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Is Quiet the worst character design this gen?
- Thread starter ivan.k
- Start date
Basically the shower scene for example can narratively be viewed as an expression of her condition and the epitome of what she had to endure during his life, it even may be a touching moment of freedom. Its not because the frame and camera underline that other males characters view her as an object or reduced to her body that the player has do the same. I think its design and some moments ingame seem cringey or offensive only when we separate these things from the overall themes. I can't see her as objectified or reduce her to a sexy body because she is a confident and strong woman with some deep flows. She basically tries the whole game to appropriate to herself this exposed body and goes beyond her condition by embracing it. It's overly sexualized if we merely posta screen of her on a forum, and that's this gesture that objectify her (like the game detects the camera in the helicopter scene to trigger the script)
I don't know nothing about MGS so Quiet just looked like a standard bikini gal so it wasn't the design itself but the gifs of her ass, rolling in the rain (tragically?), the crazy backstory of why she's dressed that way, and Kojima's tweets that inform the context of her design.
I love this post.A lot of the time it actually does. Oftentimes the rules of character design are thrown out in favor of the designer's personal fetishes. Which they speak about openly in interviews and such. When you see a character like Link, every aspect of his design tells you about his role. Every little belt, piece of equipment, pouches, etc. you get the full picture:
meanwhile, sexualized character designs often look like an almagation of the designer's fetishes and/or designed to appeal to a presumably straight male audience's fetishes:
ok so the designer clearly likes
-catgirls
-knee high boots
-revealing outfits that make no sense
Oh.. she has a witch hat, she must be a witch, now if only the other aspects of the outfit reflected that.
It's a poor approach to character design especially since it's such a one sided affair. We've gotten some fantastic character designs when it comes to designers putting in effort beyond "Well my fetish x so this character needs that" and they all fit the assassin
Ostracised queen turned assassin:
Parkour expert in a futuristic dystopian city:
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Former pilot turned superhero:
Struggling Survivor in a zombie apocalypse:
Inquisitor who hunts jedi and works for the empire:
An assassin in Ancient Egypt:
Quiet's outfit tells me nothing about the character because that's not it's intent first and foremost. Which just tells me that it's bad character design for a poorly written character. 👏
Quiet is pretty bad. But I didn't mind her and I see some of these Steam games that are so uncomfortable to even open the link.
I feel bad, as I feel that they were being completely sincere, but this response was absolutely inevitable (and necessary).
There was really nothing wrong with that scene. There is a 1 second camera angle that is questionable but besides that the scene makes sense for the character and doesn't feel sexualized. It's nothing compared to Quiet. I remember the controversy before the release and when I played it made me laugh that there was a fuss about it.
Mk 11 skins are lazy as fuck. Those pallette swaps are terrible. Who cares if I have 74 skins for Sonya when there are actually 3 models repeated over and over.
Kano's design was a huge step down from MKX. And the characters heads look too big.
Kano's design was a huge step down from MKX. And the characters heads look too big.
Keep in mind that in that topic:
Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP) OT
Please read these notable posts before participating in the thread, if you have not done so already!www.resetera.com
Two OTs worth of people CONSTANTLY posting examples. Why are there SO SO SO SO SO MANY examples!? It's JUST women too.
- People defended Dorothy, the underage looking hookerbot from VA-11 Hall-A, citing her as a example of a sex positive character.
- People told us we should ignore the sexism from the Trails series just because Estelle is a semi decent protagonist. Even though she a dumb klutz that eventuality falls in love with her adoptive brother.
A lot of people defend the xb2 characters just because they are apparently not bad characters even if their designs are terribad.
This is a gross generalisation of the 'why women' thread.
This discussion about an obscure indie game character looks like it was incredibly brief and a year ago. There was like, three posts of discussion including it being challenged, after someone raised this 'Dorothy' character (it looks like a pretty bad design to me) but it looks like most people didn't even know who it was and only three people commented. Which is why when you brought that exchange up again a couple of months ago, nobody had much to say then either. Over years of discussion there's been people defending Quiet and various other popular crap designs in there too, but they are far, far outnumbered by those critiquing the designs at length, the purpose of the thread, and this is over literally hundreds of character designs. You're attempting to generalise tens of thousands of posts by hundreds of members over 2.5 years based on two brief discussions involving a handful of members.
Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP) OT
Dorothy from Va-11Hall-a is kind of in a weird spot. On one hand, she's a rare example of a sex-positive sex worker that owns her sexuality and her job. On the other hand, she's has a child-like body and often acts like one. I'm not exactly sure how to think of her.
www.resetera.com
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That's the point I'm making. People who criticize designs aren't above to be prone to the same biases as the people who defend them.
What makes the design worse is that Quiet is treated as a serious character. It's not just bad but it's also a mismatch.
There's supposed to be a romantic attraction between her and Big Boss. She's supposed to be a formidable combatant. I don't think I could look past the design to register any of that.
Then it isn't even interesting visually. It's like someone went through a military game character creator to just get the most naked design.
There's supposed to be a romantic attraction between her and Big Boss. She's supposed to be a formidable combatant. I don't think I could look past the design to register any of that.
Then it isn't even interesting visually. It's like someone went through a military game character creator to just get the most naked design.
A lot of the time it actually does. Oftentimes the rules of character design are thrown out in favor of the designer's personal fetishes. Which they speak about openly in interviews and such. When you see a character like Link, every aspect of his design tells you about his role. Every little belt, piece of equipment, pouches, etc. you get the full picture:
meanwhile, sexualized character designs often look like an almagation of the designer's fetishes and/or designed to appeal to a presumably straight male audience's fetishes:
ok so the designer clearly likes
-catgirls
-knee high boots
-revealing outfits that make no sense
Oh.. she has a witch hat, she must be a witch, now if only the other aspects of the outfit reflected that.
It's a poor approach to character design especially since it's such a one sided affair. We've gotten some fantastic character designs when it comes to designers putting in effort beyond "Well my fetish x so this character needs that" and they all fit the bill as a result in the same way Link does.
Ostracised queen turned assassin:
Parkour expert in a futuristic dystopian city:
Former pilot turned superhero:
Struggling Survivor in a zombie apocalypse:
Inquisitor who hunts jedi and works for the empire:
An assassin in Ancient Egypt:
Quiet's outfit tells me nothing about the character because that's not it's intent first and foremost. Which just tells me that it's bad character design for a poorly written character. 👏
gr8 post.
That reminds me how they didn't really explain how you could talk to the aliens, besides the whole "there's something weird going on in this planet".This thing is the worst character I've ever seen in a video game:
I knew they made bikini party games, but this looks straight out of a porno.I mean...
Edit: also, you get a trophy for looking up MC's skirt in Nier Automata
Uh, I'm not sure if 3DS era counts as this gen but Pokemon animators were having a little too much fun with Korrina
I know what you're getting at, but in this case those shapes are something inherent to the pose. If I had to draw a movement like that I'd better make sure to get the anatomy right or it'd be a pain to figure it out.
That said, I don't think it has much to do with the design itself. Reminds me of when people zoomed on Luigi's crotch when it wasn't the highlight of the artwork. (In this case, since the pants are so dark and blurry your view would go directly to the rapid motion of the leg, and then to her torso and eyes because of the red and white in her design).
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Quiet is worse. These ones are bad but at least they're not out of place on a beach or in a swimming pool.I mean...
Edit: also, you get a trophy for looking up MC's skirt in Nier Automata
Ya, I thought about that after the post. Context. I guess these were so extreme (ugh, sorry) that they just stood out so strong this gen.
oh yeah
lila looks absofuckinglutely insane
its like on the level or worse than the valkyria chronicles artist drawing selvaria with spilling out omega hyper hentai breasts
I chose not to include the pole dancing/strip club-esque scenes.
For me no, there have been worse. It was uncomfortable when my wife walked in and Quiet was in the chopper with you. Kojima knew what he was doing and it wasn't Konami telling him her backstory or how she should dress. Was a great companion to bring along however, especially with a silent sniper rifle.
This is different as the DOA Xtreme games are essentially Ecchi games where as Quiet is in a quirky military espionage series.I mean...
Edit: also, you get a trophy for looking up MC's skirt in Nier Automata
Those ass jiggle physics though lmao.
