DF Direct: PS5: The full technical specification

[Haint]

Fuck. I'm going to have to spend even more money upgrading my home theater. D:

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Why would you? This 3D audio engine only works with headphones right now. They're "working on" simulating a surround effect through Stereo speakers (which will assuredly suck) and may get around to doing something with actual surround setups (channel numbers and positioning unknown) at some point in the future. How they will deliver it to your receiver is also unspecified, perhaps a new proprietary codec requiring a new AVR. This is primarily PSVR2 technology, deployment in flat screen gaming is just a convenient side effect.

 

[PJV3]

The XSX just has a bit more brute force to it. In the end, you'll be happy with both.

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Yeah, If you have to have more teraflops then get a Xbox, plenty of other reasons to be excited about the playstation and we haven't even seen the bloody thing yet.

 

[Deleted member 6539]

Do you have a link to that post ? Please

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PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny

There have never been two consoles this close in perf.

www.resetera.com

 

[ByWatterson]

Nope... 2.4GB/s Raw and 4.8GB/s compressed

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Ah. PS5's is 8-9GB/s compressed, so both super fast, but seems like a meaningful difference.

 

[Piggus]

It's pretty crazy because this was the EXACT thing that was said last time except it was from the xbox side.
We're through the looking glass.

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Not true at all. If you're talking about the ESRAM, it was determined pretty early on that that was a necessary inclusion to the APU in order to make up for the slow RAM, but at the cost of a weaker GPU. Anybody saying it was an actual advantage was highly misinformed. The PS4 had a clear advantage in GPU power, just as the XSX has a clear advantage in GPU power now (at least in terms of raw compute). But that advantage is significantly smaller this time, and PS4 has its own advantages elsewhere (rasterization, audio, IO). MS and Sony have different priorities and each has its own strengths. That's wasn't really the case last time.

 

[MillionIII]

It's pretty great that they allow off the shelf SSDs, but damn if it's not going to be expensive for both consoles, it would be cool to compare the real world advantages of a better ssd since it directly affects game design unlike resolution or fps, even if it's taken full advantage of in first party games we would see games that are beyond anything possible right now.

 

[nib95]

Yes higher clocks do have advantages. I recall arguments on the xb1 side about pixel fill rates and the like. But, those high clock speed on the PS5 are the peak not sustained. What John glossed over in that video was that in order for the PS5 gpu to hit that 2.23Ghz number the cpu clock speed is lowered. So PS5 can't even hit peak cpu and gpu at the same time. Sustained performance vs constantly varying performance.

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I don't believe this is the case. The implication is that they can actually both run at their max speeds in tandem (hence a combined peak performance of 10.28 Tflops), depending on the power load. Were they not able to both hit this speed simultaneously, the peak performance tflop rating would be lower. Perhaps this is something that can be confirmed by Dark1x.

 

[mordecaii83]

Yes higher clocks do have advantages. I recall arguments on the xb1 side about pixel fill rates and the like. But, those high clock speed on the PS5 are the peak not sustained. What John glossed over in that video was that in order for the PS5 gpu to hit that 2.23Ghz number the cpu clock speed is lowered. So PS5 can't even hit peak cpu and gpu at the same time. Sustained performance vs constantly varying performance.

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I don't know why people keep quoting this, it goes against what Cerny stated in the video. He said both would generally hit max clocks, and if one was using less power than expected (while still running max clocks) the other could use the extra power under the power envelope to push harder. It's really not that complicated.

 

[Deleted member 15395]

3rd party devs will walk the path of least resistance. It's just how it is. Series X seems to be the more straightforward of the bunch, just throw raw power at it. I'm surprised that sony went with a more customized solution after PS4. It seems to me they created a machine tailored to what their devs may have wanted to do rather than an compute monster aimed at giving massive power to everyone. The SSD and I/O speeds are staggering but again, I don't see 3rd party devs allocating resources to maximize their potential since the ssd on the xbox, while not as fast, is super fast as well. I expect xbox to become the primary platform for 3rd party studios.

 

[Andvari]

It won't stopped them. Maybe gameplay demo will but I don't think so. It will be new ammo for console wars. They will compared to the death instead of enjoying stuff.
Look what happened with HZD on PC.

