The charges against the teen being upgraded to "Murder - Terrorist Activity" is fucking huge from a legal standpoint.
Amazing job by the justice system here.
Amazing job by the justice system here.
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Deadly attack at Toronto erotic spa was incel terrorism, police allege
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
They are victims in a sense. They are victims of toxic masculinity, but they hate themselves and they act in ways that reinforce it instead of fighting against it. It's similar to how you sometimes see minorities that support the forces that oppress them for personal gain. I don't think they are victims because they can't get laid, only because of the psychological harm that other men have done to them. If that's not coming across before now, then I apologise for not being more clear.
The only reason I've been a bit dismissive about deplatforming is because far too many people see it as the end all be all and end up not looking at the bigger picture. I look into conspiracy and online movements all the time and see people fall for one form of indoctrination and get hooked on harder and harder stuff. I understand that culture change isn't easy and takes a long time, but I think it's important people understand that it's not like a movie where they just take down one or two sites and it's all over.
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I mean... my intro post actually encourages people not to say that could have been me... Because I don't actually believe most men could be that, and I think a dangerous idea is that they could.
I'm outright calling for people to not consider themselves ex death cultists actually.
What I am saying though is that yes if you genuinely believe you could have been an incel you're saying you could have been a dearth cultist.... but I'm saying you probably weren't.... and you should consider what it means if you say you were.
I've read your posts, it's still focused on making men the victim. Like the same pressures and shit exist for women and we don't all have ideal role models but we aren't all going around making terrorist organisations about raping and killing men, which incels do. It's not lack of role models or that they are depressed and lonely, it's that society is fine with women hating rhetoric and allows it to be spread, and social media platforms do nothing to stop it. Like I literally have an entire multi billion dollar industry that has told me since pretty much birth how I'm ugly and need multiple products to fix myself, and this is something that's been put on women for generations, and yet we aren't the ones snapping and killing others for being lonely or having low self esteem. The solution is not more sympathy for guys early on, it's nipping the behaviour in the bud so they never see it in the first place and that women aren't being continually victimised. That means deplatforming the shit.
Also, the rhetoric "that easily could have been me" is harmful as it suggests it's easy to hate women and to end up wanting to murder them, and that's not exactly fostering a welcome environment for women, is it? I find it deeply uncomfortable reading that stuff in threads, it honestly feels dehumanising.
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They hate women not themselves.... can't tell you how not helpful it is to hear toxic masculinity being used to establish incel who want to own, rape and murder women as victims in their own right.
This a detestable thing for you to say. I'm literally talking about us men taking the responsibility of doing everything in our power to stop this from happening. Isn't that something we all want?
Congrats! I'm literally talking about the same things! I'm literally talking about deplatforming wherever we can and men doing all we can to 'nip this in the bud' as early as possible as often as possible.
A discussion on how effective de-radicalization can occur is a worthwhile one, but one must be wary of veering into overly victimizing or infantilizing the perpetrators. And, of course, not throw women under the bus.
So much this.
Calm down. When multiple women tell you a thing and are clearly finding something objectionable in your comments, it might be wise to take a step back and listen.
It's time for the western world to address this incel problem, we have allowed them to fester and radicalize for far too long online. This wasn't even the first incel terrorist attack. Hell there was one last week in Germany!
Who the hell is "we"
I ain't trying to go sicko mode incel on women
You don't think you could've made that point without shitting on anyone who was victimized after age 10? And you are right, I don't know every single detail of how this person was radicalized, and neither do you. But I do know what being groomed and abused by online communities is like, and that experience combined with the experiences of other people who have been radicalized as minors by terrorist groups or hate groups tells me that this kind of thing doesn't happen overnight and that terrorist groups radicalizing minors into committing violence is abuse. It's an extremely common tactic for groups like this because teenagers are extremely vulnerable to this kind of abuse.
