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Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
So in Montreal it was the first working day with reduced public transportation frequency. As expected this led to too many people on buses and in the metro during rush hour. Bravo. Exactly the opposite of what they should do.

And now essential services will close one day a week to give workers a break. Hopefully this won't be the case with grocery stores otherwise it will just increase congestion. It's one of the reasons why « depanneurs » should stay open.
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
All i needed to see was "little to no science evidence."

Here's a study on nicotine for covid-19 :

FEBS Press


It's a very short read.

Since studies on the effects of e‐cigs on RAS are inconclusive, there is no asking to stop use of them over here, just try to be sensible and be mindful that ongoing studies could resolve the understudied state and inconclusiveness with a less than pleasing conclusion for users as of the interaction between the two. As they say "smoking appears to participate in a direct cellular process that effects COVID‐19 infection and possible outcome, in a mechanism involving the ability of the nicotinic receptor to regulate ACE2 protein expression in cells".

also, nicotine acts on fibrogenesis on its own, no need for a SARS-CoV2 for that:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

General mechanisms of nicotine-induced fibrogenesis

Cigarette smoking contributes to the development of cancer, and pathogenesis of other diseases. Many chemicals have been identified in cigarettes that have potent biological properties. Nicotine is especially known for its role in addiction and plays ...
"In many organ systems, nicotine modulates fibrosis by altering the functions of fibroblasts."
"To date, the data support nicotine's fibrogenic actions in cardiac, renal, lung, oral, and other organs and is currently under evaluation in the liver."

I conclude of that, that it may lengthen recovery of patients that had a severe form of the disease or prevent lung function recovery.

Still, we are all adults, just be informed that there are risks involved.
There usually is not a real absolute good or bad, it's the dose that matters, so be reasonable, for your health.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,020
This is how countries will bridge the gap until a viable vaccine is produced.


How would that work? You set up threshold like 80% of the employees certified it's fine to lift the lockdown for that workplace and risk the other 20% to spread it further? Will the companies push you to get infected sooner so they can open? Or fire all the non-certified employees? Will the companies bid for the certified people and the richest one will be able to open much sooner?

Honestly this sounds like a recipe for disaster (capitalism).
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,290
seems like all these states going into a late lockdown are going to be better financially then those who played it safe. I can't imagine what would happen to so many businesses in Illinois if stayed on lockdown till June



This is how countries will bridge the gap until a viable vaccine is produced.


I can see people getting fired, laid off or not hired on due to this. Smart move....want to get back to working? Well better getting the virus faster.
 

Deleted member 8741

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,917
seems like all these states going into a late lockdown are going to be better financially then those who played it safe. I can't imagine what would happen to so many businesses in Illinois if stayed on lockdown till June

I can see people getting fired, laid off or not hired on due to this. Smart move....want to get back to working? Well better getting the virus faster.

It only looks like that now. Wait until those states who waited see much more dead citizens and can't contain the spread even into June.
 

Fitzgerald

Member
Feb 23, 2018
368
Thats stupid because we dont even know if you are immune after you go through the disease (or if you are to what degree). There have been reinfection cases already.
I hear this more often but it's not true. If you clear a virus by yourself, you're by definition immune as you have made antibodies. The duration of the immunity is a different question altogether.
 

Kleefeld

Banned
Jan 16, 2018
215
My best friend, an ICU nurse here in Germany was informed that she will receive 25 € hazard pay after taxes - a month. :D
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,020
I'm majorly on board with this. If it's proven (or perhaps discovered during this process) that there isn't a risk of reinfection there should be a global push to allow the recovered to go about life normally and slowly dovetail things back to normal

This would be punishing the people who play by the rules and are being careful and considerate for the others and reward the ones being reckless.
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
Yah nurses and medical staff are getting fucked over. People love to call them heroes and post all the feel good stuff, but don't let that absolve you from being mad at the problem.

Many nurses right now are simultaneously:

- Having their hours furloughed/changed/reduced

- Being put in potentially legally risky situations if people go after the healthcare facilities after all this settles

- Don't have proper PPE

- Are being accused of stealing PPE

- Being moved around to different floors with zero notice

- Told they will be rehired back from their reduced hours if the spike happens (which means being put in the most at-risk areas).

- Potentially losing their job or having this all changes, yet again, when the dust settles

It's the worst of most worlds. Sure they have a job, but many of them are trying to cobble work together since electives are cancelled.

It's just a shit situation all around for them. I know there's a lot of people that are struggling right now, but these people have the worst of the worst.

Yep. I don't think people are quite understanding what's going on at hospitals across the country right now that are not in high risk areas. I work for a major hospital network in Ohio and right now we're not seeing a lot of cases of COVID-19 (thank god). The problem is that the hospitals are losing money so rapidly due to all of their services stopping that a lot of people are losing their jobs and staff are being shuffled around so much that no one can keep up.