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It's clearly obvious though that games on either console are going to be amazing, I'll never understand fanboys and the whole console wars thing when there are games to play.... Such a waste of time and energy.

Here here! Well said. I think in the coming weeks people will digest this information and ultimately see that each console is doling out different, unique approaches and the games will be even more dynamic and exciting. It's great that XSX and PS5 aren't carbon copies, this is a lot more exciting and unpredictable for both devs and us gamers to appreciate.

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Agreed, It's nice to see both MS and Sony engineer there own vision rather than last gen which was pretty much carbon copies like you said, It's ashame the vast majority are talking about teraflops instead of more exciting things like VRR/RT, What the visuals and scope of games are going to be like, Dedicated powerful Audio chips, Super fast nVME drives.... But nope 10.3 vs 12.1 :(

We also haven't seen the DS5 or the PS5 yet I'm really looking forward to hearing about how they've resolved thermal/acoustics as the PS4 Pro is way too hot and loud, I can't wait to see how MS are going to improve the UI and see the difference in the new Halo running on XSX... I think you get my drift lol.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's pretty great that they allow off the shelf SSDs, but damn if it's not going to be expensive for both consoles, it would be cool to compare the real world advantages of a better ssd since it directly affects game design unlike resolution or fps, even if it's taken full advantage of in first party games we would see games that are beyond anything possible right now.

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The response that they got from the Vita storage probably scared the shit out of them as far as doing something like that again.

 

[GillianSeed79]

So I remember the whole secret sauce discussions whenever the Xbox One was coming out but I don't actually remember what the technical justifications were for those claims.

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It was the "power of the cloud." Microsoft tried to assert that they could leverage their cloud servers to add additional power and performance to the base Xbox One, i.e. they claimed for example that the power of the cloud could be used to handle computation for stuff like real time destruction in Crack Down 3, a claim that was not true for a game that was delayed to hell and back. The difference between this and the PS5 SSD is that the SSD is an actual physical component with a performance that can actually be measured/add to the console's performance demonstrably.

 

[Elfstruck]

Yeah, If you have to have more teraflops then get a Xbox, plenty of other reasons to be excited about the playstation and we haven't even seen the bloody thing yet.

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I don't know why I'm loled so hard at this.

 

[JaseC64]

Didnt sony have some patents for some card like peripheral for the ps5? Any idea what that is? The enclosure for the NVME drives possibly?

 

[Deleted member 1120]

Not true at all. If you're talking about the ESRAM, it was determined pretty early on that that was a necessary inclusion to the APU in order to make up for the slow RAM, but at the cost of a weaker GPU. Anybody saying it was an actual advantage was highly misinformed. The PS4 had a clear advantage in GPU power, just as the XSX has a clear advantage in GPU power now (at least in terms of raw compute). But that advantage is significantly smaller this time, and PS4 has its own advantages elsewhere (rasterization, audio, IO). MS and Sony have different priorities and each has its own strengths. That's wasn't really the case last time.

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I was actually talking about something much more simpler. The poster was talking about how people are saying "The Xbox series X is more brute force while PS5 is more optimizied." At the start of the current gen, people were saying that the PS4 was more brute force while Xbox One was optimized.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

So basically, Both new consoles are going to kick ass and both are innovative in terms of technology and engineering. Both have their strengths and not really any weaknesses at all from what I can see.

WIN/WIN if you're a gamer and like both MS and Sony, If you're a one console only gamer well...Get a second job.

It all comes down to which ecosystem you like most and already invested in, Which games you prefer and where your friends play at the end of the day, This fascination and obsession over raw power is really obnoxious, I've read some embarrasing stuff on here and social media today, I really hope more people watch this video and realise that both next gen consoles are very powerful and are going to provide us with uncountable hours of amazing experiences.

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Yup, console warriors ruin everything. As a gamer I'm very excited to see these new consoles and the capabilities they are both bringing. Both MS and Sony have done a wonderful job with the engineering of both machines. I really see no weaknesses in design here, instead I see two companies following two different design philosophies and coming up with impressive results.

 

[Exodia]

I think the difference is the Xbox One's secret sauces were non tangible things that either didn't exist or couldn't be rationally explained as advantageous vs the competition. Eg a dGPU, use of DirectX etc.