It feels like you are trying to paint all the people in that thread as hypocrites because a few random posters chimed in with some bad takes. That feels pretty disingenuous to me.
*edit*
I just softened the tone of what I wrote.
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User Banned (permanent): Misrepresenting arguments against objectification over a series of posts; account in junior phase
btw at what point dismissing a justification with a video trollling anime fan is considered ad hominem ?
Basically i'm asking at those who think Quiet's design is not only out of place (it seems pretty subjective) but clearly offensive/regressive : what's the criteria ? You all seems to be ok with the idea of forbidding or prohibiting a quiet-like design right ? Like, if you guys were an ethic staff you'll happily check the artist work and say "delete this, add that, change the camera angle" etc. Its ok if you work with a justified normativity but the criteria is far from obvious. Are cleavages always forbidden ? How to distinguish a good justification from a bad ? Or is it that no matter the justification, such and such design choices are always bad ? If you dismiss Quiet you have to either dismiss the whole chara design either the design/choices of some ingame moments (if so you need to bring an objective reason). Finally by putting Dead or Alive bikinis on the same plan of Quiet's design you actively agree witht the fact that either the Quiet's design justification given by kojima and proven by the whole game is not enough (but why ? by the narrative itself ? By the way the game exposed the narrative ?) either there is no acceptable ways to show a character with this outfits.
Basically i'm asking at those who think Quiet's design is not only out of place (it seems pretty subjective) but clearly offensive/regressive : what's the criteria ? You all seems to be ok with the idea of forbidding or prohibiting a quiet-like design right ? Like, if you guys were an ethic staff you'll happily check the artist work and say "delete this, add that, change the camera angle" etc. Its ok if you work with a justified normativity but the criteria is far from obvious. Are cleavages always forbidden ? How to distinguish a good justification from a bad ? Or is it that no matter the justification, such and such design choices are always bad ? If you dismiss Quiet you have to either dismiss the whole chara design either the design/choices of some ingame moments (if so you need to bring an objective reason). Finally by putting Dead or Alive bikinis on the same plan of Quiet's design you actively agree witht the fact that either the Quiet's design justification given by kojima and proven by the whole game is not enough (but why ? by the narrative itself ? By the way the game exposed the narrative ?) either there is no acceptable ways to show a character with this outfits.
We shit on Quiet because Kojima repeatedly harped on people for thinking her design was exploitative and oversexualized by claiming it had a critical narrative reason and we would all feel bad when we found out why she dresses like a stripper who just escaped from a back-alley rape attempt.
When the game came out the "reasoning" was just "she breathes through her skin I dunno" and virtually every single cutscene she was in was obvious male-gaze pandering. We call Quiet out because Kojima was AWARE people were upset with her portrayal before the game even came out, pretended he would acknowledge it in-narrative, and then just delivered an obvious fap-bait character.
Again, they had no problems deflecting accusations of sexism/incest simply because they happen to actually like the character/series that's being put on blast. What's so different of what is going on with some users on this topic? Same deal, as far as I'm concerned.
A convoluted justification behind a scene that has an intent that starts and ends with fanservice is not a justification.That's not how stories work. You sound like the type of person who would consider this to be an allegory for feminism just because the creator said so:
Note, literally her writing is affected by all of the stupid justifications for her character. Literally from minute one of her appearance in the game, literally EVERY single enemy in the hospital sequence is wearing a mask, they also coincidentally, are all male. Quiet, is on a stealth mission. She is not wearing a mask. She considers anyone who sees her face to be a threat. Literally the only reason she didn't succeed is because she felt the need to note that another patient saw her face. Why isn't a wearing a mask? Who knows? Because we need a contrived reason to justify her stopping in the middle of the mission instead of getting the job done. Why doesn't Quiet communicate via paper and letters? Because she's a poorly written character who's design was meant to encourage more fanservice cosplay.
She's a poorly written character in a game full of awful writing and flat one note characterization. Ask for better stories instead of taking the BS at face value.
Oh damn. I guess it really was a thing. I was thinking "this is some weird ass fanasty world fanservice" when I did that minigame in Final Fantasy Crystal Bearers.I mean...
