anime thread said:
I expect anime watchers to have a far better overall reaction to the ending, but it's still somewhat amusing to see comments like this.
I expect anime watchers to have a far better overall reaction to the ending, but it's still somewhat amusing to see comments like this.
Just popping in. I keep hearing the ending is bad. When? Where? Literally the very last moment? It seems pretty damn good to me still, and I know we're past when manga readers said it started getting bad. Is animation + music really making it that much better or are Mappa making adjustments?
Yes, pretty much the very last moment.
Mappa is making some small adjustments but I don't see how they can salvage the entire theme of the ending. But the changes to Hange and adding Eren's grandparents is great so far.
To be honest, manga readers, outside of here, were pretty pro-Eren, pro-genocide, so they became jaded when the alliance against Eren formed and Eren was put in the villian / anti-villain spot. Titanfolk became a cesspool of negativity, of nitpicking, and forced memes, like the "cringevengers".
In here, things were pretty positive right until the final chapter/final two chapters.
Now, this episode just elevated the manga, it was so damn good.
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Someone link me the meme Reddit for attack on Titan, I lost it.
Curious to see what theories people come up with for an AoE lol.
I loved the episode. The ending will definitely be better received with the anime.
Curious to see what theories people come up with for an AoE lol.
I loved the episode. The ending will definitely be better received with the anime.
Very very last moment. Some manga readers were critical of the general set up and pacing of the last dozen or so chapters that these last few episodes have covered, I guess, but it's mostly fine, like the other "lesser" parts of the series that received the same criticism imo.
The only other reason I can think of someone saying it started getting bad as a whole is with the benefit of hindsight on what was going on. I was on board up until the very end, as someone who disliked it.
Also yeah manga readers had a completely different culture afflicting their discourse, which anime viewers have been free of for the most part, thankfully
I remember a lot of manga readers were pro "evil eren" or jaegerists so they started to dislike the ending once Eren started to lose in chapter 137. You know that no matter what happened they wouldn't have accepted any ending where he loses and they were going to look at any detail to focus on it.
Also the usual manga leaked was one as well so he deliberately gave wrong information or impressions about the leaks so people already had the negative impressions. Even when the ending came and it wasn't like what he claimed, the damage has been done. Reminds me a lot of what happened with The Last of Us part 2 leaks. There were a lot of false information so even when it turned out not to be true, the damage has been done. You'll see online people saying The Last of Us part 2 and Attack on Titan ending but when you read their excuses, you realize some of them didn't even watch it and just repeating what other people said. I saw someone saying the ending was bad cus even after Eren death, titans are still roaming the earth which is totally false and some of them told me that they didn't actually read the manga but they are saying their opinion about the manga ending based on a summary a friend said! That's why I also think anime viewers will have more positive views or at least less negative views about the ending.
Also the usual manga leaked was one as well so he deliberately gave wrong information or impressions about the leaks so people already had the negative impressions. Even when the ending came and it wasn't like what he claimed, the damage has been done. Reminds me a lot of what happened with The Last of Us part 2 leaks. There were a lot of false information so even when it turned out not to be true, the damage has been done. You'll see online people saying The Last of Us part 2 and Attack on Titan ending but when you read their excuses, you realize some of them didn't even watch it and just repeating what other people said. I saw someone saying the ending was bad cus even after Eren death, titans are still roaming the earth which is totally false and some of them told me that they didn't actually read the manga but they are saying their opinion about the manga ending based on a summary a friend said! That's why I also think anime viewers will have more positive views or at least less negative views about the ending.
The ending isn't really THAT bad. It's just mediocre, clumsy and disappointing after the quality of the rest of the series. Us, manga readers, also had our expectations built up high due to the monthly chapters format.
Releasing the specials as two separate parts might actually have been a brilliant strategy, considering how much anime audiences need to remind themselves of previous context when trying to keep up with all the plot threads.
If they had released it as a full movie, in comparison, we would have had the Ramzi and rumbling scenes cold-open the movie, and the apology/Lelouch characterization ending off the movie. It would have been the ultimate tonal dissonance that could have been possible in a two hour span. Split them up, though, and suddenly the entire final battle can actually stand on it's own two feet under the pretense of "why is this happening" again, with "an" answer at the end, possibly even including the thank you verbatim. It can rewrite it's narrative if it's self contained, the spectacle will take precedence to the consistency, character outcomes etc etc.
Also having been reminded of the kiss scene, now I will be forever disappointed that entire frame won't be the final scene of an episode, ugh lol. I know manga readers love the last chapter memes but as a anime only who could not have been more detached from that drama, that panel took me out for days, I had to DM friends who disliked AoT just to share in the bewilderment and amazement somehow. It was perfection.
If they had released it as a full movie, in comparison, we would have had the Ramzi and rumbling scenes cold-open the movie, and the apology/Lelouch characterization ending off the movie. It would have been the ultimate tonal dissonance that could have been possible in a two hour span. Split them up, though, and suddenly the entire final battle can actually stand on it's own two feet under the pretense of "why is this happening" again, with "an" answer at the end, possibly even including the thank you verbatim. It can rewrite it's narrative if it's self contained, the spectacle will take precedence to the consistency, character outcomes etc etc.