None of this is counter to what you are saying in this thread either, you are 100% right that incel ideology is just straight up misogyny that wants nothing more than to abuse, oppress, and kill women. I just don't know why you are being resistant to the idea that in addition to encouraging violence against women these groups are also abusing minors.
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You started talking about ISIS child soldiers that's why I said he was 17 not 10
Every single dude alive is a product of toxic masculinity. An infinitesimally small portion of dudes turn to this incel shit to cope with whatever the fuck people are apparently saying dudes need to cope with. Incels are not a product of toxic masculinity anymore than the rest of us who don't want to peddle misogyny are not a product of it. Can we stop this shit?
Incels don't need empathy for how hard it is to be a guy and not get laid, or not make friends or whatever the fuck it is. That's life, that's what the fuck everyone has to sit and battle with. The whole "that coulda been me" shit is not helpful. Don't empathize with these people. They don't need empathy, they need to be stamped out of fucking existence. Women suffer the same issues of failing to reach acceptance, being alone, not being seen as attractive, not belonging. Women are not self organizing and then creating terrorist attacks. Women are not destroying the quality of life for everyone due to their own feelings of inadequacy.
This whole guys supporting guys angle is dumb. If you care about those things then support them in a broad scale since society as a whole experiences them. And understand, the way you stop people from being able to be radicalized by this idea is by having a society that doesn't place so much value on these things to begin with. Telling a boy growing up that "girls didn't like me and I had trouble getting dates and meeting people and it gets better" isn't the solution to the problem, no kid gives a fuck about someone way older giving them platitudes. The solution is for society to promote self worth and being able to find happiness in yourself and that some people end up alone and that's fine because you're the only person who defines your self worth. It's for men to tell other dudes that women are their own people and they simply have as much right as you to decide who they want to be with and that's perfectly fine.
Yeah we have to deplatform these dudes. No it isn't the end all be solution but what people here are vehemently defending isn't even a solution to begin with. It's the equivalent of saying "I coulda been a racist if one things had turned out slightly different for me so we need to reach out to these people" then using that basis to start a dialogue with racists. That's not the message you want. You don't want to frame these people as victims and you don't want to make the issue seem like its this super easy casual thing to get tripped up in. No it isn't.
Edit: Spelling mistake.
Incels don't need empathy for how hard it is to be a guy and not get laid, or not make friends or whatever the fuck it is. That's life, that's what the fuck everyone has to sit and battle with. The whole "that coulda been me" shit is not helpful. Don't empathize with these people. They don't need empathy, they need to be stamped out of fucking existence. Women suffer the same issues of failing to reach acceptance, being alone, not being seen as attractive, not belonging. Women are not self organizing and then creating terrorist attacks. Women are not destroying the quality of life for everyone due to their own feelings of inadequacy.
This whole guys supporting guys angle is dumb. If you care about those things then support them in a broad scale since society as a whole experiences them. And understand, the way you stop people from being able to be radicalized by this idea is by having a society that doesn't place so much value on these things to begin with. Telling a boy growing up that "girls didn't like me and I had trouble getting dates and meeting people and it gets better" isn't the solution to the problem, no kid gives a fuck about someone way older giving them platitudes. The solution is for society to promote self worth and being able to find happiness in yourself and that some people end up alone and that's fine because you're the only person who defines your self worth. It's for men to tell other dudes that women are their own people and they simply have as much right as you to decide who they want to be with and that's perfectly fine.
Yeah we have to deplatform these dudes. No it isn't the end all be solution but what people here are vehemently defending isn't even a solution to begin with. It's the equivalent of saying "I coulda been a racist if one things had turned out slightly different for me so we need to reach out to these people" then using that basis to start a dialogue with racists. That's not the message you want. You don't want to frame these people as victims and you don't want to make the issue seem like its this super easy casual thing to get tripped up in. No it isn't.
Edit: Spelling mistake.