Conversely, there is actually technical merit in the advantages of the PS5's higher clockspeed (which DF specifically discusses) not to mention in having the much faster SSD set up. So they're not really secret sauces, they're just the PS5's advantages.

That's not to say these things will make up for any Tflop deficit, but in truth we don't know how the systems will compare in real world terms till the games are out.

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You have an advantage by being weaker...wait what? I thought the whole point of an advantage is TO ACTUALY edge out/win out.

When you look at it.

1. Less GPU
2. Less CPU
3. Less RAM
4. Less Ray Tracing
5. Less Storage
6. No 4 int & 8 int deep learning precision tops
7. ??No VRS??

 

[TCG276]

It's already confirmed to have exclusive PS5 games at launch.

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Are referring to rumors or an official statement by Sony? If you are referring to an official statement, please link me because I'm not seeing one. I would be shocked if they were willing to give the middle finger to their customers who bought a Pro.

 

[MillionIII]

The response that they got from the Vita storage probably scared the shit out of them as far as doing something like that again.

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Rightfully so, would be interesting to see the price difference between what Ms and Sony would be offering in terms of upgrading storage.

 

[btags]

I don't know why people keep quoting this, it goes against what Cerny stated in the video. He said both would generally hit max clocks, and if one was using less power than expected (while still running max clocks) the other could use the extra power under the power envelope to push harder. It's really not that complicated.

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This just doesn't make sense to me. They will both run at max clocks and when one is using less power the other will what, go maxer? I really think they should put a more clear explanation about the whole boost clock thing out there. Right now it is just a bunch of vague statements with no concrete examples.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

I think the coming generation will be a lot like the 360/PS3 era, though for different reasons. The PS5 will produce some stunning results with 1st party games, especially as developers learn to truly maximize the hardware, but the XSX will have a modest edge in nearly all 3rd party games. MS will produce a better stable of exclusives, but it will trend in the opposite direction of the 360 (weaker library at the start and stronger 1st party output as the generation goes on).

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A 16.5% difference is small, to the point where it will not be noticeable. Native 4k resolution is 3840x2160 or 8.3mpx and a 16.5% difference here is 3510x1974.38 or 6.9305mpx. Even in an over simplified comparison like this one, you are going to have to ask yourself if you can perceive this kind of difference, and this is without taking consideration to customizations in the gpu and high clocks which they chose to improve efficiency. We will have the results to judge for ourselves to see if this makes a tangible difference in their favour, but even without that the difference is minimal.

I don't believe this is the caee. The implication is that they can actually both run at their max speeds in tandem (hence a combined peak performance of 10.28 Tflops), depending on the power load. Were they not able to both hit this speed simultaneously, the peak performance tflop rating would be lower. Perhaps this is something that can be confirmed by Dark1x.

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This just doesn't make sense to me. They will both run at max clocks and when one is using less power the other will what, go maxer? I really think they should put a more clear explanation about the whole boost clock thing out there. Right now it is just a bunch of vague statements with no concrete examples.

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The direct quote from Cerny in the livestream was a couple of percentages lower clock speed equals a 10% decrease in power draw for absolute worst case situations. He is directly stating that the 2.23ghz speed is what will be running almost all the time and the decrease being an outlier. There might be some confusion in how things are worded in articles but the presentation was clear.

 

[RivalGT]

Both systems are relatively balanced this time around, I can see the XSX having a resolution advantage since it has the better GPU. Only thing strange for the XSX is the odd memory configuration, will have to see how that pans out for them.

 

[John Frost]

Are referring to rumors or an official statement by Sony? If you are referring to an official statement, please link me because I'm not seeing one. I would be shocked if they were willing to give the middle finger to their customers who bought a Pro.

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Just wait and see then^^

 

[Deleted member 20297]

You have an advantage by being weaker...wait what? I thought the whole point of an advantage is TO ACTUALY edge out/win out.

When you look at it.

1. Less GPU
2. Less CPU
3. Less RAM
4. Less Ray Tracing
5. Less Storage
6. No 4 int & 8 int deep learning precision tops
7. ??No VRS??