Also having been reminded of the kiss scene, now I will be forever disappointed that entire frame won't be the final scene of an episode, ugh lol. I know manga readers love the last chapter memes but as a anime only who could not have been more detached from that drama, that panel took me out for days, I had to DM friends who disliked AoT just to share in the bewilderment and amazement somehow. It was perfection.
Nah, like with Game of Thrones most people were still hopeful until the end. Nobody was writing the whole series off as crap despite some kinda crappy elements (see: Annie's 'jokingly eating pie' scene despite being a sadistic murderer, Hanji's original death being fairly useless). Only when the ending came out did people start actively disliking things and changing their opinion on the series as a whole.
This is me too. I don't have many strong feelings about the ending, certainly not series ruining
I read the manga immediately after Final Season Part 1 concluded, and have still kept up with the anime since then and it's hit harder than the manga, so here's hoping the ending improves too though
Yeah I was anime only up until the end of final season part 2, I heard so many bad things that I started reading the end with very low expectation... and it wasn't that bad. It wasn't great either it didn't retroactively ruined the anime for me. I was mostly fine with it even with it was a disappointing way of ending such an incredible.
I feel like the ending reception is going to be much better with the anime.
At the very least, this time around, I'm not hearing all kinds of weird theories or arguments regarding the father of Historia's child. Or Eren being safe and sound on Paradis. Or Historia's kid inheriting some Titan power "all according to keikaku".
Honestly this "the ending reception is totally going to be much better with the anime," talk just feels like another lazy-ass way to dismiss anyone who dislikes the ending. Basically appealing to popularity by pre-emptively claiming that the ending is going to be loved and, in turn, those who don't love it are wrong and stupid.
Same goes for all the focus on a minority of people's theories and whatever, instead of any actual engagement with the thematic issues people had with the ending as a whole. It's honestly tiring at this point.
Same goes for all the focus on a minority of people's theories and whatever, instead of any actual engagement with the thematic issues people had with the ending as a whole. It's honestly tiring at this point.
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Lmao theories ran so wild and ridiculous that everyone's expectations would have never been met by the time the last chapter released
The essential thing to improve the ending is to adjust the Eren-Armin convo. Then, remove Reiner sniffing the letter, show how/why the worm disappears, show something like Mikasa leaving with Oyankopon in a plane, and the ending may be passable.
C'mon, let Reiner be a dork!
Not sure what the problem is, there.
"ErEn ThaNK yOU FOR gENOCIDE THe WORLD FoR US"
"I Don't i JusT WANT mIKASA tO REmember me!"
"ThIS iS HisTorIA's leTter.LeT me SMell It."
How to ruin all decades of series' character's development in the last few sentences.
"I Don't i JusT WANT mIKASA tO REmember me!"
"ThIS iS HisTorIA's leTter.LeT me SMell It."
How to ruin all decades of series' character's development in the last few sentences.
You can't deny that those things were Chekovs guns for YEARS without payoff. Historia's kid, the Warhammer ability, and the curse transferring to a newborn. In context of "he's gotta pay these off at some point...right?" they make perfect sense.
... Whuh? Watch me!
Historia's pregnancy was a pretty big plot point (that's what prevented the military from giving her the Beast Titan, and allowed Eren and Zeke to fuck everything up).
Eren used the War Hammer ability a bunch of times.
Titan powers being transferred to a random newborn when the holder isn't eaten was clearly meant to convey the idea that you can't easily get rid of the Titans (hence Zeke's extreme solution). I can't believe some people actually wanted/expected to see that happen. I mean, it's random!
Do what? I simply disagree that those were Chekhov's guns.
(... Or were you joking when you said they were? Sorry if I misunderstood you.)
Historia's pregnancy was never a chekhov's gun. Manga readers who read chapter by chapter just believed it was. It was a thematic bow on her want to live a free life for herself and being forced to make the opposite choices, incredibly obvious, but the fandom just had to be a fandom and miss the forest for the trees, desperate to see their headcanons, and shipping of all things, become validated.
Eh, the way it was shown it was pretty suspicious tho, particularly in chapter 130.
Pretty much all the answers to the questions about Historia's pregnancy were given in the very next chapter after it was revealed she was pregnant, with the only thing that came later being the confirmation that she indeed did it to cooperate with Eren's plan (for some reason). There was never supposed to be a big mystery about the father. The actual mystery that never really gets a satisfying answer is why she did it in the first place.
Yes, IMO this is the Checkov's gun, not the identity of the father. Historia just throwing this out there as an option, with a sad look on her face, presented with a huge air of mystery, is the Chekov's gun.
This.
This never-ending back and forth (not between you and me personally, just between people in the world. I'm so tired...
Actually, maybe I'm Eren. When I learned so many plot points were so sloppily resolved...I...was so disappointed.
