Deadly attack at Toronto erotic spa was incel terrorism, police allege

[excelsiorlef]

A deadly attack at a Toronto erotic massage parlour three months ago is now being treated as an act of terrorism after police allegedly uncovered evidence it was inspired by misogynist incel ideology.
Charges against the suspect accused of carrying out the Feb. 24 stabbing attack, which killed a woman and injured another, were updated in court on Tuesday to "murder — terrorist activity."

The suspect, who cannot be named because he is a minor, was already facing first-degree and attempted murder charges, but the development means police believe the incident was terrorism-related.

Global News has learned police are alleging the attack was inspired by the incel movement made up of men unable to attract sexual partners who promote violence against women on internet forums.

Experts said it was the first time a terrorism charge had been laid over violence tied to incels, a term that refers to self-described "involuntary celibates."

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It's about time we start treating incel ideology for what it is.

So reminder next time you think that could have been me, you're admitting you could have been a terrorist... Think better of yourself. In other words stop conflating being sad and lonely or whatever with incel ideology. It's time we treat it for what it is a terrorist movement.

The incident points to the evolving threat posed by the incel movement, which a recent paper said was "flourishing, ideologically evolving, and continuing to threaten more … attacks."

Almost 50 deaths in Canada and the United States have been linked to incels, leading to calls to treat their actions as a form of domestic terrorism.

Canadian authorities had been reluctant to make use of federal anti-terrorism laws following incidents such as the 2018 Toronto van attack, preferring to charge suspects with non-terrorism offences.

Although the van attack suspect Alek Minassian allegedly told police after ramming pedestrians on Toronto's busy Yonge Street that he was part of an "incel rebellion," he was not charged with terrorism.

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The time for pity and compassion for incels is over.

Deadly attack at Toronto erotic spa was incel terrorism, police allege | Globalnews.ca

Experts said it was the first time anywhere in the world a terrorism charge has been laid over violence tied to the “involuntary celibate” misogynist movement.

globalnews.ca

 

[Silvergun-Blue]

The time for pity and compassion for incels is over.

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There was never a time this group deserved pity/compassion. It's an utterly vile ideology based completely on men feeling entitled to women's bodies.

 

[Deleted member 9399]

Didn't the guy behind the van attack a couple of years back also identify as incel? This shit needs to be stomped out yesterday.

 

[Jam]

Dangerous ideology that easily radicalises young teens with online culture. Most of them are in it for the "luls" but there's an ever increasing amount taking it as deadly serious and acting on it leading to events like this.

The entire ideology needs to be nipped in the bud, social media entities like Reddit/Twitter have a lot to answer for in letting it fester and spread.

It absolutely should be recognised by law enforcement as domestic terrorism and met with the necessary response and resources.

 

[P-MAC]

Purge the lowlifes from the web and treat it as hate speech. Feel so sorry for the women who died, imagine being killed over something so pathetic.

 

[OnionPowder]

The time for pity and compassion for incels is over.

Deadly attack at Toronto erotic spa was incel terrorism, police allege | Globalnews.ca

Experts said it was the first time anywhere in the world a terrorism charge has been laid over violence tied to the “involuntary celibate” misogynist movement.

globalnews.ca

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Inceldom as a movement is not something that really needed compassion and pity.

Sure guys who can't get laid, that sure sucks. I'm in that same boat so I feel that hardcore, but crying that you're an incel and it's the fault of the women or people you try to fuck is always backwards and implies they're owed sex, which nobody is.

 

[Huey]

There was never a time this group deserved pity/compassion. It's an utterly vile ideology based completely on men feeling entitled to women's bodies.

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Yeah I don't recall there ever being calls for pity for this group. They are murderers motivated by their perceived right to sex, who could possibly sympathize

 

[MrCibb]

Was there ever pity and compassion for incels? Just some sad cunts who would rather blame anything but their own shite personalities for why they can't get laid.

Sooner it gets recognized as what it is the better. Not sure what people are waiting for.

 

[Kernel]

So reminder next time you think that could have been me, you're admitting you could have been a terrorist... Think better of yourself. In other words stop conflating being sad and lonely or whatever with incel ideology

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I think a lot of them start out as loners and then get radicalized into terrorists on chat rooms/message boards whatever. Need to cut off that recruitment pipeline.

Bur you're correct, there's a big chasm between feeling lonely/depressed and wanting to murder people in the name of Elliot Rodger.

 

[Squarehard]

The time for pity and compassion for incels is over.

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Was this common other than by other incels?