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Whether young and budding incels deserve sympathy and understanding or shame and exile is less important to me than the result those actions have on determining whether there is one more murderous incel in the world. One could argue criminals in Nordic countries deserve punishment more severe than they get, but evidence seems to point that rehabilitation is more helpful than punishment.
Deplatform toxic influencers, punish criminals and those who spread hateful rhetoric, and provide outreach and support to those vulnerable to that rhetoric all seem like valuable goals.
Also don't see why these efforts have to come at the expense of sympathy and support for women, as some posters have implied? Why is empathy and support a zero sum game?
Deplatforming is extremely valuable, it's just not the one and only tool to use.
Deplatform toxic influencers, punish criminals and those who spread hateful rhetoric, and provide outreach and support to those vulnerable to that rhetoric all seem like valuable goals.
Also don't see why these efforts have to come at the expense of sympathy and support for women, as some posters have implied? Why is empathy and support a zero sum game?
Deplatforming is extremely valuable, it's just not the one and only tool to use.
Toxic masculinity is a general concept that manifests in different ways and has to be handled in different ways. This is a thread about a very specific trend of bigotry and violence against women. Assigning that behavior to a broader "toxic masculinity" umbrella is not helpful and deemphasizes the extreme misogyny that drives this trend.
There are a number of things you can assign to "toxic masculinity". But do you want to go into a thread about, say, the Klan to tell people: "The problem here is lonely men told they are lesser, so they start putting on white hoods"? It's not helpful because A. It's not actually a solution, B. It glosses over the responsibility of hate groups and rhetoric, and C. It always brings the focus to helping the perpetrators and not the actual victims.
Not sure how you would jump to the conclusion I was assuming you were, but the statement still applies to all men. Including myself.
The least we can do.
movements like these prey on young vulnerable boys, yes. it's the same with neo-nazis and religious extremism as others have brought up
i think that's a big argument for deplatforming. if this shit is not tolerated on youtube and other online spaces, that means there are that many fewer avenues for these people to reach the people they're trying to radicalize
i think that's a big argument for deplatforming. if this shit is not tolerated on youtube and other online spaces, that means there are that many fewer avenues for these people to reach the people they're trying to radicalize
The kids ISIS were grooming were 13-17, that's exactly WHY I brought it up. Why do you keep saying "10 years old" as if that's the cutoff point of grooming and abuse of minors?
Thank you, that's the point I'm trying to make here.
I once read through some of the incel wikipedia
it was like uh huh, uh huh, makes sense... then I'd read some shit about how women are at fault for all of society's problems and some awful racist shit and I realized quickly that they're very incorrect, very dangerous, and very dumb
I've said it a bunch and I'm not qualified to speak on it authoritatively, but my thought is that just because these fuckos happen to have insecurities that a lot of men can identify with (myself included, having embarrassingly labelled myself an incel for years as a teenager) doesn't mean literal mass murderers deserve sympathy
it was like uh huh, uh huh, makes sense... then I'd read some shit about how women are at fault for all of society's problems and some awful racist shit and I realized quickly that they're very incorrect, very dangerous, and very dumb
I've said it a bunch and I'm not qualified to speak on it authoritatively, but my thought is that just because these fuckos happen to have insecurities that a lot of men can identify with (myself included, having embarrassingly labelled myself an incel for years as a teenager) doesn't mean literal mass murderers deserve sympathy
Incels are absolutely not victims in any sense.
I'm not talking about converting incels. They're too far gone. We absolutely need to deplatform them. We absolutely need to stamp them out. We need stronger laws on hate speech, and misogynistic hate speech specifically. Just as with this incident, we need to recognize it for the terrorism it is.
But what I'm also talking about is we men, as parents, role models, peers, the media, and men in society in general getting to boys earlier so they never come to that point - teaching them properly. Or at the very least, getting them right before they make that choice and cross over too far. And I'm not talking about doing so through empathy and understanding, but teaching them about how these warped feelings are simply wrong. I'm placing the responsibility on us men to stop us from producing as many more of these monsters as we can. We (men) have made the problems of these monsters to begin with - we have to stop them from being created. And I have to believe we can stop them from growing up this way, because if I don't, I feel like I'm giving up responsibility for the changes we need to make.
