Distant

I recently looked up some Pokémon videos on YouTube (mostly was trying to find something like lore deep dives lol because listening to videos helps me fall asleep) and all of my recommendations now are like the same three dudes telling me how the franchise is dead and awful and everything is terrible, etc. etc. and I'm like... "YouTube, please stop."

Despite clearing my watch history it still appears. Make it stop, please.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,621
Here's a thought - what are going to be the Noble Pokemon aka the Boss monsters - my guess is there will be one per reigon/area
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,693
The Great Dark Beyond
Here's a thought - what are going to be the Noble Pokemon aka the Boss monsters - my guess is there will be one per reigon/area

I was thinking each ride form could be a Noble boss and you earn them via defeating them.

But then I also assume beating the Nobles allows you to catch them? I'm not sure how that works. Maybe they're more like Totem Pokemon in that sense.


I can still hear the Pokémon Stadium dude's voice in my head for any Gen1/2 names even though I haven't played those games since they were new. T-ANGELA is my favorite character on the PokeOffice tbh.



enjoy, y'all.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,380
Midgar, With Love
I was thinking each ride form could be a Noble boss and you earn them via defeating them.

But then I also assume beating the Nobles allows you to catch them? I'm not sure how that works. Maybe they're more like Totem Pokemon in that sense.



I can still hear the Pokémon Stadium dude's voice in my head for any Gen1/2 names even though I haven't played those games since they were new. T-ANGELA is my favorite character on the PokeOffice tbh.



enjoy, y'all.


"Goooooone! It's a one-hit wonder!" <3
 

Fendoreo1

Member
Jan 1, 2019
15,688
I really do wonder what they'll take from PLA into gen 9 in 2023. My guess is that seamless battles will stay and some sort of pokemon mounts, not sure what else beyond that
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,169
I recently looked up some Pokémon videos on YouTube (mostly was trying to find something like lore deep dives lol because listening to videos helps me fall asleep) and all of my recommendations now are like the same three dudes telling me how the franchise is dead and awful and everything is terrible, etc. etc. and I'm like... "YouTube, please stop."

Despite clearing my watch history it still appears. Make it stop, please.
I was going to do some deep dive videos into how things actually are and actually work, but nobody would watch them because they're not doomsaying and agreeing with preconceived notions and confirmation bias

It's a shame that it's how Youtube has progressed
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,693
The Great Dark Beyond
"Goooooone! It's a one-hit wonder!" <3

THE FINAL GYM LEADER JI-VANI

I was going to do some deep dive videos into how things actually are and actually work, but nobody would watch them because they're not doomsaying and agreeing with preconceived notions and confirmation bias

It's a shame that it's how Youtube has progressed

I would, lol! I'm sure others would too. I don't really get news from YouTube so those types of "I'm Joey from GameXplain with a quick news update" videos aren't something I want to invest 2 minutes and 34 seconds into (no shade, Joey. I bought Metroid Dread!) I just avoid clickbait like the plague and also refuse to use clickbait titles in anything I upload (which isn't Pokémon related but still).

TLDR; depending on how much you enjoy making/editing videos, it would be nice to have facts and research presented in a concise, maybe entertaining? way. I think there needs to be more of that in general.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,380
Midgar, With Love
I was going to do some deep dive videos into how things actually are and actually work, but nobody would watch them because they're not doomsaying and agreeing with preconceived notions and confirmation bias

It's a shame that it's how Youtube has progressed

I'd watch the hell out of them. Unfortunately, I'm one person.
 

Fendoreo1

Member
Jan 1, 2019
15,688
I love how the nintendo twitter keeps tweeting out clips from the August trailer to advertise PLA since GF refuses to release new info prerelease this gen lmao
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,693
The Great Dark Beyond
also, re: trailers (and I'm not trying to stir shit up with anyone) but the compression on them is fucking gross. I have really, really good internet and YouTube just butchers them even when they're running with no lag/at the proper resolution. Bleh.
 

klauskpm

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,267
Brazil
Like when people said "Pokémon is never in Nintendo Directs", I went through every single Nintendo Direct since 2011 and listed every instance of Pokémon in it
Oh yeah. There was a topic like that in here right? I remember you rightfully called me out on that. Thanks for that and also creating that page. I already used it huahuahuahha.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
I don't know what review scores people wanted for BDSP, lol.

It's a very standard Pokemon game except with the worst graphics of any $60 game on Switch by a huge margin.

The environments just have no life to them at all, there's blur everywhere despite an extremely small scale and no detail and few effects, there's no facial animations for the chibis... It was Pokemon but very very ugly.
 

Fnnrqwin

Member
Sep 19, 2019
2,325
No your point was that all other pokemon games should have reviewed worse.
Sure bud, thank you for telling me my own point lol.

BDSP are not that good, and as much as I love the Pokémon franchise for the overall gameplay loop I don't see what's so wild about thinking it's crazy games from Gen 6 and on have somehow mostly reviewed as well as the DS ones. It seems like a pretty commonly held refrain.

I would still give Sun and Moon something in the 80s, but I can't imagine walking away from Gen 6 or Gen 8, even if those are your first games, and thinking they're in the 80-90 range. It's all opinions, but saying somebody's take on this makes no sense is disingenuous at best.
 

spyroflame0487

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,108
I think the focus on open world will stay though i could see it being one major city and several smaller ones
I think an "Open world" structure is here to stay. I don't see how they go back to normal "routes" any more. There still will have to be some sort of blockade to funnel people through the overarching story and point them in the right direction but i think more areas like the Wild Area/PLA will be the norm going forward.