 

[HomokHarcos]

I think a lot of them start out as loners and then get radicalized into terrorists on chat rooms/message boards whatever. Need to cut off that recruitment pipeline.

Bur you're correct, there's a big chasm between feeling lonely/depressed and wanting to murder people in the name of Elliot Rodger.

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I'm sure these people are already toxic individuals.

 

[OnionPowder]

I think a lot of them start out as loners and then get radicalized into terrorists on chat rooms/message boards whatever. Need to cut off that recruitment pipeline.

Bur you're correct, there's a big chasm between feeling lonely/depressed and wanting to murder people in the name of Elliot Rodger.

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Yeah, the pipeline is the problem.

I grew up in the south with a republican father, I easily could have turned into a fascist, but I didn't. Recognizing points in your life where you're weak and the recruiting pipeline that seeks out people in those shitty situations could have snagged you isn't a problem with the person, but a shitty situation and shitty people who take advantage of it.

A lot of the people who fall into it are probably shitters from the getgo, but there are genuinely good people who could have been corrupted down that path or who have already been. That's the scary part.

 

[krazen]

The time for pity and compassion for incels is over.

Deadly attack at Toronto erotic spa was incel terrorism, police allege | Globalnews.ca

Experts said it was the first time anywhere in the world a terrorism charge has been laid over violence tied to the “involuntary celibate” misogynist movement.

globalnews.ca

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Yup. Less 'hey they are misunderstood and depressed', more 'We need to stop the recruitment workflow' like we did with ISIS.

As long as it's seen as harmless dudes venting the issue is just going to fester and eventually become a legit public movement just like their adjacent buddies alt-right did.

 

[jph139]

This isn't a story I was familiar with, so when I saw "cannot be named because he is a minor" it kind of blew my mind. Like, that says it all, really - there are millions and millions of lonely teenage virgins out there. They don't hate women, they don't go on stabbing sprees - there's a fuse being lit somewhere that's not normal and shouldn't be treated like it is.

And, I gotta say it, sex workers have enough to worry about without radicalized misogynist terrorism on top of everything else, y'know?

 

[capitalCORN]

.

 

[Silvergun-Blue]

Yeah I don't recall there ever being calls for pity for this group. They are murderers motivated by their perceived right to sex, who could possibly sympathize

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Was this common other than by other incels?

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Sadly, there's a tendency to lump them in with the good old excuse of "mental health issues"
There's no denying that depression and toxic male culture are contributing factors, but it's no excuse.

 

[Violence Jack]

I've never seen anyone show compassion nor sympathize with Incels. They've always been looked at as pathetic losers who throw tantrums when being told no in my experience.

 

[Deleted member 198]

I'm sure these people are already toxic individuals.

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Are you suggesting we do nothing?

 

[KillLaCam]

Incel terrorists confuse me more than any terrorists

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Sure guys who can't get laid, that sure sucks. I'm in that same boat so I feel that hardcore, but crying that you're an incel and it's the fault of the women or people you try to fuck is always backwards and implies they're owed sex, which nobody is.

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Honestly the thing is that a lot of the people in the movement have had sex before. Many are married. Like, the identification at this point is solely about (re-)normalizing the abuse of women.

 

[ItsTheLittleThings]

How do we even address this? :s

 

[HomokHarcos]

Are you suggesting we do nothing?

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Banning incel forums would go a long way. I don't know why websites that harbor terrorists are even allowed on the net.

 

[OnionPowder]

Honestly the thing is that a lot of the people in the movement have had sex before. Many are married. Like, the identification at this point is solely about (re-)normalizing the abuse of women.

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That's a good point. There's a huge part also about the fake purity of young women that are completely subservient to them. They want to be the masters in a relationship where they are emphasize themselves forever. It's not about just getting laid, because women are "dirty"

At the end of the day it's about power.

 

[TaySan]

It's time we need to treat these people like the terrorists they are. R.I.P to all the lives lost to these pathetic losers.

 

[Jam]

.

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Okay now I'm curious what you said?

 

[Alucrid]

Was this common other than by other incels?

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not aware of mainstream sympathies (not that they can't exist) but it certainly was with lobster man

 

[Crossing Eden]

I've never seen anyone show compassion nor sympathize with Incels.

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The last time an incel murdered multiple people someone multiple people, men specifically ofc, wrote articles about how we should hear incels out, with the most famous being on the New York Times. The subject? "We should "redistribute" sex for incels." And yes it's as awful as it sounds,

 

[Deleted member 27246]

Honestly the thing is that a lot of the people in the movement have had sex before. Many are married. Like, the identification at this point is solely about (re-)normalizing the abuse of women.

