No and I have not unfortunately and no clue what page it was on either since these threads move so fast I am afraid.
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DF Direct: PS5: The full technical specification
- Thread starter Thiago
- Start date
No and I have not unfortunately and no clue what page it was on either since these threads move so fast I am afraid.
In what way does TF make life easier on devs? Be specific here.
Thought the Eurogamer write-up said you can use it for cold storage but not play games off it.
I recall the original Xbox One getting a cpu and gpu clock uptick right before release. It was 853Mhz vs PS4's 800Mhz on the gpu side right out the gate and PS4 still lapped it because of other factors in the hardware. My point being the increased clock speed didn't matter in a similar gpu setup where one console had more clock speed and the other more CUs.
No lol it's not about "preference". Teraflops is only a metric, it's a fact. It doesn't mean the performance is better (see DF video, but maybe you know better than them too lol). Every dev will tell you the same.
Then you got things like clock speed (better on PS5), bandwidth, data load times, and so on. Everything goes into performance.
I have no idea why fanboys started talking about Teraflops. They didn't 10 years ago. It makes zero sense to compare performance with a single metric. "Operations per second" means nothing in itself, it's all about what this operation does and everything around it. PS5 may well be faster, only thing sure is it's pretty close.
But be reassured, with diminishing returns, even if XSX is slower in games, you won't see much difference. My guess is it will be basically identical. The same way I have a hard time making a difference between games on PS4 Pro and the same games on my 1070 PC.
No, I'm not. DF is not in the business of hardcore critical reviews. When it comes to analyzing a game they'll give you the hard facts with a little opinion sprinkled in, but I've never seen them be critical of hardware designs and choices. They're very professional people.
Their "criticisms" of the PS5 will show up when there are multi platform games that perform better on Series X.
Sony's MLB The Show is coming to other platforms, Nintendo and Microsoft consoles are top candidates
The news has received nods from Microsoft and Nintendowww.gamesradar.com
You must live under a rock.
I do! Good to know
you mistunderstand
In 2013, when rumours started to surface that the Xbox One was weaker, all of a sudden we had insiders claiming various special sauces that would result in the opposite. Much like now when we had leaks and rumours of the PS5 being weaker, we suddenly had special sauces like HBM, dual GPU, RDNA3 Features and insiders claiming a more powerful machine.
In 2013 it was Sony who came out on the front foot, showing the console, going into detail early about specs. This time around it's been Microsoft.
It's just eerily similar, but in reverse.
I edited my post to be more accurate. And according to both Cerny and Digital Foundry, the higher clockspeed does have its own set of advantages, as described in my post and in the video. That's not to say those advantages compensate for any Tflop difference, but they are advantages nonetheless.
If I remembered correctly, it was around 200$
Not specially faster, but LOD will be better, yes.
Audio is really a big question. There is the ambition but it will need a big amount of works made by dev. It is a work in progress. Like you saw in the video, binaural is already available but not used baring exceptions.
He was very clear about that. Contrary to SSD where he basically said, tell us which compressed data you want and we will do the rest.
So first party, yes. Others, meh.
Yup i recommend everyone give it a watch before commenting its some truly embarrassing posts in here
Again I ask you why are they agreeing then with what Cerny says and that there are benefits of going small and fast when it comes to performance that TF won't show?
Clearly the point flew over your head because I wasn't talking about any of this. I was talking about the post you responded to which was about a dev preferring the PS5 customized SSD over more flops, to which I said I'm sure some devs would agree and want that SSD while others would prefer more flops for higher resolution and better framerates. You're so quick to call me a fanboy that you're not reading my posts properly.
There was a time Sony was losing $200 for a piece of hardware? In a time without PSN? Jesus christ now i know how they went bankrupt...and why they are afraid to go overboard with prices ever since.
I was about to post about this.
I think Cerny mentioned audio and cu's. If this is the case....oh boy, lol. Is audio that important? Was it a choice because of PSVR?
Curious to hear more about this.
PS5 is certainly a very impresssive beast compared to PS4 no lies there
But somebody replied and said the Series X has an audio chip also.........
So I remember the whole secret sauce discussions whenever the Xbox One was coming out but I don't actually remember what the technical justifications were for those claims. My fuzzy memory tells me it was mostly just console war stuff. I get that there are more Sony console owners on this site as well as many who have become somewhat enamored with what Microsoft has done that last few years and disillusioned with Sony and how that exacerbated the console war aspect of the discussion, but I have to ask...
Is the Xbox One secret sauce really analogous to what we are talking about right now? I've said it a dozen times the past couple of days but I'm not a tech guy, but conceptually I understand what Cerny was getting at with efficiency/speed over raw power. And I know the XSX isn't just brute power, but I don't know why there is such a visceral backlash against the concept that Sony took a different approach and went even further with customizing their console so their raw numbers won't reflect the real world power the way the XSX will. I still expect the XSX to be more powerful, but it's like a contingent of people on here don't even want to entertain the discussion.