It was clear to me the more we saw of that and open exploration being the focus with the two SwSh DLC too. I still think the level design of Crown Tundra was fantastic but really needed some sort of guidance system because it was super easy to get lost/not being able to access a certain area because you went the wrong way. With more traversal tools/Pokemon i think it'll make having crazy layered systems like that easier.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,621
I think an "Open world" structure is here to stay. I don't see how they go back to normal "routes" any more. There still will have to be some sort of blockade to funnel people through the overarching story and point them in the right direction but i think more areas like the Wild Area/PLA will be the norm going forward.

It was clear to me the more we saw of that and open exploration being the focus with the two SwSh DLC too. I still think the level design of Crown Tundra was fantastic but really needed some sort of guidance system because it was super easy to get lost/not being able to access a certain area because you went the wrong way. With more traversal tools/Pokemon i think it'll make having crazy layered systems like that easier.
Agreed, i personally think going back to normal routes for the most part would be a massive step back
 

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,863
Sure bud, thank you for telling me my own point lol.

BDSP are not that good, and as much as I love the Pokémon franchise for the overall gameplay loop I don't see what's so wild about thinking it's crazy games from Gen 6 and on have somehow mostly reviewed as well as the DS ones. It seems like a pretty commonly held refrain.

I would still give Sun and Moon something in the 80s, but I can't imagine walking away from Gen 6 or Gen 8, even if those are your first games, and thinking they're in the 80-90 range. It's all opinions, but saying somebody's take on this makes no sense is disingenuous at best.

Sorry you had to had people jump on you like that for stating facts lmao

BDSP walked back MANY features for no apparent reason and suddenly saying they deserve their scores is because of bad graphics bandwagoning?

This kinda thing is why I usually avoid pokemon threads.
 

Atheerios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,131
Things that should stay for the next game:

- Open areas
- Seamless battles
- Much improved UI with less friction
- Catching Pokémon in the overworld without battling
- Boss Pokémon battles (this has been present in some way for two generations already though, so is probably staying)
- Controllable camera in 100% of the game, including battles
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,910
I think the Noble fights are also supposed to evoke the same sense of fighting a tough monster in MH. I imagine we're also supposed to learn about the Noble Pokemon, gather ingredients based on that information, and craft the balms in preparation for the fights. That part might even be confirmed? I can't remember. You then go in there and whittle them down with action-based combat.
I do wonder how balms work during them, because in the video the player actually has infinite balms

Things that should stay for the next game:

- Open areas
- Seamless battles
- Much improved UI with less friction
- Catching Pokémon in the overworld without battling
- Boss Pokémon battles (this has been present in some way for two generations already though, so is probably staying)
- Controllable camera in 100% of the game, including battles
I hate how these have to be considered "features" as opposed to natural evolutions of the gameplay that we shouldn't have to hope return
 

effin

Member
Jan 20, 2019
210
Despite how painfully ugly the game is, it looks like it has some fairly good gameplay loops setup. That 13 min video did its job and actually has me quite interested.

Whether or not they stick the landing I really hope they continue to iterate on the format, cause it certainly appears to have the bones of something that could be really good.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I think an "Open world" structure is here to stay. I don't see how they go back to normal "routes" any more. There still will have to be some sort of blockade to funnel people through the overarching story and point them in the right direction but i think more areas like the Wild Area/PLA will be the norm going forward.

It was clear to me the more we saw of that and open exploration being the focus with the two SwSh DLC too. I still think the level design of Crown Tundra was fantastic but really needed some sort of guidance system because it was super easy to get lost/not being able to access a certain area because you went the wrong way. With more traversal tools/Pokemon i think it'll make having crazy layered systems like that easier.
the blockades would have to evolve from the "we're standing here for no reason, we'll disappear for no reason". probably a "you need x badges to enter". the best option would be to allow any order of gyms and to separate gym progression from main plot progression. Gen 1 largely did this and I'm surprised they haven't brought it back
 

PirateKingERA

Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,125
Houston, Texas
Sure bud, thank you for telling me my own point lol.

BDSP are not that good, and as much as I love the Pokémon franchise for the overall gameplay loop I don't see what's so wild about thinking it's crazy games from Gen 6 and on have somehow mostly reviewed as well as the DS ones. It seems like a pretty commonly held refrain.

I would still give Sun and Moon something in the 80s, but I can't imagine walking away from Gen 6 or Gen 8, even if those are your first games, and thinking they're in the 80-90 range. It's all opinions, but saying somebody's take on this makes no sense is disingenuous at best.
I think BDSP getting a 73 is very fair, as is 80 for SwSh and the other scores, what I think is disingenuous is thinking because you didn't enjoy the games as much as others then their score is inflated, but in reality this whole discussion is stupid imo, and I regret starting it in the first place.
 
Mar 30, 2019
425
It's a very standard Pokemon game except with the worst graphics of any $60 game on Switch by a huge margin

No. It looks WAY better than Dynasty Warriors 9 for exemple.
Different artstyle but I also think DC Super Hero Girls etc looks worse:
NSwitch_DCSuperHeroGirlsTeenPower_WonderWoman_Combat_05.jpg

How about No More Heroes 3?
NSwitch_NoMoreHeroes3_36.jpg


And it also looks way better than Sword/Shield etc....
 

Beary Jams

Member
Nov 5, 2017
447
Portland, OR
I was going to do some deep dive videos into how things actually are and actually work, but nobody would watch them because they're not doomsaying and agreeing with preconceived notions and confirmation bias

It's a shame that it's how Youtube has progressed

Please do it. That's exactly the kind of content I like to put on when I'm browsing YouTube before bed or just want to kill some time. I'd throw money into a Patreon too if you'd need an extra financial insentive to get it going.
 
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