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Since when is this? I observed this group on reddit a while ago and they were definitely not married.

 

[Deleted member 12833]

What is incel ideology?

 

[Gwenpoolshark]

Didn't the guy behind the van attack a couple of years back also identify as incel? This shit needs to be stomped out yesterday.

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Yup.That was also in Toronto. Weird and horrible.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Was this common other than by other incels?

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Yes.

Contrapoints for example her entire video was all about understanding them, relating to them, and wanting to save them. Lip service was paid to their misogyny, the focus was on the loneliness and whatever.

Incel threads often have multiple men expressing how that could have been them.

A lot of incel conversation is fundamentally centred on the men instead of their targets. There's a massive focus on saving incels rather than protecting women.

 

[Crossing Eden]

What is incel ideology?

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The rise of incels: How a support group for the dateless became a violent internet subculture

What incels believe — and the dangers they pose.

www.vox.com

It's very very explicit misogyny.

 

[excelsiorlef]

How do we even address this? :s

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Wipe out every meeting place online they have, end all recruitment lines.

 

[excelsiorlef]

What is incel ideology?

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The abject dehumanization of women.


Women are to be owned, raped and murdered.

That's what they stand for.

 

[Moff]

A lot of incel conversation is fundamentally centred on the men instead of their targets. There's a massive focus on saving incels rather than protecting women.

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that's not really different from other acts of terrorism though, people want to know what radicalized islamist terrorists or nazis to find a way to prevent it. so this is a sign that it is treated as terrorism, which I agree with.

 

[Kernel]

I'm sure these people are already toxic individuals.

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I don't know... are we all just one bad day away from killing people?

I'm thinking a lot of these people probably had underlying issues that are being taken advantage of, same deal with the alt-right.

Give miserable people someone to blame for their situation and a lot will buy in.

Yeah, the pipeline is the problem.

I grew up in the south with a republican father, I easily could have turned into a fascist, but I didn't. Recognizing points in your life where you're weak and the recruiting pipeline that seeks out people in those shitty situations could have snagged you isn't a problem with the person, but a shitty situation and shitty people who take advantage of it.

A lot of the people who fall into it are probably shitters from the getgo, but there are genuinely good people who could have been corrupted down that path or who have already been. That's the scary part.

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Well said. I'm not making excuses for evil behavior but people are being used.

There's been screenshots of white supremacist chatrooms of them egging people on to do a mass shooting etc.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Since when is this? I observed this group on reddit a while ago and they were definitely not married.

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I remember a couple reports of some of the bigger posters on the subreddit being married with kids, but this was like...4-5 years ago at this point I think?

 

[ItsTheLittleThings]

Wipe out every meeting place online they have, end all recruitment lines.

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hm... I guess that's a start. On the other hand, people can still be driven to start it up again somewhere else on the internet.

 

[Squarehard]

Yes.

Contrapoints for example her entire video was all about understanding them, relating to them, and wanting to save them. Lip service was paid to their misogyny, the focus was on the loneliness and whatever.

Incel threads often have multiple men expressing how that could have been them.

A lot of incel conversation is fundamentally centred on the men instead of their targets. There's a massive focus on saving incels rather than protecting women.

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That's certainly unfortunate people outside of the alt-right circles are making that argument.

 

[Deleted member 12833]

The rise of incels: How a support group for the dateless became a violent internet subculture

What incels believe — and the dangers they pose.

www.vox.com

It's very very explicit misogyny.

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Gotcha. I knew what one was but didn't know they had an ideology.

 

[excelsiorlef]

that's not really different from other acts of terrorism though, people want to know what radicalized islamist terrorists or nazis to find a way to prevent it. so this is a sign that it is treated as terrorism, which I agree with.

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There is way less focus on how sad and pitiful ISIS and Nazis are, or that could have been me.

Women are almost always an afterthought in discussions about incels because the discussions largely become "it's such a tragedy how these boys turn out"

 

[excelsiorlef]

hm... I guess that's a start. On the other hand, people can still be driven to start it up again somewhere else on the internet.

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And then you wipe that one out too

 

[Nightbird]

Incels don't deserve pity.

They are a group of people who blame their loneliness on everything but themselves and feel entitled to romantic or sexual companionship purely because they exist.

They are a group of people that don't understand that in order to become someone's eventual partner you gotta be a person and not a pile of eternal self-pity with no hope of any kind of improvement.