When I personally speak about a time earlier in my life when I didn't hold the views I hold now, you have to understand, although I don't think those ways anymore, I absolutely saw guys that went the other way. I saw the radicalization happening. And even though 99.99% of those treading deeper into misogyny would never themselves commit acts of violence, they were perpetuating it. And again, I'm talking about like 17 years ago, but for me, that was things like you'd be on a part of 4chan that certainly wasn't great about women, like the channels on video games, and then you'd watch as certain users progressed into much worse parts of it, and then other sites.
To some of us, this radicalization was something we watched happening in real time. So for me at least, I'm not necessarily saying 'it could have been me', but more 'how many around me became like that? was I really so close to that?'. So when I talk about stopping this radicalization, it's not because I empathize with those who are too far gone, but because I saw it happening, it makes me believe it CAN be stopped.
I'm not talking about converting incels. They're too far gone. We absolutely need to deplatform them. We absolutely need to stamp them out. We need stronger laws on hate speech, and misogynistic hate speech specifically. Just as with this incident, we need to recognize it for the terrorism it is.
But what I'm also talking about is we men, as parents, role models, peers, the media, and men in society in general getting to boys earlier so they never come to that point - teaching them properly. Or at the very least, getting them right before they make that choice and cross over too far. And I'm not talking about doing so through empathy and understanding, but teaching them about how these warped feelings are simply wrong. I'm placing the responsibility on us men to stop us from producing as many more of these monsters as we can. We (men) have made the problems of these monsters to begin with - we have to stop them from being created. And I have to believe we can stop them from growing up this way, because if I don't, I feel like I'm giving up responsibility for the changes we need to make.
When I personally speak about a time earlier in my life when I didn't hold the views I hold now, you have to understand, although I don't think those ways anymore, I absolutely saw guys that went the other way. I saw the radicalization happening. And even though 99.99% of those treading deeper into misogyny would never themselves commit acts of violence, they were perpetuating it. And again, I'm talking about like 17 years ago, but for me, that was things like you'd be on a part of 4chan that certainly wasn't great about women, like the channels on video games, and then you'd watch as certain users progressed into much worse parts of it, and then other sites.
To some of us, this radicalization was something we watched happening in real time. So for me at least, I'm not necessarily saying 'it could have been me', but more 'how many around me became like that? was I really so close to that?'. So when I talk about stopping this radicalization, it's not because I empathize with those who are too far gone, but because I saw it happening, it makes me believe it CAN be stopped.
Then why are the killing themselves and their communities filled with posts idealizing self harm? FFS they have post called "ropefuel" These people arguably hate themselves as much as they hate women. Their hate for women is born from the radicalization (well a lot of them were probably already sexist to some degree), but the self hate originated outside of incel culture and then gets reinforced once they start to be radicalized. They believe that by rolling back women's rights they will somehow return to a prelapsarian ideal where would be incels were paired up with their "looksmatch" through sexist practices like forced marriage. They are told to hate women because they think feminism and other women's movements created a culture where women only want the masculine ideal that they failed to live up to, which is why they can't get laid. Hence incels react with harassment and violence to women that don't fit their world view. They even harass men (though to a lesser extent) that they feel aren't dating their "looksmatch".
See this is my problem. Some people aren't looking at anything beyond the surface level. You're just seeing the violent misogyny that results from the radicalization. Not what led them down that path. You have to look at everything about this group if you want to combat it effectively. If they're just seen as sexist losers mad they can't get laid then no one will take them seriously.
Eliminating toxic masculinity would also help women, probably even more then it'd help men.