Maybe it is all just PR speak from Sony. I legitimately don't know.
Is the Xbox One secret sauce really analogous to what we are talking about right now? I've said it a dozen times the past couple of days but I'm not a tech guy, but conceptually I understand what Cerny was getting at with efficiency/speed over raw power. And I know the XSX isn't just brute power, but I don't know why there is such a visceral backlash against the concept that Sony took a different approach and went even further with customizing their console so their raw numbers won't reflect the real world power the way the XSX will. I still expect the XSX to be more powerful, but it's like a contingent of people on here don't even want to entertain the discussion.
Maybe it is all just PR speak from Sony. I legitimately don't know.
xbox x is more powerful. it will become apparent when the likes of playground and ninja theory reveal their x exclusive games.
I think the difference is the Xbox One's secret sauces were non tangible things that either didn't exist or couldn't be rationally explained as advantageous vs the competition. Eg a dGPU, use of DirectX etc.
Conversely, there is actually technical merit in the advantages of the PS5's higher clockspeed (which DF specifically discusses) not to mention in having the much faster SSD set up. So they're not really secret sauces, they're just the PS5's advantages.
That's not to say these things will make up for any Tflop deficit, but in truth we don't know how the systems will compare in real world terms till the games are out.
So basically, Both new consoles are going to kick ass and both are innovative in terms of technology and engineering. Both have their strengths and not really any weaknesses at all from what I can see.
WIN/WIN if you're a gamer and like both MS and Sony, If you're a one console only gamer well...Get a second job.
It all comes down to which ecosystem you like most and already invested in, Which games you prefer and where your friends play at the end of the day, This fascination and obsession over raw power is really obnoxious, I've read some embarrasing stuff on here and social media today, I really hope more people watch this video and realise that both next gen consoles are very powerful and are going to provide us with uncountable hours of amazing experiences.
WIN/WIN if you're a gamer and like both MS and Sony, If you're a one console only gamer well...Get a second job.
It all comes down to which ecosystem you like most and already invested in, Which games you prefer and where your friends play at the end of the day, This fascination and obsession over raw power is really obnoxious, I've read some embarrasing stuff on here and social media today, I really hope more people watch this video and realise that both next gen consoles are very powerful and are going to provide us with uncountable hours of amazing experiences.
I think it is specific to the version which had PS2 in it (which wasn't available in Europe).
We're back to that cyclical phase of every gen where, for a time, Digital Foundry is biased in Sony's or Microsoft's favor, depending on who you ask.
Ya theres no erasing the TF difference, it will be slightly mitigated by the more performant clocks on the PS5. Not entirely sure if the XS audio chip fully handles the atmos processing or if that then needs to be offloaded to the CPU. Either way, Sony's audio chip does the work of an entire jaguar cpu.
I think the coming generation will be a lot like the 360/PS3 era, though for different reasons. The PS5 will produce some stunning results with 1st party games, especially as developers learn to truly maximize the hardware, but the XSX will have a modest edge in nearly all 3rd party games. MS will produce a better stable of exclusives, but it will trend in the opposite direction of the 360 (weaker library at the start and stronger 1st party output as the generation goes on).
Ultimately, the consumers win because both consoles are going to be beasts. I'm certainly there day 1 for both offerings.
Ultimately, the consumers win because both consoles are going to be beasts. I'm certainly there day 1 for both offerings.
It won't stopped them. Maybe gameplay demo will but I don't think so. It will be new ammo for console wars. They will compared to the death instead of enjoying stuff.
Look what happened with HZD on PC.
Just gotta say Im really happy to see the growth that Digital Foundry has made, to the point they they are the first official channel for Microsoft and Sony to get exclusive details and unprecedented tech access to their next-gen consoles. They've been a large part in getting gamers and consumers to care about performance, resolution, and the tech actually underpinning video games.
Here here! Well said. I think in the coming weeks people will digest this information and ultimately see that each console is doling out different, unique approaches and the games will be even more dynamic and exciting. It's great that XSX and PS5 aren't carbon copies, this is a lot more exciting and unpredictable for both devs and us gamers to appreciate.
No, PS4 games I think they said will run but ps5 games will need that minimum 5.5gb/s transfer rate either from the onboard sad or a pcie gen 4 expansion
dude. Read my post please. I'm talking about the stuff that led up to the spec reveals. There were unrealistic secret sauces for PS5 as well.
HBM, Dual GPU, RDNA3 features.
So has there been any word about variable refresh rate support from Sony?
It may seem like a minor thing, but it concerns me that Microsoft made a point of talking about it, meanwhile Sony has been silent, and most of their 2020 TVs lack support.