Sorry if those words were too harsh for some, but that's how I geniuly feel about it.

 

[Stinkles]

It's the least "involuntary " situation ever.

There are plenty of people in that bowel of a movement with profound incurable maladies and suffering I can't begin to imagine and in the abstract my heart breaks for their lot in life* - but it only exists as a movement because of the voluntary choices able-bodied mentally functional people make in the pursuit of peer acceptance where the pursuit of sympathy or companionship has failed.



They can choose to be alone and silent, or improve their lot, or learn to accept it - but instead they chose hatred and embraced unrelated ideas of bigotry and politics that were gifted to their credulity by the evil and banal forces manipulating them.

Even the most chisel jawed charismatic Chad on the planet has some empathy for loneliness or romantic frustration. But you're not entitled to it. You earn sympathy by doing better with what the world gave you- not channeling it into making everything worse.


I don't have a good alternative to offer those people but I do get to remind them that there's nothing involuntary about signing up for a forum and expending energy and treasure making the world worse for you and everyone in it.

The dopamine hit of Peer cred and upvoted rage is a helluva drug.

the other trope they throw out in some last ditch plea for sympathy is that the 21st century dating scene makes it harder than ever for people who are or consider themselves undesirable. The fact is that the opposite is true. Of course people swipe past you to date Chad online.

what do you think they did at the beach in the 80s? You think they ignored your lonely ancestor because of selfie angles? Your lonely beach ancestor didn't actually GO to the beach. You have vastly- exponentially more tools to find a companion now than have ever existed and at least online nobody's kicking San in your face. You're not standing alone at a bar in a loud club hoping vainly some girl will take pity on you. What's more, in 2020 you can tailor your persona and surgically identify people with the same interests and same surface level physical qualifications or lack thereof as you.

Yes it still might fail and you're still alone. That's better for you and the world than the path this guy followed.



I don't have a good alternative to offer those people but I do get to remind them that there's nothing involuntary about signing up for a forum and expending energy and treasure making the world worse for you and everyone in it.

The dopamine hit of Peer cred and upvoted rage is a helluva drug.

the other trope they throw out in some last ditch plea for sympathy is that the 21st century dating scene makes it harder than ever for people who are or consider themselves undesirable. The fact is that the opposite is true. Of course people swipe past you to date Chad online.

what do you think they did at the beach in the 80s? You think they ignored your lonely ancestor because of selfie angles? Your lonely beach ancestor didn't actually GO to the beach. You have vastly- exponentially more tools to find a companion now than have ever existed and at least online nobody's kicking San in your face. You're not standing alone at a bar in a loud club hoping vainly some girl will take pity on you. What's more, in 2020 you can tailor your persona and surgically identify people with the same interests and same surface level physical qualifications or lack thereof as you.

Yes it still might fail and you're still alone. That's better for you and the world than the path this guy followed.


* I'm not giving up on anyone on the fringe of going down that rabbit hole. I don't have magic answers or a bag of girlfriends— but if you need someone to talk to, pm me and I'll share what experience or advice I can. At least consider an alternative direction.

 

[ItsTheLittleThings]

And then you wipe that one out too

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I was more wondering about addressing the social issue during the early stages (high school/college/university), although I don't know how we'd go about it.

 

[capitalCORN]

Okay now I'm curious what you said?

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I fumbled the phone, wtf.

 

[TheMango55]

Understanding how radicalization happens and attempting to reach people who are vulnerable to it is not the same as sympathizing with murderers.

This goes for radicalized Islamic terrror, right wing fascist terror, incel terror, etc.

 

[Vilix]

I feel sorry for the women they victimize. I have no sympathy for these dumbasses.

 

[CaptainBojangles]

hm... I guess that's a start. On the other hand, people can still be driven to start it up again somewhere else on the internet.

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That's true, but if you're consistent in taking down new sites that wouldn't be an issue.

I'd be more worried about them reaching younger people through voice communications like Discords or in-game channels, as those will probably be harder to take down.

Not everyone who's sad is going to sit there and listen to their message because it's clear to most on first glance that it's ridiculous, but young people and kids are very impressionable, and a small section of the loneliest people are going to latch on to something like that. It was already bad enough as is, but when people start killing, you need to shut that shit down

 

[Crossing Eden]

Understanding how radicalization happens and attempting to reach people who are vulnerable to it is not the same as sympathizing with murderers.

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Again, it's different with incels. We legit had writers talking about "solutions" to their not getting laid "problem" immediately after one murdered a bunch of people.