I work IT for the corporate office of this network and they already furloughed a bunch of people. By the end of this week I'm bracing for the possibility of this happening to me too, and I have baby being born next week. It's absolutely terrifying. I heard mentions of rotating staff through furlough so everyone shares the burden.

The only way people are going to avoid getting laid off for good at these hospitals is if a COVID boom happens or if this shit goes away soon, and honestly the most realistic one is the former which is equally scary.
 

Deleted member 8741

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,917
Yep. I don't think people are quite understanding what's going on at hospitals across the country right now that are not in high risk areas. I work for a major hospital network in Ohio and right now we're not seeing a lot of cases of COVID-19 (thank god). The problem is that the hospitals are losing money so rapidly due to all of their services stopping that a lot of people are losing their jobs and staff are being shuffled around so much that no one can keep up.

I work IT for the corporate office of this network and they already furloughed a bunch of people. By the end of this week I'm bracing for the possibility of this happening to me too, and I have baby being born next week. It's absolutely terrifying. I heard mentions of rotating staff through furlough so everyone shares the burden.

The only way people are going to avoid getting laid off for good at these hospitals is if a COVID boom happens or if this shit goes away soon, and honestly the most realistic one is the former which is equally scary.
Not that it's any solace right now, but I imagine, at some point in the future, elective will come back with a huge surge and you'll all mostly be needed. Can't really see a scenario where long-term your jobs aren't needed again.

Again though, I know that doesn't help in the meantime.
 

Deleted member 34788

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,545
It's tiring, honestly.

We have the best practices in fighting the virus from Asian countries and people are like "Nah.."

Yep.

West is best mentality, one of the
Thats stupid because we dont even know if you are immune after you go through the disease (or if you are to what degree). There have been reinfection cases already.

Those reinfection cases are few and far between, and notoriously rely in chinas not so great at all antibody testing. Other east Asian countries report little to no reinfection cases and frankly the test kits they use are much better then chinas.


The antibodies give immunity. If not then we might as pack up as a global society and might as well descend into chaos now, seeing as the lockdowns everyone is trying to enforce do not matter since everyone will get it again anyway.


Nothing, nothing so far points to this virus, as novel as it is, being somehow impossible for the body to gain natural immunity too. The end point is almost in line with other pandemics, only difference is how quickly this has spread to the west.

The above also does not account for one thing, china making sure in all its nightmarish power reinfection is not a thing and making damn sure if it before reopening the country.

They made sure no matter what the cost. That you can bet on.
 
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Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
I keep seeing people online not social distancing and pleading for decency and politeness for people that are angrily scorning them for spreading death.

I suspect America's bubbling of alternative facts is causing a lot of this ignorance. The facts are that what they are doing is killing. Like you wouldn't have a polite conversation with someone smoking while pumping gas with a leaky pump.
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
This would be punishing the people who play by the rules and are being careful and considerate for the others and reward the ones being reckless.
I see punishment and reward on both sides. Aside from a perceived unfairness, why not approach it this way? It would certainly help many people that will have a really hard time making it through this economically, no?
 

Sendero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
897
This is how countries will bridge the gap until a viable vaccine is produced.

Honest question: Has it been identified what antibodies help people to fight back the virus on early infection? In other words, not antibodies specifically generated as response, but the ones that help to only have mild or no symptoms. That would be another breakthrough.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
www.kpbs.org

Retired Docs, Nursing, Med Students: California Wants You

California's governor reached out to retired doctors and medical and nursing students to help treat an anticipated surge of coronavirus patients. Gov. Gavin Newsom on Monday signed an order waiving certain professional licensing and certification requirements to allow health care facilities to...

They did this here. Problem is the retired ones are old and at risk.

They should hire young people en masse and ramp up formation, especially for whatever might be easier for novices to do.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
No offense to Germany today, but the thought of Germany issuing papers to its citizens deciding who can work and not work under wartime footing, and thus whether they can go out, feels creepy to me just by the sound of it. Plus, people will just go out if they think they are allowed, certificate or no certificate.

But yes, in general the antibody test is the key to determining whether larger populations can get back to participating in the economy. The only thing is that if you've done an exceptional job preventing yourself from getting sick, and you don't have antibodies, you can't really be certified until you risk getting sick or you're forced to get back out there with everyone else.
 

jetscanfly

Member
Jan 19, 2018
1,146
So in Montreal it was the first working day with reduced public transportation frequency. As expected this led to too many people on buses and in the metro during rush hour. Bravo. Exactly the opposite of what they should do.