Whether it's Incels, whether it's White Nationalists, shooting sprees, whether it's Islamist Extremists, whether it's Inner City gangs... there's a fundamental governmental and societal failing causing these people to be lost to these poisonous pipelines. I see all of these aforementioned maladies as being part of the same meta illness, a meta illness that runs through Western society, particularly the Anglosphere. What that meta illness is or why it is happening I can't say for sure. But a healthy society doesn't end up with people like this popping out of them.
2 things that come to mind towards alleviating these massacres from happening. A greater sense of solidarity and community would be one way of destroying these pipelines. People will feel that belonging and sense of something greater than themselves, no need to fall down the pipeline if you're already in a nice healthy one.
Another would be mental health services to be better funded, more accessible and less stigmatised. So when these people feel a dissatisfaction in their life they don't end up in these toxic pipelines, they end up in the pipeline of mental health services and counselling.
2 things that come to mind towards alleviating these massacres from happening. A greater sense of solidarity and community would be one way of destroying these pipelines. People will feel that belonging and sense of something greater than themselves, no need to fall down the pipeline if you're already in a nice healthy one.
Another would be mental health services to be better funded, more accessible and less stigmatised. So when these people feel a dissatisfaction in their life they don't end up in these toxic pipelines, they end up in the pipeline of mental health services and counselling.
There we go, that's the good stuff. Thanks for this post.
excelsiorlef is right. These threads are always beshitted with incel empathy beyond the pale.
STOP saying "that could have been me." Fucking stop it. I'm tired (terrified?) of hearing how easy it is for men to hate us. How misogyny is so simple and compelling compared to the complex challenge of...treating women as if they are actually people like you? Do you hear yourselves? Fuckin' scary, my dudes.
I think this part in particular bears repeating. Chef kiss.
It freaks me out when responses to incels are about how to improve their chances of getting women. "Go to the gym! Get better clothes!"*
Nobody should want to subject me or my fellow femmes to that toxic shit. Getting dates won't fix what's wrong with an incel, especially when the entire conversation is still couched in the assumption that Women Owe Somebody Attention.
Even if every current adult woman on the planet decided they didn't want to have sex with men until further notice, we should still be entitled to bodily autonomy, human rights, and basic fucking interpersonal respect.
Men's ability to empathize with other humans absolutely cannot be based on whether their sexual "needs" are being met, and it isn't the responsibility of femme folk to bear the world's give-a-fuck duties so goddamn disproportionately.
No one is entitled to women's bodies or emotional labor. We need to start normalizing forms of self-worth that aren't dependent on misogynistic underpinnings.
* "Get counseling" is always a great suggestion though.
By making a girlfriend and sex be the sole defining point of one's existence. These are men who might have started off introverted and interested in sex/relationships, but through a mix of a lack of self-awareness, stunted empathy, self-entitlement and reinforcement form the status quo it warped into beliefs that they've been denied it through a conspiracy orchestrated mainly by women and secondarily by the men they choose instead of them. They think their owed sex and women's bodies because paradoxically they feel they're a superior rarefied class of person that is supposed to be given what they want simply for existing. And in that mindset, sex workers or women in charge of their own bodies/sexuality in general are purposefully breaking a natural contract of not serving one of them exclusively. It isn't coincidence that pedophiles greatly intersect with these communities (HuffPo) and you can often see them fantasizing about girls as well as women their age amongst themselves because it's all about women being moldable, pliable toys useful for emotionally and sexually satisfying them specifically to obtain and discard at their whim.
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I don't know how any man could think"these could be me" with incels. Do you think that of yourself when you see a racist, a nazi, a terrorist? Because it's the same.
Make no mistake, millions of people live without having had any relationship and they don't turn into incels, this is not about loners that didn't get laid or where alone or any shit, almost everyone has been in a dark place at a point in their lifes, this is just about straight evil mysogynistic men that use the incel ideology as a platform, same as how racist may use nazism or other platforms. This is not about getting laid, you don't get radicalized into hating women if you don't already have any grudge against them, these are hateful people that seek and find validation in their hate around an ideology, and shouldn't be treated differently that other hate-ideologies.