The handling of the direction might be sloppy then, but it's not an unresolved mystery, especially since the writing direction for the new ending and themes had already been implemented by that point. It can't be an abandoned concept if it was introduced after the chapters that started implementing the love direction, alongside that exact same chapter reinforcing said direction when stating that Mikasa's love was true.
Eren specifically wanted Historia to live as free of a life as possible. That would include him wanting to fight against the idea of turning her into a titan for the sake of protection, but also forcing her to have children to continue the titan lineage. The "you'll have to be eaten" is definitely the worst detail about it all, but "forcing you to have children" was another angle that he didn't appreciate.
He came to her with the options of fighting the military or running from the plan, but she suggested a compromise. A compromise that bought them time, that did mean she was forfeiting part of her free will for what is necessary in some form. But not without some of it being on her own terms. When people get mad at this storyline not having an "answer" in the form of Eren having hot steaming sex with her and "giving" her a baby, they're thinking about those terms, in terms of what Eren would "want", from a selfish standpoint of how he would be okay with it if it was with him for some reason, or feeling like it's placement in his scheming flashbacks demanded something with a greater purpose, rather than his much more prominent disposition towards the choices Historia was about to make for the greater good against her own freedom of choice. Her choosing an insignificant farmer to have a child with, even with as hollow as it is presented as, is still the form of compromise that she made for herself. The "What if I had a child" with a sad face indicates that she doesn't want to do it still, and that Eren would have a problem with it, but that's exactly why she's suggesting it that way.
The reason is that Historia decided that she wasn't going to stop fighting back for her own freedom, and go along with Eren's plan in spite of her distaste of the solution, but that without that compromise and sacrifice, the situation would just get worse. And just like the plan to turn her into a titan, her having to make those choices drove him further onwards to the overarching goal. It was there to reinforce the story and it's themes.
Don't forget everybody becoming Fascists and changing nothing!
Might be reading too much between the lines, but this makes me feel like my post was a time bomb I unintentionally set off lol. Compared to others I do not advocate the series end with any romantic ultimatum whatsoever, and am still firmly outside of the shipping camp. My preferred ending would have left Historia's story fully intact as-is, as the reasoning and theming behind it, as unclear as it is I suppose, still is vastly preferable to having nothing. I'm just rationalizing where the changes to this series' ending and lost through lines begin and end; they were already building up to with the question scenes in the Marley flashback, so it just seems like a foregone conclusion, in spite of its merit.
There's a reason why Eren's final characterization being so obsessed over Mikasa rings so hollow, and it's not good writing, that's for sure
Lol, I originally had a big long post typed out in response, but I find that the more I type, the more I hate myself. So I deleted it all, hahah.
But, for what it's worth, I am pretty much in complete agreement with you. The series was never about romance, so to drop in ANY love themes (doesn't matter who it's between) at the zero hour is something I will never like.
We can come to the conclusion here in this forum that Historia's decision isn't a mystery, and I accept that conclusion. I just don't think the manga does a good job of helping us come to this conclusion. In general, the manga needed more time to make this ending feel better.
Isayama probably got too attached to the symbolism of finishing on Chapter 139 and probably also wanted to move on.
I really doubt he cared about the number 139, personally.
But seeing how he kept asking for extra pages at the very end (and used them all), I'm thinking he miscalculated the number of episodes he needed to wrap everything up properly, and realized that a bit too late.
Where are
You at?
Where have you been?
You won't answer
Where are we headed?
What did you mean?
You keep getting further away
Even when I chase you
A bird, a butterfly
And my red scarf
Don't make a mess of memories
Just let me heal your scars
The wall, the owl
Forgotten wharf
The time won't stop moving
We're getting older
Second, by second, by second...
Why oh why
Why oh why
Don't you want to stay with me?
Why oh why
Why oh why
Are you giving up on me?
I'll be waiting
Waiting for you
Let me hold you, Under the tree
Under the tree
I'll protect you
Hmm
You at?
Where have you been?
You won't answer
Where are we headed?
What did you mean?
You keep getting further away
Even when I chase you
A bird, a butterfly
And my red scarf
Don't make a mess of memories
Just let me heal your scars
The wall, the owl
Forgotten wharf
The time won't stop moving
We're getting older
Second, by second, by second...
Why oh why
Why oh why
Don't you want to stay with me?
Why oh why
Why oh why
Are you giving up on me?
I'll be waiting
Waiting for you
Let me hold you, Under the tree
Under the tree
I'll protect you
Hmm
With the way some people talk about the series it's almost like they begrudge the idea that their favorite characters could be "cancelled". Seems like the general vibe in online discussion of the series overall, but I was surprised to see some reactors essentially glossing over details for Eren because of the negativity they saw otherwise.
Not sure if it has been posted yet but Uniqlo is gonna do a run of AoT graphic tees. Some cool ones here. I appreciate the use of manga graphics.
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I don't know where this wishful thinking is coming from. It will be identical to the manga.
Since I was perfectly fine with the ending outside of wanting more fleshing out obviously and some other way of phrasing things, I have no problem if it is just 1:1 basically.