And now essential services will close one day a week to give workers a break. Hopefully this won't be the case with grocery stores otherwise it will just increase congestion. It's one of the reasons why « depanneurs » should stay open.

Grocery stores are closing on Sundays and deps will stay open.
 

electricblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
I see punishment and reward on both sides. Aside from a perceived unfairness, why not approach it this way? It would certainly help many people that will have a really hard time making it through this economically, no?

The problem isn't that its unfair, its that it incentivises infecting yourself and others with a deadly virus
 

carlsojo

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 28, 2017
34,045
San Francisco

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,446
A minute ago on OAN they were saying that it's basically the flu, that the death rate and hospitalization rate are mostly likely really only as bad as the flu. They were saying that they expect it to peak in the US in two weeks or less, also that lockdowns are not just unnecessary, but insane.
They hate that there was any stimulus bill.
This seems like easy pickings for a lawsuit later.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,367
Honest question: Has it been identified what antibodies help people to fight back the virus on early infection? In other words, not antibodies specifically generated as response, but the ones that help to only have mild or no symptoms. That would be another breakthrough.
Most studies I've read don't really relate to specific traits that show little to no symptoms apart from age. A number of studies actually point to viral load being a key factor, hence why we're seeing a number of doctors and nurses otherwise in good health die from it. If you have relatively minor exposure to it, your body has an opportunity to catch up and fight it. If you effectively take a large dose of it or sustained exposure, the chances of overrunning your immune system is much higher.

That's also a large reason why if someone in your house is infected, it's advised to try and isolate them from the rest of the household as much as possible, even if it is highly likely you all have it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,713

someday

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,453
No wonder the patient with poor coverage we saw got a bill of over $34K ... a 2/3 week stay with 2 to 5 people necessary ...
I agree that hospital/medical costs in America are ridiculous but it's not because of nurse's salaries. Nurses actually earn every bit of money they make, they're on the "front-lines", and are often better patient advocates than physicians. Nurses deserve every cent, especially ER and ICU RNs.

We get screwed in costs for lot of stuff in medicine but I don't think the salaries of health-care workers is the reason.
 

BFIB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,760
I had to go up to urgicare after smashing my finger today.

I'm nervous as hell from being out there.
 

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
So it's hit my area...at the hospital right across the street from my job.

Despite this the store I work at decided to open back up the deli and meat service counter...which had been rightfully closed.
 

Sendero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
897
Most studies I've read don't really relate to specific traits that show little to no symptoms apart from age. A number of studies actually point to viral load being a key factor, hence why we're seeing a number of doctors and nurses otherwise in good health die from it. If you have relatively minor exposure to it, your body has an opportunity to catch up and fight it. If you effectively take a large dose of it or sustained exposure, the chances of overrunning your immune system is much higher.

That's also a large reason why if someone in your house is infected, it's advised to try and isolate them from the rest of the household as much as possible, even if it is highly likely you all have it.
Yeah, I have heard about that. Is that common with other viruses or even on the CV family?
 

ejoshua

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,403
A lot of the things I'm reading has me confident that this will be on the lower scale of things. I read news about fevers dropping around the country, and death rates being a lot lower. I definitely don't feel "dread" — just concern as we endure, as "better than hoped for" does not mean "safe and sound" — this is still a horrific tragedy the moment one person died. I just feel optimism that this isn't the worst case scenario anymore.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,206
A lot of the things I'm reading has me confident that this will be on the lower scale of things. I read news about fevers dropping around the country, and death rates being a lot lower. I definitely don't feel "dread" — just concern as we endure, as "better than hoped for" does not mean "safe and sound" — this is still a horrific tragedy the moment one person died. I just feel optimism that this isn't the worst case scenario anymore.
I think another week early on in the major epicenters without taking much action to lockdown would have drastically changed this in the US. Many places were/are late from preventing much spread upfront but have now moved into better preventative measures before it really exploded.

Just imagine if a few NBA games had gone on with crowds getting it like the Champions League match in Italy.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
So one thing I'm wondering is if you get a virus and develop immunity, aren't every one of them different at least a little bit due to mutations? What is the threshold at which the virus is distinct enough to the point that you are no longer immune? I'm guessing we don't have a very clear understanding of immunity, feels like you might be immune until you come in contact with the virus from somewhere else where it would have mutated for a long-enough period to be different enough.

Maybe if everyone was always exposed to the virus, we would preserve our immunity because we would always be on the edge of immunity. Maybe that's how it works with the so-called common-flu; the strains that have been less common become more likely to bypass our immune systems, so when they finally spread enough they become more common while the others that were more common were spreading less so they end up getting phased out/extinct. A bit like how antiobiotics eventually become less efficient as only the bacterias that were not countered remain.