Make no mistake, millions of people live without having had any relationship and they don't turn into incels, this is not about loners that didn't get laid or where alone or any shit, almost everyone has been in a dark place at a point in their lifes, this is just about straight evil mysogynistic men that use the incel ideology as a platform, same as how racist may use nazism or other platforms. This is not about getting laid, you don't get radicalized into hating women if you don't already have any grudge against them, these are hateful people that seek and find validation in their hate around an ideology, and shouldn't be treated differently that other hate-ideologies.
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Yes, spot on.
People are letting incels hijack, appropriate and own the concept of "involuntary celibacy". The majority of involuntarily celibates are people embedded within real life, they aren't weirdos on the fringes or edge of society.
Imagine Muslims reacted to Islamist terrorist attacks by saying "this could be me".
To be fair, I don't believe in the concept of "involuntary celibate". I feel qualifying someone not having a relationship as an involuntary celibate imposed on that person has some problematic connotations by itself. A relationship is always a 2-way road and classyfing it as involuntary seems to shift the blame in the other person or atleast exclude you of any responsability in your lack of success, atleast that's how I see it.
I was too afraid to make this exact point in case of getting hounded for "showing incels as victims."
Incels ending up down a pipeline of misogyny and murder is obviously wrong.
But they aren't turning that way in a bubble away from wider society. Our society, advertising and Mass Media takes advantage of our biological urges and brainwashes our self-worth to be tied as much as possible to social status and sexuality. If you aren't X or Y you are worthless.
Some people break free of these toxic mentalities and are "off the grid" so to speak. They live fulfilling lives, they have actual hobbies, fulfilling jobs and their time and habits aren't at the behest of the puppet strings at the hands of mass media, advertising and societal traditional expectations.
Most people weave and manoeuvre through this toxic society in their lives without falling down the Incel pipeline, but there are probably other problems caused by this toxic society that are implicitly embedded within society, rather than manifested overtly like Incels are.
It's basically a classic case of "we need to focus on the cause, we are focusing on the symptoms."
Well said and thank you for enlightening me. The concept is just another manifestation of Toxic Masculinity that is in sheeps clothing. I wish there was a better term to describe this kind of situation.
This is my, probably uneducated, thought as well.
I was under the impression that incel as a community was born as a harmless community of people sharing and bitching that they couldn't get laid, looking for peer compassion and later was radicalized in their own subreddit (and with the help of 4chan? No clue) and now they're justa bunch of women-hating terrorists. Not sure if it's different people or it's the same old people (or people with an identical background) that just gets radicalized by active militants (I guess the word is correct since now they do terrorist acts) or just by the sheer rush of dopamine by having other users incite their hateful slogans.
Maybe they were always like this and I never bothered to learn about it because they were an internet niche. But I think that's why a lot of older netizens are interested in their origin and development. It's absolutely a priority to talk about women when they're the victims of these terrorist acts, of course.
Yeah. I understand the "they're human too" mindset. If one wants to come from a place of empathy to encourage growth, that's mostly fine and that person's prerogative.But, like you mentioned, the thing about incels and other radical beliefs is that there is the second part of change that people too often overlook: self-reflection & desire. It doesn't really matter how much you say you empathize with their mindset or past selves when just by claiming the incel label and entering into their communities, they've already tossed the idea of learning, bettering themselves, & growing into empathy for others beyond the tip of their nose.
They say they want the figures, personalities, style etc. of the men they consider undeserving of the sex & relationships they covet but don't or rarely make those efforts because what they get off on isn't even the want for genuine love or even sex but the rage, entitlement, superiority & desire for violence. Targeting women for their ire and fanning the flames of their own bigotry and anger makes them feel better and drives them. They don't want to give sympathy to others. They don't want to actually be vulnerable and honest. They don't want to give love. They don't want to grow. They say they do but what they truly want is power & victims to inflict it on (in their own heads or in real life).