Guess it was just fanservice.
Quiet's design and the justification for it is stupid, but there are worse designs posted in this thread.
Glad I wasn't drinking anything when that appeared.
Anyway that's kind of beside the point. There is zero established motivation for her bizarre behavior. It's against her character, against her relationship with Snake, and is entirely driven either by Kojima being a pervert and/or believing his audience is. To such an extent that he doesn't care if it ruins the character. Quiet could've been a decent one. But instead she's treated like this. It's disappointing, shitty, pathetic and intensely disrespectful towards his audience and his own work.
Kojima seems to need someone to tell him "that's fucking stupid" whenever he comes up with some perverted hack fraud idea that compromises a character.
He seriously appears to have (or at least have had) problems with self-sabotage because he's a pervert.
He wanted The Boss to run around with a breast hanging out.
Don't know whether this is a joke. In any case, I have no idea what the B&B unit was, except for surely whatever the intent, it was a failure.
If you want to make a dumb softcore porn game where half-naked people are sporadically gyrating at each other for no reason, then make one.
Do not put that into supposedly serious games where it's completely out of place and disastrously detrimental to tone, logic and characterizations.
For example.
Glad I wasn't drinking anything when that appeared.
I remember the default view for when you entered the chopper menu (which you did quite a bit) being first person facing forward, and she'd do her softcore porn in the background.
Anyway that's kind of beside the point. There is zero established motivation for her bizarre behavior. It's against her character, against her relationship with Snake, and is entirely driven either by Kojima being a pervert and/or believing his audience is. To such an extent that he doesn't care if it ruins the character. Quiet could've been a decent one. But instead she's treated like this. It's disappointing, shitty, pathetic and intensely disrespectful towards his audience and his own work.
Kojima seems to need someone to tell him "that's fucking stupid" whenever he comes up with some perverted hack fraud idea that compromises a character.
He seriously appears to have (or at least have had) problems with self-sabotage because he's a pervert.
He wanted The Boss to run around with a breast hanging out.
Don't know whether this is a joke. In any case, I have no idea what the B&B unit was, except for surely whatever the intent, it was a failure.
The problem of Kojima ruining Quiet's character, would not be improved by Kojima also ruining a male character.
If you want to make a dumb softcore porn game where half-naked people are sporadically gyrating at each other for no reason, then make one.
Do not put that into supposedly serious games where it's completely out of place and disastrously detrimental to tone, logic and characterizations.
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When the design looks extremely out of place and doesn't seem at all like what the character would wear in accordance to their personality it's a bad design. I do like sexualized designs don't get me wrong but it depends on the context and game genre. I would have loved if Quiet had a badass stealth suit like Venom Snake but no she looks like she fell into a blender.
The one upside to Xenoblade Chronicles 2's terrible character designs is that you can barely see them though the horrible low resolution graphics.
Xenoblade 2 at least has the worst designs in a first party Nintendo game
Its not even close.
Also why is Xenoblade 2's character design so horny? Were the characters designed by hentai artists?
Its not even close.
Also why is Xenoblade 2's character design so horny? Were the characters designed by hentai artists?
Worst design? No not really.
Stupid, yes. It just doesn't fit the settings, but then a lot of his characters don't.
The MGS series has always been over the top, over convoluted, ridiculous in it's stories and presentation. Personally, I stopped playing and caring about the series since MGS2.
But lol at how many times gifs and pictures of Quite have been posted in thread. Once was enough, the rest is unctuous
Stupid, yes. It just doesn't fit the settings, but then a lot of his characters don't.
The MGS series has always been over the top, over convoluted, ridiculous in it's stories and presentation. Personally, I stopped playing and caring about the series since MGS2.
But lol at how many times gifs and pictures of Quite have been posted in thread. Once was enough, the rest is unctuous
It really shows, most of them have really revealing outfits. Totally unneccesary. Especially coming from a Nintendo owned studio.
Basically, Monolith hired a bunch of random guest artists and gave them absolutely no guidance on what to design, they just told them to come up with a character. This is why virtually all of the designs are porny or porn-adjacent female characters.
Absolutely zero quality control was exercised.