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But*twice* as fast an SSD. That is 100%. The other things you mention are not 100% better. It's all about the absolute percentages.

 

[ElephantShell]

Yeah, If you have to have more teraflops then get a Xbox, plenty of other reasons to be excited about the playstation and we haven't even seen the bloody thing yet.

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"Gotta have my pops" Corn Pops commercial but it's "gotta have my flops".

 

[TheMango55]

I don't know why people keep quoting this, it goes against what Cerny stated in the video. He said both would generally hit max clocks, and if one was using less power than expected (while still running max clocks) the other could use the extra power under the power envelope to push harder. It's really not that complicated.

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If they can hit those max clocks all the time then why are they variable at all? I just don't get the point, why not make them fixed like the xbox?

 

[mordecaii83]

This just doesn't make sense to me. They will both run at max clocks and when one is using less power the other will what, go maxer? I really think they should put a more clear explanation about the whole boost clock thing out there. Right now it is just a bunch of vague statements with no concrete examples.

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You have to separate clocks and power. Some workloads will use less power at the same clock speed. Running AVX instructions on a CPU, for example, uses far more power than almost any other workload.

If they can hit those max clocks all the time then why are they variable at all? I just don't get the point, why not make them fixed like the xbox?

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Because they can't hit them all the time, some workloads use much more power than others. Intel CPU's generally lower clocks 200MHz for AVX instructions due to power draw/heat for example.

 

[Mechaplum]

You have an advantage by being weaker...wait what? I thought the whole point of an advantage is TO ACTUALY edge out/win out.

When you look at it.

1. Less GPU
2. Less CPU
3. Less RAM
4. Less Ray Tracing
5. Less Storage
6. No 4 int & 8 int deep learning precision tops
7. ??No VRS??

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Calm your warrior genes, he was talking about higher clock and ssd speeds. What's with these new warrior accounts anyway?

 

[Fabtacular]

There was a time Sony was losing $200 for a piece of hardware? In a time without PSN? Jesus christ now i know how they went bankrupt...and why they are afraid to go overboard with prices ever since.

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That was on the $600 version. They were losing close to $300 on the $500 version, and more than $300 on the version sold in Japan.

 

[McScroggz]

I was actually talking about something much more simpler. The poster was talking about how people are saying "The Xbox series X is more brute force while PS5 is more optimizied." At the start of the current gen, people were saying that the PS4 was more brute force while Xbox One was optimized.

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That's not how I remember it. The poster above mentioned ESRAM which is what I couldn't remember. Some said the ESRAM would make up for the Xbox One's slower RAM. I don't recall much talk of more efficient or elegant solutions - and in that way it was reminiscent of the PS3 and Cell except the Xbox One was metaphorically patching a hole while the Cell was more bespoke (really nice but too complicated and had drawbacks).

I have no idea how PS5 will run GTAVI compared to the XSX. I will say that I believe Sony is telling the truth about the raw numbers (such as CPU cores and Teraflops) not being a great way to actually measure the performance of the console. I still expect the XSX to be more powerful, but there is at least SOME truth to the PS5 being optimized. And importantly Cerny mentioned that some of this, maybe most/all, are things that the developer doesn't really need to learn or know. It's just integrated into the system. Hence the <1 month time to triangle. If it was more like the Cell where it's complicated in a way that does have the potential for increased power but at the downside of increasing the time to learn and create games with, then I think the concerns would be more valid.

I don't know though. Maybe there is some secret sauce. DF certainly seemed impressed with the decisions that Sony made.

 

[NewErakid]

Calm your warrior genes, he was talking about higher clock and ssd speeds. What's with these new warrior accounts anyway?

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With the new console war on the horizon the new console war draft has gone into effect

 

[GING-SAMA]

That's not how I remember it. The poster above mentioned ESRAM which is what I couldn't remember. Some said the ESRAM would make up for the Xbox One's slower RAM. I don't recall much talk of more efficient or elegant solutions - and in that way it was reminiscent of the PS3 and Cell except the Xbox One was metaphorically patching a hole while the Cell was more bespoke (really nice but too complicated and had drawbacks).