My understanding is that ray tracing happens on the CUs in RDNA2, unlike NVIDIA's GPUs where they are separate cores, so those extra CUs have the potential to make quite a difference in RT performance where having more cores is going to matter more than faster ones.
The typical condition is that the power limit is what affects boost clock, unless the cooling solution cannot also keep it below the temperature limit (of 93℃) at which point it throttles as a safety precaution. Most GPUs won't be getting anywhere near that temperature. It's nearly always the power limit which throttles them.
All we really know about Microsoft's solution is that they have 3D audio, support ray tracing, and are doing it on dedicated hardware.
We really can't compare the two right now without knowing more details.
John and Richard seemed enthusiastic, but I got the impression they thought that HRTFs were a new thing, and not something that's been behind virtual surround solutions in games -including 3D audio- since the '90s on Aureal sound cards.
And there are already products on the market like the Super X-Fi which have you submit photos of your head and ears to calculate the optimal HRTF for you:
None of the rooms I have are really conducive to a good multichannel audio setup though due to size/shape and furniture - at least not with a significant upheaval.
It may seem like a minor thing, but it concerns me that Microsoft made a point of talking about it, meanwhile Sony has been silent, and most of their 2020 TVs lack support.
The processing happens in the console. The output will be standard LPCM.
I think there is something to be said for higher clockspeeds rather than going wide - to a point, but the difference in clockspeed is half as much as the difference in compute units (22% vs 44%) and the clockspeed on the PS5 is variable rather than fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if the clockspeed is higher than the original design as a reaction to the XSX.
My understanding is that ray tracing happens on the CUs in RDNA2, unlike NVIDIA's GPUs where they are separate cores, so those extra CUs have the potential to make quite a difference in RT performance where having more cores is going to matter more than faster ones.
PCIe 4.0 SSDs have been available since July last year.
That's how boost clocks have worked on NVIDIA GPUs for years.
The typical condition is that the power limit is what affects boost clock, unless the cooling solution cannot also keep it below the temperature limit (of 93℃) at which point it throttles as a safety precaution. Most GPUs won't be getting anywhere near that temperature. It's nearly always the power limit which throttles them.
Sony went into a lot of detail about their audio solution and gave it a fancy name, Microsoft did not.
All we really know about Microsoft's solution is that they have 3D audio, support ray tracing, and are doing it on dedicated hardware.
We really can't compare the two right now without knowing more details.
John and Richard seemed enthusiastic, but I got the impression they thought that HRTFs were a new thing, and not something that's been behind virtual surround solutions in games -including 3D audio- since the '90s on Aureal sound cards.
And there are already products on the market like the Super X-Fi which have you submit photos of your head and ears to calculate the optimal HRTF for you:
I'm sorted for headphone audio, and have a very nice 2.1 setup… but I have been thinking about trying to extend that to 5.1 and the way that audio seems to be getting more attention this generation might be the push that I need.
None of the rooms I have are really conducive to a good multichannel audio setup though due to size/shape and furniture - at least not with a significant upheaval.
So this is what happens when you explain it to people like that. Just no. Ram is orders of magnitude (Cerny used that, too) faster than an SSD when it comes to latency.
More like, depending on which is actually delivering better results.
i can't think of a single PlayStation generation where sony have not had a new new gen only game to show off the platform, that is their the whole generation approach ..infact cerny started this conference off again under lining that that. thats the real disadvantage MS have with their approach ..made even worse by these SSD's
Ps4 had infamous SS
Ps3 resistance FOM
ps2 SSX
"GPU and CPU performance are indeed what I view as good performance metrics to mention - especially if we have equalising terms among extremely similar architectures. RDNA and Zen. I am not sure why people would suggest otherwise."
PlayStation: Mark Cerny will provide a deep dive into PS5’s system architecture tomorrow at 9am PT
GPU and CPU performance are indeed what I view as good performance metrics to mention - especially if we have equalising terms among extremely similar architectures. RDNA and Zen. I am not sure why people would suggest otherwise.
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LOL Sony wishes. PS3's raw BoM was unanimously estimated to be $800-$900.
Yes higher clocks do have advantages. I recall arguments on the xb1 side about pixel fill rates and the like. But, those high clock speed on the PS5 are the peak not sustained. What John glossed over in that video was that in order for the PS5 gpu to hit that 2.23Ghz number the cpu clock speed is lowered. So PS5 can't even hit peak cpu and gpu at the same time. Sustained performance vs constantly varying performance.
If I'm being 100% honest, it's hard to tell the difference reading this thread.
The Pro is the first mid gen upgrade Sony has made. I think that could hold them back from having PS5 exclusives at launch.
The XSX just has a bit more brute force to it. In the end, you'll be happy with both.