"Why am I angry?", "Why am I having and sharing daydreams about raping every woman I see?", "Why am I participating in a community/social group where we discuss how to turn children into personal sex slaves?" "Why am I spending the time I could be using to enrich myself, make friends or generally make the effort to be happy with myself, to worship at the alter of killers like Elliot Rodger and the atrocities they commit?" Until internally one flips that switch back and starts to ask some of these questions of themselves, it will be rare for any empathy we say we have for them to penetrate. Until then well still be outsiders they ridicule and ignore because we "don't actually understand their 'struggles'".
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The whole teaching boys to be better as they're growing up thing is great and all, and needs to happen, but what your post and almost every other post from a man in this thread are missing is actually taking the responsibility to speak up when you hear that shit being spewed. That's something you can actually do immediately to help. Right now, that responsibility is mostly taken up by women, who men (especially incels) simply do not listen to and respect enough to stop. This means when you hear a friend (especially in an online space) or a coworker saying some shit, you speak up and shut that shit down. The problem is most men are too afraid of being considered "weak" or god forbid "a feminist" for speaking up against violence against women, so they simply stay quiet and let this shit go on. If you don't speak up, people think it's okay. People think you're in on it with them. This is obviously like aside from deplatforming places where incels and nazies, etc. can thrive, but these are things we all can do right now to help set the tone.
And as an aside, for like the millionth time in this thread, directed at all the posts that keep saying this "bu-bu-but men have so much pressure to be in a relationship :( :( :(" shit, women have JUST AS MUCH PRESSURE to be in a relationship, to be attractive, etc. as men do (and tbh men don't have the added pressure of "UR EGGS ARE GOING TO WITHER AND DIE IF U DON'T GET PREGNANT FRESHLY AT 18!!), and yet we aren't the ones out here getting radicalized to kill men. We're the ones getting raped and killed ourselves.
Wait, really? THAT part makes no sense to me.
And here I thought I was finally understanding things.
See, the part about being denied sex and/or romantic companionship is ignoring what's been in the past, it's all about the now.
To those people it doesn't matter if they've been successful in the past, it's that they are being denied right now. And that's how they justify their hatred for woman.
I've considered myself to be an incel in the past as well. I may have not been as far gone as to plan attacks on people, but I was far enough to feel entitled to be in a relationship or having sex simply by existing. "Coincidentally", that was also the time where I spent the most time on 4chan compared to any other point in my life.
The thing is: That phase came after my first serious relationship and me losing my virginity. I talked in an earlier post how PUA's, among others are also a pipeline for turning into an incel.
That's because that's how I ended up with that mindset.
An Teenager or even an adult, who got very lucky with their first relationship, but ended up being single with literally no experience how dating works is ideal prey for those people to "recruit" more potential incels.
wait, who's doing that!?
There are plenty of horny lonely dudes reading this story and thinking that guy's a fucking loser POS - and as alone or desperate as they feel - are never ever ever going to blame it on society or women - some of them will just accept it, some of them know it's temporary and some of them will do things to actively improve their lot. But nobody in this thread is conflating any of those people with violent or hateful organized incels. 99.9% of us can absolutely empathize with feeling weak or alone or shunned or ugly. That's a universal human condition - worse for some than others and sometimes chronically so. But the idea that any non-Chad is an incel isn't a thing.
Poking fun at your friend for being a virgin or a shut in, does not create a murderer. And being miserable about having no girlfriend doesn't prompt normal people to join a community of hateful turds. And there's no meaningful movement of people suggesting, thinking or believing anyone who's not a 4th dan cockmaster is an incel.
I'm talking about the word and how it's used generally because it has two very different meanings now. So it's more of an association thing than anything else. Being an incel was never a good thing, but now with this movement there's a lot more weight and assumed meaning behind the word than originally intended. The word itself is wrapping these two different parties together, at least that's how I'm viewing it.
I just haven't seen that. Incel in my experience has been a very tightly focused term.