I have no idea how PS5 will run GTAVI compared to the XSX. I will say that I believe Sony is telling the truth about the raw numbers (such as CPU cores and Teraflops) not being a great way to actually measure the performance of the console. I still expect the XSX to be more powerful, but there is at least SOME truth to the PS5 being optimized. And importantly Cerny mentioned that some of this, maybe most/all, are things that the developer doesn't really need to learn or know. It's just integrated into the system. Hence the <1 month time to triangle. If it was more like the Cell where it's complicated in a way that does have the potential for increased power but at the downside of increasing the time to learn and create games with, then I think the concerns would be more valid.

I don't know though. Maybe there is some secret sauce. DF certainly seemed impressed with the decisions that Sony made.

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I think feature like VRS,VRR,DLI,DirectML,DirectStorage is optimization or even Custom hardware like I/O system etc...


But put a fast SSD is just a choice.

 

[Belvedere]

RGT seems confident that VRS is a go for PS5.

 

[TheMango55]

Because they can't hit them all the time, some workloads use much more power than others. Intel CPU's generally lower clocks 200MHz for AVX instructions due to power draw/heat for example.

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So what situations would they have to be lower and would they ever be relevant for gaming scenarios?

I'm not that tech savvy to be honest but I'm seriously struggling to think about scenarios that a gaming console would have to sacrifice GPU power for things other than gaming.

"The GPU can't always hit the max TFlops but don't worry, during the most intense and graphically demanding parts of games, when the CPU is also likely to be pushed to the limits, there will be plenty of resources to max out the GPU"

 

[ILikeFeet]

You have an advantage by being weaker...wait what? I thought the whole point of an advantage is TO ACTUALY edge out/win out.

When you look at it.

1. Less GPU
2. Less CPU
3. Less RAM
4. Less Ray Tracing
5. Less Storage
6. No 4 int & 8 int deep learning precision tops
7. ??No VRS??

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the PS5 probably has the same deep learning and VRS abilities, but Sony just didn't touch on it. otherwise, why even use RDNA2

 

[mario_O]

Yes higher clocks do have advantages. I recall arguments on the xb1 side about pixel fill rates and the like. But, those high clock speed on the PS5 are the peak not sustained. What John glossed over in that video was that in order for the PS5 gpu to hit that 2.23Ghz number the cpu clock speed is lowered. So PS5 can't even hit peak cpu and gpu at the same time. Sustained performance vs constantly varying performance.

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It is sustained. Cerny said "almost all of the time GPU speed will be at 2.23". It won't be 100% of the time, but it's not a peak.

 

[TsuWave]

Are referring to rumors or an official statement by Sony? If you are referring to an official statement, please link me because I'm not seeing one. I would be shocked if they were willing to give the middle finger to their customers who bought a Pro.

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How does the PS5 having exclusive games at launch translate to a middle finger to/for Pro owners? 🤔

 

[blitzblake]

Ok so basically that SSD is the deciding factor between the two. Could be massive for first party titles. As in "only possible on the PS5" kinda massive.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Not true at all. If you're talking about the ESRAM, it was determined pretty early on that that was a necessary inclusion to the APU in order to make up for the slow RAM, but at the cost of a weaker GPU. Anybody saying it was an actual advantage was highly misinformed. The PS4 had a clear advantage in GPU power, just as the XSX has a clear advantage in GPU power now (at least in terms of raw compute). But that advantage is significantly smaller this time, and PS4 has its own advantages elsewhere (rasterization, audio, IO). MS and Sony have different priorities and each has its own strengths. That's wasn't really the case last time.

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This. This is actually pretty interesting. You will likely see directly comparable games (i.e., 3rd Party Multiplats) excel in different areas for each console. And you will see first party games play to each console's strengths for unique experiences on each platform.

 

[Jeffram]

the PS5 probably has the same deep learning and VRS abilities, but Sony just didn't touch on it. otherwise, why even use RDNA2

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Agreed, by that logic the PS5 doesn't have an HDMI port, or a controller... or a physical form.

 

[nullZr0]

Sony's TE could be their Kinect. Custom silicon that can do huge things but will gamers care about it when they can get Dolby Atmos? I believe this and the SSD may put Sony at $499.

No one asked for this. Cerny even admitted it. I believe this is Sony once again using Playstation to push yet another proprietary technology. That way they can sell TVs and sound systems to take advantage of it. I don't blame them. The company name is based on audio.

 

[Wereroku]

Ok so basically that SSD is the deciding factor between the two. Could be massive for first party titles. As in "only possible on the PS5" kinda massive.

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No the XSX is more powerful however df is saying that the higher clocks on the ps5 might allow it to perform closer then the straight tf number would make it seem. The SSD might lead to something like better lod or pop in.

 

[McScroggz]

I think feature like VRS,VRR,DLI,DirectML,DirectStorage is optimization or even Custom hardware like I/O system etc...


But put a fast SSD is just a choice.

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I can't debate the technicalities, sorry. Obviously the XSX isn't going to Newegg and ordering parts. It seems to me, though, that Sony is customizing the hardware much more, including having dedicated chips to make things run smoother and even 8 separate cores for audio.

Right now people are leaning on reductive statements and simplistic metaphors/examples and I get that. But when the DF guys are talking about the innovative and possibly game changing things Sony is doing with the PS5 I'm going to listen. Doesn't mean the PS5 is as powerful, but I also acknowledge that by my inadequate understanding of the consoles Sony absolutely have tinkered more with the hardware and we should be able to give them the credit. But idk.

 

[Exodia]

No the XSX is more powerful however df is saying that the higher clocks on the ps5 might allow it to perform closer then the straight tf number would make it seem. The SSD might lead to something like better lod or pop in.

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Why are ppl keep repeating this. They never said that. Did I miss a time stamp or something? Because at 8:00 where they mention it. They are talking specially GCN vs RDNA 2 Tflops

 

[TCG276]

How does the PS5 having exclusive games at launch translate to a middle finger to/for Pro owners? 🤔

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People who bought the Pro, less than 4 years ago, may expect to be able to play new playstation games.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Ok so basically that SSD is the deciding factor between the two. Could be massive for first party titles. As in "only possible on the PS5" kinda massive.

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Right...think of a return to the cartridge era of 2d gaming where everything was instant and certain kinds of interactions were built around that. Now think of it being translated into massive 3d worlds/universes.

I think people will be blown away the first time they experience exploring a full city where every building interior and exterior and the outside environment are accessible and transition between one another seamlessly: think NYC where you can walk in and out of every building or sky scrapers and everything is traversable in 3 dimensions (think spiderman or the matrix fully realized).

 

[Deleted member 20297]

Ok so basically that SSD is the deciding factor between the two. Could be massive for first party titles. As in "only possible on the PS5" kinda massive.

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If it's only for first party both companies can claim whatever they want because you'll not see the same game on the other system.

 

[ElNerdo]

I wonder how both consoles will allocate their RAM pool between games and OS.

Will Xbox use 6GB of the lower bandwidth RAM for the OS while the 10GB of higher bandwidth RAM will be allocated for games? How many GBs will the PS5 allocate to the OS? I wonder which console will have more RAM available for games.

Would using a mixture of different bandwidths for RAM be a detriment for games? Honest question that I hope someone more knowledgeable can answer.

 

[Wereroku]

Why are ppl keep repeating this. They never said that. Did I miss a time stamp or something?

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DF Direct: PlayStation 5 - The Official Specs, The Tech + Mark Cerny's Next-Gen Vision

Mark Cerny delivered an developer-focused tech talk on the PlayStation 5, covering off its key next-gen technologies and the philosophy behind them. We also ...

youtu.be

Here you go. They discuss how the higher clock speed improves various aspects of the GPU.

Edit: Can't get it to link with the time stamp they staying talking about that part around 9:52.

 

[Hellshy]

Sony's TE could be their Kinect. Custom silicon that can do huge things but will gamers care about it when they can get Dolby Atmos? I believe this and the SSD may put Sony at $499.

No one asked for this. Cerny even admitted it. I believe this is Sony once again using Playstation to push yet another proprietary technology. That way they can sell TVs and sound systems to take advantage of it. I don't blame them. The company name is based on audio.

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Certain people will care if the audio performs better then atmos but more importantly you will get 3d audio with any headphone you own instead of having to have atmos certified speakers.I think many gamers will appreciate that difference alone.